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Internet rabbit hole. Mexico's cartel war.


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On 2/26/2021 at 11:29 AM, crash_davis said:

and avocados, cilantro and any other goods produced by farms and factories in the areas that they control.

But that money probably pales compared to the cartels' main source of income, drugs. 


Was watching a show on Vice recently. The cartels have gotten into the fentanyl game hard. They had been sourcing the chemicals to make it from overseas, but are now at the point where they are (or will be soon) making their own. 
 

Bad juju. 
 

You can legalize things, but they'll just shift to what’s still illegal.

For example, coke gets legalized again. The cartels still have meth, heroin, fentanyl, and other stuff to push. 
 

I doubt coke gets a legal nod anyway, but even then I doubt any opiate based stuff does. They’ll always have a product, and they stay ahead of the game too. 
 

 

 

On 2/26/2021 at 11:32 AM, Deej said:

This is where the real money is at...

 

Canels-Original-Website.jpg


Hey meeeeester, chiclet? Chiclet meeeester?

 

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On 2/26/2021 at 6:24 PM, Orale said:

I wonder if U.S. military operations (with Mexican gov acquiescence) would be able to drive out the cartels. Or would it just be a modern version of Viet Nam and Afghanistan. 

This idea gets floated every once in a while, and it is just a monumentally horrible one for innumerable reasons. And the Mexican government would never acquiesce, not only because it's immensely unpopular in terms of public opinion, but because the cartels hold influence there too.

The best thing the US could do is legalize the use, possession, distribution, sale, and growth of weed (honestly, all drugs to really solve the problem, but I know we're not legalizing coke any time soon). That, and cracking down hard on the flow of guns from the US to Mexico. The latter is probably not realistic, saying anything beyond that is CR. That's not a silver bullet but it's the only thing we could do that would have an immediate impact. It's a long term economic development problem in Mexico. Narco is the best job most young people can hope to get. Until that changes, nothing else will.

Edited by gmr548
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1 hour ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Thanks for the recommendation, I kind of want to start with the second book, as the time frame is a little more interesting. Would it be a mistake to skip the first one? 

They're all good.  And, although they are fiction, they are historically accurate and build on one another. or assume some familiarity with prior events and characters.  So I think you should start with the first one.  I don't think you'll be bored.

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On 2/26/2021 at 4:58 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

They are every bit as evil as ISIS but they are not stupid,  and they know they are incapable of coping with the hornet's nest of drone strikes that would follow. The last thing they want is to provoke the US military into action. Rule #1 in the narco bible: Never draw heat. (Especially if said heat takes the form of precision air strikes.)

If the US went to war with Mexico, which is the scenario you are outlining, it would make the ME seem like Granada.  It would be like sharing a border with Afghanistan, with the Afghanis in every major city.  Integrated vertically and horizontally into virtually every facet of our economy, and with the ability to attack directly the cities, towns, and families of the soldiers sent to apprehend them.  Given direction at a moments notice.  I can't think of a better way to unite the cartels more than direct, foreign military intervention.  These drugs are not made in factories, they are made in virtually every small village in the country.  

And that is after casualties in the millions if they decided to poison their supply with fatal ingredients (a scenario Ed learned was a very real contingency many cartels outlined that was later discovered) that would send millions to every hospital in the country virtually overnight.  We lost hundreds of thousands to COVID, but not at one time.  This would be as if COVID had the lethality of small pox and there was no vaccination.  It would cripple the US almost instantly.    

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On 2/26/2021 at 6:58 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

They are every bit as evil as ISIS but they are not stupid,  and they know they are incapable of coping with the hornet's nest of drone strikes that would follow. The last thing they want is to provoke the US military into action. Rule #1 in the narco bible: Never draw heat. (Especially if said heat takes the form of precision air strikes.)

