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Posted
1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Damn, I missed catching up on this thread yesterday. Some of you boys had a really rough Saturday night, huh? 

I don't remember most of it.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, swraith said:

Maybe if TSA and air traffic control go more than month, people will create urgency to revolve this prior to Thanksgiving travel. 

If Thanksgiving travel is a mess(messier than the mess it will already be) will people even notice?  Lots of scar tissue from the Pandemic air travel issues and the last few years of air travel being a shit show anyway.

Posted
38 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I was coming to post something similar.

I think the Dem strategy of using healthcare as their battle cry in this is falling on deaf ears.  Maybe it's just me, but in my world, no one is walking around talking about healthcare.  I don't think most people even understand what a shut down is or what the healthcare argument is about.

If I were the Dems, I would be just hammering the fact that the Rs control the government entirely and they shut it down.  Full stop.  That's the argument.  They are so inept that they can't keep the government they fully control open.  Prices are still high.  Don't vote for these dopes again.

 

But nope, we are going to try and get into the weeds on a tax credit for healthcare that 95% of the nation doesn't even understand.  Cool.

This

Posted
43 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I was coming to post something similar.

I think the Dem strategy of using healthcare as their battle cry in this is falling on deaf ears.  Maybe it's just me, but in my world, no one is walking around talking about healthcare.  I don't think most people even understand what a shut down is or what the healthcare argument is about.

If I were the Dems, I would be just hammering the fact that the Rs control the government entirely and they shut it down.  Full stop.  That's the argument.  They are so inept that they can't keep the government they fully control open.  Prices are still high.  Don't vote for these dopes again.

 

But nope, we are going to try and get into the weeds on a tax credit for healthcare that 95% of the nation doesn't even understand.  Cool.

Yeah, it's stupid to try to make it about healthcare. We need some idiots to learn from touching the stove that touching the stove is bad and they shouldn't do it again. Last Trump admin Dems worked to alleviate the effects of his policies on millions of voters and got no credit for it.  He just slapped his name on the checks they had worked to pass. There are lots of people who need to experience the results of what they voted for. 

It'd make more sense, and would have better public appeal, to simply say that Dems are in the minority and have no control over the outcome, but that they will not co-sign a lawless dictatorship that steals from taxpayers for his own purposes and benefit.  But they're so fucking policy brained they can't help themselves.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, it's stupid to try to make it about healthcare. We need some idiots to learn from touching the stove that touching the stove is bad and they shouldn't do it again. Last Trump admin Dems worked to alleviate the effects of his policies on millions of voters and got no credit for it.  He just slapped his name on the checks they had worked to pass. There are lots of people who need to experience the results of what they voted for. 

It'd make more sense, and would have better public appeal, to simply say that Dems are in the minority and have no control over the outcome, but that they will not co-sign a lawless dictatorship that steals from taxpayers for his own purposes and benefit.  But they're so fucking policy brained they can't help themselves.

Here we go again. Dems are problematic becasue they focus on policy. You know, the things lawmakers are supposed to be focused on developing and implementing. I get the point, its just fucking depressing that our country is so full of stupid people that government policy is less important than soundbites and vilification of others. BTW, the dems are focused largely from what I can tell on pointing out that R's are in charge and this is their fault. Sometimes it gets followed up with the detail to combat the bullshit "they want healthcare for illegals." That latter soundbite works, because our country is fucking pathetic. Since republicans are going to dominate going forward I'm all for just dismantling the whole fucking thing. Let the states take back full control so the south can be it's pathetic self with it's marginal economies and let the west coast and northeast corridors dominate and keep their own tax money. And yes I also know that's not how it would work,

Posted
5 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Here we go again. Dems are problematic becasue they focus on policy. You know, the things lawmakers are supposed to be focused on developing and implementing. I get the point, its just fucking depressing that our country is so full of stupid people that government policy is less important than soundbites and vilification of others. BTW, the dems are focused largely from what I can tell on pointing out that R's are in charge and this is their fault. Sometimes it gets followed up with the detail to combat the bullshit "they want healthcare for illegals." That latter soundbite works, because our country is fucking pathetic. Since republicans are going to dominate going forward I'm all for just dismantling the whole fucking thing. Let the states take back full control so the south can be it's pathetic self with it's marginal economies and let the west coast and northeast corridors dominate and keep their own tax money. And yes I also know that's not how it would work,

They can focus on policy on the back end, but in order to get in control (legally), they have to play the game as it exists now.  And that is NOT talking about policy.  That is dumbing it down to appeal to the most basic dumbass voter.  

