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Posted
1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Damn, I missed catching up on this thread yesterday. Some of you boys had a really rough Saturday night, huh? 

I don't remember most of it.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, swraith said:

Maybe if TSA and air traffic control go more than month, people will create urgency to revolve this prior to Thanksgiving travel. 

If Thanksgiving travel is a mess(messier than the mess it will already be) will people even notice?  Lots of scar tissue from the Pandemic air travel issues and the last few years of air travel being a shit show anyway.

Posted
38 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I was coming to post something similar.

I think the Dem strategy of using healthcare as their battle cry in this is falling on deaf ears.  Maybe it's just me, but in my world, no one is walking around talking about healthcare.  I don't think most people even understand what a shut down is or what the healthcare argument is about.

If I were the Dems, I would be just hammering the fact that the Rs control the government entirely and they shut it down.  Full stop.  That's the argument.  They are so inept that they can't keep the government they fully control open.  Prices are still high.  Don't vote for these dopes again.

 

But nope, we are going to try and get into the weeds on a tax credit for healthcare that 95% of the nation doesn't even understand.  Cool.

This

Posted
43 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I was coming to post something similar.

I think the Dem strategy of using healthcare as their battle cry in this is falling on deaf ears.  Maybe it's just me, but in my world, no one is walking around talking about healthcare.  I don't think most people even understand what a shut down is or what the healthcare argument is about.

If I were the Dems, I would be just hammering the fact that the Rs control the government entirely and they shut it down.  Full stop.  That's the argument.  They are so inept that they can't keep the government they fully control open.  Prices are still high.  Don't vote for these dopes again.

 

But nope, we are going to try and get into the weeds on a tax credit for healthcare that 95% of the nation doesn't even understand.  Cool.

Yeah, it's stupid to try to make it about healthcare. We need some idiots to learn from touching the stove that touching the stove is bad and they shouldn't do it again. Last Trump admin Dems worked to alleviate the effects of his policies on millions of voters and got no credit for it.  He just slapped his name on the checks they had worked to pass. There are lots of people who need to experience the results of what they voted for. 

It'd make more sense, and would have better public appeal, to simply say that Dems are in the minority and have no control over the outcome, but that they will not co-sign a lawless dictatorship that steals from taxpayers for his own purposes and benefit.  But they're so fucking policy brained they can't help themselves.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, it's stupid to try to make it about healthcare. We need some idiots to learn from touching the stove that touching the stove is bad and they shouldn't do it again. Last Trump admin Dems worked to alleviate the effects of his policies on millions of voters and got no credit for it.  He just slapped his name on the checks they had worked to pass. There are lots of people who need to experience the results of what they voted for. 

It'd make more sense, and would have better public appeal, to simply say that Dems are in the minority and have no control over the outcome, but that they will not co-sign a lawless dictatorship that steals from taxpayers for his own purposes and benefit.  But they're so fucking policy brained they can't help themselves.

Here we go again. Dems are problematic becasue they focus on policy. You know, the things lawmakers are supposed to be focused on developing and implementing. I get the point, its just fucking depressing that our country is so full of stupid people that government policy is less important than soundbites and vilification of others. BTW, the dems are focused largely from what I can tell on pointing out that R's are in charge and this is their fault. Sometimes it gets followed up with the detail to combat the bullshit "they want healthcare for illegals." That latter soundbite works, because our country is fucking pathetic. Since republicans are going to dominate going forward I'm all for just dismantling the whole fucking thing. Let the states take back full control so the south can be it's pathetic self with it's marginal economies and let the west coast and northeast corridors dominate and keep their own tax money. And yes I also know that's not how it would work,

Posted
5 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Here we go again. Dems are problematic becasue they focus on policy. You know, the things lawmakers are supposed to be focused on developing and implementing. I get the point, its just fucking depressing that our country is so full of stupid people that government policy is less important than soundbites and vilification of others. BTW, the dems are focused largely from what I can tell on pointing out that R's are in charge and this is their fault. Sometimes it gets followed up with the detail to combat the bullshit "they want healthcare for illegals." That latter soundbite works, because our country is fucking pathetic. Since republicans are going to dominate going forward I'm all for just dismantling the whole fucking thing. Let the states take back full control so the south can be it's pathetic self with it's marginal economies and let the west coast and northeast corridors dominate and keep their own tax money. And yes I also know that's not how it would work,

They can focus on policy on the back end, but in order to get in control (legally), they have to play the game as it exists now.  And that is NOT talking about policy.  That is dumbing it down to appeal to the most basic dumbass voter.  

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Posted
1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

They can focus on policy on the back end, but in order to get in control (legally), they have to play the game as it exists now.  And that is NOT talking about policy.  That is dumbing it down to appeal to the most basic dumbass voter.  

Yes I know, that's what fucking depresses me the most, and why I think our democracy is over.

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Posted
1 minute ago, 'stache said:

Yes I know, that's what fucking depresses me the most, and why I think our democracy is over.

It's been over.

