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Texas athletes petitioning University to replace "The Eyes of Texas" and to no longer require athletes to sing it


Goo Punch

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From that description, I thought “General Lee” sang the eyes of Texas? No? Well, he must have said “the eyes of Texas”.....no didn’t say that either?

In the end, I’m a pragmatic guy. I’m not in favor of dog and pony shows. If there was true racism expressed directly or indirectly by the words in the song I would definitely be against its use. The words don’t say that to me. Will anyone’s life be better for having made this change or will the problem still be there and we’ve just pretended to make changes? Seems like the later.
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1 hour ago, mdmost said:

Who are these members you speak of? Pretty sure I specifically said keep it open because it's an important conversation to have. You really love to play the victim. The evil cabal always out to get you. 

I think I’m a Cabal member But I like this thread. Distinguishes the morons from rational people. Those who are so attached to a song they’d rather see the university burn to the ground than lose it from those who empathize with the players and encourage them to speak up and make positive change to the greatest university in the country 

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2 minutes ago, Lhorn said:


From that description, I thought “General Lee” sang the eyes of Texas? No? Well, he must have said “the eyes of Texas”.....no didn’t say that either?

In the end, I’m a pragmatic guy. I’m not in favor of dog and pony shows. If there was true racism expressed directly or indirectly by the words in the song I would definitely be against its use. The words don’t say that to me. Will anyone’s life be better for having made this change or will the problem still be there and we’ve just pretended to make changes? Seems like the later.

Exactly this.

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1 hour ago, HRSchenker said:

A fraternity brother was texting me this morning and reminded me that Canada changed their national anthem because "true patriot love in all thy sons command" was deemed to be sexist. Now it's "true patriot love in all of us command." Did Canadian women really find that song offensive? I find that hard to believe just like I find it hard to believe that The Eyes Of Texas is being dismissed as racist. 

But hey I believe in consistency. Now that we're moving forward away from racism and intolerance, I expect Tom Herman to restrict some of the music being played in the locker room. No more southern boy redneck nonsense. No more hip hop using racial slurs. 

 

3 hours ago, CfRhTxStBobcats said:

Except those changes really changes nothing. I'm pretty sure a vast majority of students and student athletes have no idea whom all of those buildings were named after until someone got in their ear recently. Buildings, change the names, I couldn't care less, tweak the damn song, not that difficult, donating money or else, that's extortion. 

@HRSchenker and @CfRhTxStBobcats, why are both of you so sure you understand those view points of people different from you? How many Canadian women have you talked to about this issue? What about black students or athletes? Why do you presume your opinion is the universal one? I am not saying that either one of you is wrong, by the way, but the surety of knowing someone else's mind is surprising to me.

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Thats not what any of this is about.  Like I said before, nobody gave a shit about this until the recent narrative changed.  Now people are just looking for reasons to be outraged.  Its sjw culture part 2.  Welcome to the land of microaggressions, safe spaces, no nuances, and no going against the ideology or you are a terrible person.  


Anyone up for a game of Breitbart Buzzword Bingo?
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4 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Thats not what any of this is about.  Like I said before, nobody gave a shit about this until the recent narrative changed.  Now people are just looking for reasons to be outraged.  Its sjw culture part 2.  Welcome to the land of microaggressions, safe spaces, no nuances, and no going against the ideology or you are a terrible person.  

Here come the "narrative" takes again. Can we retire that word forever?

Why are you telling us about the evils of microaggressions when it seems that you, consistently, seem to be the most emotional about this?

Are you trying to warn us about yourself?

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9 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Thats not what any of this is about.  Like I said before, nobody gave a shit about this until the recent narrative changed.  Now people are just looking for reasons to be outraged.  Its sjw culture part 2.  Welcome to the land of microaggressions, safe spaces, no nuances, and no going against the ideology or you are a terrible person.  

The narrative hasn’t changed. You’re just being forced to listen to the other fucking side for once. 

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4 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Here come the "narrative" takes again. Can we retire that word forever?

Why are you telling us about the evils of microaggressions when it seems that you, consistently, seem to be the most emotional about this?

Are you trying to warn us about yourself?

 

Gee I didn't know it was emotional to have an opposing opinion and speak up about it.  You can have your opinion and I can have mine.  I stand by everything I said.

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2 hours ago, RollLeft said:

No, i'm clear.  The words of the song are not racist.  The subtext is that the author penned a song for the university and its president.  The context is that the non racist song was presented to that president at a racist gathering.  That is how far we have to stretch to connect the song to racism.   

Is that 4 degrees of separation to link current fans who sing that song to Robert E. Lee? It’s more like 5 for me because I first heard it from Elvis in Viva Las Vegas. 

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1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

The narrative hasn’t changed. You’re just being forced to listen to the other fucking side for once. 