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Posted
1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

They can focus on policy on the back end, but in order to get in control (legally), they have to play the game as it exists now.  And that is NOT talking about policy.  That is dumbing it down to appeal to the most basic dumbass voter.  

Yes I know, that's what fucking depresses me the most, and why I think our democracy is over.

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Posted
1 minute ago, 'stache said:

Yes I know, that's what fucking depresses me the most, and why I think our democracy is over.

It's been over.

When one side in a two-party system decides -- and succeeds -- to govern via idiocracy and kakistocracy, it's all over but the shouting.

The only choice left is who governs the rubble.  "Whether the Republic will be rubble" is a question that's no longer on the table, it's been answered.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's been over.

When one side in a two-party system decides -- and succeeds -- to govern via idiocracy and kakistocracy, it's all over but the shouting.

The only choice left is who governs the rubble.  "Whether the Republic will be rubble" is a question that's no longer on the table, it's been answered.

Capital: the one ring to rule them all.

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Posted

For the millionth time with these idiots, fuck all the getting into the weeds on healthcare tax credits (wtf does that even mean? I’m a politic nerd compared to gen pop and even I gloss the fuck over immediately)… “we will approve the budget when the Epstein docs are released in full with out redaction” simple and puts them on their heels from the top down on an overwhelmingly populist point  

 

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Posted

White House Signals It May Try to Deny Back Pay to Furloughed Federal Workers
Union leaders and Democratic lawmakers say the move would run afoul of a law adopted under President Trump’s first term.

Hundreds of thousands of furloughed federal workers may not automatically receive back pay once the government reopens, the White House indicated in a draft memo, prompting broad fears that the Trump administration might try to circumvent federal law to maximize the pain of the shutdown.

The memo, which was shared by a White House official, could presage a radical break from a policy adopted during President Trump’s first term. It appeared to contradict some of the administration’s own guidance, which by Tuesday still indicated that furloughed employees would receive retroactive pay shortly after Congress strikes a funding deal.

Following the longest shutdown in history — a five-week closure that began under Mr. Trump at the end of 2018 — Congress adopted a law that guaranteed back pay for the millions of federal workers who often bear the financial brunt of funding lapses. That measure, known as the Government Employee Fair Treatment Act, applied not only to that closure but also future fiscal lapses, quelling a major source of uncertainty for federal workers caught in the political fray.

Mr. Tump signed that measure into law in 2019. But his administration six years later now appears to have interpreted its guarantees much differently.

In the draft memo, the White House budget office said that only the workers who are deemed as essential — military service members, air traffic controllers and others still working while the government is closed — are entitled to pay once the stalemate ends. For those who are furloughed, the White House memo lays out the case that Congress still must explicitly approve funding for the payments.

Union officials and Democratic lawmakers quickly blasted Mr. Trump for what they described as only the latest attempt to use federal workers as bargaining chips during the shutdown. The president separately has threatened to fire government workers while federal offices remain closed, prompting labor groups to sue in a bid to block the mass layoffs.

Everett Kelley, the national president of the American Federation of Government Employees, said the White House had offered a “frivolous argument” about back pay and an “obvious misinterpretation of the law,” noting that the government itself appeared to take a much different position in public guidance.

In a question-and-answer document posted online by the Office of Personnel Management, the agency specifically says that “employees who were furloughed as the result of the lapse will receive retroactive pay for those furlough periods.”

Senator Patty Murray of Washington, the top Democrat on the chamber’s Appropriations Committee, said on social media that the White House memo marked only “another baseless attempt to try and scare” federal workers.

“The letter of the law is as plain as can be — federal workers, including furloughed workers, are entitled to their back pay following a shutdown,” she said.

Axios earlier reported on the memo.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Here we go again. Dems are problematic becasue they focus on policy. You know, the things lawmakers are supposed to be focused on developing and implementing. I get the point, its just fucking depressing that our country is so full of stupid people that government policy is less important than soundbites and vilification of others. BTW, the dems are focused largely from what I can tell on pointing out that R's are in charge and this is their fault. Sometimes it gets followed up with the detail to combat the bullshit "they want healthcare for illegals." That latter soundbite works, because our country is fucking pathetic. Since republicans are going to dominate going forward I'm all for just dismantling the whole fucking thing. Let the states take back full control so the south can be it's pathetic self with it's marginal economies and let the west coast and northeast corridors dominate and keep their own tax money. And yes I also know that's not how it would work,

The bolded was my initial point. "WHAT" is the R's fault? We have to get to a specific pain point rather than a general "It's the R's fault the government shut down". 

