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Do you FIRE? Financial Independence, Retire Early


UTGrad98

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I do and this way of living fits my personality. I have been a minimalist my entire life. I enjoy saving and finding ways to cut costs where it is feasible. I currently save 50-55% of my gross income per year, much higher % if I use my after tax income to calculate. My wife and I both work full time and will do so for at least the next 4-7 years. I am 46 years old. Our current expenses are around 50k a year. After that we are looking at a few different options. We can move to Mexico where her parents live. We can continue to work full time and pay off the house, then go part time. Or we can just go part time at age 50. I believe the part time retirement plan is called BARISTA FIRE.

I am not worried too much once I hit 65. It's the years from 50-65 where there could be some anxiety. The big expenses if we retire early are house payment/property taxes, govt health insurance and unforeseen significant expenses ( new health issues).

If we pay off the house first (which we are leaning to do), after that our bills and travel budget look to be about 40k a year. This includes property taxes, a 10K travel budget per year, and health insurance. Paying off the house will add another 3 years of full time work, so then Im 53. 40k a year expenses x 12 years (65-53 years old) = around 500k. At 65, my wife and I will (probably) get about 3k a month in SS which will cover most of our expenses and significantly extend our retirement funds. We are calculating 2% inflation and 4% returns both prior to and after retiring.

Once I retire I will learn Spanish and start a gaming company. My brother and I want to write a novel so we have that on our list as well. I am not worried about being bored.

If we decide to move to Mexico, our bills are about 500 dollars a month as we would live at and inherent her parents houses, which means we can move there tomorrow if we want. Anyone else thinking of retiring well before 65? 

I currently use these 2 calculators

https://www.bankrate.com/retirement/calculators/retirement-plan-calculator/

https://engaging-data.com/fire-calculator/

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On 9/25/2021 at 10:54 AM, UTGrad98 said:

I currently save 50-55% of my gross income per year, much higher % if I use my after tax income to calculate. My wife and I both work full time and will do so for at least the next 4-7 years. I am 46 years old. Our current expenses are around 50k a year.

How many kids do you have?

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I'm planning to retire in 2025. Hoping to travel almost full time starting in 2028, using the theory of travel arbitrage.

The insurance issue between 50 to 64 is the biggest question mark for me, especially outside the U.S.

If you are in Mexico, you could apply for a permanent residency visa/card, use their basic universal health insurance and supplement with private insurance (purchased in Mexico). 

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50 minutes ago, zman13 said:

I'm planning to retire in 2025. Hoping to travel almost full time starting in 2028, using the theory of travel arbitrage.

The insurance issue between 50 to 64 is the biggest question mark for me, especially outside the U.S.

If you are in Mexico, you could apply for a permanent residency visa/card, use their basic universal health insurance and supplement with private insurance (purchased in Mexico). 

That is correct and is what our plan is as well. Doctors visits are about 7 to 10 dollars and the supplemental insurance is quite affordable. 

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18 hours ago, Telegraph_it said:

I’m never going to retire. Work is too much fun. 

I probably work 10-15 hours per week, and have since I was about 48 or so. Real estate is fun, I will never fully retire. Mrs. CHIEF can't handle not working 40+ hours a week, and will probably do that till the day she dies. Only thing we owe money on, is her car, and she gets a car allowance from work. Right now it's just managing investments, insurance and taxes.

CHIEF

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FIRE covers a wide range of behaviors and incomes. When talking about FIRE, you may think of a couple walking to work and refusing to eat out for years. That is the extreme end of the movement that gets the press.

FIRE is more about living well within your means whether your salary is 40K or 400K or 4m. Personally most of the FIRE people I know earn well over 200K and live a nice lifestyle. But they still save/invest over 40% of their gross income. They follow the Fat FIRE ideals. Also many of the people in the FIRE movement have never heard of FIRE but it's their natural inclination.

It's also a false narrative that most FIRE people seek early retirement. Take the OP. He says "I'll retire and start a gaming company. Write a novel." Starting a company is not a retirement activity. The real goal of FIRE is financial independence (FI) so you can do what you want when you want. Basically lead a fulfilling life based on whatever that means for you.

OP - given the low interest rates, I wouldn't race to formally pay off your house. Instead save to pay it off but drop those savings into a low-ish risk investment. Basically create a sinking fund for your mortgage. Once that investment is worth the mortgage amount, you've "paid off" the mortgage. Slowly liquidate the investment to make the payments. You will have the option to pay it off as fast or as slow as you want.

