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Realignment talk not going away


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2 hours ago, bullet said:

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/SB-Blogs/Newsletter-Media/2022/10/31.aspx

  • "...ESPN and Amazon Prime remain the front runners to pick up Pac-12 rights, with agreements potentially coming by the end of the year. It’s too early to describe what’s in those packages with any accuracy. But it’s important to note that ESPN’s Big 12 deal does not take it out of the running for Pac-12 rights. And Amazon still wants a package of college football games that can complement its Thursday night package of NFL games....
  • The big question will come down to price. Media companies believe the Big 12 deal set the market. The Pac-12 still is aiming higher. Keep in mind, the Pac-12 will have fewer schools -- 10 instead of 12 -- after USC and UCLA depart for the Big Ten. That’s two fewer mouths to feed. ESPN took pains to make sure that its Big 12 deal would not result in a bigger per-school payout than the ACC. Because of the ACC Network, it’s difficult to determine how much ACC schools make from its ESPN deal. But I was told that the Big 12 will not eclipse the ACC on that front at any point in its deal, which runs through 2030-31. ESPN is likely to approach Pac-12 negotiations in a similar way...."

So ESPN trying to avoid irritating FSU and Clemson by paying UCF more than them.

Describing USC and UCLA as mouths to feed, lol.  That's like the rest of Bon Jovi's band calling Bon Jovi a mouth to feed.

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3 hours ago, Gaffords said:

I totally agree....   Amazon is in for a surprise when their Saturday sports viewership net profits doesn't cover the lawyer fees used to draw it up....   If there was anything of value, ESPN, APPLE, AT&T, FOX, NBC, CBS,  mamma's basement dweller, would put up some resistance without letting it go below value.

I do find it interesting (if reports are right) that they are keeping the Big 12's contract on par with the ACC money. Something tells me they have a plan for a couple of the ACC schools once their contract gets closer to it's end...

The BIG is probably looking closely at the markets West- Oregon_Washington?  

And the SEC is likely looking at North Carolina and maybe the Virginia markets?  Or possibly one of those with an Arizona school as plan B? Then they could push Clemson and FSU (and others like GT, VT)  towards the Big 12 where they would be a better FB fit? Maybe merger?  Then they would have the working pieces and markets to make the now ACCNET into a strong network that would be a lot closer to the money the SECNET generates then it does now.   Granted it would still be short of the BTN and the SCN, but still respectable that would make those schools happy.

Also, they're taking a bath currently on their $1b TNF deal.   Not that it will always continue this way, but it may make them less likely to write big checks to games averaging a fraction of their worst NFL game.

 

NFL Ratings by week.jpg

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17 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Also, they're taking a bath currently on their $1b TNF deal.   Not that it will always continue this way, but it may make them less likely to write big checks to games averaging a fraction of their worst NFL game.

 

NFL Ratings by week.jpg

I almost always have the Thursday night game on in the background as I’m doing stuff. I keep forgetting it’s on Amazon. Last week I “watched” a replay on nfl network for an hour and half before I realized. 

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33 minutes ago, MirrOlure said:

So are you going to summarize this for us, or make us watch/listen to it?  

ESPN is subject to the pro rata clause. FOX maybe not.  With ESPN on the hook for 63% of the deal, new schools would only be worth $20m/yr average to the Big 12.

 

That's the summary, no more info than that in the video.

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1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I love it.  That’s the kind of creativity you would have never seen with Bowlsby.  Zags at Hilton?  Fuck yea.

Not because this in particular would have happened but this just makes it even more irritating that the Big 12 didn't find a competent commissioner before it was too late. 

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5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

If you’re wvu, Cincinnati, or ucf, why in hell would you vote for this 

Why not? Both Gonzaga and all three of those schools fly to all of their conference games right now anyway. An extra couple of hours every other year to have by far the best basketball conference (current anyway) would be worth it.

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2 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Why not? Both Gonzaga and all three of those schools fly to all of their conference games right now anyway. An extra couple of hours every other year to have by far the best basketball conference (current anyway) would be worth it.

For all sports other than football, presumably. I think it’s workable, but it will be a pain for those schools for sure. 

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19 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Once you’re on a plane, what’s the difference?

I’m not sure this telegraphs anything else.

