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Posted
18 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

All their symbols at the bottom of that graphic. What’s the last one?

I know man. I was teasing you. 212 is skeletors charity I think. I think it’s a Sandusky thing.

Posted
27 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

That is exactly the same thought I had. There are some interesting perspectives but the overall approach is going to fail miserably. 

They're not doing anything groundbreaking wrt recruiting. Literally every program that can't recruit at a high level tries to make up for it with evaluations. It's been that way forever. The only difference is the guy they put in charge has the title of "general manager" rather than "head coach."

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Posted
3 minutes ago, TXpride said:

They're not doing anything groundbreaking wrt recruiting. Literally every program that can't recruit at a high level tries to make up for it with evaluations. It's been that way forever. The only difference is the guy they put in charge has the title of "general manager" rather than "head coach."

And does he think we don’t have an army of analysts who are also prioritizing our rankings rather than the recruiting services? Only difference is that our head coach actually gets to participate in (have control over) talent acquisition. 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, TXpride said:

They're not doing anything groundbreaking wrt recruiting. Literally every program that can't recruit at a high level tries to make up for it with evaluations. It's been that way forever. The only difference is the guy they put in charge has the title of "general manager" rather than "head coach."

It sounds like they’ve separated recruiting and coaching to the extent possible. Like, here’s your team , coach them. 

Posted
Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

It sounds like they’ve separated recruiting and coaching to the extent possible. Like, here’s your team , coach them. 

And if there were a draft, that approach might make a little more sense. I will be shocked if this little experiment doesn’t set them back at least a decade. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Chili dog said:

And does he think we don’t have an army of analysts who are also prioritizing our rankings rather than the recruiting services? Only difference is that our head coach actually gets to participate in (have control over) talent acquisition. 

But do we have anyone on staff who spent 7 years working for the Senior Bowl? Advantage gooner.

Posted
1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

It sounds like they’ve separated recruiting and coaching to the extent possible. Like, here’s your team , coach them. 

Phantom Island just did an episode about this, but coming from the angle of asking if the days of the workaholic coach are falling into the past.  With the context we have, it does seem relatively easier to find people who are good at eval, people who are good at gameplan/scheme, people who are good at talent acquisition, and people who are good at talent maximization versus finding 11-15 unicorns who are great at all areas. 

I'd still pay good money to hear the unvarnished truth about what happend with Thad Turnipseed and the AD's office.  It can't have been as simple as "he wanted to build a new basketball arena and they refocused fundraising on NIL."

Posted
8 hours ago, kilroydos said:

Phantom Island just did an episode about this, but coming from the angle of asking if the days of the workaholic coach are falling into the past.  With the context we have, it does seem relatively easier to find people who are good at eval, people who are good at gameplan/scheme, people who are good at talent acquisition, and people who are good at talent maximization versus finding 11-15 unicorns who are great at all areas. 

I'd still pay good money to hear the unvarnished truth about what happend with Thad Turnipseed and the AD's office.  It can't have been as simple as "he wanted to build a new basketball arena and they refocused fundraising on NIL."

Sure, it’s smart to departmentalize work so that one person is not responsible for too much. Still, how departments are organized, with who reports to whom, are important. 
 
Texas and Georgia are following the Saban model, with scouting reporting to the HC. OU says they are following the NFL model, which typically has a GM overseeing relatively autonomous personnel and coaching staffs. However, to me, they look more like the Dallas Cowboys, where the GM hires coordinators and limits coaching inputs to personnel decisions. 

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Posted
12 hours ago, Vertigo said:

This post needs to be a template answer to literally every thread topic.

I could have bloviated in the topic like many do, but chose not to. 

I think it’s going to go poorly because excluding the coaches who will be hands on from the process of who they’ll be coaching is a bad idea. At that level, coaches know what they’re looking for in a player. 

This is setting up to end like a Jerry Jones draft and I’m here for it. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, statsman said:

Sure, it’s smart to departmentalize work so that one person is not responsible for too much. Still, how departments are organized, with who reports to whom, are important. 
 
Texas and Georgia are following the Saban model, with scouting reporting to the HC. OU says they are following the NFL model, which typically has a GM overseeing relatively autonomous personnel and coaching staffs. However, to me, they look more like the Dallas Cowboys, where the GM hires coordinators and limits coaching inputs to personnel decisions. 