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i have never heard of FIRE...but i did retire at 49. 

i started working for the state as a freshman at UT and never left, never had a break in service. i went into IT after graduation and my career trajectory was very satisfactory.

i used to roll my eyes at the people getting their 25, 30 year plaques. then around age 35 i started doing the calculations and realized what i could potentially do...and i set the goal to retire at 50. 

being in IT...every time i'd start feeling unappreciated, frustrated at the antiquity of the systems, competitive market, bureaucracy, etc...i'd remember my goal. i made less (significantly so) than my private sector counterparts and turned down more than a few opportunities to jump ship...but i reached my goal. 

to be fair, my mother passed in 2019 with a surprising amount of savings. the really sad part...she kept putting retirement off and putting it off until she finally did at 70...and she lived less than two years after that :( 

fuck that, it just reinforced my goal. my sister took her half and bought her first home, and i paid off basically everything and reached my goal with ease. 

and now...we are sitting on a pretty nice nest egg in central Austin, we'll sell that in about 6 months and finally, for the first time since i left Houston to come to UT...i'll be moving to another city/state :) Colorado is on the horizon!! i'm very nervous and very excited at the prospect of just moving! 

my husband is currently 'double-dipping' but that's just b/c he does need something to do. i do not have that problem lol. i'm really okay not working. for real lol. every time i talked about it everybody would say 'oh you're gonna need to do something, you'll get so bored! that's too young, you'll want to keep working!' etc. etc....and i would say 'mmmm i dunno, i really don't think so...'

turns out i was right :D i'm pretty damn happy doing whatever i want, whenever i want to do it. the thought of going back to that world...*shudder* not everybody needs a project lol

we have friends that i think are doing more what the OP describes, or at least planning it - they are both still at least 10-12 years from full retirement, but they also plan to just quit, liquidate, and move to Mexico to live on the cheap. they aren't even looking at expat areas...more like interior cities where they can live really cheap. now that would make me nervous! 

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My wife stopped working at 40 and I am 3 weeks away from retiring myself at 45. We both had very good careers in the tech industry but we also started saving and investing early as we got raises we did not spend most of that money instead kept saving with the goal to retire early. 

I have two girls under 10 so I know what my mine focus will be for awhile, but after that who knows? What  I do know is I am three weeks away from having the full independence to do whatever I want to do next. 

For example I am currently using up a little bit of my vacation left and am posting this from the Maldives….things are looking really good from here. 

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I had never heard of FIRE until a few years ago but had basically been managing my career and life in such a way as to achieve a FIRE in my mid-50's.  There are many things I've learned and realized along the way about work, life, focus, needs, emotions, etc. I've realized that every person is different and the "FIRE" plan for every person needs to be customized for them.  And I would add one, big major cautionary note to every person in their 20's and 30's who is on a FIRE plan. Realize that what you think you want when you retire may change dramatically by the time you reach the FIRE point. If that happens, the FIRE plan you executed may not achieve what you want by the time you reach that age.

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3 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

How have some of you calculated what numbers you need in order to retire? I see references to a FIRE # that people have set for themselves but I haven't spent time researching the topic.

Considering “our” spending habits, I’m just assuming that whatever I make now, I need to be making off investments when I retire (plus inflation). So I need to build up enough cash flowing rental properties over the next 20 years… I’m never going to retire. 😕

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23 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

FIRE covers a wide range of behaviors and incomes. When talking about FIRE, you may think of a couple walking to work and refusing to eat out for years. That is the extreme end of the movement that gets the press.

FIRE is more about living well within your means whether your salary is 40K or 400K or 4m. Personally most of the FIRE people I know earn well over 200K and live a nice lifestyle. But they still save/invest over 40% of their gross income. They follow the Fat FIRE ideals. Also many of the people in the FIRE movement have never heard of FIRE but it's their natural inclination.

It's also a false narrative that most FIRE people seek early retirement. Take the OP. He says "I'll retire and start a gaming company. Write a novel." Starting a company is not a retirement activity. The real goal of FIRE is financial independence (FI) so you can do what you want when you want. Basically lead a fulfilling life based on whatever that means for you.