That's why for the most part with some isolated incidents, they have avoided carrying out their war in the heavy tourist areas although the above discussion about Acapulco is the exception.   I think their demise was related to being close to El Chapo's home base.   True some stuff has gone down in Cabo, and Cancun/Playa del Carmen, but it was more of a  tourist making the wrong turn at the wrong time vs a direct target on them.  For the most part.....

   I have this discussion with folks unfamiliar with the border areas and tell them I would certainly avoid the larger cities on the border like Reynosa, Nuevo Laredo and Juarez.    But a smaller town like Nuevo Progreso where you can walk across and everything is within a six block area is perfectly fine to visit with the usual safeguards you might take on this side of the border even in "safe" neighborhoods or sections of Downtown (fill in the American City), save you can't carry a weapon .  The major draw is medical tourism and the day tripper just wanting to do a little shopping and have an inexpensive meal and a couple of drinks  and the last thing the cartels want is a bunch of American Senior Citizens wintering in the RGV from all over the US getting caught in a cross fire.  Even the most 'hands off Mexico" American politician  would have a hard time not being able to respond to a  bunch of US Olds being killed just within a mile or two of US soil.  Reynosa and Matamoros for example don't rely on this type of tourism like they once did thanks to them becoming more manufacturing centers, thus you have more wealth in those cities which is attractive to the cartels for several reasons.    

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Posted (edited)

^ lots of folks in the 915 will go to Palomas, bordertown of maybe 10k population about 60 miles west, south of Columbus (where Villa invaded, or whatever), but not Juarez.

Not that there hasn't been violence in Palomas, a few years back they had a full blown shootout, but being so much smaller there just isn't as much danger, or certainly much less perceived danger.

 

That said I still go to Juarez, I just stay to my known haunts.

 

edit: I also think we need to realize that Cartels aren't severable, at this point, from society or govt. in general, there is Cartel influence and money at all levels of govt and society, so I'm not sure how a US vs. Cartel war looks exactly. But I can't get my brain wrapped around the Cartels being able to unify enough to poison us or do anything cohesive. I think they'd just as soon kill each other.

That said at some level that inter-cartel rivalry disappears as you go up the chain and the cartel $, politicians, and elite monopoly businessmen all comingle.

Edited by GringoSalado
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On 2/26/2021 at 10:56 AM, crash_davis said:

No idea how I got here but this is a great subreddit about the cartels war in Mexico. I don't know shit about it. All I know is that it's been going on for decades. Kill one leader, get rid of one cartel, others take their places. Endless.

Anyway, this subreddit has some very graphic videos. Supposedly there was a big shootout this past weekend involving CJNG cartel vs other "cartels" and the government. 

Helicopter go brrrrrr.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheNarcoblog701/comments/lq2agj/a_helicopter_was_called_to_help_take_out_a/

Subreddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheNarcoblog701/

Make sure you read the comments. They give more context and links to some graphic videos. 

Good video of the what's happening. I feel bad for the people. Sounds like some don't have any choice but to be part of the war.

 

At least they have good taste with their truck....  It doesn't have the name of Houston area plumber on the door panel  

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28 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

^ lots of folks in the 915 will go to Palomas, bordertown of maybe 10k population about 60 miles west, south of Columbus (where Villa invaded, or whatever), but not Juarez.

Not that there hasn't been violence in Palomas, a few years back they had a full blown shootout, but being so much smaller there just isn't as much danger, or certainly much less perceived danger.

 

That said I still go to Juarez, I just stay to my known haunts.

 

edit: I also think we need to realize that Cartels aren't severable, at this point, from society or govt. in general, there is Cartel influence and money at all levels of govt and society, so I'm not sure how a US vs. Cartel war looks exactly. But I can't get my brain wrapped around the Cartels being able to unify enough to poison us or do anything cohesive. I think they'd just as soon kill each other.

That said at some level that inter-cartel rivalry disappears as you go up the chain and the cartel $, politicians, and elite monopoly businessmen all comingle.

