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Surly kids applying / attending UT


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3 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

I've posted this before, but I've had numerous admissions officers tell me "Well rounded applicants roll off the final admissions table." They'd rather see a dedicated drama kid who went all in and can speak interestingly and eloquently to that passion, than East Coast Becky, who was cheerleader, soccer captain, student body vice president, soup kitchen maven, and leader of the church choir.

I read about this a lot over the past year in preparing for my daughter's college application process.  Yes, the general consensus now seems to be, encourage your kid to have a more narrow focus of their time and energy in extracurricular activities so their resume doesn't look something like Max Fisher in Rushmore. 

But I don't think you over correct and tell your kid, "Just focus on chemistry, join (or form) the Chemistry Club, and teach chemistry to the homeless," or something along the lines. 

I think there's a sweet spot.  And my daughter has been engaged in a lot of areas -- varsity basketball, classical guitar major who made All State, officer of the Science Honor Society (I didn't even know that was a thing) who has tutored other students in chemistry, and a few others.  She's far from a resume padder, and is just a social student who has always managed to hang around with different groups of the student population.

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On 2/12/2024 at 8:38 AM, hornian said:

Ok, humble brag time but I do have an issue with my kids I don't know how to handle, and would love some advice:

Lots of folks are on here are posting things like "There's no way I could get into UT now" - but I'm in the opposite boat - I'd have no problem getting into UT these days with my grades/scores from 20+ years ago. I was 4th in my class (not 4%, 4th), and had a ~1500 SAT. And I didn't really work hard at it. Never took any prep courses for the SAT, didn't have to cram to study - it all just came pretty easy for me. I was that kid in high school who did all of his homework in the cafeteria right before the bell rang and got all the questions correct, or who could read the 350 page novel for English once and remember everything about it without a problem, or who finished their test first and aced it and then got in trouble for disrupting the class because I was bored since everyone was slower than me. There was this time in AP physics where I just "got" the concept (I don't remember what it was now), and the teacher asked me to come and explain it to the class, but I couldn't explain how it worked, it just made sense to me and I could work it out in my head but not explain what was going on to get to the correct answer. I was the only person who got an A on that test. I also lettered in more than one sport, was in UIL academics, and still had time to get drunk enough at a party to go the hospital for alcohol poisoning because, again, I just didn't need to study hard so I could do all of that stuff and keep my grades up. To some extent UT was a "wake up call" - but it's because I got some Bs my freshman year instead of all As. The only C I ever got in my life was crim law my 1L year of Law School, and even then it was because 1) crim law just didn't engage me, and 2) crim law was on Tuesday/Thursday afternoons in the Spring, and I would skip a lot of Tuesday classes to go watch baseball games at the Disch (it's not my fault they built the Law School so close to the baseball stadium).

The problem is I don't think my kids will be like that - I love them, and they are smart kids who aren't struggling academically, but they aren't testing the way I was testing at their ages. My oldest is in 2nd grade and is doing fine - but I distinctly remember taking some standardized test in 1st grade and the school talking to my parents because I had gotten the highest score in the whole grade and they wanted to see about me skipping grades (to my parent's credit - they didn't make me skip grades, and I'm glad they didn't as I think that my social skills would have suffered if I did). She's in the top 85% of her class with her MAP scores, so she's smart and gets the concepts, but she's not the smartest kid in the school smart (which I'm fine with, or course). 

I still have a lot of time, but I don't know what I need to do to help them be prepared because I didn't need the help myself - so I don't have anything to fall back on as "well, this worked for me." Is anyone else in this boat, and is there anything that has helped you give your kids the assistance they will need at times when you didn't need it yourself when you were their age?

I don't have kids, so I can't offer anything from the perspective of a parent. But I do have the experience of being the child of highly educated, intelligent parents who put a lot of pressure on me to succeed academically. My dad was a literal genius. I was merely a good student, considerably above average in most subjects, but not a genius or 1600 SAT material. My recollections and suggestions follow. (A lot of this is Parenting 101, but as smart as they were, my parent's weren't always great at this.)

1) While helping your kids study or do homework, try not to show impatience or anger if they are slow to catch on to something. My dad tried to be patient with me, but still there was enough of a gulf between us that it was apparent that he was frustrated that I wasn't getting it. It made me feel, well, dumb. Which, in comparison to him, I was. But he had at least 40 IQ points on me.