Okay? What does that even mean to the layman? That was my point, nobody I know or talk to or interact with has felt 1 ounce of pain fromt he government being shut down right now (hence the comment, there seems to be a huge lack of urgency). Maybe I'm insulated in the suburbs. Maybe not. Maybe there just needs to be more time to allow the negative consequences to play out (e.g. holiday travel snarls). Maybe not. The point is, you have to drag the people across the glass and help them feel the pain they are supposed to be feeling from the government shutting down.

A winning message isn't "the R's are dolts and shut the government down!" if there is no pain. A winning message is to identify the pain and tie it to the R's fault, "Your prescription arthritis medicine went from $5 to $300 this month and every month after beause the greedy republicans shut down the government!"

I just made that last consquence up, but you get the point. Need to analyze and draw out the conclusions and spoonfeed it to people.

Edited by Vegas64
Posted

Lol if you think this shutdown is about anything being covered in the news

 

all it is is a tactic to keep them from swearing in the final vote to release the epstein files. This is just cover/time

Posted
1 hour ago, bluto said:

healthcare tax credits (wtf does that even mean? I’m a politic nerd compared to gen pop and even I gloss the fuck over immediately)

This.  The fact that the Dems think Joe Public that gets their health insurance from obamacare has any idea what that means shows how out of touch they are.

Posted
15 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

The bolded was my initial point. "WHAT" is the R's fault? We have to get to a specific pain point rather than a general "It's the R's fault the government shut down". 

Okay? What does that even mean to the layman? That was my point, nobody I know or talk to or interact with has felt 1 ounce of pain fromt he government being shut down right now (hence the comment, there seems to be a huge lack of urgency). Maybe I'm insulated in the suburbs. Maybe not. Maybe there just needs to be more time to allow the negative consequences to play out (e.g. holiday travel snarls). Maybe not. The point is, you have to drag the people across the glass and help them feel the pain they are supposed to be feeling from the government shutting down.

A winning message isn't "the R's are dolts and shut the government down!" if there is no pain. A winning message is to identify the pain and tie it to the R's fault, "Your prescription arthritis medicine went from $5 to $300 this month and every month after beause the greedy republicans shut down the government!"

I just made that last consquence up, but you get the point. Need to analyze and draw out the conclusions and spoonfeed it to people.

What should be a winning message is that Rs can't govern and are responsible for moster defecits and multple shutdowns. In reality, the winning message is that trans people exist and Mexicans and war on Portland and Chicago.

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Posted
1 hour ago, bolverk said:

White House Signals It May Try to Deny Back Pay to Furloughed Federal Workers
Union leaders and Democratic lawmakers say the move would run afoul of a law adopted under President Trump’s first term.

Hundreds of thousands of furloughed federal workers may not automatically receive back pay once the government reopens, the White House indicated in a draft memo, prompting broad fears that the Trump administration might try to circumvent federal law to maximize the pain of the shutdown.

The memo, which was shared by a White House official, could presage a radical break from a policy adopted during President Trump’s first term. It appeared to contradict some of the administration’s own guidance, which by Tuesday still indicated that furloughed employees would receive retroactive pay shortly after Congress strikes a funding deal.

Following the longest shutdown in history — a five-week closure that began under Mr. Trump at the end of 2018 — Congress adopted a law that guaranteed back pay for the millions of federal workers who often bear the financial brunt of funding lapses. That measure, known as the Government Employee Fair Treatment Act, applied not only to that closure but also future fiscal lapses, quelling a major source of uncertainty for federal workers caught in the political fray.

Mr. Tump signed that measure into law in 2019. But his administration six years later now appears to have interpreted its guarantees much differently.

In the draft memo, the White House budget office said that only the workers who are deemed as essential — military service members, air traffic controllers and others still working while the government is closed — are entitled to pay once the stalemate ends. For those who are furloughed, the White House memo lays out the case that Congress still must explicitly approve funding for the payments.