Yea, I think just the chances of the unifying against a common are not a simple as they look.   A lot of egos involved and there is always someone wanting to step in and take on the roll of the Chief.   Some of the very bosses currently running the show knocked off their own to take on the job and they probably know they will next if anyone sees a weakness.    And a weakness would be cooperating with a rival.  

I think if it ever got close to a boiling point where the US Gov had to up the ante, covert actions would rule and we wouldn't know about it until years later if at all.

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1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I think if it ever got close to a boiling point where the US Gov had to up the ante, covert actions would rule and we wouldn't know about it until years later if at all.

I think so too, and this will be done with the acquiescence of one faction of the Mex govt that we turn against the other.

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1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I think if it ever got close to a boiling point where the US Gov had to up the ante, covert actions would rule and we wouldn't know about it until years later if at all.

You mean like Grenada and Panama?  We had guys bounding in and out all over South American and the surrounding regions.  

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2 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Colombia seems to have cleaned up their act and dirty reputation from the ‚Äė80‚Äôs and 90‚Äôs. Not sure if that perception is accurate. What have they done differently since that time?

This is what I don't understand. The cocaine is still coming from down there. I guess maybe it's not as prevalent as it used to be as coke seems to have fallen a bit out of fashion compared to meth and heroin and opioids, but it's still cocaine, and will always be popular. 

I get that the route got switched from South America to Miami more towards overland through Central America, and I get why there is all this carnage along that route, but why aren't the growers beefing now? Why is that the the drug war jumped about 1000 miles north to Mexico? 

I read the Winslow books and I don't if he ever explained this. 

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On 2/26/2021 at 12:19 PM, crash_davis said:

So we legalize drugs. Great for us. But that doesn't stop the shitshow in Mexico. The cartels will still war with each other to be the supplier of our legal drugs.

 I mean, just look at the blood shed between Pfizer and Eli Lilly. Or between Anheuser-Busch and Miller Brewing.

That wouldn’t happen. Force them to go corporate and they’ll stop spending money on muscle and bribery and start spending it on marketing, lawyers, and lobbyists (another form of bribery but that’s beside the point).

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4 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

 I mean, just look at the blood shed between Pfizer and Eli Lilly. Or between Anheuser-Busch and Miller Brewing.

That wouldn’t happen. Force them to go corporate and they’ll stop spending money on muscle and bribery and start spending it on marketing, lawyers, and lobbyists (another form of bribery but that’s beside the point).

I don't see the US government allowing companies to make and profit from producing and selling meth, cocaine, heroin, crack, etc. Weed is one thing, crack and meth are entirely something different.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

This is what I don't understand. The cocaine is still coming from down there. I guess maybe it's not as prevalent as it used to be as coke seems to have fallen a bit out of fashion compared to meth and heroin and opioids, but it's still cocaine, and will always be popular. 

I get that the route got switched from South America to Miami more towards overland through Central America, and I get why there is all this carnage along that route, but why aren't the growers beefing now? Why is that the the drug war jumped about 1000 miles north to Mexico? 

I read the Winslow books and I don't if he ever explained this. 

My impression, after absorbing a lot of this stuff, from many different sources, is that once the Colombians ceded distribution to the Mexicans and bore the brunt of Colombian/American interdiction that eradicated a lot of the major lords, they now just content themselves with growing it and selling it to Mexico and to the European factions and don't greedhead it past that.  They seem to understand that distributing into North America, while immensely profitable also brings immense headaches, so they just settle for their quiet, tidy profits.

Shit's still going down there, but on a smaller scale than it used to and drawing less attention from the US.  The extradition treaty with the US actually made a difference there.  By not directly trafficking to the US, I believe Colombians avoid a lot of exposure there.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Colombia seems to have cleaned up their act and dirty reputation from the ‚Äė80‚Äôs and 90‚Äôs. Not sure if that perception is accurate. What have they done differently since that time?