The Cowboys comparison is solid.  They don't trust Venables when it comes to offense.  That's well earned, but when a coach is that incompetent on one side of the ball, it's never going to work out.  It doesn't sound like he has any intention of changing his approach to practice, so they're still going to have injury problems.

Edited by kevwun
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Posted

The affective side of CFB, from recruiting, through development and gameplay, and even into post-career association, strikes me as a major difference wrt the NFL. Teenagers and their parents respond to coaches in ways that 22-YOs frequently do not. The GM over HC model appears to overlook the importance of the distinction much to their detriment. Football Dad is demoted to boss.

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Posted
On 7/27/2025 at 2:12 PM, Chili dog said:

From former coworker and OU fan:

“Here is my culmination of notes from Jim Nagy.

Gabe Ikard and Teddy Lehman introduced Jim Nagy as he took a seat to a loud ovation from the crowd. Nagy spoke to the crowd for over an hour. He also personally spoke to several crowd members after the event (including me).

Nagy confirmed a lot of what TFB has already been reporting, but he also gave a few interesting tidbits as well. I took notes and found the following things very interesting.

– Nagy thanked his staff that works under him and explained what he oversees (basically everything within the football program). Some of his staff was highly coveted.

– He mentioned that the setup with a GM, an evaluation staff, etc that OU is using mimics NFL organizations. He said OU is the ONLY university running this type of set up in CFB. He said it makes sense, considering players will be paid and there’s no getting around it. He did say he never planned on working for a college, but if he did, there was a short list of perennial powerhouse universities that he would have even considered. OU was one of them.

– Nagy said his goal is to get OU national championships.

– He explained the role of his staff. He said they are responsible for searching, finding, evaluating, and recruiting high school and portal players. He did mention he has had to adjust to watching high school tape as opposed to NFL prospects tape.

– As TFB mentioned, he said his staff is strictly forbidden from using national recruiting services to find or evaluate players. He said they put in their own work with evaluations and use a uniform grading system, and they do not care or even know what star rating the players have (until later in the process, which I’ll hit on). He reiterated that everyone has to use this grading system and that it has been tested in the NFL and it works. He’s very confident with this evaluation process.

– Nagy joked and said an unnamed position coach came up to him with a national recruiting service top 25 players for his position to try and help his staff out. He laughed and basically told the coach he didn’t need the list.

– Nagy mentioned that the coaches were wasting time watching hours upon hours of film for recruits. He said they can now focus solely on COACHING. He said the film watching will be done by his staff and the players will be graded. He said coaches should coach, and this system takes a load off of the coaches.

– Once the players are graded independently, he mentioned that his staff members need to all agree on the grading range. They present these players to the coaches, and the coaches can ask questions or review the player further. He said if the coach has any concerns, everyone (coaches and his staff) meets and they must be on board before moving forward with the recruit. He said if the coaches aren’t fully on board, the player will not be recruited because his staff will not force any players onto the coaching staff who they don’t buy into fully.

– Nagy mentioned that they are working on the 2026 recruiting class right now. He mentioned how several recruits were asking for so much money that it was more than any current player on the roster is making. Nagy said he will not upset the culture and program by overpaying a player in this way. He said this 2026 group understands this was the last hurrah with non-capped money and tried to take advantage of it.

– He said each staff member has a huge board or type of layout. It details each recruit’s life basically and instructs the staff member when they need to call, text, or check in with a recruit based on their individual needs.

– He mentioned that this new generation of players tells everyone how much money they are making, and they compare it with each other, so it’s very important to not upset the culture.

 

– On that same note he said he really loves the culture BV has built, and they are all family. He said he personally tries to connect with each recruit and their families. He said some recruits were on campus for an official visit and he had first met them on this visit since he was only recently hired. He said he wants the recruits to not only be able to reach out to the coaches if they have issues or concerns, but also to his staff. He wants the recruits and their families to feel comfortable with everything about OU.