Union officials and Democratic lawmakers quickly blasted Mr. Trump for what they described as only the latest attempt to use federal workers as bargaining chips during the shutdown. The president separately has threatened to fire government workers while federal offices remain closed, prompting labor groups to sue in a bid to block the mass layoffs.

Everett Kelley, the national president of the American Federation of Government Employees, said the White House had offered a “frivolous argument” about back pay and an “obvious misinterpretation of the law,” noting that the government itself appeared to take a much different position in public guidance.

In a question-and-answer document posted online by the Office of Personnel Management, the agency specifically says that “employees who were furloughed as the result of the lapse will receive retroactive pay for those furlough periods.”

Senator Patty Murray of Washington, the top Democrat on the chamber’s Appropriations Committee, said on social media that the White House memo marked only “another baseless attempt to try and scare” federal workers.

“The letter of the law is as plain as can be — federal workers, including furloughed workers, are entitled to their back pay following a shutdown,” she said.

Axios earlier reported on the memo.

Trump refusing to pay people he owes, no shit?

And yes, y'all did vote for this, suckers.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

What should be a winning message is that Rs can't govern and are responsible for moster defecits and multple shutdowns. In reality, the winning message is that trans people exist and Mexicans and war on Portland and Chicago.

Well, for shitbag Rs (an admittedly huge volume of people) yes.  But for those that can be persuaded to vote D, I think @Vegas64 has it pretty dialed above.  Attach Rs to continued high prices and not being able to keep the government open.  Those can be mutually exclusive, but just tell people prices are going to go even higher because the government is shut down.  It's not like you have to be able to prove that.  Just say it.

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Posted
1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

Trump refusing to pay people he owes, no shit?

And yes, y'all did vote for this, suckers.

Yeah Trump up and refusing to pay for work done is the least surprising thing to happen in a while...

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Posted
2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Damn, I missed catching up on this thread yesterday. Some of you boys had a really rough Saturday night, huh? 

Not really.   But Sunday morning was a real bitch for me.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, 'stache said:

What should be a winning message is that Rs can't govern and are responsible for moster defecits and multple shutdowns. In reality, the winning message is that trans people exist and Mexicans and war on Portland and Chicago.

When one starts talking in should's and ought's it tells me that they are not being realistic and mindful in the present and instead pining wistfully for a bygone era or idllyic age (which itself is probably romanticized in bias and not wholly true). 

A better mindset, to tie it back to the D's and optimizing messaging and success, is to take a "control the controllables" mindset. "it is, now, what it is-- what are you going to do about it". Dont' waste your tears on how it should be if not for those mean old hateful R's, because it's a waste as we all know they aren't wasting a second thinking about anyone else.

Edited by Vegas64
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Posted
3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

de28cb8e5c1f4abdb329c28b496a5f0d.gif

Did you ever have a head coach intentionally put time back on the clock after 10 seconds would be run off - and you’re trying not to give Texas time to tie the game?    

That increased my blood alcohol far more than the W result my friend. And nothing about your post is incorrect.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

But nope, we are going to try and get into the weeds on a tax credit for healthcare that 95% of the nation doesn't even understand.  Cool.

This is why I said earlier they should just refuse to discuss it beyond “ask Mike Johnson”

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Posted
2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

It'd make more sense, and would have better public appeal, to simply say that Dems are in the minority and have no control over the outcome, but that they will not co-sign a lawless dictatorship that steals from taxpayers for his own purposes and benefit.  But they're so fucking policy brained they can't help themselves.

Every time I think about it, I get angry, but the single thing that gets me the most frustrated is the fact that the basic easily provable facts of this administration’s incompetent and destruction of the basic functions of American government is so glaringly apparent to anyone who has that information, that all you really need to do is pick about 10 talking points for your various commercials.

AI and focus groups should tell us the top 10 issues that cross political lines.

Explain what they are going to do to small hospitals and rural communities.

Explain how America is no longer a research leader because of DOGE firing the scientists.

Explained that there is no longer criminals, making billions in the stock market because the SEC has been neutered.

Explain that education and assistance to special-needs children across the country is being shut down and withdrawn.

Explain that the Republicans are focusing on depriving children from getting some of the only food they receive.

Remind voters that taking away healthcare for 13 million people will only happen after the viol election, and that the GOP‘s big beautiful Bill set it up that they wouldn’t know the bad things were going to happen until after they voted for them again.

Why is it so fucking hard?