2) Don't push your kids into advanced classes or grades that they aren't prepared for. In middle school my parents lobbied hard to get me into "GT"-level classes for English, math, science, etc. Which was OK in the case of English and science subjects, I did well at those. But I was not, and still am not, adept at math, especially abstract math. I was hopelessly lost in that math class, and it was frustrating and embarrassing, and led to further problems described in my point 3 below.

3) If you put too much pressure on a kid to excel with grades, it can have counterproductive results. For example, I was failing the aforementioned math class. The right thing to do would have been to tell my parents/teacher that I couldn't do it, or that I needed extra help, or something along those lines. But I was much too afraid about my parent's reaction to handle it that way. Instead, I tried to cover up my poor grades as long as I could. (I altered my report card.) Giving my parents a report card with a D or F on it was just unthinkable. Of course I eventually got caught, and I even knew I was pretty likely to get caught--but at the time I didn't really feel like I had much to lose.

 

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On 2/12/2024 at 8:38 AM, hornian said:

Ok, humble brag time but I do have an issue with my kids I don't know how to handle, and would love some advice:

Lots of folks are on here are posting things like "There's no way I could get into UT now" - but I'm in the opposite boat - I'd have no problem getting into UT these days with my grades/scores from 20+ years ago. I was 4th in my class (not 4%, 4th), and had a ~1500 SAT. And I didn't really work hard at it. Never took any prep courses for the SAT, didn't have to cram to study - it all just came pretty easy for me. I was that kid in high school who did all of his homework in the cafeteria right before the bell rang and got all the questions correct, or who could read the 350 page novel for English once and remember everything about it without a problem, or who finished their test first and aced it and then got in trouble for disrupting the class because I was bored since everyone was slower than me. There was this time in AP physics where I just "got" the concept (I don't remember what it was now), and the teacher asked me to come and explain it to the class, but I couldn't explain how it worked, it just made sense to me and I could work it out in my head but not explain what was going on to get to the correct answer. I was the only person who got an A on that test. I also lettered in more than one sport, was in UIL academics, and still had time to get drunk enough at a party to go the hospital for alcohol poisoning because, again, I just didn't need to study hard so I could do all of that stuff and keep my grades up. To some extent UT was a "wake up call" - but it's because I got some Bs my freshman year instead of all As. The only C I ever got in my life was crim law my 1L year of Law School, and even then it was because 1) crim law just didn't engage me, and 2) crim law was on Tuesday/Thursday afternoons in the Spring, and I would skip a lot of Tuesday classes to go watch baseball games at the Disch (it's not my fault they built the Law School so close to the baseball stadium).

The problem is I don't think my kids will be like that - I love them, and they are smart kids who aren't struggling academically, but they aren't testing the way I was testing at their ages. My oldest is in 2nd grade and is doing fine - but I distinctly remember taking some standardized test in 1st grade and the school talking to my parents because I had gotten the highest score in the whole grade and they wanted to see about me skipping grades (to my parent's credit - they didn't make me skip grades, and I'm glad they didn't as I think that my social skills would have suffered if I did). She's in the top 85% of her class with her MAP scores, so she's smart and gets the concepts, but she's not the smartest kid in the school smart (which I'm fine with, or course). 

I still have a lot of time, but I don't know what I need to do to help them be prepared because I didn't need the help myself - so I don't have anything to fall back on as "well, this worked for me." Is anyone else in this boat, and is there anything that has helped you give your kids the assistance they will need at times when you didn't need it yourself when you were their age?

Same boat: #2 in my 6A high school, 1500 SAT, coasted through school, bla bla, but my kids are not scholars.  Except along the way I got a PhD instead of going to law school. It was there - taking graduate level classes in math and econometrics - that I realized I was far from the smartest guy in the room. I had to study my ass off just to figure out what hell was going on. It was quite humbling and I learned how to be good student.  

So my advice is to give up your law career and get a PhD in math.  You will then have good study habits to teach your kids.  

  

 

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I have one that is a natural academic high achiever and another that is smart, but a satisficer who is okay coasting in that cohort below the GT crowd. (Second has natural confidence, lack of anxiety, positive disposition and social nature that I'd bet he makes more money in the real world. Unearned confidence of white boys is a super power.)

