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Pancho

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I’ll say I’m not going to reserve judgment until the entire story is out, but I just don’t understand why police feel they need to do this:

 

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What if Charles Manson was right with his whole Helter Skelter race war apocalypse prediction, but just forgot to borrow the 1 and carry the 4 and he missed the year by 41 and it's 2020, or something? These instances are so absurd that I'm willing to entertain any explanation at this point of why police continue to act in these ways in September of 2020.

Edited by Rougarou

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I'm beginning to subscribe to the theory that they really don't want intelligent people to be cops.  

And I don't think these types of cops understand that they are pushing people way past their limits, to the point where you're going to see bystanders intervening.  Whether it's a violent intervention or not, I don't know.

Edited by atomheartbevo

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Just the system working as designed, and as we clearly want it to, exhibit infinity.

Yeah, I want to see the whole story....but come the fuck on. That was brutal.

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, I want to see the whole story....but come the fuck on. That was brutal.

All I've seen is that he was a passenger, the driver was pulled over, driver may or may not have had a license, the deputies began asking passengers for ID, he didn't have an ID and/or asked why he had to show it since he did nothing wrong, and then shit went off the rails.

Sheriff's statement: "After being made aware of a video posted on social media involving a Deputy using physical force on a man, Sheriff Victor Hill ordered his entire Internal Affairs Unit to come in and begin an investigation that has been on going since 8pm. The Sheriff has ordered that the Deputy involved be placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation."

So if the internal affairs unit is under the sheriff, and they probably all belong to the same union...yeah.  Cops wonder why the public is losing trust in them.

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Yea whole story here?  It’s usually not I was a passenger in a car that got pulled over and end up resisting arrest for no reason I wouldn’t think but who knows these days.  

Edited by Hook1997

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Something something... stop resisting and this wouldn’t have happened... something something... both sides acted badly but dude on the ground probably did something worse... something something... this isn’t the whole story here...

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46 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I'm beginning to subscribe to the theory that they really don't want intelligent people to be cops.  

And I don't think these types of cops understand that they are pushing people way past their limits, to the point where you're going to see bystanders intervening.  Whether it's a violent intervention or not, I don't know.

I have been wondering how long it will be before a bystander opens fire on the cops.  One of these incidents is going to happen in a neighborhood where the police will be outgunned, and shit will hit the fan.

I am not advocating for that to happen.  I hope that it won't, but believe that it will. 

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29 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

I have been wondering how long it will be before a bystander opens fire on the cops.  One of these incidents is going to happen in a neighborhood where the police will be outgunned, and shit will hit the fan.

I am not advocating for that to happen.  I hope that it won't, but believe that it will. 

Yeah, that seems bad idea jeans, but I can understand it. Who gives a shit if the passenger of a Lyft drive doesn't have his ID.

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1 hour ago, Hook1997 said:

Yea whole story here?  It’s usually not I was a passenger in a car that got pulled over and end up resisting arrest for no reason I wouldn’t think but who knows these days.  

At this point, the police have lost the benefit of the doubt.

There's a clear pattern of behavior on their side.

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5 hours ago, Scheiss Meister said:

I have been wondering how long it will be before a bystander opens fire on the cops.  One of these incidents is going to happen in a neighborhood where the police will be outgunned, and shit will hit the fan.

I am not advocating for that to happen.  I hope that it won't, but believe that it will. 

That's already pretty much happened. Cops have been ambushed, and shot/killed in several incidents in the last 12-24 months. 3 Chicago cops were attacked, and dragged down a street just the other day during a protest/riot.  I do not subscribe, 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Edited by Onboard 2.0

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6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I'm beginning to subscribe to the theory that they really don't want intelligent people to be cops.  

And I don't think these types of cops understand that they are pushing people way past their limits, to the point where you're going to see bystanders intervening.  Whether it's a violent intervention or not, I don't know.

It’s because you don’t need a college degree and the pay is shit.

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6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Just the system working as designed, and as we clearly want it to, exhibit infinity.

Yeah, I want to see the whole story....but come the fuck on. That was brutal.

You know how I roll on this shit Brisket.  You and I know deep down what this was, but that's our feeling, not fact.  He didn't, I'm sure, attack those cops with a box cutter (or something ridiculously unlikely like that), but if he did then that changes the perspective.  While I'm not for giving cops the heaping piles of benefit of the doubt that they so crave alongside their daily "They call me Hero" IV drips, we still do need to know the whole story.

