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The Kids (Aren't) Alright - World Happiness Report


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An interesting observation is that everyone pretty roundly agrees that a large factor in what's driving unhappiness is always feeling like you need to have more, or be producing more, or growing - rather than learning to be content.

But have yall ever had a fuckin job before? In what world is it ever acceptable to do "just enough"? Have you ever worked somewhere that didn't constantly push you to produce more and do more with less? When has ANY job been happy with its current size and didn't have indefinite growth as the ultimate goal of the enterprise?

It's pretty deeply engrained from the jump that "just enough" is never acceptable. It's not hard to see how that has bled over into every other part of our society.

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Posted (edited)

For me, Social Media is the largest factor. I use Instagram for work, and I definitely feel better when I take a week off. I'm like, I feel less stressed this week. Why is that? Oh, I haven't looked at Instagram this week. 

But this sums it up much better

 

Edited by Neonmoon
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20 hours ago, YGIFS said:

  Most 'white' people in this country used to speak 2+ languages, now most of them can barely speak English. 

Reminds me of Karl Pilkington filling out a job application in the UK.

 

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So, when it came to the qualifications bit and that, I couldn't fill it in, cos I didn't have any qualifications, it was also asking about your languages, and I put down, English – quite good.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

For me, Social Media is the largest factor. I use Instagram for work, and I definitely feel better when I take a week off. I'm like, I feel less stressed this week. Why is that? Oh, I haven't looked at Instagram this week. 

But this sums it up much better

 

 

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58 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

The authors strike out social media use as "neither a strong nor consistent risk factor of depressive affect" , citing another study of 70,000 high schoolers from 2009-2017 (common co-author in both papers)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7876159/

Good for them.  "Non-political" researchers injecting politics as the reason for spikes in depression and completely rejecting social media as the cause despite the time frame used directly overlaps with the advent of social media.  lol.  

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47 minutes ago, Captainant said:

But have yall ever had a fuckin job before? In what world is it ever acceptable to do "just enough"? Have you ever worked somewhere that didn't constantly push you to produce more and do more with less? When has ANY job been happy with its current size and didn't have indefinite growth as the ultimate goal of the enterprise?

Good God man.

Striving to do better is how we advance as a species. It's how you achieve personal growth. 

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I agree with much of what's posted so far--especially the impact of social media on our youth.  There's also the issue of news reporting in general which finds its way into social media.  The book Factfulness, by the late Hans Rosling (a retired MD from Sweden and a social democrat) and his son and daughter-in-law gives a good explanation of how news is reported and how people get a grossly incorrect understanding of the human condition on very important issues, such as world health, women's education, the levels of poverty around the world, etc.  

In addition, having co-raised two daughters, now almost 33 and 30, and seeing how they and their friends navigated high school and the somewhat early days of social media, I observed that their generation and those younger lived in a world of superlatives.  "Awesome" was used in every sentence.  If some high level of achievement wasn't reached it seemed like the endeavor was a failure.  Everything--vacations, college admissions, first job, etc. had to be the best or it was a disappointment.  Sadly, many of my girls' peers were disappointed a lot.  And getting back to social media, people report on the highlights of their lives so the disappointment hits home.  

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17 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Good for them.  "Non-political" researchers injecting politics as the reason for spikes in depression and completely rejecting social media as the cause despite the time frame used directly overlaps with the advent of social media.  lol.  

They didnt inject politics into it. They found that politics was a predictor of the change in health responses and differentiator between different classes. You could also look at that groups prior body of work to see if the nature and conclusions of their studies were politically prejudiced. And it helps to read the other paper that decomposed the correlation to social media use (which trended the same rate well before 2012)

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1 hour ago, Captainant said:

An interesting observation is that everyone pretty roundly agrees that a large factor in what's driving unhappiness is always feeling like you need to have more, or be producing more, or growing - rather than learning to be content.

But have yall ever had a fuckin job before? In what world is it ever acceptable to do "just enough"? Have you ever worked somewhere that didn't constantly push you to produce more and do more with less? When has ANY job been happy with its current size and didn't have indefinite growth as the ultimate goal of the enterprise?

It's pretty deeply engrained from the jump that "just enough" is never acceptable. It's not hard to see how that has bled over into every other part of our society.

Wasn't there a whole movement called "Quiet Quitting" that was all the rage the last year or two which was basically people saying "I'm just going to do just enough"?