All purpose advice: Focus on teaching grit. Help them work hard, encourage them to do the grind on their own initiative. That levelto be a chellenge but not too hard) may vary based on the kid, but just teach them that its okay to sometimes have to work hard. Encourage non academic sports and hobbies that don't come easy. Develop those good habits and attitude and they'll be happy and productive adults. Now maybe grit cannot really be taught. I dunno. So I also tell myself kid #2 can be fine with a degree from Texas State or Tech, or be a cop, or use that 529 money too be a linesman or electrician. 

Basically just pinch yourself, because I know *so many* super smart couples with kid(s) that struggle on the spectrum. My theory is assortive mating means 2 smart parents make kids that can be outliers. I pray those kids end up fine too. If you don't have those struggles, parenting is on easy mode.

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On 3/20/2024 at 8:41 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Following up, all is good in casa de Fudge.  The boy got accepted to West Point today.  He's kind of a big deal now.

Before hearing back from West Point, he put in an appeal to UT for ChemE and found out yesterday he got accepted. West Point has always been his first choice, so barring any disaster that’s where he’s going.

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On 3/29/2024 at 8:33 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Before hearing back from West Point, he put in an appeal to UT for ChemE and found out yesterday he got accepted. West Point has always been his first choice, so barring any disaster that’s where he’s going.


why chemE ? (I have a chemE degree)

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On 3/20/2024 at 8:41 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Following up, all is good in casa de Fudge.  The boy got accepted to West Point today.  He's kind of a big deal now.

That's awesome, congrats to your son.  Two of my cousins graduated from West Point.  To say both have led successful lives would be understating it.  One is still serving as a full bird colonel, although I think he has to move to the reserves soon if not already.

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Posted (edited)

If she wants to rush, then Hardin House and SRD. Callaway House is also popular.

HH and SRD fill up quickly. Have your act together when the contracts come out and get them back asap.

Edited by Cap33
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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm not sure when they started this ring ceremony, but it's turned into a pretty big event.  Rings spent the night in the lit tower and then some sort of celebration today with the band, cheerleaders, and probably some speechifying.

20240419_161107.thumb.jpg.67f9aeb8848a1d5bc3bf05b39727dc12.jpg

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Posted (edited)
On 4/9/2024 at 1:54 PM, CoTex said:

Anybody got any recommendations for best girl's dorm?

I dated a girl who lived in Kinsolving.  I have little other experience with women's dorms, but I can wholeheartedly recommend Kinsolving.

EDIT:  perhaps my experiences were not what you are looking for when it comes to your daughter.  

Edited by jimmyjazz
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On 4/9/2024 at 1:54 PM, CoTex said:

Anybody got any recommendations for best girl's dorm?  Hardin House?  Scottish Rite?  Van down by the river?

 

I loved my time at SRD, and it was a little more down to earth than Hardin.
If she’s going to rush and end up a Kappa, Theta or Pi Phi then Hardin, if she’s not rushing or won’t make it into those three, I would recommend SRD.

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On 2/4/2024 at 12:04 AM, alphahydro said:

If you are one of those types of parents, IMO all you should care about is the ceiling associated with the undergrad that ends up on your kids' diploma.  By ceiling, I mean, if you do really well in undergrad at that school, are all postgrad options realistically available to you?  UT undergrad has the same grad school ceiling as Harvard.*  So does UNC, Cal, UCLA, Michigan, UVa, and maybe Florida/Georgia.

In my view, almost all the state schools have the same ceiling if you are an exceptional student. There are just a lot more exceptional students at the better schools.

Anecdote alert:  At our work there was a young Finance guy who graduated from Texas Tech (and played golf there).  He was smart and ambitious and was quickly rising through the ranks.  Decided to get a full-time MBA and did very well on his GMAT. Was offered a full ride to both Rice and Vanderbilt.  

I don't think this is an unusual story. If you have a great GPA and test extremely well, I don't think it matters if you go to UT vs. NC State, Minnesota, South Carolina, UC San Diego, Oregon State,  Arkansas or similar schools. In fact, I think a great GPA at those schools will be seen more positively than an "ok" GPA at UT.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, HookEm said:

In my view, almost all the state schools have the same ceiling if you are an exceptional student. There are just a lot more exceptional students at the better schools.