Lest we become them.

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There’s no way to make a fair judgement without knowing all of the facts, but the line that the guy had no ID and was wondering why the fuck he suddenly became a target seems pretty plausible when considering that most cops are extremely offended when their authority is questioned to any degree. It should be okay to be upset when cops overstep their boundaries.

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1 minute ago, Texas_Rocks said:

There’s no way to make a fair judgement without knowing all of the facts, but the line that the guy had no ID and was wondering why the fuck he suddenly became a target seems pretty plausible when considering that most cops are extremely offended when their authority is questioned to any degree. It should be okay to be upset when cops overstep their boundaries.

You do so at your own peril.

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Quote

but the line that the guy had no ID and was wondering why the fuck he suddenly became a target seems pretty plausible when considering that most cops are extremely offended when their authority is questioned to any degree.

Yep, they do that kind of shit and make all sorts of assumptions which, in their minds, gives them license to do whatever they want to the "suspect".  Pretty sure this is the case here.  "Pretty sure" ain't fact though and it's problematic, imo, to adopt their shitty order of operations in the opposite direction while hoping to hold any moral high ground.

That would be illusory at best.

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6 hours ago, Scheiss Meister said:

I have been wondering how long it will be before a bystander opens fire on the cops.  One of these incidents is going to happen in a neighborhood where the police will be outgunned, and shit will hit the fan.

I am not advocating for that to happen.  I hope that it won't, but believe that it will. 

Happened last night in LA to two cops just sitting in their patrol car

Edited by Sawbonz

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It has been happening all over the country.

I don't get the "wonder how long it will take" thing?  This isn't new.

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7 hours ago, YChang said:

Something something... stop resisting and this wouldn’t have happened... something something... both sides acted badly but dude on the ground probably did something worse... something something... this isn’t the whole story here...

Hey, listen, I'm just as against police brutality as the rest of you. But the cops said that the guy that was pinned on the ground once tried marijuana. So, all I'm saying is that he's not the angel y'all are making him out to be. 

Edited by HornOnTheBayou

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Yep, I'm quite sure that while the first Hero tried to pin the "perp" down the other was standing close by with his special gloves and PreCog interface.  "Let him HAVE it Johnson!!!"...

 

minority-report-ui.jpg

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8 hours ago, Scheiss Meister said:

I have been wondering how long it will be before a bystander opens fire on the cops.  One of these incidents is going to happen in a neighborhood where the police will be outgunned, and shit will hit the fan.

I am not advocating for that to happen.  I hope that it won't, but believe that it will. 

If you see a random person appearing to kill someone else, you would seem to be justified in using deadly force to prevent that killing. I agree it’s a bad idea to start second guessing the police and the situation but it’s not a stretch to think this could happen.

If one citizen had tackled the cop kneeling on George Floyd, Floyd would most likely be alive today. Now that citizen would have caught a horrible beating and most likely be facing serious felony charges at the moment.

i hope we don’t see citizens start to interfere with arrests as it will turn the problems to a 11.

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I know that cops have been ambushed in their cars, or like in Dallas a few years ago.  That's not the type of action that I am talking about.  What I am wondering about is not an individual deciding to take out some cops.  I'm talking about a sudden, unplanned, immediate response to a situation like this.  Someone sees their neighbor, whom they know to be a decent person, being abused like this and tries to defend them with deadly force.  It seems to me that those kind of situations have the greatest potential to spiral out of control, or start a broader conflict.

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Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If you see a random person appearing to kill someone else, you would seem to be justified in using deadly force to prevent that killing. I agree it’s a bad idea to start second guessing the police and the situation but it’s not a stretch to think this could happen.

If one citizen had tackled the cop kneeling on George Floyd, Floyd would most likely be alive today. Now that citizen would have caught a horrible beating and most likely be facing serious felony charges at the moment.

i hope we don’t see citizens start to interfere with arrests as it will turn the problems to a 11.

No, you'd have mulitple dead people. You physically attack a cop, and it's the death blow for one of you.

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Just now, Scheiss Meister said:

I know that cops have been ambushed in their cars, or like in Dallas a few years ago.  That's not the type of action that I am talking about.  What I am wondering about is not an individual deciding to take out some cops.  I'm talking about a sudden, unplanned, immediate response to a situation like this.  Someone sees their neighbor, whom they know to be a decent person, being abused like this and tries to defend them with deadly force.  It seems to me that those kind of situations have the greatest potential to spiral out of control, or start a broader conflict.