I think Colombia is doing what Mexico used to do with their cartels, albeit it's on a much smaller scale from the 80's and 90's.     The government has their playground while the Cartels have theirs.   Once in awhile, the Cartels will offer a sacrificial lamb so the government looks good while the government looks the other way with other stuff.     Getting rid of Pablo Escobar and a couple of the other Cartels who controlled the distribution and had puppets in Government allowed the reset to occur.   FARC kind of got a shot in the arm for awhile during the decline of the Cartels because the poor farmers/ workers had no where to go because they were employed by the Cartels, but they've even signed a peace treaty with the Columbia Government. 

Edited by Nueces River Rat
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7 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I think Colombia is doing what Mexico used to do with their cartels.     The government has their playground while the Cartels have theirs.   Once in awhile, the Cartels will offer a sacrificial lamb so the government looks good while the government looks the other way with other stuff.    

Peace for all involved, for now. I think Colombians would gladly accept the gentlemen's agreement now versus the shitshow of the Escobar years or the shitshow in Mexico for the past few decades. Everyone makes their money, people can go eat at restaurants without fear of being blown up or shot up.

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2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Peace for all involved, for now. I think Colombians would gladly accept the gentlemen's agreement now versus the shitshow of the Escobar years or the shitshow in Mexico for the past few decades. Everyone makes their money, people can go eat at restaurants without fear of being blown up or shot up.

Yep... I'd love to visit Columbia some time in the near future as part of a South America trip.    Cartagena and Bogota are very vibrant cities like Buenos Aires and Santiago.   

With Mexico,  I thought AMLO's main goal was to make that peace with the cartels, but to date it's not even close to being accomplished.   In fact it's probably where it was at before he took office.  

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18 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Yep... I'd love to visit Columbia some time in the near future as part of a South America trip.    Cartagena and Bogota are very vibrant cities like Buenos Aires and Santiago.   

With Mexico,  I thought AMLO's main goal was to make that peace with the cartels, but to date it's not even close to being accomplished.   In fact it's probably where it was at before he took office.  

Colombia. 

And yes, they have turned it around, and the shit that still happens tends to not come into the urban areas. 

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5 hours ago, GringoSalado said:

But I can't get my brain wrapped around the Cartels being able to unify enough to poison us or do anything cohesive. I think they'd just as soon kill each other.

Wouldn't that be kind of like all of the online venders deciding together to start including a bomb in every package they sent out?  It wouldn't take long for the word to get out and it would kind of kill their business.

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Posted (edited)
On 2/28/2021 at 4:49 PM, BabaYaga said:

If the US went to war with Mexico, which is the scenario you are outlining, it would make the ME seem like Granada.  It would be like sharing a border with Afghanistan, with the Afghanis in every major city.  Integrated vertically and horizontally into virtually every facet of our economy, and with the ability to attack directly the cities, towns, and families of the soldiers sent to apprehend them.  Given direction at a moments notice.  I can't think of a better way to unite the cartels more than direct, foreign military intervention.  These drugs are not made in factories, they are made in virtually every small village in the country.  

And that is after casualties in the millions if they decided to poison their supply with fatal ingredients (a scenario Ed learned was a very real contingency many cartels outlined that was later discovered) that would send millions to every hospital in the country virtually overnight.  We lost hundreds of thousands to COVID, but not at one time.  This would be as if COVID had the lethality of small pox and there was no vaccination.  It would cripple the US almost instantly.    

So what this Ed fellow and you are saying is essentially this entire country is the bitch of the cartels.

I agree that even surgical drone strikes on cartel strongholds would have a very unpredictable and dangerous ripple effect.

But I also hold that the cartels' business interests up here, from Brownsville to Boston, San Diego to Seattle, are making a lot of powerful bankers very happy. 

I think Mexico City, DC and New York are willing to settle for this horrible status quo if it keeps the money flowing. Effectively, it's funneling dollars from American and European partiers and addicts through Columbia, Peru and Bolivia, and then all the way through Central America and into Mexico, from whence a lot more of it ends up in the pockets of real estate developers and construction companies in El Norte. Along the way, law enforcement and politicians take a bite everywhere from the Andes through Canada and Europe.