– Also as TFB has reported, Nagy mentioned that a few schools restructured and front loaded their players pay so they have more money now for 26 recruits with this revenue sharing. He said those schools will have more money to work with this go around, but assured the crowd that OU will still compete with them in recruiting, and he hinted that OU will be in a similar situation as these schools for the 2027 class.

– He jokingly mentioned how an unnamed recruit jumped up in the rankings when he committed to OU as he spoke of national recruiting services.

– He mentioned that Revenue sharing is what the players are getting and the biggest issue (not NIL). He said revenue sharing with the cap is the future of college football and all teams will work with the process.

– He mentioned that OU will flip some recruits in the fall and he truly believes this season will be very successful. He hinted that they are recruiting some committed players now.

– Nagy said that once a recruit is more or less serious about coming to OU, a price range is determined. He said that at that time, the player leverages their pay by using the national star ranking system. So he said, even though his staff doesn’t care if a guy is a consensus 4 or 5 star during evaluations, they are fair and understand that the player will and should be compensated appropriately if he is a 4 or 5 star recruit by the recruiting services.

– He mentioned the biggest positive about his own staff using a trusted grading system and evaluating their own prospects is, it can allow the revenue money to be used more efficiently. He specifically said if they evaluate and grade a 5-star and a 3-star recruit the same (he said if both recruits grade out as a starter or all-conference potential for example)….why pay a massive amount more for the 5-star when his grade is the same as the 3-star? He went on to say that’s how much he trusts his grading system. He said OU won’t compete with ”Miami or Texas A&M ” for a listed 5-star when OU values the 3-star just as much (or more in some cases) at the same position. He said OU would rather go get the 3-star player because he thinks OU will get the same quality of player for a better bargain.

– Nagy said he holds his staff accountable. He reiterated the fact that he will find good players for the coaches and he takes all responsibility if a player doesn’t work out. He told the coaches don’t worry about recruits and stars, he’s gonna get them the players they need.”

These fucking guys…

kool aid friday movie GIF

"It's a program that mimics the NFL and the coaches aren't involved in evaluations!"

(most NFL teams bring coaches in for evaluations later in the process, and not having a coach sign off on a scheme fit is a potential point of failure) 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Fud said:

"It's a program that mimics the NFL and the coaches aren't involved in evaluations!"

(most NFL teams bring coaches in for evaluations later in the process, and not having a coach sign off on a scheme fit is a potential point of failure) 

Technically they do address this:  "said if the coaches aren’t fully on board, the player will not be recruited because his staff will not force any players onto the coaching staff who they don’t buy into fully."

Whether that's going to be successful in practice...who knows?  It certainly isn't successful everywhere in the NFL, and you only have to look for the Cowboys notes in this thread to see how it could go poorly.

Posted
5 minutes ago, kilroydos said:

Technically they do address this:  "said if the coaches aren’t fully on board, the player will not be recruited because his staff will not force any players onto the coaching staff who they don’t buy into fully."

Whether that's going to be successful in practice...who knows?  It certainly isn't successful everywhere in the NFL, and you only have to look for the Cowboys notes in this thread to see how it could go poorly.

I supposed I missed that because my eyes were too busy rolling to the back of my head

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Posted
Just now, Fud said:

I supposed I missed that because my eyes were too busy rolling to the back of my head

You're right though, this is all as meaningful as any other public press announcement.

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Fud said:

"It's a program that mimics the NFL and the coaches aren't involved in evaluations!"

(most NFL teams bring coaches in for evaluations later in the process, and not having a coach sign off on a scheme fit is a potential point of failure) 

Makes even less sense if youre trying to moneyball this shit. The guys with the physical talent and current football ability to plug into any scheme are more often going to be ranked higher and unobtainable for moneyball OU. The programs that evaluate well usually find the less heralded guys whose weaknesses would be masked by their scheme...

Edited by Bevo14
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Posted
3 hours ago, kilroydos said:

Whether that's going to be successful in practice...who knows?  It certainly isn't successful everywhere in the NFL, and you only have to look for the Cowboys notes in this thread to see how it could go poorly.

Y’all should ask Jerry Jones to be your final authority on who you sign. 

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Posted
25 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Y’all should ask Jerry Jones to be your final authority on who you sign. 

I've seen some fans out there speculating about what it would take to get some of the PIF money from the Saudis.  Maybe we let one of their failsons run the show?