OP - given the low interest rates, I wouldn't race to formally pay off your house. Instead save to pay it off but drop those savings into a low-ish risk investment. Basically create a sinking fund for your mortgage. Once that investment is worth the mortgage amount, you've "paid off" the mortgage. Slowly liquidate the investment to make the payments. You will have the option to pay it off as fast or as slow as you want.

Yeah this makes sense. The only way to build wealth is to save a major chunk of what you make and frankly take some risks.  We save 30-40% of what we make. But I won’t sacrifice doing what I want and having what I want in my 40s to stop working all together in my 50s.  Cutting expenses is sometimes needed and it suuuuuucks.  I’d rather focus on finding more opportunities than focus on dialing back lifestyle. that’s all I was saying. Definitely harder if you’re a highly paid employee, even harder if trying to do this on a state job focused on a 20 years and out pension.

My partner wants to stop working in the weeds now, she’s 51 so we will do that next year. We decided the path was not to stop work all together in 3 years but instead invest in a junior business partner next year and then transition her out over time to just a silent financial partner.  In fact, we spent 2 hours of a 5 hour drive back from the south Texas coast yesterday talking about it.

I want to stop working in the weeds now but I’m 46 and have been migrating toward that for 3 years and need another 2, but when that goal is accomplished I’m still working, just working differently. I love making money and I love growing businesses. I’ll continue to find opportunities and take advantage.  In the meantime, we travel once a month and I play with my kids (instead of working long hours) all the time.

My ideal second career is working from home 10am-2pm Monday through Thursday helping small company founders get rich. I think I could do that for 10-15 years and that takes me to 65. 

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Calculations for FIRE can get pretty complicated, but I'm a big believer in creating your own relatively simple spreadsheet to try and get a true sense of the numbers yourself.

1. Spending - track your actual spending for several years to get a sense of your spending by category. This will give you baseline spending you can estimate after you FIRE. You will be able to create a min, max and base case spending plan per year. Most likely it will vary widely between the min and max. Things are hard to estimate. We all wan that boat, right?

2. Social Security, Pensions - estimate how much you will get for these. Max social security without cost of living adjustments right now is about $36k per year for the main income earner in a family. Add 50% for a non-working spouse. Full benefits start at age 67 for most people. Roughly 60% of that amount would come in if you started at age 62.

3. Yearly burn rate - the difference between #1 and #2 is how much your investments and net worth has to cover per year. There might also be a net increase from year to year once you FIRE because of the difference between spending inflation and #2 cost of living adjustments. In general, the Social Security and Pensions probably won't adjust upward enough to cover spending inflation costs.  You might see a net spending increase from year to year of 1-5%, or more, depending upon your spending patterns. I actually take each spending category and assume an inflation rate for each, with medical expenses rising 5% per year, with other categories less. The inflation assumption is a massive impact on your target number. With low or no spending increase, it's easier to FIRE. with an inflation estimate of 3% or more, the numbers get big fast. Plus, in general spending drops as you get older, so you need to think about that too. Spending in your early 60's might be higher, relatively, than in your late 70's. Thus your actual dollar spending might be the same in your early 60's vs. your late 70's because of the offsetting impacts of inflation vs lower spending.

4. Inheritance/Cushion - you have to make the fundamental decision whether to burn down all of your investment money over your FIRE years, or try to have some left at the end, either as a safety cushion or for your kids to inherit. This is a huge question for most people. What makes it tough is that with slightly different spending and inflation assumptions, there can be an investment target difference of millions of dollars.

5. Total Invesment Target - Once you've done the 4 items above, you'll have a total investment target.  Depending on the assumptions of "most" people, that target should be somewhere between $1.5M to $8M dollars. Tight living at $1.5m, easier living at $8M, with investments spitting out enough income every year to not have to cut into the principle.

Immamac said FIRE is for poor people. I don't share that view considering only a very small percentage of the population has or will have a net worth of several million dollars when they retire.

 

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I think immamac was making fun of my "focus on growing revenue" comment.  But it's true, I'm not taking a brown sack lunch to work ... ever.  As a school aged kid, I ate enough soggy peanut butter and jelly on whole wheat sandwiches in a reused* brown paper bag and reused* ziplock to last a life time. 

 

*though I now commend the reusing part of that equation for sustainability reasons.