Any cartelero who upset that apple cart would have some explaining to do, and not just to the DEA and the Pentagon, but also Wall Street.

Trust me: both my parents were at one time or another smalltime drug dealers, and one of them traded on an international scale.  

  

Edited by MaybeACoordinator
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4 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

So what this Ed fellow and you are saying is essentially this entire country is the bitch of the cartels.

I agree that even surgical drone strikes on cartel strongholds would have a very unpredictable and dangerous ripple effect.

But I also hold that the cartels' business interests up here, from Brownsville to Boston, San Diego to Seattle, are making a lot of powerful bankers very happy. 

I think Mexico City, DC and New York are willing to settle for this horrible status quo if it keeps the money flowing. Effectively, it's funneling dollars from American and European partiers and addicts through Columbia, Peru and Bolivia, and then all the way through Central America and into Mexico, from whence a lot more of it ends up in the pockets of real estate developers and construction companies in El Norte. Along the way, law enforcement and politicians take a bite everywhere from the Andes through Canada and Europe.

Any cartelero who upset that apple cart would have some explaining to do, and not just to the DEA and the Pentagon, but also Wall Street.

Trust me: both my parents were at one time or another smalltime drug dealers, and one of them traded on an international scale.  

  

There is a lot of money from Mexico invested in the RGV and South Padre Island. For being one of the regions always noted on national TV or publications as being poverty stricken and dealing with third world issues, if one drives for Brownsville to Mission on the main expressway, you’d think you were in one of the typical suburbs in Houston or the DFW area.   You can find homes that would easily challenge 500k or more if located in number of metro areas across the nation, but can be bought down there for half of that because of cheap labor.  I grew up down there and witnessed the area transform and it almost goes hand and hand with the increase in wealth from Mexico and it being funneled into business on this side.  

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200.gif

Very impressive my man. Very impressive. You know your stuff. Will leave names out, but I can confirm both. The father died of heart attack/pneumonia. Or so I was told.
Allegedly. 

This^^^. All names aside, I’ve worked with the entity owner (the son, obviously) on quite a few deals in greater Houston. Get him drinking and he’ll definitely take you down the rabbit hole.
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12 minutes ago, woohorn said:

Google says 1.5MM expats live in Mexico. How long is that arrangement going to be safe if US tourists to resort towns aren't?

Honest question, other than the Mormons shootout, has there been any other American's killed by the cartels in Mexico, or more specific, innocently killed?

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21 hours ago, crash_davis said:

I don't see the US government allowing companies to make and profit from producing and selling meth, cocaine, heroin, crack, etc. Weed is one thing, crack and meth are entirely something different.

636653499965750303-AP-Opioid-Epidemic-Ar

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37 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Honest question, other than the Mormons shootout, has there been any other American's killed by the cartels in Mexico, or more specific, innocently killed?

I think carjacking killings are fairly common. I know there was a dentist killed during the pandemic because it was posted on this board. Normally, I don't think we hear about it in the news, though.

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42 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Honest question, other than the Mormons shootout, has there been any other American's killed by the cartels in Mexico, or more specific, innocently killed?

I lived in Monterrey for 3 years and it was a crazy ass time. Bodies hanging off bridges was normal while driving around. Never really heard of any expats getting killed though. I was there during the casino bombing. That was insane shit when that happened

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Yep... I'd love to visit Columbia some time in the near future as part of a South America trip.    Cartagena and Bogota are very vibrant cities like Buenos Aires and Santiago.   
With Mexico,  I thought AMLO's main goal was to make that peace with the cartels, but to date it's not even close to being accomplished.   In fact it's probably where it was at before he took office.  
I went to Colombia last February as part of a Spanish immersion trip, we spent a week in Medellín and I didn't want to come home. I never felt unsafe for a second, and the people I interacted with were all incredibly friendly. There's just a vibe or energy you get just from being there, it was hard to explain but I couldn't get enough of it. I'm really tempted to go back even with Covid but it wouldn't be the same. Really hoping to go by the late summer or fall. I think they've totally left the drug thing behind, nobody really speaks of Escobar anymore.