See: post response above.

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1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

i hope we don’t see citizens start to interfere with arrests as it will turn the problems to a 11.

The issue is that the police have been acting as an occupying force in our communities. They don't give a single fucking fuck what their communities they "serve" think or want. They murder people in the streets and thumb their nose at the judicial system. 

Shouldn't be surprising that folks who are on the brink of eviction and watch the constant stream of police brutality just don't give a shit anymore, and want to get even. 

The social contract is broken

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8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The issue is that the police have been acting as an occupying force in our communities. They don't give a single fucking fuck what their communities they "serve" think or want. They murder people in the streets and thumb their nose at the judicial system. 

Shouldn't be surprising that folks who are on the brink of eviction and watch the constant stream of police brutality just don't give a shit anymore, and want to get even. 

The social contract is broken

Just a question, how many citizens have even known what a social contract is let alone been willing to live by one ?  This in no way excuses killing folks in the street because they don't toe your line.

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3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Just a question, how many citizens have even known what a social contract is let alone been willing to live by one ?  This in no way excuses killing folks in the street because they don't toe your line.

It's not an excuse, and I don't condone it.

But imagine yourself with a couple fewer zero's at the end of your paycheck while facing eviction and being unable to cover even a visit to a doctor. All while hearing nothing but how were the greatest country in the world and how our COPS ARE HEROS. 

Some folks like you revel in the doublethink and doublespeak, some folks reject it. 

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2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It's not an excuse, and I don't condone it.

But imagine yourself with a couple fewer zero's at the end of your paycheck while facing eviction and being unable to cover even a visit to a doctor. All while hearing nothing but how were the greatest country in the world and how our COPS ARE HEROS. 

Some folks like you revel in the doublethink and doublespeak, some folks reject it. 

Really ?  I do ?  Gosh, you just don't know nearly as much as you think you do.

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9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I'm beginning to subscribe to the theory that they really don't want intelligent people to be cops.  

 

 

I had a Houston PD officer in my class a few years ago.  Now he was already on the force, but wanted to get his associates because it was a pay bump. 

An Associates degree.  A pay bump.

He was smart, I’ll give him that.  Anytime we talked about race, equality, etc. in class, he was at least saying the right things.  He even told me to give him a call if I ever got a ticket and he’d take care of it. 

But man, there are police officers who don’t even have an Associates degree.  Jesus Christ. 

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2 hours ago, Bigbend1812 said:

When the fuck do you have to carry ID ? 

-if you’re not Mexican looking?

Edited by Doc Reeves

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13 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

I had a Houston PD officer in my class a few years ago.  Now he was already on the force, but wanted to get his associates because it was a pay bump. 

An Associates degree.  A pay bump.

He was smart, I’ll give him that.  Anytime we talked about race, equality, etc. in class, he was at least saying the right things.  He even told me to give him a call if I ever got a ticket and he’d take care of it. 

But man, there are police officers who don’t even have an Associates degree.  Jesus Christ. 

The current situation (real and perceived) most likely is discouraging good, future police officers from signing up. I can the see the problem becoming worse in the upcoming years.

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4 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The current situation (real and perceived) most likely is discouraging good, future police officers from signing up. I can the see the problem becoming worse in the upcoming years.

Yeah, why the fuck would anyone with ANY better alternatives choose to be a cop right now? There are dozens of other public service professions out there that don't come with all the baggage for those who want give back.

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It's a job that presents a pretty easy path to high 5 figure, low 6 figure income for those that are not highly educated. You get what you're going to get.

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2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Happened last night in LA to two cops just sitting in their patrol car

That was some random nut, and the cops were sitting there doing nothing.   This is more about getting close to a situation where bystanders get physically involved and intervene between cops and whoever they are restraining.  

Cops talk about how they are the thin blue line between society and lawlessness, etc., but their badges represent a pretty thin line in keeping bystanders from intervening.  There's a lot of cops right now that don't seem to understand that eventually, the crowd will stop fearing their badge.  They have an "us vs them" mentality, but they are so used to people fearing their authority, that they've forgotten how outnumbered they truly are.

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1 hour ago, Scheiss Meister said:

I know that cops have been ambushed in their cars, or like in Dallas a few years ago.  That's not the type of action that I am talking about.  What I am wondering about is not an individual deciding to take out some cops.  I'm talking about a sudden, unplanned, immediate response to a situation like this.  Someone sees their neighbor, whom they know to be a decent person, being abused like this and tries to defend them with deadly force.  It seems to me that those kind of situations have the greatest potential to spiral out of control, or start a broader conflict.