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1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

How have some of you calculated what numbers you need in order to retire? I see references to a FIRE # that people have set for themselves but I haven't spent time researching the topic.

a lot.  if it was less I'd retire now. as for how I calculate it, I calculate it on a 7-8% return on investment, 2% for inflation (held back), 5-6% for spending money (this is the cash flow number I'm driving to), no Social Security and no other sources of income.  That said, our social security draw appears to be headed toward a healthy number and we have a line of credit against marketable securities I use to invest in alternative investments - private companies or in real estate.  assuming - on average those alternative investments do better than the interest rate charged, our total returns are more likely to be 15-20% or more factoring in years the market is above 7% and our alt investments pay out. 

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i don't know about official FIRE calculations...

at the state they call it a '3 legged stool' - pension, SSI, and investments. with careful planning and we got those bases covered. 

we do have some future 'inflection' points...

my mate (much older) can take full SS in two years, which we can easily wait for. 

i have 20 years until then but unless catastrophe strikes should also be able to wait for the max.

and i used not to even think about this part, but since my mom died we've discussed it...but my dad is sitting on a mountain of wealth. he's an east Texas country boy at heart, his biggest expense is cattle feed and his beer budget lol. he had a difficult time with money in his 30s/40s after my parents divorced, ended up bankrupt and basically living 'in a van down by the river'...consequently, when he got his feet back under him he became completely obsessed with making and saving money. he has gobs of land all over NE Texas and a working ranch that's fully paid for, along with stocks, and cash that's stashed in banks all over lol. he lives off his RR pension. he's kinda nutty really 😄

anyway, all of that will be split bt my sister and i at some point, so there's that as well. 

finally...my mate is significantly older than me, and we have always made sure substantial life insurance was taken care of.

we have no children together and my mate is rather hardlined about his grown children (who...haven't made the best life choices), so we haven't really had to plan much there. he's got grandkids that will be taken care of for sure. 

life is unpredictable and we will certainly get thrown some unexpected curveballs...but i think we're positioned pretty well, about as well as anybody can be considering we're a couple of state employees 😊 we've been blessed.

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2-4% withdraw rate is a rule of thumb some people are using, 4% for shorter retirement (30 years) and 2% for longer. So if you want $100k/yr you’ll need $2.5-5M depending on how long you want the cash to last. 
 

This is a conservative view, maybe too conservative 

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3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

How have some of you calculated what numbers you need in order to retire? I see references to a FIRE # that people have set for themselves but I haven't spent time researching the topic.

Investment savings of 25 - 30 times annual expenses is a good rule of thumb. And annual expenses will change depending how old you are, e.g., healthcare 
 

there’s a ton of information about this topic on bogleheads which is a Vanguard related site. In addition to a lot more good financial information and advice 

 

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=355389&p=6162905

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The FI part of FIRE is why it's for poor people. You have to live within a set of means to subscribe to FIRE. I'd rather just have so much money it's impossible to spend it all in a reasonable way. Then budgeting doesn't make a fuck. If you can't get to that then fuck retiring early, not worth the hit on lifestyle to me. 

 

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1 hour ago, Archer said:

2-4% withdraw rate is a rule of thumb some people are using, 4% for shorter retirement (30 years) and 2% for longer. So if you want $100k/yr you’ll need $2.5-5M depending on how long you want the cash to last. 
 

This is a conservative view, maybe too conservative 

prevailing number is 3.5-4%

 

2% is probably way too tight

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17 minutes ago, immamac said:

The FI part of FIRE is why it's for poor people. You have to live within a set of means to subscribe to FIRE. I'd rather just have so much money it's impossible to spend it all in a reasonable way. Then budgeting doesn't make a fuck. If you can't get to that then fuck retiring early, not worth the hit on lifestyle to me. 

 

subscribed.

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4 hours ago, immamac said:

The FI part of FIRE is why it's for poor people. You have to live within a set of means to subscribe to FIRE. I'd rather just have so much money it's impossible to spend it all in a reasonable way. Then budgeting doesn't make a fuck. If you can't get to that then fuck retiring early, not worth the hit on lifestyle to me. 

 

Let's make this fun. Define a poor person. What's the annual income or wealth of a poor person?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Let's make this fun. Define a poor person. What's the annual income or wealth of a poor person?