Anecdote alert:  At our work there was a young Finance guy who graduated from Texas Tech (and played golf there).  He was smart and ambitious and was quickly rising through the ranks.  Decided to get a full-time MBA and did very well on his GMAT. Was offered a full ride to both Rice and Vanderbilt.  

I don't think this is an unusual story. If you have a great GPA and test extremely well, I don't think it matters if you go to UT vs. NC State, Minnesota, South Carolina, UC San Diego, Oregon State,  Arkansas or similar schools. In fact, I think a great GPA at those schools will be seen more positively than an "ok" GPA at UT.

It's been said a lot, but bears repeating:

You can course correct by going to grad school and going "upmarket" if you don't get into a great school from the jump, like your buddy who went to Tech undergrad and then Jones MBA.

What is kind of a blackeye however, is the opposite. I know many people who have ivy undergrads who "only" went to UT law or SMU law or UGA law or Goizueta MBA, etc. Those schools would be great for most people, but when you are the elite undergrad it's viewed as "wait, why did you have to go "downmarket"? what's wrong? do you kind of suck?" and we all know exceptions and there are reasons (e.g. full rides, close to home to a sick parent, etc.) but that's the view.

Edited by BeardIP
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5 hours ago, HookEm said:

In my view, almost all the state schools have the same ceiling if you are an exceptional student. There are just a lot more exceptional students at the better schools.

Anecdote alert:  At our work there was a young Finance guy who graduated from Texas Tech (and played golf there).  He was smart and ambitious and was quickly rising through the ranks.  Decided to get a full-time MBA and did very well on his GMAT. Was offered a full ride to both Rice and Vanderbilt.  

I don't think this is an unusual story. If you have a great GPA and test extremely well, I don't think it matters if you go to UT vs. NC State, Minnesota, South Carolina, UC San Diego, Oregon State,  Arkansas or similar schools. In fact, I think a great GPA at those schools will be seen more positively than an "ok" GPA at UT.

We might be talking about two different things, but I would say there is definitely a ceiling when it comes to the best of the best graduate programs.  

for example: https://law.yale.edu/admissions-financial-aid/jd-admissions/profiles-statistics/undergraduate-institutions-represented-yls-2020-24

from your list, in the past 5 years, no one was accepted to YLS from NC State, Minnesota, South Carolina, or Arkansas.  (or if they were, they were not attending when this list was compiled).

You don't have to go very far down the US News Best colleges list before acceptances dry up.  UC Davis, ranked 28th nationally, sent zero kids to Yale law in the past 5 years.  Georgia Tech at 33 -> 0.  By the time you get out of the top 50, Minnesota at 53, zero; William and Mary (tied 53; zero) Stony Brook zero. 

Any between 75-85, you have only two schools that sent kids to Yale law in the last 5 years (UC Riverside and UC Santa Cruz).

It's nice that they took someone from Oregon State, but that kid does not represent Oregon State grads each year.  he represents all the graduating students at what 20? peer schools over a 5 year period.

https://bulletin.yale.edu/sites/default/files/yale-law-school-2019-2020.pdf

Page 116 shows the breakdown by undergrad college for the last 3 admission cycles at Yale Law. 

These are the undergrad institutions from which the law school admitted, on average, 5 or more students each year: 

  • Brown (5 per year)
  • Chicago (6 per year)
  • Columbia (11 per year)
  • Cornell (6 per year)
  • Dartmouth (7 per year)
  • Harvard (19 per year)
  • Princeton (10 per year)
  • Stanford (7 per year)
  • Penn (5 per year)
  • Yale (30 per year)

Here are the places that send 3-4 per year:

  • Duke
  • Georgetown
  • Berkeley

The only other public school with 1+ kids per class were:

  • UCLA (5 kids in 3 classes)
  • Uconn (5 in 3 classes)
  • Florida (4)
  • Georgia (3)
  • Maryland (3)
  • Michigan (8)
  • UNC (5)
  • UVa (7)
  • UW (3)

If my math is correct, the top 10 ivy type schools fill about half the class. 

After Florida/Georgia/UW, you could be the best applicant from your undergrad and still get denied. 

Going back to your list.  in the 2018, 2017, and 2016 cycles, there were zero kids from NC State, Minnesota, South Carolina, Oregon State, or Arkansas who attended Yale law.  There were 2 from UC San Diego.

If you aren't going to a top 30-50 type school, you could be the best applicant from your school in the past few cycles and still not have a shot.   That's what I mean by ceiling. 