Enviado desde mi SM-G973U mediante Tapatalk

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Google says 1.5MM expats live in Mexico. How long is that arrangement going to be safe if US tourists to resort towns aren't?

US citizens are as safe in Cancun or Cabo as they are in any American beach town, because those are essentially American beach towns. Generally, as an American traveler, don’t start no shit, won’t be no shit.

For the most part there isn’t incentive for cartels to start indiscriminately killing rando civilians for no reason, particularly expats. Violence is widespread because the drug trade, human trafficking, and various other enterprises they have the tentacles in are widespread, but if you’re not involved in that stuff there isn’t a ton of reason to be worried. My blonde haired blue eyed brother is one of those 1.5mm and lives there without issue.
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40 minutes ago, iodeac said:

There's just a vibe or energy you get just from being there, it was hard to explain but I couldn't get enough of it.

That was the coca leaf tea talking to you.  But kidding aside, Colombia is on the short list of places to retire to when I bail on this joint.

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Posted (edited)
On 2/26/2021 at 7:51 PM, Helobious said:

Used to go to Mexico to see relatives in Monterrey or Nuevo Laredo at least once a year as a kid. Been going way less often since 06 when the war popped off, was last was there over a year ago. I usually don’t feel too unsafe. Only travel during the day, keep a low profile, don’t travel with only males in the car, drive a shitty car, and make sure your insurance card doesn’t have any nice cars listed on it either (they’ll check). Do all that you’ll generally be fine. 

There is so much more money to be made in Mexico if the cartel situation was calm and relatively safe like it was in the late 90s. Decoupling manufacturing from China and bringing it to Mexico has the support of everyone in the US. Much rather have our neighbor benefit than the Chicoms. The existing maquiladoras in NLD are on life support because of the lack of security. You have Rheem making water heaters but not much else. I don’t get how the government, military and the cartels themselves have not brought shit under control. This shit has been going on since the early 2000s for Christ’s sake. Medellin used to be the world’s murder capital, now it’s safe and getting lots of Euro and American tourists.

The cartels should be classified as enemy combatants in rebellion against the federal government and should be shot on sight of it was to me. Mexico needs a real life version of Col. Carrillo from Narcos. Someone who loves their country, is incorruptible and will do whatever it takes. It’s ridiculous that when I’m in Laredo or the RGV that I never go to Mexico because it’s so dangerous. Wasn’t like that when I was in school. Miss getting a meal at a restaurant like El Rincon del Viejo with their incredible cabrito and going to different bars. The cartels are missing out on making money off of us gringos.

Edited by Macklemore
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On 2/26/2021 at 11:27 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

Highland Village, all of it, was built by some Middle Eastern arms dealer who may or may not have been murked by the Mossad. Nobody knows. 

There's some other dude in River Oaks who absconded from Iran with billions in gold and treasure from the Shah's treasury and became a pillar of the community in Houston. Just the tip of the iceberg.  

The Highland Village guy was an Arab that also owned the restaurant Up. He was a raging anti-Semite and I wouldn’t surprise Mossad capped him. The Iranian is Hushang Ansary. There was a rather unflattering article about him recently in the Miami Herald.

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2 hours ago, Macklemore said:

The Highland Village guy was an Iraqi that also owned the restaurant Up. He was a raging anti-Semite and anti-Kurd. I wouldn’t surprise Mossad capped him. The Iranian is Hushang Ansary.

Both have played a significant role in Iraqi-American and Persian-American geopolitical movidas in the past 40 years.

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3 hours ago, Macklemore said:

The cartels are missing out on making money off of us gringos.

It seems that the cartels are making plenty of money off of you gringos.