3,000 miles to send your volleyball team from Orlando to Spokane, on a Tuesday, is longer than going from Orlando to Ames and back.    There's a difference.

 

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24 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Fair.

I was assuming this was only for MBB

It still is a lot.   It makes sense to me if two things are in play:

First:  Someone around Spokane to double up non-football scheduling.  Say, maybe, someone who plays in Seattle.   I am not sure its likely, but let's pretend for a second the Big 12 absorbs the bigger names in the Pac; namely Oregon, Washington, Arizona, maybe Stanford.   Basically the ones who play basketball.   Six gets you to 18, Eight gets you to 20.   

Second: Get to 20, 22, or 24 by plucking off the best of the best basketball only brands near big markets; for the hell of it, just to pick some names I'm not arguing over who killed who, let's say those are Creighton, Gonzaga, Xavier, Villanova, and someone like St Johns, Marquette, etc.

Now you split into two divisions of ten to twelve for non-football (*possible tourney team):

  • West: Arizona*, ASU, Baylor*, BYU*, Cal, Colorado, Gonzaga*, Oregon*, TCU*, Texas Tech*, Utah, Washington* etc etc
  • East: Cinci*, Creighton*, Iowa State*, Kansas*, KState, Marquette*, Oklahoma State*, UCF, Villanova*, West Virginia*, Xavier* etc

You play everyone in yours and half of the other for 18 games, mix and match, but you rarely have UCF going to Gonzaga.

With the amount of basketball talent listed above, it could have legs if Fox was interested in blowing out basketball as a way to increase the pie, since they don't have the pro rata.  MBB is less, but it adds up and you could have games on all day.

It makes little sense though if you're not making the travel circle less for everyone by dividing the country into two.   Or flying everyone 2000 miles extra for one school in a corner.   How does that pay for itself?

 

Edited by Hurtlocker
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49 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

Hell, the Big 12 should talk to Creighton and any other WCC and Big East basketball school worth poaching.

I think Creighton would be interesting. I always wanted UConn but for selfish reasons because my wife has family there, and it was also before UConn football became an absolute joke and basketball became mediocre. My only concern with Gonzaga is whether they’re sustainable after Mark Few retires or if they can withstand a scandal. Wichita State, Butler, even powerhouse UConn fell off with a coaching change. Gonzaga’s been good for a long ass time though and being in a bigger conference should make it easier to make a good hire when it comes up.

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2 hours ago, Pancho said:

If you’re wvu, Cincinnati, or ucf, why in hell would you vote for this 

 

Gimein-Why-Digital-Money-Hasnt-Killed-Ca

 

EDIT:  Also, ESPN no longer will broadcast Big 10 games starting in 2024.  Luring Gonzaga to the Big 12 is a coup for the conference, but a coup for ESPN as well (assuming here ESPN will still retain basketball media rights down the road).

ESPN might have a Big Monday now with some Big East game and two Big 12 games (say KU/ISU in Lawrence, and Gonzaga/Baylor late night).  That's...something.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Not because this in particular would have happened but this just makes it even more irritating that the Big 12 didn't find a competent commissioner before it was too late. 

It just makes me wonder how much of that, especially in the first decade of the league, was enough of the schools not even really wanting competent central leadership. I could just see Tom Osborne and DeLoss Dodds (and whoever was running the show at Aggy and OU) valuing a malleable dipshit that they could exploit over someone with a creative central vision.

The remaining 8, not having a better option, have been forced to act in a more mutually beneficial manner, and our survival depended on getting someone worth a shit into that role.

I think this was the kind of thing that had to be forced onto the league to ever come to fruition.

Edited by Al_4_ISU
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If anyone is of the mindset that we ran aggy off a few years ago, then you should really thank us for doing so before we leave.   Do you have any idea how insufferable those cunts would've been once OU/UT left?    The self appointed savior and ruler of the new Big aggy conference.  

.   

 

 

Edited by Gaffords
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6 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It just makes me wonder how much of that, especially in the first decade of the league, was enough of the schools not even really wanting competent central leadership. I could just see Tom Osborne and DeLoss Dodds (and whoever was running the show at Aggy and OU) valuing a malleable dipshit that they could exploit over someone with a creative central vision.

The remaining 8, not having a better option, have been forced to act in a more mutually beneficial manner, and our survival depended on getting someone worth a shit into that role.