Yale law is obviously very selective, but I think the same trend applies at other top grad programs. 

You see the same thing at Harvard Law, which has a much larger class.  Last year, from your list, zero from NC State, South Carolina, Oregon State, or Arkansas.  https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

https://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/class-profile/Pages/undergraduate-institutions.aspx. HBS class of 2015- zero from NC State or Arkansas. 

I didn't see anything from med schools. But my understanding is there are similar patterns at the very top PhD programs in the hard sciences. 

HUGE CAVEAT - I personally don't care about this stuff - my point in the original post was only that if you are the type of parent who does care, your kid is better off a Florida/Georgia/UT/Michigan after community college than going to Williams or Amherst.  using the info above, I may have been exaggerating a bit, but Williams put 4 kids at YLS over 3 years; Amherst 6.   Michigan put 8, Florida 4, Georgia 3.  I would rather try to be the top law applicant from Georgia than from Williams.  But that's just me.

To go back to my original point - Georgia has a similar ceiling to Williams, imo.  But I wouldn't put Arky, Oregon State, NC State in that same category when it comes to the ceiling at the top top top grad programs. 

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random.  I live outside Texas. 

my son was wearing a Texas hoodie to school and another kid asked him about.  that other kid is going to UT next year.  Said she's getting in state tuition because her dad bought or rented a place in Texas 2 years ago (even though he doesn't live there). 

does that sound legit?  is residency based on the parents or the kid?  I would think UT would see her transcripts from an out of state high school and figure out she didn't live in Texas last year. 

just curious

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Posted (edited)

if they have divorced parents, one might declare a Texas primary residence for the prior 12 months. I'm not sure if that has to be the primary parent (probably?), but I imagine reasonable coparenting ex's can figure out how to play the right cards for their shared child. Just decide who is going to declare the dependent on the 2023 1040. No university is going to asm for divorce records, just tax stuff. Declaring the TX residence as primary might be a little sketchy, but probably not too much of a paperwork burden. I think you can also show TX residency as a parent if you own a TX business; or maybe if parent is married to someone who is a TX resident. 

Edited by CleverNickname
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random.  I live outside Texas. 
my son was wearing a Texas hoodie to school and another kid asked him about.  that other kid is going to UT next year.  Said she's getting in state tuition because her dad bought or rented a place in Texas 2 years ago (even though he doesn't live there). 
does that sound legit?  is residency based on the parents or the kid?  I would think UT would see her transcripts from an out of state high school and figure out she didn't live in Texas last year. 
just curious

Most states base allow residency on either parent’s legal residence.
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, alphahydro said:

If you aren't going to a top 30-50 type school, you could be the best applicant from your school in the past few cycles and still not have a shot.   That's what I mean by ceiling. 

Good information. Interesting.  I think the data shows that you have a vastly better chance at getting in to a great graduate program (like Yale Law) if you go to an elite college. 

But, as I mentioned it is still possible to get in from a less respected program.  Students from the following schools have gotten in since 2020...

  • West Texas A&M
  • Oklahoma Baptist
  • Youngstown State
  • Utica College
  • Louisville
  • Houston

I agree with everything you said though.  If it is important to you that your child get into a truly elite graduate program, they will be swimming upstream if they are trying to get there from a weak school.

Edited by HookEm
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This thread is really into that whole Yale thing.

Yale thing?

Yeah, Yale thing.

What whole Yale thing?

Well, for one thing, I think posters here are probably closet homosexuals who do a lot of cocaine. That whole "Yale thing."

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Posted (edited)

I'd question what "elite" really means.  If you want to become a Federal judge, or sit on the Supreme Court, then yeah, an Ivy League law degree is probably a requirement.  (Amy Coney Barrett is the exception that proves the rule, among a few others.)

If you want to practice at a top law firm?  I be surprised if a JD from Texas or Northwestern or UCLA, etc. would be a hindrance.

In my world (engineering), I mostly expect at least a master's degree for anything beyond an entry level hire, but if that degree is from Colorado or UNC or Arizona it doesn't necessarily put a candidate behind someone who came out of Stanford or Texas or Michigan.

Edited by jimmyjazz
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On 4/19/2024 at 4:16 PM, Jerry Callo said:

I'm not sure when they started this ring ceremony, but it's turned into a pretty big event.  Rings spent the night in the lit tower and then some sort of celebration today with the band, cheerleaders, and probably some speechifying.

