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2021 NBA Playoffs


Machinator

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Thanks for nothing Dallas. The one time I root for them...

Dallas has an interesting off season ahead of them. That team is as one - player centric as any I've seen in years. It's obviously at least partially out of necessity because the supporting cast is so meh, but Isiah Thomas brought up an interesting point on NBA TV when he questioned if you can win a title playing like that. Like the James Harden Rockets. It's an interesting topic but either way, Dallas has got to upgrade around him or find a way to make the parts fit better. Maybe they can bring in Phil Jackson and put Luka in the triangle? 

Utah / Clipper should be great. I'm going to feel just as dirty rooting for the Jazz as I did the mavs. They are a much better and deeper team though. They are going to present LA with a lot more problems on defense running them off the line and funneling everything to Gobert. They are also a lot more diverse offensively. 

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4 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Thanks for nothing Dallas. The one time I root for them...

Dallas has an interesting off season ahead of them. That team is as one - player centric as any I've seen in years. It's obviously at least partially out of necessity because the supporting cast is so meh, but Isiah Thomas brought up an interesting point on NBA TV when he questioned if you can win a title playing like that. Like the James Harden Rockets. It's an interesting topic but either way, Dallas has got to upgrade around him or find a way to make the parts fit better. Maybe they can bring in Phil Jackson and put Luka in the triangle? 

Utah / Clipper should be great. I'm going to feel just as dirty rooting for the Jazz as I did the mavs. They are a much better and deeper team though. They are going to present LA with a lot more problems on defense running them off the line and funneling everything to Gobert. They are also a lot more diverse offensively. 

Absolutely agree about Dallas.  Porzingis just looks shot and not worth his contract as he can't seem to stay healthy and his athleticism is already being compromised.  I have a feeling Cubes will pay Hardaway and it has the risk of being a really bad contract, just like Porzingis'.  If that happens, then Luka is basically a better Dame.  Trapped in a game whereby he's so good, they'll be playoff bound, but not enough around him to be real contenders.  They're in a really tenuous spot and really need to another superstar badly because I don't think anyone can count on the Unicorn anymore.  He has to be a 3rd and really 4th guy.  Talent to be a 3rd, but maybe 4th because he's so unreliable with health.

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1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

To no one's surprise.....

 

What was the full report?

Nets will be up 2-0 either way. I haven't placed a bet in awhile but I will be taking Nets ML game 2. Series will get interesting if Harden misses games 3 and 4. Although I'm not entirely convinced they might not end up being better without Harden. 

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13 hours ago, ztejas said:

What was the full report?

Nets will be up 2-0 either way. I haven't placed a bet in awhile but I will be taking Nets ML game 2. Series will get interesting if Harden misses games 3 and 4. Although I'm not entirely convinced they might not end up being better without Harden. 

He was the ultimate luxury for them.    They did not need him.   Would have been much better served keep Jarrett Allen IMO.   He addresses their biggest shortcoming.   Rebounding and interior defense.     They still can outscore just about anyone so it may not be an issue.

 

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2 hours ago, d2o said:

Would have been much better served keep Jarrett Allen IMO.   

 

no way. not even close. i don't know if you guys remember what the Nets played like when Harden arrived, but he might have won the MVP this year had he not gotten hurt. Kyrie is an absolute head case who only cares about basketball sometimes, so adding Harden was pretty damned important. anyone who watched them when he got there could see that he's the straw that stirs the drink. there's zero chance that BK is better without Harden, and double zero chance that they'd have been better keeping Allen over Harden. 

offense wins championships. it's sexy to say that defense wins titles, but it doesn't; offense does. Jarrett Allen adds almost nothing offensively aside from his offensive rebounds. i'll take Harden and his 22 points and 15 assists over Jarrett Allen's contributions all day.

Edited by shadow_operative
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1 minute ago, shadow_operative said:

 no way. i don't know if you guys remember what the Nets played like when Harden arrived, but he might have won the MVP this year had he not gotten hurt. Kyrie is an absolute head case who only cares about basketball sometimes, so adding Harden was pretty damned important. anyone who watched them when he got there could see that he's the straw that stirs the drink. there's rep chance that BK is better without Harden, and double zero chance that they'd have been better keeping Allen over Harden. 

Yeah but a lot of that was with KD sidelined. 