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Less Risk, More Reward

The shift in focus from the United States to Europe was a no-brainer for international drug traffickers, especially those in Colombia.

Traffickers face enormous risks in moving drugs to the United States, whose government has spent billions of dollars on seizing drug loads and extraditing traffickers, said InSight Crime Co-director Jeremy McDermott. As a result, Colombian traffickers have come to prefer lucrative European markets.

‚ÄúA kilogram of cocaine is worth $28,000 wholesale in the United States. That same kilogram in Europe fetches around $40,000 with much less risk,‚ÄĚ said McDermott.

https://insightcrime.org/news/latam-europe-cocaine-market/


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15 hours ago, Macklemore said:

There is so much more money to be made in Mexico if the cartel situation was calm and relatively safe like it was in the late 90s. Decoupling manufacturing from China and bringing it to Mexico has the support of everyone in the US. Much rather have our neighbor benefit than the Chicoms. The existing maquiladoras in NLD are on life support because of the lack of security. You have Rheem making water heaters but not much else. I don’t get how the government, military and the cartels themselves have not brought shit under control. This shit has been going on since the early 2000s for Christ’s sake. Medellin used to be the world’s murder capital, now it’s safe and getting lots of Euro and American tourists.

The cartels should be classified as enemy combatants in rebellion against the federal government and should be shot on sight of it was to me. Mexico needs a real life version of Col. Carrillo from Narcos. Someone who loves their country, is incorruptible and will do whatever it takes. It’s ridiculous that when I’m in Laredo or the RGV that I never go to Mexico because it’s so dangerous. Wasn’t like that when I was in school. Miss getting a meal at a restaurant like El Rincon del Viejo with their incredible cabrito and going to different bars. The cartels are missing out on making money off of us gringos.

Indeed  that was the whole idea behind NAFTA and the replacement was to make Mexico the destination in this hemisphere for assembly of US/Canadian components along with some straight out manufacturing.  And to some extent in the 90's and even before in 80's when the concept was in play but it wasn't part of an official treaty, it was working like that.  RCA, Sony, Zenith, Panasonic, etc.  all had plants in Reynosa, Juarez, Tijuana and TV's were assembled of from US and other foreign made components across the border and then shipped back across for warehousing and distribution at these companies facilities on this side of the border.   I really hope the Covid thing opens this up a possibility again as it did expose a giant issue with supply chains from China.   Would we rather key medical equipment or medications for that matter be made in our backyard with a somewhat more friendly regime to work with in the Mexican Government.  Or the Chicoms?  On a related note, they should give Puerto Rico back their tax status that allowed Pharma to produce meds there.  That hurt their economy big time too and at least with Puerto Rico being a US territory, the Fed Gov has some oversight.

Mexico was starting to get something resembling a middle class in the 80's into the 90's.  Those malls along the border where just not filled with the wealthy from Mexico, but you had some Mexicans that would fit the middle class description.   But then the Cartels got busy and it seems it went off track where they've been able to tap right into the poor and elevate them into their circles.  One thing you will notice is the Cartels and their leadership by in large resemble more of the indigenous class in Mexico instead of the class that has more Spanish/European blood which goes hand in hand with the Caste system in Mexico.   The later has always been the more wealthy and pretty much the power brokers since Mexico became a nation with a few exceptions here and there.

And yes Reynosa was part of my younger years....   The 80's club scene was a blast and only got better after the drinking age was raised on this side of the river.  It was like "what drinking age?" with most of us growing up back then down there.  LOL!  I'm glad Nuevo Progreso is still safe to make a quick daytrip over to do a little shopping and a bite to eat and a couple of ice cold cervezas  at the Original Arturo's or Red Snapper!

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11 hours ago, XYZ said:

It seems that the cartels are making plenty of money off of you gringos.

The Cartels are now making money off lower class gringos where Meth rules over all the other choices.  

One thing I've noticed more with local news down here vs just a few short years ago, the seizures of the pure meth products or components at the check points make the news more than even a sizeable (in dollars)  cocaine seizure and I don't think they even make a press release regarding weed unless it's a whole tractor trailer full.  