20240419_161107.thumb.jpg.67f9aeb8848a1d5bc3bf05b39727dc12.jpg

Too aggy for comfort.

On 4/19/2024 at 6:02 PM, jimmyjazz said:

I dated a girl who lived in Kinsolving.  I have little other experience with women's dorms, but I can wholeheartedly recommend Kinsolving.

EDIT:  perhaps my experiences were not what you are looking for when it comes to your daughter.  

Didn't you go to college like 40 years ago?  Shit's probably changed since then.

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From a hiring perspective, I think there is a lot of regional bias.  Everyone in Texas knows the hierarchy of Texas schools.  If I get a resume for a junior position and the person went to Texas, I view it differently than if they went to Texas State. But honestly, I have no idea if Clemson, South Carolina or College of Charleston is the better school.  Is Minnesota better than Iowa? No idea. If someone in Florida is hiring and two candidates have a Texas Tech and a Virginia Tech degree are they differentiated at all?

I saw the other day that Florida is ranked higher than Texas. That surprised me as I didn't realize they were that competitive.  

I have gotten where I really don't like the university rankings honestly.  They don't matter for the most part in the "real world", but it creates a huge amount of angst and stress for our kids.  And I think a lot of kids make bad decisions to attend "better" schools, but end up with worse degrees because they decide to go Liberal Arts somewhere like Texas vs. getting an engineering degree somewhere like Houston.

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13 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Is Minnesota better than Iowa?

Absolutely.

 

Quote

No idea. If someone in Florida is hiring and two candidates have a Texas Tech and a Virginia Tech degree are they differentiated at all?

VaTech is superior in most disciplines.

 

Quote

And I think a lot of kids make bad decisions to attend "better" schools, but end up with worse degrees because they decide to go Liberal Arts somewhere like Texas vs. getting an engineering degree somewhere like Houston.

Well, there is that thing where some kids don't want to major in engineering.

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I've never hired someone based solely on what school they went to.  Attending and succeeding at a top school will give you a good chance to reach the interview stage, but once the interviews start everyone is on a level field.  If you weren't considered good enough to do the work then you wouldn't be getting an interview.  At that point it's more how will you fit in with the team, do you come across as this job is beneath you or do you have a good attitude about it, etc. etc. etc.

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9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, there is that thing where some kids don't want to major in engineering.

That isn't my point.  My point is that kids feel pressured to go to the better school, even if it means studying something that isn't what they are interested in.

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1 minute ago, HookEm said:

That isn't my point.  My point is that kids feel pressured to go to the better school, even if it means studying something that isn't what they are interested in.

Well, I don't know the numbers, but I doubt too many kids who want to (for instance) major in engineering decide to major in English at UT because they couldn't get into Cockrell.  I'm sure it happens, though.  Some of them might think they could eventually transfer within UT and find out later that's not very common.

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15 hours ago, Dennis Taylor said:

I don't see how the high school they attended isn't what decides it Tea Gossip GIF

Kids of divorced parents don't generally get to pick which parent they live with.  It's a good thing states don't hold that against them in this instance.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, there is that thing where some kids don't want to major in engineering.

For real, the wife and I make 3x the average household salary from our region with degrees in History and Spanish. Sure, plenty of people want more than what we make and can get that with STEM, but you can also live comfortably with whatever degree interests you (which isn't @HookEm 's point but still worth noting).

Edited by SimonBolivar
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2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, I don't know the numbers, but I doubt too many kids who want to (for instance) major in engineering decide to major in English at UT because they couldn't get into Cockrell.  I'm sure it happens, though.  Some of them might think they could eventually transfer within UT and find out later that's not very common.

I started in Aerospace Engineering at UT, but hated it.  My lack of interest, and my partying, led to me failing out.  After I got my shit together in the Navy I came back and got my degree in film.

12 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

For real, the wife and I make 3x the average household salary from our region with degrees in History and Spanish. Sure, plenty of people want more than what we make and can get that with STEM, but you can also live comfortably with whatever degree interests you (which isn't @HookEm 's point but still worth noting).

Exactly.  I'd rather have UT degree in any discipline as opposed to specialized degree, engineering in the examples presented, from Houston.