And it will become a broader conflict - more and more people will become emboldened to act.  And the cops will have an even stronger "us vs them" mentality, and things will spiral out of control.  And we just think things are bad now with the riots.   Police departments will start ordering ED-111's, and just wait until the 200 series arrives.  I hear the 209 is off the charts.

It's not helped that a shitload of us in this country are very distanced from all of this, and our only encounters with cops are speeding tickets or dealing with the asshole LEOs along the border.

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1 hour ago, Scheiss Meister said:

I know that cops have been ambushed in their cars, or like in Dallas a few years ago.  That's not the type of action that I am talking about.  What I am wondering about is not an individual deciding to take out some cops.  I'm talking about a sudden, unplanned, immediate response to a situation like this.  Someone sees their neighbor, whom they know to be a decent person, being abused like this and tries to defend them with deadly force.  It seems to me that those kind of situations have the greatest potential to spiral out of control, or start a broader conflict.

You know who should be doing that?  The "good" cops.

I know, I know, fantasy...

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1 hour ago, Captainant said:

The issue is that the police have been acting as an occupying force in our communities. They don't give a single fucking fuck what their communities they "serve" think or want.

That's a huge issue in and of itself.  Many cops don't live in the communities they police, they have an extremely comfortable and stable lifestyle compared to poor communities - they aren't worried about where their next paycheck is coming from, and they have a union that has their back no matter what.

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And it will become a broader conflict - more and more people will become emboldened to act.  And the cops will have an even stronger "us vs them" mentality, and things will spiral out of control.  And we just think things are bad now with the riots.   Police departments will start ordering ED-111's, and just wait until the 200 series arrives.  I hear the 209 is off the charts.
It's not helped that a shitload of us in this country are very distanced from all of this, and our only encounters with cops are speeding tickets or dealing with the asshole LEOs along the border.

This. Shit is only going to get worse. The cops had already decided that we the people are all potential enemies as if they were patrolling Fallujah; this only reinforces that.
You know who should be doing that?  The "good" cops.
I know, I know, fantasy...

Expecting agents of the state sworn to uphold the law to intervene when the law is being broken in a way that harms a person....is too much to ask. That’s where we are.

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1 hour ago, Pancho said:

 

I had a Houston PD officer in my class a few years ago.  Now he was already on the force, but wanted to get his associates because it was a pay bump. 

An Associates degree.  A pay bump.

He was smart, I’ll give him that.  Anytime we talked about race, equality, etc. in class, he was at least saying the right things.  He even told me to give him a call if I ever got a ticket and he’d take care of it. 

But man, there are police officers who don’t even have an Associates degree.  Jesus Christ. 

I am surprised that anyone would be surprised by this.

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29 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The cops had already decided that we the people are all potential enemies as if they were patrolling Fallujah; this only reinforces that.

If only;  how do the rules of engagement compare?

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24 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

To drink.

Not if you're armybrat.  The last time he was questioned when it came to drinking, it was during prohibition, and the proprietors were making sure he wasn't a cop.

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It's the attorney of the guy, so I question it a bit, but I have yet to see the cops come out with their side of things, and usually if they have a strong story to defend themselves, it's already out there.  And I have yet to see any witnesses or the cops say he was anything but a passenger.

Also, Lyft was correct that it was not during an official Lyft ride - the driver was off-duty.  I've seen this plenty of times - Lyft or Uber drivers who are not on duty, but willing to take you somewhere for $20 or whatever.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/12/us/clayton-county-deputy-leave-physical-force/index.html

Quote

Speaking at a news conference Saturday night outside the Clayton County jail, attorney Shean Williams said the incident occurred after Walker, his girlfriend and one of his children had returned a rental car. 

They approached a rideshare vehicle and negotiated a ride home at an agreed-upon rate with the driver, who was off-duty at the time, Williams told CNN.

Quote

The car was then pulled over for what was described as a tail-light violation, according to Williams.

Williams said that deputies demanded that Walker show his ID, but he did not have it with him. The deputies became upset when he asked why they needed the ID, the attorney said. Walker told the deputies he didn't do anything wrong before they told him to exit the car, according to Williams, leading to the officers' use of force.

 

 

Edited by atomheartbevo

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