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Posted (edited)

A reminder that it's not just the young pussy snowflake kids who are sinking into unhappiness....adult white males are increasingly suicidally depressed:

mm7108a7-F.gif?_=22910

But, you know, we should probably continue to dismiss these trends, and just tell people not to be pussies, and pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and everything is better than okay, you're just pussies.  That seems productive.

As for my observations, the kids are figuring shit out.  They are learning - maybe the hard way - that "more" is not the path to happiness.  In large part, because "more" is increasingly off the table for them.  The rising generations will have less prosperity than their predecessors.  That's how it is, and how it's gonna be.  So, find happiness in what you have, and what you can get.  They're putting it together.  And, increasingly, rejecting the consumption-driven vision of happiness that we relentlessly try to sell them.

This thread reminded me of one of the better monologues in Dances with Wolves:

Quote

Ten Bears: Let us smoke a while.
John Dunbar: With Ten Bears, it was always more than a while. There was purpose in everything he did, and I knew he wanted me to stay. But I was sure of myself. I would be an excuse, and that's all the Army would need to find this place. I pushed him as far as I could to move the camp. But in the end, he only smiled and talked of simple pleasures. He reminded me that at his age, a good fire was better than anything. Ten Bears was an extraordinary man.

 

Edited by Brisketexan
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2 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

Chic Fil A last night for my family of four (me, wife no pics, 8 year old, 5 year old).  $56.  There were 2 nuggets leftover.  Fml.

If I had a family of four, we wouldn't go out to eat. It's just ridiculous. 

As it is now, we're super strategic about it. Gotta know the specials and what we can share.

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The compression and crushing of the middle class from both sides is real, and the resetting of what it means to be a white male in America, going from intrinsic privilege to losing those social benefits and having to work for them.

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adult white males are increasingly suicidally depressed

 

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Just now, Don Johnson said:

This was just 44 years ago

spacer.png

I told this young fellow the other day to work harder and be happier in this modern era.  

"Knock yourself  a pro slick.  Take matter down TCB'in.  You know they say?  See that get back booty-ass.  Lack her down and smack 'em, jack 'em!  Cold got to be, shit."  

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1 hour ago, Captainant said:

It's pretty deeply engrained from the jump that "just enough" is never acceptable. It's not hard to see how that has bled over into every other part of our society.

I absolutely am trying to engrain in my kids that "just enough" is never acceptable.  Be it school, sports, work in the yard, etc.  And I'm talking about effort, not results.  We should all want to be the best version that we can be, without regrets later in life.

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28 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

They didnt inject politics into it. They found that politics was a predictor of the change in health responses and differentiator between different classes. You could also look at that groups prior body of work to see if the nature and conclusions of their studies were politically prejudiced. And it helps to read the other paper that decomposed the correlation to social media use (which trended the same rate well before 2012)

They didn't inject politics into their paper titled 'Diverging trends in internalizing symptoms among US adolescents by political beliefs'.  Gotcha.  

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6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

They didn't inject politics into their paper titled 'Diverging trends in internalizing symptoms among US adolescents by political beliefs'.  Gotcha.  

What politics do they harbor and what did they introduce into the dataset that they studied?

Kirk Herbstreet analyzing a game of football doesnt involve him running onto the field and throwing it. 

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Academics make all sorts of claims even with peer review, so no single finding is the absolute infallible truth. If their method is robust enough, it deserves a better rebuttal than casual dismissal. 

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2 hours ago, Captainant said:

An interesting observation is that everyone pretty roundly agrees that a large factor in what's driving unhappiness is always feeling like you need to have more, or be producing more, or growing - rather than learning to be content.

But have yall ever had a fuckin job before? In what world is it ever acceptable to do "just enough"? Have you ever worked somewhere that didn't constantly push you to produce more and do more with less? When has ANY job been happy with its current size and didn't have indefinite growth as the ultimate goal of the enterprise?

It's pretty deeply engrained from the jump that "just enough" is never acceptable. It's not hard to see how that has bled over into every other part of our society.

office space just play the game GIF

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3 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

I walk a few miles while listening to the Gospel preached every morning.  Best thing I do every day for my state of mind and well being while costing virtually nothing.

Walking makes me antsy. Walking while listening to a preacher would be mental torture. Prowler sprints while blasting Pantera is where it's at. Now that is a calming way to start the day.