Thats such bullshit.  You have no idea how many in depth conversations Ive had with people on the other side of this issue.  Fuck off.

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12 minutes ago, Lhorn said:


From that description, I thought “General Lee” sang the eyes of Texas? No? Well, he must have said “the eyes of Texas”.....no didn’t say that either?

In the end, I’m a pragmatic guy. I’m not in favor of dog and pony shows. If there was true racism expressed directly or indirectly by the words in the song I would definitely be against its use. The words don’t say that to me. Will anyone’s life be better for having made this change or will the problem still be there and we’ve just pretended to make changes? Seems like the later.

There is already proof that the words indirectly and directly express racism. See my previous post and link 

And yes, the black peoples lives will be better if this changes 

 

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There's also the fact that Eli Yale was a slave trader.  

If true (I was not aware of that fact) then the name of the school should definitely be changed by today’s standard. It’s not even a question. The link to racism is far more direct in that case than it is in the case of “the eyes.”
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3 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Thats such bullshit.  You have no idea how many in depth conversations Ive had with people on the other side of this issue.  Fuck off.

The old “but I have a black friend” trope so my opinion is legit. 

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6 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

 

Gee I didn't know it was emotional to have an opposing opinion and speak up about it.  You can have your opinion and I can have mine.  I stand by everything I said.

You seem emotional. Not because your opinion is different, but rather the manner in which you are expressing it. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but you're taking your eye off the ball and veering all over the place. 

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13 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Thats such bullshit.  You have no idea how many in depth conversations Ive had with people on the other side of this issue.  Fuck off.

So have all these conversations taken place over the last 6 hours? Because 6 hours ago you said this:

7 hours ago, Apex73 said:

So in all of it's years of existence nobody gave a shit about that until now. 

Oh and by the way, if you bother to do a google search on the issue, you’ll see one of the first hits is a story from 2018.

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3 minutes ago, TornACL said:

You seem emotional. Not because your opinion is different, but rather the manner in which you are expressing it. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but you're taking your eye off the ball and veering all over the place. 

In my opinion the other side is taking their eye off the ball.  The biggest problem facing the black community isn't racism.  It's the fact that over 70 percent are born without a father in the home.  Its the fact that they are responsible for most black deaths in the country.  Around 7000 black people died of homicide last year and 93 percent of that was done by another black person.  Where is black lives matter on that?  Im all for protesting police brutality but this is just reaching for morality points.

 

8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The old “but I have a black friend” trope so my opinion is legit. 

Its not just that I have black friends.  Ive talked to many people of different races on this issue that disagree with me.  And I don't just have a black friend I have many.  I lived with 2 black friends for 5 years and Im not afraid to tell anyone my opinion regardless of race or social circumstances.  

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1 minute ago, Apex73 said:

In my opinion the other side is taking their eye off the ball.  The biggest problem facing the black community isn't racism.  It's the fact that over 70 percent are born without a father in the home.  Its the fact that they are responsible for most black deaths in the country.  Around 7000 black people died of homicide last year and 93 percent of that was done by another black person.  Where is black lives matter on that?  Im all for protesting police brutality but this is just reaching for morality points.

 

Its not just that I have black friends.  Ive talked to many people of different races on this issue that disagree with me.  And I don't just have a black friend I have many.  I lived with 2 black friends for 5 years and Im not afraid to tell anyone my opinion regardless of race or social circumstances.  

So this is you?

 

J/K

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There is already proof that the words indirectly and directly express racism. See my previous post and link 
And yes, the black peoples lives will be better if this changes 
 

I don’t believe you provided proof of any kind that the song expresses racist sentiment. What in the words of the song are racist?
You’ve described the origins of the song. I’m talking about the meaning of the words.

Is the modern version of”I’ve been working on the railroad” forbidden in modern society because the original version had racist lyrics? I’m not aware that it is and I’ve got you kids who sang this song in kindergarten. I think people have accepted that despite its racist origin, the modern version of the song is just a kids song about working on a train, nothing more, nothing less.
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1 hour ago, CDAK said:

 

The definition I knew is the most common definition, friend.

minstrel

[ min-struh l ]SHOW IPA

noun

1. a medieval poet and musician who sang or recited while accompanying himself on a stringed instrument, either as a member of a noble household or as an itinerant troubadour.
2. a musician, singer, or poet.
3. one of a troupe of comedians, usually white men in blackface, presenting songs, jokes, etc., and portraying negative racial stereotypes.
 