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Posted

OU is doomed to failure, IMO. 

I appreciate that college football has become way more transactional than it ever has been, but it's always been transactional on some level. OU fielding successful teams is the perfect example of that. It's still relational, though.

The NFL's primary source of talent acquisition is the draft. Of course they can fill in gaps with free agency and trades, but if you're not drafting well you're simply not going to be able to compete at the highest level.

College football's primary source of talent acquisition remains high school recruiting. At least for programs with national championship aspirations. Which OU may or may not ever achieve again, but that's going to be the fan base's expectation for the time being. The transfer portal is critical, but it's to plug gaps, not to overhaul the entire roster. And even there relationships can be important.

OU is adding layers to their talent acquisition that are going to make them inherently less effective in recruiting. Not more effective. They are going to purposefully recruit guys who are undervalued in order to beat the system. But they're having the coaches recruit players they didn't fully invest in. That's an organizational issue. Also, Nagy says his goal is to win national championships, but that's not really his goal. His goal is to keep his job regardless of performance. OU fans and administrators are obviously desperate. They do not feel like they can compete in the NIL space so they're hoping Nagy is some kind of magic bullet. Castiglione has resigned/retired, in part because of the dynamics in play within the athletic department. Venables isn't happy having the power of building his roster taken away from him. He's on a short leash. If/when OU fails to meet expectations, who is going to get the ax? It's not going to be Nagy, that seems certain. He's going to be able to sell this form of bullshit for several years before OU people realize the Emperor isn't wearing clothes. They'll probably have to go through at least one more coaching change before they clean shop. 

OU's best hope is that Nagy is hired away to peddle his bullshit somewhere else. Because what kind of quality head coach is going to want to sign up for this mess?

This is doomed to failure. They'd be better off hiring Larry Ellison's wife for the position. At the very least go after one of Harold Hamm's kids. Then hire the right coach like they did with Bob Stoops. I realize coaches like that can be a moon shot, but that's what it takes. Nagy is going to help run that program into middling status at best. 

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Posted (edited)

I think Nagy and Stephenson are firmly entrenched. 
 

The NFL already told Nagy no thanks, and Stephenson very publicly failed in the private sector. Their employment options outside of OU Athletics would probably consist of running an offshore crypto mine. 

Edited by billfromlaketravis
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Posted

It's good thing they are idiots.  If they were smart they would take starters off of the rosters of Arkansas, Okie Lite and Tulsa.  Guys who would be reaches in high school but are from Oklahoma and have shown that they can play big boy football.  OU is run by idiots.

Posted
48 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Going with the Bill Snyder Kansas State approach is a bold move. It's amazing to watch a blue blood program basically give up.

It does seem like they're attempting to build what is essentially a souped up Big 12 team. I feel like I've posted a few variations of this, but it's just so shocking to me that the powers that be at OU were fooled by such an obvious charlatan. If you take the teams that are perceived as effectively deploying the "identify underrecruited three stars", say KSU, ISU and Rhule Baylor, they typically produce 2-5 NFL draft picks annually, including 1-2 first round picks per decade. Oh and also they quite literally never contend for national championships. Nagy claims they can contend for national championships using this strategy. Let's take a look at NFL draft results for recent national champions: 

OSU '25: 14 draft picks (7 in the first two rounds)

Michigan'24: 13 draft picks (3 in the first two rounds) 

Georgia '23: 10 draft picks (3 in the first two rounds) 

Georgia '22: 15 draft picks (7 in the first two rounds)

Alabama '21: 10 draft picks (8 in the first two rounds)

Of course that only includes draft eligible players, if you look at draft results the year after a national championship, it's usually a pretty similar picture. So basically what Nagy is selling is that he can double the hit rate of the very best talent identifiers AND talent developers every single year because... he learned so much watching pro bowls? No one has ever tried deploying this strategy at a blue chip school? Just trust me bro? 