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29 minutes ago, Foosters said:

That something about crossing the continental divide makes you want to kill yourself?

Look at the old map.  One flow of water goes this way, one flow of water goes the other way.  And the old man is saying "Hey, what do you want from me besides death?"  

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28 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Man, what can you glean from this map?

That sailing away to Key Largo is not the paradise that Bogie and Bacall made it out to be?

 

With respect to dialogue concerning effort, acquisition, contentment, happiness, personal growth, gender, and species progression--there is IMO, if one choose to see it, room for nuance here.

Many variables here and even with attempts to remove personal biases and experiences, it's not going to be easy because we're talking about a generation(s) that is not us and we aren't living it in the same way. It's not uncommon for those that study "happiness" to discuss the short-lived high that certain activities bring (such as a purchase, etc) but for overall well-being, there is almost always an element of "doing for others" that can elevate our own emotions; that social interaction of caring and nurturing triggers something in our brains that smooths out the worst of our anxieties, fears, and doubts. Too much and we, ourselves, may feel burdened but overall the acts of kindness that became a movement (for awhile anyway) are one of the ways our species was able to progress and develop and grow. Any parent who beamed with pride while watching their child learn to share or behave this way toward others may understand why this is preferable to the stress of watching their child push others to the ground in order to be first in line for the free ice cream cone. One of the nuances here is that one child received and happily consumed an ice cream cone but is now the asshole of the kindergarten class while the child who helped the other to their feet and consoled them for their pain has probably made a connection that is much longer lasting. The rule of kindergarten is always don't be the asshole.

Many many years of individual accomplishments have been written in history, but I still like Admiral (ret) William McRaven's Ten Things to Change the world speech he gave in 2014 and two of those: Success in Life Requires Teamwork (find someone to help you paddle) and It's What's Inside That Counts (measure a person by the size of their heart not the size of their flippers) are good places to start. For all we Americans brag about doing it alone and individualism (not in and of themselves bad things), we have a bad habit of forgetting we were not left on a mountain top alone as a baby. The comments by @956 Worldwide about the younger cohorts and how the adults in the room didn't exactly behave like adults when it came to the pandemic has a harsh truth to it. Even when children have to face hardship, stress, and the reality of a situation--they will always look to others to see what society expects for behaviors and we were atrocious--to each other and in many different ways. And then we rationalized it and blamed everyone but ourselves. Not our finest moment in a nation that has had some shining ones and some horrible ones and some that are more than a little tarnished upon reflection.

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5 hours ago, F250 said:

Uh, this conversation started because of fatty giving us an anecdote about how he shovels 5 burgers down his mouth for $5.

It began with his anecdote about all places having $1 burgers but he later changed the story to "oh that was ten years ago."

Either way, eating five fucking burgers in your vehicle is no way to go through life.

Yeah, time flies and I realized that was some years ago since I was running the roads solo. 
 

5 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Also wages have not gone up by 300% in 10 years - numbers can be tricky and deceptive

I could have also said “a few hundred thousand less” if that works for you. Surprise, people make considerably more a decade into their careers.  

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2 hours ago, Captainant said:

An interesting observation is that everyone pretty roundly agrees that a large factor in what's driving unhappiness is always feeling like you need to have more, or be producing more, or growing - rather than learning to be content.

But have yall ever had a fuckin job before? In what world is it ever acceptable to do "just enough"? Have you ever worked somewhere that didn't constantly push you to produce more and do more with less? When has ANY job been happy with its current size and didn't have indefinite growth as the ultimate goal of the enterprise?

It's pretty deeply engrained from the jump that "just enough" is never acceptable. It's not hard to see how that has bled over into every other part of our society.

government jobs.  

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, 52-80 said:

dont know who you're addressing who claimed that, but wages have gone up faster than cost of groceries, and faster than total cost of living.  the only thing that matched it is the cost of eating out.

total expenditure on food for a family has never been lower.

image.thumb.png.340e34a0ca8d2f49769004869e07d78a.png

I'd be interested in seeing the data on that. I'm sure you could slice it in a way to draw that conclusion but I doubt doing so would reflect an understanding of the data. For example, you could point to quickly rising wages at the bottom of the job market, but you would have to ignore the stagnation of those wages for the previous twenty years, and then use that to try and tell middle class people that they're spending less than ever on food? I don't believe it. Of course this is again sidestepping the core issues facing young people when it comes to getting an education and laying a foundation in their adult lives.