I think this was the kind of thing that had to be forced onto the league to ever come to fruition.

Dodds wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he tried to get the conference to work together and the other schools refused. He pitched the first ever conference network and the rest of the conference voted down even investigating it. Texas didn't want conference leadership to suck.

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4 hours ago, Gaffords said:

If anyone is of the mindset that we ran aggy off a few years ago, then you should really thank us for doing so before we leave.   Do you have any idea how insufferable those cunts would've been once OU/UT left?    The self appointed savior and ruler of the new Big aggy conference.  

.   

 

 

Who said you ran Aggy off?  They left to get away from you, but that’s more a testimony to their bitchassedness.

Aggy is a less influential Nebraska.

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28 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Dodds wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he tried to get the conference to work together and the other schools refused. He pitched the first ever conference network and the rest of the conference voted down even investigating it. Texas didn't want conference leadership to suck.

Coming from a school that never had much influence, I can assure you that we desperately wanted better leadership, but weren’t in a position to effectuate it.

Bad leadership put us at risk, whereas the original 4 power brokers have never been at risk.

Short of a better explanation, I’ve always been left to assume that the leadership we had was the leadership the power brokers wanted, because it seemed clear to me that we (only speaking about ISU here) would have gone along with anything that would appease the more valuable schools.

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1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Who said you ran Aggy off?  They left to get away from you, but that’s more a testimony to their bitchassedness.

Aggy is a less influential Nebraska.

Aggy is the only school I've never heard a single Big XII fan regret losing. More like a collective sigh of relief.

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2 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Aggy is the only school I've never heard a single Big XII fan regret losing. More like a collective sigh of relief.

I don't regret losing Missouri, but that's mostly because I never really noticed them when they were here.  No lie, over the past decade when discussing realignment with peers and friends, and naming the initial 4 teams to leave the B12, I can always name Nebraska, Colorado, the ags, and.... and.... hmmm....

 

Edited by utee94
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24 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I don't regret losing Missouri, but that's mostly because I never really noticed them when they were here.  No lie, over the past decade when discussing realignment with peers and friends, and naming the initial 4 teams to leave the B12, I can always name Nebraska, Colorado, the ags, and.... and.... hmmm....

 

That seems to be how they are in the SEC too.

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14 hours ago, 'stache said:

I think Creighton would be interesting. I always wanted UConn but for selfish reasons because my wife has family there, and it was also before UConn football became an absolute joke and basketball became mediocre. My only concern with Gonzaga is whether they’re sustainable after Mark Few retires or if they can withstand a scandal. Wichita State, Butler, even powerhouse UConn fell off with a coaching change. Gonzaga’s been good for a long ass time though and being in a bigger conference should make it easier to make a good hire when it comes up.

Yeah.  I think a couple of "everything but football" adds would be fine as long as they make sense and are likely to have some staying power.  The Zags have so many current and ex-NBA guys now that they're going to have money behind their program for a long time.  Creighton doesn't have that, to the same extent, but they absolutely fit otherwise.  They draw 17K to home games in Omaha.  The can recruit against the Big 12.  They'd be additive to the Big 12 tourney environment in KC.  

Strengthening basketball, and limiting the PAC's ability to do the same for itself, can't hurt with efforts to pull away Arizona.  If Zona moves, one of the other Four Corners likely follows. 

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1 hour ago, utee94 said:

I don't regret losing Missouri, but that's mostly because I never really noticed them when they were here.  No lie, over the past decade when discussing realignment with peers and friends, and naming the initial 4 teams to leave the B12, I can always name Nebraska, Colorado, the ags, and.... and.... hmmm....

 

I don't like that they moved but they really are weird. They had some good teams in both football and basketball and yet they were always forgettable even during those seasons. They don't belong in the SEC, but hey, TV markets and shit, give them $100M!

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2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't like that they moved but they really are weird. They had some good teams in both football and basketball and yet they were always forgettable even during those seasons. They don't belong in the SEC, but hey, TV markets and shit, give them $100M!

You gotta wonder if the SEC regrets bringing them in?  Financially, they obviously helped when the SEC first started floating the SECN.  But now, with cable subscriber model beginning to wane a bit, and the addition of OU and Texas which completely overshadows them, are they wishing they could take a mulligan?