 

 

 

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Jimmy Two Times said:

It does seem like they're attempting to build what is essentially a souped up Big 12 team. I feel like I've posted a few variations of this, but it's just so shocking to me that the powers that be at OU were fooled by such an obvious charlatan. If you take the teams that are perceived as effectively deploying the "identify underrecruited three stars", say KSU, ISU and Rhule Baylor, they typically produce 2-5 NFL draft picks annually, including 1-2 first round picks per decade. Oh and also they quite literally never contend for national championships. Nagy claims they can contend for national championships using this strategy. Let's take a look at NFL draft results for recent national champions: 

OSU '25: 14 draft picks (7 in the first two rounds)

Michigan'24: 13 draft picks (3 in the first two rounds) 

Georgia '23: 10 draft picks (3 in the first two rounds) 

Georgia '22: 15 draft picks (7 in the first two rounds)

Alabama '21: 10 draft picks (8 in the first two rounds)

Of course that only includes draft eligible players, if you look at draft results the year after a national championship, it's usually a pretty similar picture. So basically what Nagy is selling is that he can double the hit rate of the very best talent identifiers AND talent developers every single year because... he learned so much watching pro bowls? No one has ever tried deploying this strategy at a blue chip school? Just trust me bro? 

 

 

 

Desperate times. Desperate measures. It's amazing what any of us will believe when we find our options limited and someone offers us hope. Even false hope. OU can see their relevance disappearing for lack of resources. They had to have hope a true salary cap was going to be instituted with the House settlement or other legislation/court orders. And then their approach would win out (I'm not saying it would - I'm saying that's the core belief). 

They still have amazing facilities, a decent athletic department revenue stream. They're not completely down for the count. They have a state population that's likely to subsidize the payroll with a tax of some sort, if that's permitted whether by permission or forgiveness. Same as LSU's fan base. 

I believe a diffusion of responsibilities is a great way to protect the incompetent. Who is responsible for the decline of OU football? Not me! I have answers, son! Diffusion of responsibilities in an organization rewards the people most gifted at finding scapegoats. I feel like Nagy has positioned himself where he won't be blamed for OU's decline for years. 

I'll also say that KSU did come close to competing for a national championship with Michael Bishop at quarterback. Probably should have. But that was a different era when Snyder exploited KSU's open enrollment and the junior college system in place at the time to help bring in players who had difficulties meeting the NCAA minimum entry. But that was 30 years ago and that dynamic hasn't existed since. Also, TCU competed for a national championship. But that was a one off. More the exception that proves the rule. 

Nagy can poo poo the recruiting services all he wants, but the truth is it's harder to find a diamond in the rough than it ever has been. There are too many paths to exposure. 

I truly feel like it starts with having the right head coach. The right head coach wouldn't have had an end around pulled on him like this. Nagy having the power he does is as much a sign of Venables being the wrong guy as much as his horrific offense and his win/loss record. Could you imagine this happening to Bob Stoops?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SL Xpress said:

 

I'll also say that KSU did come close to competing for a national championship with Michael Bishop at quarterback. Probably should have. But that was a different era when Snyder exploited KSU's open enrollment and the junior college system in place at the time to help bring in players who had difficulties meeting the NCAA minimum entry. But that was 30 years ago and that dynamic hasn't existed since. Also, TCU competed for a national championship. But that was a one off. More the exception that proves the rule. 

Nagy can poo poo the recruiting services all he wants, but the truth is it's harder to find a diamond in the rough than it ever has been. There are too many paths to exposure. 

I truly feel like it starts with having the right head coach. The right head coach wouldn't have had an end around pulled on him like this. Nagy having the power he does is as much a sign of Venables being the wrong guy as much as his horrific offense and his win/loss record. Could you imagine this happening to Bob Stoops?

Great points. A couple of comments-

In the pre-BCS era, the surest way to a NC is to build a really good team and have an easy schedule. Mid ‘50s OU and ‘80s Miami played about three games per year against comparably talented teams. Weren’t they terrific teams? Sure- but they weren’t playing a schedule like 1981 Texas. 
 
Going from the BCS to the CFP, that path has gotten consistently more difficult. Now, a NC has to go on a 4-0 streak against top 12 teams (counting the CCGs).

Asfor Venables, you’re right. When they first started to create their new GM position, Venables should have said, “that’s not the terms of my contract. I report to the AD, not to the GM. If you insist on this, pay me my buyout and go find your new HC”.

 

Edited by statsman
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