 

*edit* - it is possible that I entirely misread your response to fatty. i read that as you suggesting that people are simple for *feeling* like things have gotten expensive when, as fatty seemingly suggests, relative to wage growth they have not

Edited by Celery Man
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11 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I could have also said “a few hundred thousand less” if that works for you. Surprise, people make considerably more a decade into their careers.  

are you under the impression that the cost of a burger relative to how much money you make personally over time is the conversation that we're having?

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4 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

are you under the impression that the cost of a burger relative to how much money you make personally over time is the conversation that we're having?

In college, I scraped change together to eat at Gatti's but now I can afford to buy a Mr. Gatti's franchise. This is irrelevant information.

Something more relevant would be, I made $7 an hour working as a cashier and twenty five years later my teenage son was making $10 an hour as a cashier. When I was making $7 an hour I could buy a meal on my lunch break for $3.50 but my son was paying $7 for a meal on his lunch break while making $10 an hour.

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37 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Any parent who beamed with pride while watching their child learn to share or behave this way toward others may understand why this is preferable to the stress of watching their child push others to the ground in order to be first in line for the free ice cream cone. One of the nuances here is that one child received and happily consumed an ice cream cone but is now the asshole of the kindergarten class while the child who helped the other to their feet and consoled them for their pain has probably made a connection that is much longer lasting. The rule of kindergarten is always don't be the asshole.

Ummmm.....I don't think you've been paying attention to the dominant social and political strain in our country.

Pushing other people to the ground to get an ice cream cone?  Being an asshole?  That is WINNING.  That's how you WIN.  Don't be a SNOWFLAKE LOSER.  We celebrate -- and I mean "elevate to the level of a god" -- people who embody those ways of being in the world.  In 2024, "Be an asshole who pushes people to the ground so you can get all the ice cream" is The American Ethos.  We might as well fucking engrave it on our coinage: "Fuck you!  I got mine!"

How demoralizing is it to live in a world where the only way of being is to hurt and take?  Pretty fucking demoralizing.

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re: Burger Price War Conversation

I started watching the Disney+ show X-Men '97 and the first episode it scanned a city center (ostensibly in 1997) and there was an advertisement for $.99 burgers. Thought of you, @fattyflattie. No idea how much fidelity the research and writing went into creating an animated alt-universe where mutants have crazy powers, however.

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3 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

re: Burger Price War Conversation

I started watching the Disney+ show X-Men '97 and the first episode it scanned a city center (ostensibly in 1997) and there was an advertisement for $.99 burgers. Thought of you, @fattyflattie. No idea how much fidelity the research and writing went into creating an animated alt-universe where mutants have crazy powers, however.

This country went to hell when we lost Arby's 5 for $5 deal. 

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53 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

government jobs.  

Lol this is the correct answer. Captain should work for a DPS office. Or maybe at a VA hospital. He’ll be surrounded by people putting a lot of effort Into doing the bare minimum. With predictable results. It sounds like the kind of work culture you would thrive in @Captainant

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27 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

image.thumb.png.340e34a0ca8d2f49769004869e07d78a.png

I'd be interested in seeing the data on that. I'm sure you could slice it in a way to draw that conclusion but I doubt doing so would reflect an understanding of the data. For example, you could point to quickly rising wages at the bottom of the job market, but you would have to ignore the stagnation of those wages for the previous twenty years, and then use that to try and tell middle class people that they're spending less than ever on food? I don't believe it. Of course this is again sidestepping the core issues facing young people when it comes to getting an education and laying a foundation in their adult lives.

 

*edit* - it is possible that I entirely misread your response to fatty. i read that as you suggesting that people are simple for *feeling* like things have gotten expensive when, as fatty seemingly suggests, relative to wage growth they have not

My comment to fatty was facetiously pointing out that people here  often make spurrious claims, and then ignore — worse, get offended!!— when contradicted by actual objective data. 

I dont know what fattys real underlying belief was, whether he was being sarcastic, but I do know the relative cost of eating out stayed constant to earnings, but the total cost of food went down over the long term.

To pre-empt any cherry picked slicing of the data, YOU can pick any timeframe you want.  5 year, 20 year, 35 year, etc, and we’ll see what the numbers say. 