 

 

lacking sufficient money to live at a standard considered comfortable or normal in a society.

vs 

having a great deal of money or assets; wealthy. (Rich)

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My goal for retirement, starting next year, is to buy a property a year on a 15 year mortgage (I'm 43) for the next 15 years.  That way, I should have the first one paid off at 59, the second one paid off at 60, the third at 61 and the final one at 73.  That means, I would venture to say if I didn't sell any of the properties and didn't do anything else with them, that at 73 I should be worth about 4.5 million in paid for real estate (not counting my house), and it would have likely cost me around $600,000.00, spread over 15 years, to reach that figure.  I think I like that plan, boring as it may be, over any other investment plan I can come up with.  Those properties should be throwing off something like $300,000 a year or so by the time I'm there- that sounds pretty nice.  The only problem is, that means, essentially, that I'm working longer than yall plan to be working (probably until I'm 62 or 63- which is when you'd expect to hit cash flow somewhere around 6 figures.

I think that this has a reasonable way of looking at the situation, $40,000 a year shouldn't cost me too much in lifestyle while I'm working- I'm not working until I'm really old, and my retirement is pretty comfortable without having to worry about anything. Also- if you want to increase your burn rate for whatever reason you can just go ahead and sell the underlying paid for asset without any real problems.  

If I do work until I'm 62 or 63 I will probably take the underlying cash flow from the paid off assets and use it to more quickly pay off the properties still carrying a mortgage so I can get to my end game around 66 or 67 instead of waiting.  
 

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The FI part of FIRE is why it's for poor people. You have to live within a set of means to subscribe to FIRE. I'd rather just have so much money it's impossible to spend it all in a reasonable way. Then budgeting doesn't make a fuck. If you can't get to that then fuck retiring early, not worth the hit on lifestyle to me. 
 

This guy gets it. The FIRE people on the Money Moustache forums brag about their lifestyles like riding their bike everywhere is some kind of flex. I hate bike people. If I want something I just buy it, and I want that to continue during retirement.
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1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

how much money is poor? You have a number but don't want to reply.

It's not about a specific number, you are poor if you can't live the lifestyle you want/think is comfortable.  Poor is in the eye of the beholder/person. If you can't do stuff you want cuz you don't have the money, you are poor. If you convince yourself that "you don't need the luxurious thing because it's just a waste of money" you are poor. Rich people don't think luxury expenses are a waste of money, they do it because that's the lifestyle they find comfortable. 

If you are asking me what I think poor is? I think if you make less than ~75k/yr you are pretty fucked in the "living comfortably" department in Austin. I think you are confusing "poverty" with "poor", which are not at all the same thing. 

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FIRE people are the same idiots that think maxing out a conventional 401k because "they will pay less taxes in retirement" is smart. 

Roth 401k if offered is the dopest fucking thing ever and it really doesn't matter what tax bracket you fall in. 10-20-30 years of tax free growth on investment after your pay taxes on the initial? are you fucking kidding me, that's insane. You'll make back your OG taxable part if you just stay in god damned index funds. There is a reason you can't do a Roth IRA if you are rich, because it's the best fucking investment vehicle out there and rich people would /did abuse the fuck out of it. 

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9 minutes ago, immamac said:

FIRE people are the same idiots that think maxing out a conventional 401k because "they will pay less taxes in retirement" is smart. 

Roth 401k if offered is the dopest fucking thing ever and it really doesn't matter what tax bracket you fall in. 10-20-30 years of tax free growth on investment after your pay taxes on the initial? are you fucking kidding me, that's insane. You'll make back your OG taxable part if you just stay in god damned index funds. There is a reason you can't do a Roth IRA if you are rich, because it's the best fucking investment vehicle out there and rich people would /did abuse the fuck out of it. 

You can do backdoor Roths if your income is above the limit. Many people do that as they prepare for retirement.   

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1 hour ago, immamac said:

 

If you are asking me what I think poor is? I think if you make less than ~75k/yr you are pretty fucked in the "living comfortably" department in Austin. I think you are confusing "poverty" with "poor", which are not at all the same thing. 

Shit. 75k household should be considered poverty level in atx for anything more than a single no kids situation. 

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4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Shit. 75k household should be considered poverty level in atx for anything more than a single no kids situation. 