Definition of minstrel

 

1: one of a class of medieval musical entertainers especially : a singer of verses to the accompaniment of a harp wandering minstrels
2a: MUSICIAN
b: POET
3a: a member of a type of performance troupe caricaturing black performers that originated in the U.S. in the early 19th century

NOTE: The acts of minstrels, who typically performed in blackface, featured exaggerated and inaccurate representations of black people in songs, dances, and comic dialogue. The popularity of minstrel shows in their heyday played a significant role in promoting negative racial stereotypes. Professional minstrel shows had fallen out of favor and effectively disappeared by the mid-20th century.

b: a performance by a troupe of minstrels : a minstrel show
 

Huh...and here I thought it was when a woman gets her period.

themoreyouknow.gif

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1 minute ago, Apex73 said:

In my opinion the other side is taking their eye off the ball.  The biggest problem facing the black community isn't racism.  It's the fact that over 70 percent are born without a father in the home.  Its the fact that they are responsible for most black deaths in the country.  Around 7000 black people died of homicide last year and 93 percent of that was done by another black person.  Where is black lives matter on that?  Im all for protesting police brutality but this is just reaching for morality points.

ah yes, the old "we'll help you once you help yourselves" argument, which has been complete fucking bullshit for 65 years. 

Caden Sterms should definitely shut the fuck up about everything until his culture gets their house in order. 

Congratulations on your fresh and original take. 

Did you have a big brother? Did he ever ask you why you're hitting yourself, while he grabbed your forearm and smacked your own hand against your face? That's essentially the argument you're making. 

I have an idea. Let's take away the clearly evident disadvantages that minority neighborhoods have (schools, fair policing, etc) and then let's see what happens. What's the harm in that?

Why do some Americans need to earn the right to be treated fairly and with respect? Seems antithetical to what we like to claim about our nation's vision. 

 

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32 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

 

@HRSchenker and @CfRhTxStBobcats, why are both of you so sure you understand those view points of people different from you? How many Canadian women have you talked to about this issue? What about black students or athletes? Why do you presume your opinion is the universal one? I am not saying that either one of you is wrong, by the way, but the surety of knowing someone else's mind is surprising to me.

Inevitably these conversations wind up coming down to someone saying "this is my truth". There is no such thing as "your truth". There's just the truth. The Eyes is not racist. The Canadian national anthem was not sexist. You find me one alumnus who says that the stars and bars fill their hearts when they sing the alma mater and I'll change my mind.

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4 minutes ago, TornACL said:

ah yes, the old "we'll help you once you help yourselves" argument, which has been complete fucking bullshit for 65 years. 

Caden Sterms should definitely shut the fuck up about everything until his culture gets their house in order. 

Congratulations on your fresh and original take. 

Did you have a big brother? Did he ever ask you why you're hitting yourself, while he grabbed your forearm and smacked your own hand against your face? That's essentially the argument you're making. 

I have an idea. Let's take away the clearly evident disadvantages that minority neighborhoods have (schools, fair policing, etc) and then let's see what happens. What's the harm in that?

Why do some Americans need to earn the right to be treated fairly and with respect? Seems antithetical to what we like to claim about our nation's vision. 

 

Im saying those are the problems we need to address.  Those are the facts.  Im not saying we don't have a responsibility to help that cause as as nation, Im saying that this is just shooting in the wrong direction and the problems will still exist when its over and we will be nowhere closer to that community being in a better place.

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You want to believe the problem is fatherless children because believing it allows you to remain apathetic on everything else.

My parents split when I was 2 and I rarely saw my dad growing up. Amazingly, I didn’t have to fear getting pulled over and killed by a racist cop. I was able to go to a well funded public school without having to be bussed in. I didn’t have to worry about getting an interview because of my name.

The fatherless children trope is not the issue.

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Just now, Apex73 said:

Im saying those are the problems we need to address.  Those are the facts.  Im not saying we don't have a responsibility to help that cause as as nation, Im saying that this is just shooting in the wrong direction and the problems will still exist when its over and we will be nowhere closer to that community being in a better place.

Where in the letter did the student athletes declare that this will solve all of the world's problems? I'm wondering, because I didn't see it. 

 

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Every time black people ask for something simple... to be treated fairly by police, some idiot declares that black people kill a lot of black people. And a lot of black kids grow up in broken homes. 

Putting aside for a moment that the argument is completely disingenuous, when did we decide that only those who live a virtuous life are worthy of fair treatment?

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2 minutes ago, Lurch said:

You want to believe the problem is fatherless children because believing it allows you to remain apathetic on everything else.

My parents split when I was 2 and I rarely saw my dad growing up. Amazingly, I didn’t have to fear getting pulled over and killed by a racist cop. I was able to go to a well funded public school without having to be bussed in. I didn’t have to worry about getting an interview because of my name.

The fatherless children trope is not the issue.

Obama disagrees and so do I.  Saying that's not a major problem is completely ignoring reality.  I didn't go to a well funded public school.  Is the system racist against me too?  I grew up in a shitty part of southeast Dallas.  I got harassed by police too.  Got a gun pulled on me once by one cop.  I'm not saying some of them weren't racist but its more an issue of class and culture.  And that doesn't make the treatment justifiable. 