 

 

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Posted
Just now, Gatorubet said:

Every time I think about it, I get angry, but the single thing that gets me the most frustrated is the fact that the basic easily provable facts of this administration’s incompetent and destruction of the basic functions of American government is so glaringly apparent to anyone who has that information, that all you really need to do is pick about 10 talking points for your various commercials.

AI and focus groups should tell us the top 10 issues that cross political lines.

Explain what they are going to do to small hospitals and rural communities.

Explain how America is no longer a research leader because of DOGE firing the scientists.

Explained that there is no longer criminals, making billions in the stock market because the SEC has been neutered.

Explain that education and assistance to special-needs children across the country is being shut down and withdrawn.

Explain that the Republicans are focusing on depriving children from getting some of the only food they receive.

Remind voters that taking away healthcare for 13 million people will only happen after the viol election, and that the GOP‘s big beautiful Bill set it up that they wouldn’t know the bad things were going to happen until after they voted for them again.

Why is it so fucking hard?

 

 

Because people are stupid and don't care about any of that. 

I just had a tailgate in yalls backyard where a bunch of fucking idiots decided actively to have a worse time by not coming to my tailgate and going to bars and shitty restaurants on university midtown instead of partying in the heart of campus with dope food and a ton of TVs around a bunch of longhorns and former players. 

 

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This is why I said earlier they should just refuse to discuss it beyond “ask Mike Johnson”

For real, what is the Dems obsession with the healthcare message?  Is it because Obamacare is the only thing they have won on in like 20 years?

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Posted
Just now, Biff Tannen said:

For real, what is the Dems obsession with the healthcare message?  Is it because Obamacare is the only thing they have won on in like 20 years?

Healthcare affects everyone. It also resonates, which is why Americans are so hesitant to completely uproot a system in which most people under the age of 65 get health insurance through their employer.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

For real, what is the Dems obsession with the healthcare message?  Is it because Obamacare is the only thing they have won on in like 20 years?

The Democratic party is dominated by lawyers, who think politics is about winning arguments. They are wrong.
The GOP is dominated by salesmen and preachers.

6 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

Did they want you for their army, or whatever?

Picture me giving a damn, I said “never!”

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The Democratic party is dominated by lawyers, who think politics is about winning arguments. They are wrong.
The GOP is dominated by salesmen and preachers.

A media empire dedicated to right wing propaganda helps.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Healthcare affects everyone. It also resonates, which is why Americans are so hesitant to completely uproot a system in which most people under the age of 65 get health insurance through their employer.

Right.  As I understand it, the issue the Dems are rallying around in this shutdown is the extension of ACA tax credits.  This isn't about employer-provided insurance, it's about those who get their insurance via the ACA marketplace, which in 2025 is about 24 million people.

Posted
19 minutes ago, immamac said:

Because people are stupid and don't care about any of that. 

I just had a tailgate in yalls backyard where a bunch of fucking idiots decided actively to have a worse time by not coming to my tailgate and going to bars and shitty restaurants on university midtown instead of partying in the heart of campus with dope food and a ton of TVs around a bunch of longhorns and former players. 

 

That was a great story lol

Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Right.  As I understand it, the issue the Dems are rallying around in this shutdown is the extension of ACA tax credits.  This isn't about employer-provided insurance, it's about those who get their insurance via the ACA marketplace, which in 2025 is about 24 million people.

I was talking about why Democrats focus on healthcare in general and why the public pays attention to the healthcare debate.

Also, 24 million people is a fuck ton when it comes to electoral politics.

Edited by David Dennison
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Posted
3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

A media empire dedicated to right wing propaganda helps.

Agreed, but having mostly poor persuaders in leadership roles isn’t doing Democrats any favors.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I was talking about why Democrats focus on healthcare in general and why the public pays attention to the healthcare debate.

Also, 24 million people is a fuck ton when it comes to electoral politics.

Ok, but for the sake of this thread (and my question), it seems like focusing their energy on a topic that could affect 24 million people when about 180 million people get their healthcare through their employers...

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMt6N8E_ufU5ifgleOuw3

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Ok, but for the sake of this thread (and my question), it seems like focusing their energy on a topic that could affect 24 million people when about 180 million people get their healthcare through their employers...

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMt6N8E_ufU5ifgleOuw3

They are also focusing on it because that was absolutely a winning message in the 2018 midterms. Trump and the Rs tried to take away your ACA plans and you should vote for us.