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23 hours ago, crash_davis said:

Honest question, other than the Mormons shootout, has there been any other American's killed by the cartels in Mexico, or more specific, innocently killed?

There has been a few here and there...  More like being at the wrong place at the very wrong time...   But that stuff happens a lot on this side too.   Some people are just dumb and go against their better instincts even if locals tell them NOT to go to a certain place especially at a particular time like a club or some destination off the beaten path.

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1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Indeed  that was the whole idea behind NAFTA and the replacement was to make Mexico the destination in this hemisphere for assembly of US/Canadian components along with some straight out manufacturing.  And to some extent in the 90's and even before in 80's when the concept was in play but it wasn't part of an official treaty, it was working like that.  RCA, Sony, Zenith, Panasonic, etc.  all had plants in Reynosa, Juarez, Tijuana and TV's were assembled of from US and other foreign made components across the border and then shipped back across for warehousing and distribution at these companies facilities on this side of the border.   I really hope the Covid thing opens this up a possibility again as it did expose a giant issue with supply chains from China.   Would we rather key medical equipment or medications for that matter be made in our backyard with a somewhat more friendly regime to work with in the Mexican Government.  Or the Chicoms?  On a related note, they should give Puerto Rico back their tax status that allowed Pharma to produce meds there.  That hurt their economy big time too and at least with Puerto Rico being a US territory, the Fed Gov has some oversight.

Mexico was starting to get something resembling a middle class in the 80's into the 90's.  Those malls along the border where just not filled with the wealthy from Mexico, but you had some Mexicans that would fit the middle class description.   But then the Cartels got busy and it seems it went off track where they've been able to tap right into the poor and elevate them into their circles.  One thing you will notice is the Cartels and their leadership by in large resemble more of the indigenous class in Mexico instead of the class that has more Spanish/European blood which goes hand in hand with the Caste system in Mexico.   The later has always been the more wealthy and pretty much the power brokers since Mexico became a nation with a few exceptions here and there.

And yes Reynosa was part of my younger years....   The 80's club scene was a blast and only got better after the drinking age was raised on this side of the river.  It was like "what drinking age?" with most of us growing up back then down there.  LOL!  I'm glad Nuevo Progreso is still safe to make a quick daytrip over to do a little shopping and a bite to eat and a couple of ice cold cervezas  at the Original Arturo's or Red Snapper!

Tijuana was briefly the TV capital of the world. And most of the wealthy and powerful have little to no Mestizo characteristics.

 

Lifelong frontera denizen here, but out west, and I can say that the lower classes have long looked up to the Narcotraffickers. When I ran a crew in the ohl fill my dudes were always watching narco snuff vids on You Tube and glorifying the lifestyle. A bit of a populist bent to it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, GringoSalado said:

Tijuana was briefly the TV capital of the world. And most of the wealthy and powerful have little to no Mestizo characteristics.

 

Lifelong frontera denizen here, but out west, and I can say that the lower classes have long looked up to the Narcotraffickers. When I ran a crew in the ohl fill my dudes were always watching narco snuff vids on You Tube and glorifying the lifestyle. A bit of a populist bent to it.

 

 

like young black kids glorifying gang banger life? do they have spanish rappers rapping about separating people's body parts and shit? if not, they need to. that would complete the glorification into pop culture.

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4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

like young black kids glorifying gang banger life? do they have spanish rappers rapping about separating people's body parts and shit? if not, they need to. that would complete the glorification into pop culture.

just for the last 15 years:

https://www.npr.org/2009/10/10/113664067/narcocorridos-ballads-of-the-mexican-cartels

"The kids of Reynosa and Matamoros and many parts of Mexico learn the words to a corrido before they learn the National Anthem," Martinez says.

He may be overstating it, but it's undeniable that the popularity of narcocorridos has tracked the spiraling cartel violence in Mexico.

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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