The thing is, if you make less than 40k/50k somewhere in there lots of shit is subsidized by the government.  My brother got by on a teaching salary with his family of 6 (not super comfortably but got by) and they were on food stamps, SNAP, some other shit etc.  He told me that basically he had to get over 75k or so before his life would materially get better, b/c between the teaching salary and 75k his benefits would just sort of start to fade away.  I didn't ever do the calculations b/c I've never been in that scenario but it sounds plausible.

I don't know how you'd live with a family of 4 in Austin on 50k for example.  I mean, it is done, but it can't be easy.

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I think semi-retirement doing something you love that brings in additional income is a good way to feel like your fully retired, but keeps you from being bored. I realized that in COVID shutdown. I love selling and buying real estate, working on old cars, a little bit of welding. I can make money doing the things I love and on my schedule.

I drove a couple to Cross Plains today to look at a little place in the country. Shot the shit the whole way, looked at the place for about 30 minutes, detoured back up through Cisco, and stopped and ate a chicken fried steak at Mary's in Strawn. It was raining today, or I could have put off the appointment to play golf or fish.

Best advice I was given, was get out of the rat race, and move somewhere with a low cost of living. It's put years on my life, no stress, and no obligations.

CHIEF

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1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

I think semi-retirement doing something you love that brings in additional income is a good way to feel like your fully retired, but keeps you from being bored. I realized that in COVID shutdown. I love selling and buying real estate, working on old cars, a little bit of welding. I can make money doing the things I love and on my schedule.

I drove a couple to Cross Plains today to look at a little place in the country. Shot the shit the whole way, looked at the place for about 30 minutes, detoured back up through Cisco, and stopped and ate a chicken fried steak at Mary's in Strawn. It was raining today, or I could have put off the appointment to play golf or fish.

Best advice I was given, was get out of the rat race, and move somewhere with a low cost of living. It's put years on my life, no stress, and no obligations.

CHIEF

The older I get, the better this sounds. 

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3 hours ago, immamac said:

It's not about a specific number, you are poor if you can't live the lifestyle you want/think is comfortable.  Poor is in the eye of the beholder/person. If you can't do stuff you want cuz you don't have the money, you are poor. If you convince yourself that "you don't need the luxurious thing because it's just a waste of money" you are poor. Rich people don't think luxury expenses are a waste of money, they do it because that's the lifestyle they find comfortable. 

 

I kindly disagee with this.  If you're regularly late on bill for the basic stuff.  If you're borrowing money to buy a POS car.  If your kids get their clothes from donation bins, you're poor.  The suburban Karen's who can't trade Tahoe's yearly aren't "poor," no matter how uncomfortable they are driving a 20k mile vehicle.

3 hours ago, immamac said:

Roth 401k if offered is the dopest fucking thing ever and it really doesn't matter what tax bracket you fall in.

I agree 100%.  Pay the tax now because you know what it is.  Get it out of the way. 

If you're up against the yearly 401k limit ($20k now), it's doubly good, as you can pack more usable money in there.

Capital gained in a conventional account is taxed as regular income.  For most of history, capital gains tax has been lower than regular income taxes.  

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1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

49, hair under $1mil piled up and growing, never feel like ill have enough 

don't touch it, don't do anything else and you'll likely be more than ok with SSI, etc. at 65.  find work you like, work some, maybe less, not a lot and find that balance.  truth is for most of us we have to balance between sacrifice and indulgence, being home and exploring, working and playing.  some can do all of one or the other, most can't.  we humans generally are wired for balance.  don't sweat it.

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24 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

49, hair under $1mil piled up and growing, never feels like ill have enough 

Here is the thing, you never know....I don't pile up cash or stock over $100k or so. With a minor in history, I always fear our monetary vehicle could go the way of the Weimar Republic (worst possible scenario). I reach a certain level of cash, and I buy an item that can generate income, or the service it provides can be used to generate income or trade. Saved up $15k, bought a skid loader, save up $6k, split ownership of a 28 ft. gooseneck. $10k, bought a tractor. My next purchase, is an excavator at about $20k. Next, a car lift at $4k, etc...

Luckily I have the acreage/shop to put it on/in. I personally don't trust anything where I don't have full control. Rent houses, land, equipment, greenhouses, items that provide services, food on the table, or a roof over your head are where I invest. This is where the last thing that people with no money will still be willing to use their limited funds.

I'm pessimistic enough to think there will be something come down the pipe in the next 30 years that will wipe out investments, pensions, and the value of cash money.

CHIEF

Edited by CHIEF
pessimism
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