When one side in a two-party system decides -- and succeeds -- to govern via idiocracy and kakistocracy, it's all over but the shouting.

The only choice left is who governs the rubble.  "Whether the Republic will be rubble" is a question that's no longer on the table, it's been answered.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's been over.

When one side in a two-party system decides -- and succeeds -- to govern via idiocracy and kakistocracy, it's all over but the shouting.

The only choice left is who governs the rubble.  "Whether the Republic will be rubble" is a question that's no longer on the table, it's been answered.

Capital: the one ring to rule them all.

Posted

For the millionth time with these idiots, fuck all the getting into the weeds on healthcare tax credits (wtf does that even mean? I’m a politic nerd compared to gen pop and even I gloss the fuck over immediately)… “we will approve the budget when the Epstein docs are released in full with out redaction” simple and puts them on their heels from the top down on an overwhelmingly populist point  

 

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Posted

White House Signals It May Try to Deny Back Pay to Furloughed Federal Workers
Union leaders and Democratic lawmakers say the move would run afoul of a law adopted under President Trump’s first term.

Hundreds of thousands of furloughed federal workers may not automatically receive back pay once the government reopens, the White House indicated in a draft memo, prompting broad fears that the Trump administration might try to circumvent federal law to maximize the pain of the shutdown.

The memo, which was shared by a White House official, could presage a radical break from a policy adopted during President Trump’s first term. It appeared to contradict some of the administration’s own guidance, which by Tuesday still indicated that furloughed employees would receive retroactive pay shortly after Congress strikes a funding deal.

Following the longest shutdown in history — a five-week closure that began under Mr. Trump at the end of 2018 — Congress adopted a law that guaranteed back pay for the millions of federal workers who often bear the financial brunt of funding lapses. That measure, known as the Government Employee Fair Treatment Act, applied not only to that closure but also future fiscal lapses, quelling a major source of uncertainty for federal workers caught in the political fray.

Mr. Tump signed that measure into law in 2019. But his administration six years later now appears to have interpreted its guarantees much differently.

In the draft memo, the White House budget office said that only the workers who are deemed as essential — military service members, air traffic controllers and others still working while the government is closed — are entitled to pay once the stalemate ends. For those who are furloughed, the White House memo lays out the case that Congress still must explicitly approve funding for the payments.

Union officials and Democratic lawmakers quickly blasted Mr. Trump for what they described as only the latest attempt to use federal workers as bargaining chips during the shutdown. The president separately has threatened to fire government workers while federal offices remain closed, prompting labor groups to sue in a bid to block the mass layoffs.

Everett Kelley, the national president of the American Federation of Government Employees, said the White House had offered a “frivolous argument” about back pay and an “obvious misinterpretation of the law,” noting that the government itself appeared to take a much different position in public guidance.

In a question-and-answer document posted online by the Office of Personnel Management, the agency specifically says that “employees who were furloughed as the result of the lapse will receive retroactive pay for those furlough periods.”

Senator Patty Murray of Washington, the top Democrat on the chamber’s Appropriations Committee, said on social media that the White House memo marked only “another baseless attempt to try and scare” federal workers.

“The letter of the law is as plain as can be — federal workers, including furloughed workers, are entitled to their back pay following a shutdown,” she said.

Axios earlier reported on the memo.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Here we go again. Dems are problematic becasue they focus on policy. You know, the things lawmakers are supposed to be focused on developing and implementing. I get the point, its just fucking depressing that our country is so full of stupid people that government policy is less important than soundbites and vilification of others. BTW, the dems are focused largely from what I can tell on pointing out that R's are in charge and this is their fault. Sometimes it gets followed up with the detail to combat the bullshit "they want healthcare for illegals." That latter soundbite works, because our country is fucking pathetic. Since republicans are going to dominate going forward I'm all for just dismantling the whole fucking thing. Let the states take back full control so the south can be it's pathetic self with it's marginal economies and let the west coast and northeast corridors dominate and keep their own tax money. And yes I also know that's not how it would work,

The bolded was my initial point. "WHAT" is the R's fault? We have to get to a specific pain point rather than a general "It's the R's fault the government shut down". 

Okay? What does that even mean to the layman? That was my point, nobody I know or talk to or interact with has felt 1 ounce of pain fromt he government being shut down right now (hence the comment, there seems to be a huge lack of urgency). Maybe I'm insulated in the suburbs. Maybe not. Maybe there just needs to be more time to allow the negative consequences to play out (e.g. holiday travel snarls). Maybe not. The point is, you have to drag the people across the glass and help them feel the pain they are supposed to be feeling from the government shutting down.

A winning message isn't "the R's are dolts and shut the government down!" if there is no pain. A winning message is to identify the pain and tie it to the R's fault, "Your prescription arthritis medicine went from $5 to $300 this month and every month after beause the greedy republicans shut down the government!"

I just made that last consquence up, but you get the point. Need to analyze and draw out the conclusions and spoonfeed it to people.

Edited by Vegas64


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