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Yeah but a lot of that was with KD sidelined. 

no doubt, and that's part of why the team needs Harden > Allen. KD- in his 30's, recent history of non-contact soft tissue injuries. Kyrie- total headcase who can't be bothered to focus on basketball when there's an uprising in Darfur. you lose either one of those guys and you have zero shot at winning the title if you have Allen instead of Harden.

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1 minute ago, shadow_operative said:

you lose either one of those guys and you have zero shot at winning the title if you have Allen instead of Harden.

Great point. I agree. It just happened to be Harden that they lost. Hindsight is 20/20. If it was Durant out right now we wouldn't be having this convo (although I think they'd be in more trouble sans KD).

They took out an insurance policy and just got a fat check from it. Which is pretty brilliant GMing. It's why the Lakers can't rely on LeBron and AD anymore. 

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7 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

offense wins championships. it's sexy to say that defense wins titles, but it doesn't; offense does.

History doesn't bear this out. History has shown that you need both but, of the two, having a Top 10 defense has been pretty much mandatory. Though, as discussed earlier, this team is easily talented enough to break the mold.

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23 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

History doesn't bear this out. History has shown that you need both but, of the two, having a Top 10 defense has been pretty much mandatory. Though, as discussed earlier, this team is easily talented enough to break the mold.

i think both can be true. as you said, history shows you need both, and statistically, on paper, once you get the elite teams together it's the teams with the best defenses that often win. games are close, more competitive, and lower scoring. however, and this is specifically what i mean when i say that offense wins titles, when it actually comes down to it, it's about who can make that last shot when the games are so close and the competition level is so high. sometimes it does come down to a defensive play- we remember LeBron's chase down block vs GS, or Pippen's title-clinching steal in '97, but more often than not it's a guy/team scoring to win the game, rather than defending to win it.

 

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3 hours ago, d2o said:

He was the ultimate luxury for them.    They did not need him.   Would have been much better served keep Jarrett Allen IMO.   He addresses their biggest shortcoming.   Rebounding and interior defense.     They still can outscore just about anyone so it may not be an issue.

 

Disagree whole heartedly.  Yes, Allen's a nice player but Harden's an all-timer in his prime.  Would it be nice to have Allen?  Sure, it would but a healthy Harden is way more valuable to any team..... and I hate Harden's game except when he's in PG mode.  You can get Allen type contributions from less pricey guys and Claxton is playing decent.  Their mistake was probably Jordan.  Maybe could done better with a stretch 4 who could rebound a little but the Nets are sort of a work in progress.  They should be much better next year.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

Total whiff.

Utah in 5.

I don't know about this. LAC has the talent to win it all. They showed mental toughness this series in coming back from 0-2 going back to Dallas and then going down 2-3 coming back to Dallas and won 2 straight, the close out game being a blowout. Utah is much more rested but it's not like LAC had some physical series that was taxing. We will see how mentally tough they are this series against Utah. They had Denver easily beat last year but melted down in each close out game. If they can fix that, they definitely have the talent to beat Utah or any remaining West team. Especially if their role players are going to show up like they did in the Dallas series. If they can't get through the West this season, not sure when they will.

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2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Just like the Clippers in 2015.

Well that team was never going to beat the Warriors in the WCF that season.I think they had a better shot the previous year but they blew game 5 to OKC and lost the series. But I doubt they beat the Spurs in the WCF, either. Kawhi is the best player left in the West for my money. That at least gives you a shot. 

 

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1 minute ago, Vic Mackey said:

Well that team was never going to beat the Warriors in the WCF that season.

Lol why? They were just as good and would have matched up well. I think that was ANOTHER year where CP wasn't 100% though. 

And there is 0% chance they beat the Spurs in 2014. Thinking the 2015 Warriors were harder to beat than the 2014 Spurs is absurd. 

Edited by ztejas
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I don't know about this. LAC has the talent to win it all. They showed mental toughness this series in coming back from 0-2 going back to Dallas and then going down 2-3 coming back to Dallas and won 2 straight, the close out game being a blowout. Utah is much more rested but it's not like LAC had some physical series that was taxing. We will see how mentally tough they are this series against Utah. They had Denver easily beat last year but melted down in each close out game. If they can fix that, they definitely have the talent to beat Utah or any remaining West team. Especially if their role players are going to show up like they did in the Dallas series. If they can't get through the West this season, not sure when they will.
I listened to Isola and Scalabrini this morning and they commented on how LA is built to play man to man defense. And in order to beat Utah you need more team D because they move the ball well.