Same thing goes for Rutgers and Maryland in the B1G.  Many B1G fans I know would love to see both of them gone, and especially Rutgers, but I keep reminding them that part of the reason their BTN checks have been so big, is because they brought in those two schools.  And I don't believe there are any provisions in the B1G bylaws for kicking schools out, so they're stuck with them.

 

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22 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't like that they moved but they really are weird. They had some good teams in both football and basketball and yet they were always forgettable even during those seasons. They don't belong in the SEC, but hey, TV markets and shit, give them $100M!

At the college level, programs are generally made memorable by the HC.  Mizzou has made a lot of forgettable hires.

I still primarily think of Norm Stewart when I think of Mizzou sports and I don't think he had a presence that was big outside of the Big 8 footprint.  Pinkel was there for a long time, but the first half of his run was just getting them out of the ditch.  He really only had them rolling for about 7 years before he had to retire.  He didn't really get to be a long term "face of the program" guy for them.  

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24 minutes ago, utee94 said:

You gotta wonder if the SEC regrets bringing them in?  Financially, they obviously helped when the SEC first started floating the SECN.  But now, with cable subscriber model beginning to wane a bit, and the addition of OU and Texas which completely overshadows them, are they wishing they could take a mulligan?

Same thing goes for Rutgers and Maryland in the B1G.  Many B1G fans I know would love to see both of them gone, and especially Rutgers, but I keep reminding them that part of the reason their BTN checks have been so big, is because they brought in those two schools.  And I don't believe there are any provisions in the B1G bylaws for kicking schools out, so they're stuck with them.

 

There is no way they'd kick out Rutgers and Maryland.   Even if neither ever wins a game, they're worth so much to BTN - roughly $250M a year.   UCLA/USC add around $130m/year.     Missouri isn't in that camp.

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3 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

At the college level, programs are generally made memorable by the HC.  Mizzou has made a lot of forgettable hires.

I still primarily think of Norm Stewart when I think of Mizzou sports and I don't think he had a presence that was big outside of the Big 8 footprint.  Pinkel was there for a long time, but the first half of his run was just getting them out of the ditch.  He really only had them rolling for about 7 years before he had to retire.  He didn't really get to be a long term "face of the program" guy for them.  

There's a lot to this.   A lot of programs are really defined by a long time coach.   A few programs get more than one.    Schools that are always shedding coaches rarely get there.

 

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2 hours ago, LTbear said:

Aggy is the only school I've never heard a single Big XII fan regret losing. More like a collective sigh of relief.

I kind of miss Aggy, but more just in the way of missing out on the yearly comedy of their expectations vs. reality... e.g. the Thujone "Annual Aggy rollercoaster."

I can obviously still observe and be amused from afar, but it's better when it's up close and personal.

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54 minutes ago, utee94 said:

You gotta wonder if the SEC regrets bringing them in?  Financially, they obviously helped when the SEC first started floating the SECN.  But now, with cable subscriber model beginning to wane a bit, and the addition of OU and Texas which completely overshadows them, are they wishing they could take a mulligan?

I mean, I doubt it.

I'd think the rest of SECSECSEC loves Mizzou. They bring in STL and KC carriage fees and they are a "name" (sort of) that's generally always beatable. Everybody wins.

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2 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

I kind of miss Aggy, but more just in the way of missing out on the yearly comedy of their expectations vs. reality... e.g. the Thujone "Annual Aggy rollercoaster."

I can obviously still observe and be amused from afar, but it's better when it's up close and personal.

I miss them from about the time we got better than them. Before that sucked.

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15 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

There is no way they'd kick out Rutgers and Maryland.   Even if neither ever wins a game, they're worth so much to BTN - roughly $250M a year.   UCLA/USC add around $130m/year.     Missouri isn't in that camp.

That's exactly what I'm saying.  They can't kick them out.

But the fans of traditional B1G schools desperately want to.

 

1 minute ago, oSuJeff97 said:

I mean, I doubt it.

I'd think the rest of SECSECSEC loves Mizzou. They bring in STL and KC carriage fees and they are a "name" (sort of) that's generally always beatable. Everybody wins.

Eh, same is true of the ags, and yet tons of SEC fans would love to kick them out.

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