With an English, History, Spanish, of in my case Film degree from UT you can always go to good law school or get your MBA if you want to make more money.  I did the later (also at UT) and it's worked out well.

I don't think the same would have been true if I went to Cougar High.  But obviously I can't prove it.

3 minutes ago, South Austin said:

True, but they both smell like cow shit.

But in Blacksburg you can quickly escape to the mountains...in Lubbock you can quickly escape to Muleshoe.

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I lived in Blacksburg for a while when my dad was an engineering prof there.  It's a lovely little town in a beautiful part of the country.

I've never lived in Lubbock, but I've been there.  I'm confident nobody could confuse the two.

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I view the schools as falling into tiers. 

with undergrads, it's something like

  1. top 5/6 (harvard, princeton, yale, etc)
  2. rest of the ivies plus a few other top schools
  3. next tranche, including the top public schools through Georgia/Texas-ish
  4. and so on

First, the same school might fall into different tiers depending on the major, etc.

Second, at each school, there are levels.  Say: top handful of kids at a given school, top 5%, top 20%, bottom half.   Yes, the top kid in tier 3 does better than a bottom half kid in tier 1, but comparing top kid to top kid in different tiers, there's a difference in outcomes.  If you compare outcomes across levels between two schools and they are roughly the same, that's how you know those two schools are in the same tier. 

Third, I'm personally not a big fan of tier 2.  I think you are better off in tier 3 in you can get in state tuition (unless you have money to burn).  My original post was: if my kid didn't get into any tier ones and missed the local, in-state tuition tier 3, but got into a tier 2, i would send them to community college, then have them transfer to the local tier 3 before i would pay for the tier 2.  

Finally, I agree that if you are at your final destination school (professional school or undergrad if not getting an advanced degree), in my mind you should (rule of thumb) go tier 1 or best local/regional school, because of the regional bias and networking benefits. 

going back to the yale law data.  basically the top 25/30 kids at Yale/Harvard undergrad get the same results as the top kid from Florida/Georgia/UNC every year. 

If you had paid for your kid to go to a tier 2 school like Amherst or Williams, they still have to end up as the top 1-2 applicants from their school, same as if you had sent them to UF, UGA, UM, etc. 

If you go to a tier 4 or below school (much below FL/GA/UNC), you could be the top applicant from your school that year and have basically zero chance at Harvard or Yale Law, Harvard Business, etc, in a given year (or in a multiple year span).      

again, my only point was, a lot of parents i know are pushing their kids into tier 2 because they think it puts them in a better position to get into a good grad school and i personally wouldn't if i had access to in state tuition at a tier 3 public.  maybe im just cheap.   but i don't see the appeal of the williams and amhersts 

 

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19 hours ago, DixonHur said:

in Lubbock you can quickly escape to Muleshoe.

Lol.  I'm from Muleshoe.  It was actually a great place to grow up... way better than the Austin suburbs I have subjected my kids to.

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On 5/13/2024 at 9:35 AM, HookEm said:

I don't think this is an unusual story. If you have a great GPA and test extremely well, I don't think it matters if you go to UT vs. NC State, Minnesota, South Carolina, UC San Diego, Oregon State,  Arkansas or similar schools. In fact, I think a great GPA at those schools will be seen more positively than an "ok" GPA at UT.

I'm glad I never had an interest in graduate school because I would have been screwed.  My GPA at UT was really low... very low.  Like, just made it out.  The only person I know of who had a lower GPA at UT is our CEO.  If you're not going into graduate studies or engineering (you know, aggy bridge-builders), I cannot overemphasize the importance of using college to help you build your social and influencing skills.  Personality can be a cheat code, so to speak.  Not that mine is a winning personality but you know what I mean.  I've met a lot of aggies because of what I do and some of their personalities are stunningly bland.  That impacts future career prospects.  

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3 hours ago, HookEm said:

Lol.  I'm from Muleshoe.  It was actually a great place to grow up... way better than the Austin suburbs I have subjected my kids to.

Only been through Muleshoe a handful of times, on the way to New Mexico, and every time we drove through a literal cloud of particalized manure.

I don't know how you survived.

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6 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Only been through Muleshoe a handful of times, on the way to New Mexico, and every time we drove through a literal cloud of particalized manure.

I don't know how you survived.

If the wind is blowing in the wrong direction, it smells like a massive public restroom full of overflowing piss troughs.

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