We agree to plant the goalpost before we snap the ball…otherwise its a waste of time

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Cum Rocket said:

Lol this is the correct answer. Captain should work for a DPS office. Or maybe at a VA hospital. He’ll be surrounded by people putting a lot of effort Into doing the bare minimum. With predictable results. It sounds like the kind of work culture you would thrive in @Captainant

yeah working at a VA hospital sounds like a dream

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21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Ummmm.....I don't think you've been paying attention to the dominant social and political strain in our country.

Our children participated in team and individual sports, we understand the situation only too well. However, our time on this planet is short, sometimes shorter than we realize.

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24 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

My comment to fatty was facetiously pointing out that people here  often make spurrious claims, and then ignore — worse, get offended!!— when contradicted by actual objective data. 

the thing I was making light of is that you did so while quoting a comment that contains obviously bullshit totally not objective data

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1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

are you under the impression that the cost of a burger relative to how much money you make personally over time is the conversation that we're having?

No, I’m under the impression we have a bunch of folks between 12 and 30 who are having a hard time figuring out what 10’s (hundreds?) of millions around them have.  Even after (presumably) being raised in a better house, in a better hood, while receiving a better education, and having more opportunity and technology at their fingertips than any preceding generation, they cannot find “happiness”, however that’s personally defined.  

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i guess you're talking to me. 

 

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, so…fuck you.
There are a shitload of people in those contemptible “government jobs” who deeply care about their job, what they are supposed to accomplish, and the people they serve. Sure, there are some shitty and lazy people - just like there are in the private sector. But you just shit all over all the people who make sure you have water to drink, your toilet flushes go somewhere to be treated, your grandpa gets medical treatment, your neighborhood’s kids learn to do multiplication, all kinds of shit. I can tell you from firsthand observation that a metric shit ton of those people care about their jobs and try damned hard. And many of them are super frustrated that they have to scramble to do more with less because pieces of shit like you have managed to so denigrate all types of public service that they constantly lose funding and support…but they keep on keeping on.
Your fucking asshole attitude is exactly what drives good people out of any public service job (and yeah, I’ve seen that happening in real time). The problem is you, asshole. “ASSHOLE” is the biggest problem we face as a society, and you are clearly one of their gaping examples of that.

 

i can you tell you from firsthand experience that many more in the public sector, when compared to the private sector, don't care about their jobs past the fact that they have it and don't try at all. 

 

Quote

In what world is it ever acceptable to do "just enough"? Have you ever worked somewhere that didn't constantly push you to produce more and do more with less? When has ANY job been happy with its current size and didn't have indefinite growth as the ultimate goal of the enterprise?

that was the question posed.  you don't agree that there's an attitude of doing "just enough" in city hall?  in our police departments? in our elected reps?  take an inventory of your time spent on your keyboard- every other post of yours is you yelling at them.  

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5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, so…fuck you.
There are a shitload of people in those contemptible “government jobs” who deeply care about their job, what they are supposed to accomplish, and the people they serve. Sure, there are some shitty and lazy people - just like there are in the private sector. But you just shit all over all the people who make sure you have water to drink, your toilet flushes go somewhere to be treated, your grandpa gets medical treatment, your neighborhood’s kids learn to do multiplication, all kinds of shit. I can tell you from firsthand observation that a metric shit ton of those people care about their jobs and try damned hard. And many of them are super frustrated that they have to scramble to do more with less because pieces of shit like you have managed to so denigrate all types of public service that they constantly lose funding and support…but they keep on keeping on.
Your fucking asshole attitude is exactly what drives good people out of any public service job (and yeah, I’ve seen that happening in real time). The problem is you, asshole. “ASSHOLE” is the biggest problem we face as a society, and you are clearly one of their gaping examples of that.

I didn't say every government job. I know there are important ones.

I mentioned the DPS office and VA hospitals. I haven't worked at a DPS office, but they seem to be lazy af with little accountability. Next time you go, notice how they're talking about they just got off break or when their next break is while they're checking you out.

I've worked at a VA hospital. They're notorious for being staffed by some of the most inefficient, lazy, unmotivated people you could imagine. I stand by that. Not everyone, but if that's your goal you'll fit in great there.

I'll throw in the TSA. They fucking suck and never accomplish anything safety wise. Unpleasant, doing the bare minimum. If you want to Stan for the TSA, then have at it Brisket.

 

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