Plus on D, Utah has a rim protector. Is Serge going to play?
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3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Lol why? They were just as good and would have matched up well. I think that was ANOTHER year where CP wasn't 100% though. 

And there is 0% chance they beat the Spurs in 2014. Thinking the 2015 Warriors were harder to beat than the 2014 Spurs is absurd. 

This is some ridiculous revisionist history. The Warriors took the Clippers to 7 in 2014 with their second best player (who was David Lee at the time) hobbled and WITH Mark Jackson. The Warriors won 17 of the next 20 games against LAC starting in the '14-'15 season. Kerr straight up owned Doc, and they never had any answers for Steph in their ball movement offense or Draymond's emergence.

Sure, the Clippers couldn't overcome Josh Smith and Corey Brewer, but they were going to beat that Warriors team. I know it's your goal to degrade the pre-KD Warriors teams to give KD as much credit as possible for their success, but come on.

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8 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Sure, the Clippers couldn't overcome Josh Smith and Corey Brewer, but they were going to beat that Warriors team.

Paul missed 2 games in that series, Einstein. Hence why I said CP wasn't 100% in that playoffs. The 2015 Ws were not some world beating champion. Memphis took 2 off of them and so did the Cavs in the Finals without Kyrie and Love. Healthy LAC was better than both of those teams.

The point is that they had a great opportunity in 2015 but then Paul still couldn't stay healthy. Which is why they lost to the Rockets.

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2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Paul missed 2 games in that series, Einstein. Hence why I said CP wasn't 100% in that playoffs. The 2015 Ws were not some world beating champion. Memphis took 2 off of them and so did the Cavs in the Finals without Kyrie and Love. Healthy LAC was better than both of those teams.

The point is that they had a great opportunity in 2015 but then Paul still couldn't stay healthy. Which is why they lost to the Rockets.

CP3 was healthy in 2014, and they got taken the distance by a much worse version of the Warriors team as a 57 win 3 seed. Again, they would have gotten smoked in 2015, healthy CP3 or not. Tough, physical teams bothered the Kerr Warrior teams, and those aren't words used to describe a Doc Rivers' team.

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2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

CP3 was healthy in 2014, and they got taken the distance by a much worse version of the Warriors team as a 57 win 3 seed. Again, they would have gotten smoked in 2015, healthy CP3 or not. Tough, physical teams bothered the Kerr Warrior teams, and those aren't words used to describe a Doc Rivers' team.

Agree To Disagree Ryan Gosling GIF by The Academy Awards

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30 minutes ago, ztejas said:

The point is that they had a great opportunity in 2015 but then Paul still couldn't stay healthy. Which is why they lost to the Rockets.

Also, this is inaccurate. Paul missed the first two games of the series, and the Clippers went 1-1. With him back they won the next two. He was front and center in them dropping the next three games. (the 2nd of Doc's three career 3-1 collapses). This wasn't another one if CP3's many "what if" years. They just flat out weren't good enough or clutch enough. Again.

Edited by aggie08
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3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Also, this is inaccurate. Paul missed the first two games of the series, and the Clippers went 1-1. With him back they won the next two. He was front and center in them dropping the next three games. (the 2nd of Doc's three career 3-1 collapses). This wasn't another one if CP3's many "what if" years. They just flat out weren't good enough or clutch enough. Again.

They could have easily swept them with a healthy CP3. So yeah, it was kind of important.

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6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

They could have easily swept them with a healthy CP3. So yeah, it was kind of important.

Ah, I see. So they needed to be up 3-0 to not collapse. 3-1 was just too close for comfort. Could have "easily" swept them had CP3 started the series, but couldn't win one elimination game out of 3 with him playing 40+ minutes a game.

Edited by aggie08
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22 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Ah, I see. So they needed to be up 3-0 to not collapse. 3-1 was just too close for comfort.

Teams up 3-0 have never lost a playoff series in NBA history. Teams up 3-1 we've seen lose a bunch of series lately including that one. 

So yeah, there's kind of difference.

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