The message now is Trump and the ads want to make your healthcare more expensive and we’re trying to reduce your costs.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Ok, but for the sake of this thread (and my question), it seems like focusing their energy on a topic that could affect 24 million people when about 180 million people get their healthcare through their employers...

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMt6N8E_ufU5ifgleOuw3

Because every single one of them can imagine being unemployed.

Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The Democratic party is dominated by lawyers, who think politics is about winning arguments. They are wrong.
The GOP is dominated by salesmen and preachers.

This is true but I think the most important thing the pubs figured out is that fear and anger are much much stronger that "caring about others" or "doing the right thing for society".  It's that simple.   Despite what George Lucas tried to sell us, fear and hate are the strongest motivators outside of food/shelter/sex.   And since the dems are not selling those other things, their message is just weak and no one gives a shit.  The gig is up.  Pubs and Fox News figured out and have fully exploited the hack to our lizard brains.  Until there is a full economic collapse resulting in food/shelter shortages, nothing the Dems say is gonna break through. 

Edited by Horn Dog
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Posted
18 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

This is true but I think the most important thing the pubs figured out is that fear and anger are much much stronger that "caring about others" or "doing the right thing for society".  It's that simple.   Despite what George Lucas tried to sell us, fear and hate are the strongest motivators outside of food/shelter/sex.   And since the dems are not selling those other things, their message is just weak and no one gives a shit.  The gig is up.  Pubs and Fox News figured out and have fully exploited the hack to our lizard brains.  Until there is a full economic collapse resulting in food/shelter shortages, nothing the Dems say is gonna break through. 

CORRECT.

There are only two possible paths to winning for the opposition:

(1) don't hate the player, hate the game.  Realize that the current rules of the game are "fear/anger/hate sells, everything else is failed messaging," and play by those rules to win.  Fucking LIE if you have to (fuck it, lie even if you don't have to - gild the fucking lily.  Accuse every GQP official of trying to rape babies, whatever, say all the things).  This is the world we live in, these are the rules of the day.  Play by them or lose.

OR

(2) work to change the rules/order of the day.  That is, try to steer society (which steers about as well as the Titanic, and thus far is headed for its fate) towards a more balanced approach.  Today, we are 99% "toxic individualism is the only way to be," and 1% "maybe doing some things for the common good, cooperating, etc. is a good idea."  If you can get those numbers even slightly more evened out -- maybe back to a 2-1 ratio of "fuck you, I got mine" to "we are all in this together, and we all do better when we all do better" -- then your more nuanced approach to politics will work.

Personally, I think that option (2) is the much, much, MUCH more preferable path, but....we have about a 1% chance of getting there in my lifetime, even if I live to be 100.  We live in an option (1) world now. It sucks, but it ain't gonna change for at least a generation or two.

Posted
26 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

outside of food/shelter/sex.

I've been touting the sex, drugs and rock and roll platform my whole life

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

CORRECT.

There are only two possible paths to winning for the opposition:

(1) don't hate the player, hate the game.  Realize that the current rules of the game are "fear/anger/hate sells, everything else is failed messaging," and play by those rules to win.  Fucking LIE if you have to (fuck it, lie even if you don't have to - gild the fucking lily.  Accuse every GQP official of trying to rape babies, whatever, say all the things).  This is the world we live in, these are the rules of the day.  Play by them or lose.

OR

(2) work to change the rules/order of the day.  That is, try to steer society (which steers about as well as the Titanic, and thus far is headed for its fate) towards a more balanced approach.  Today, we are 99% "toxic individualism is the only way to be," and 1% "maybe doing some things for the common good, cooperating, etc. is a good idea."  If you can get those numbers even slightly more evened out -- maybe back to a 2-1 ratio of "fuck you, I got mine" to "we are all in this together, and we all do better when we all do better" -- then your more nuanced approach to politics will work.

Personally, I think that option (2) is the much, much, MUCH more preferable path, but....we have about a 1% chance of getting there in my lifetime, even if I live to be 100.  We live in an option (1) world now. It sucks, but it ain't gonna change for at least a generation or two.

Yes, Fox News (and Rush, etc) fueled an army of Boomer conservatives by preaching pearl-clutching and this is the end result. My hope during Trump 1.0 was that these Boomers would die off and leave the country to more enlightened groups than my Gen X (Millennials, Gen Y, etc) but turns out the fear has been sold to them as well. We’re beyond fucked.

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