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6 hours ago, Wanker Bob said:

Not at all. It could be 100 percent fact. But a lot of white washing of history occurred so it's a definite possibility and accounts of history by the American white establishment shouldn't be taken as fact when it comes to questions of potential racist origins. When was the earliest account of the story? Is there a news article that can be verified to that time period with the story? Or did it come about recently?

I heard the show was almost out of minstrels due to injuries, when one of the the students in the stands put on blackface in case they needed him.  Not sure.

But I have had two Bulleit Old Fashioneds since 4:30 .

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10 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Every time black people ask for something simple... to be treated fairly by police, some idiot declares that black people kill a lot of black people. And a lot of black kids grow up in broken homes. 

Putting aside for a moment that the argument is completely disingenuous, when did we decide that only those who live a virtuous life are worthy of fair treatment?

Across the board the data suggests they are being treated just as fairly as white people.  Look up the Washington Posts stats on police killings last year.  Of the 1000 that were killed over 400 were white and by far the biggest number on the list.  Makes sense since there are mostly white people in America.  Of the entire bunch 28 were killed unarmed.  19 were white.  9 were black.  Where is the unfairness?  Now you could argue that study doesn't account for certain variables which I think would be a valid argument, but if you are just going off the numbers the data doesn't support that theory.

 

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14 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Where in the letter did the student athletes declare that this will solve all of the world's problems? I'm wondering, because I didn't see it. 

 

Its not solving any problems.  Its just stroking egos.

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50 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The narrative hasn’t changed. You’re just being forced to listen to the other fucking side for once. 

He’s intentionally ignoring it’s been reported on a few times since 2009. It’s not a new “outrage”

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22 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Inevitably these conversations wind up coming down to someone saying "this is my truth". There is no such thing as "your truth". There's just the truth. The Eyes is not racist. The Canadian national anthem was not sexist. You find me one alumnus who says that the stars and bars fill their hearts when they sing the alma mater and I'll change my mind.

But you didn't say that you don't find it sexist and you didn't claim that it is not objectively sexist. You specifically said that you don't think Canadian women find it sexist. What led you to this conclusion?

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5 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

Across the board the data suggests they are being treated just as fairly as white people.  Look up the Washington Posts stats on police killings last year.  Of the 1000 that were killed over 400 were white and by far the biggest number on the list.  Makes sense since there are mostly white people in America.  Of the entire bunch 28 were killed unarmed.  19 were white.  9 were black.  Where is the unfairness?  Now you could argue that study doesn't account for certain variables which I think would be a valid argument, but if you are just going off the numbers the data doesn't support that theory.

 

There is no acceptable number of police killings that has a comma in it, so I am not going to rehash that tired argument. 

Police killings, while disproportionately impacting black communities, are a problem that crosses all races. The police should not be killing 1000 fucking people per year, I dont care what race they are. 

Also, if the police reports of killings that were later found to have video are any example, we cannot trust police reports. 

Try again. 

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10 minutes ago, Apex73 said:

In my opinion the other side is taking their eye off the ball.  The biggest problem facing the black community isn't racism.  It's the fact that over 70 percent are born without a father in the home.  Its the fact that they are responsible for most black deaths in the country.  Around 7000 black people died of homicide last year and 93 percent of that was done by another black person.  Where is black lives matter on that?  Im all for protesting police brutality but this is just reaching for morality points.

 

Its not just that I have black friends.  Ive talked to many people of different races on this issue that disagree with me.  And I don't just have a black friend I have many.  I lived with 2 black friends for 5 years and Im not afraid to tell anyone my opinion regardless of race or social circumstances.  

You sound like a lot of the red neck country bumpkins I grew up around and now work near.  They share your same views and sentiments.  I’ve heard this same argument from a large segment of people I grew up with living in a small Texas town and they post the same shit your typing publicly on their Facebook.  I also remember those same people saying the most vile racist shit I’ve ever heard growing up when their one black friend wasn’t around.  
 

The socioeconomic issues the majority of black communities face are a direct result of generations of slavery, of Jim Crow laws, segregation, discrimination, underfunded schools, underfunded communities, voter suppression, and the list goes on.    All of that is because of racism.  

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1 minute ago, TornACL said:

There is no acceptable number of police killings that has a comma in it, so I am not going to rehash that tired argument. 

Also, if the police reports of killings that were later found to have video are any example, we cannot trust police reports. 

Try again. 

Or maybe you just don't like the fact that the data doest support your opinion.  Whatever dude.

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27 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Inevitably these conversations wind up coming down to someone saying "this is my truth". There is no such thing as "your truth". There's just the truth. The Eyes is not racist. The Canadian national anthem was not sexist. You find me one alumnus who says that the stars and bars fill their hearts when they sing the alma mater and I'll change my mind.

Obviously forced social outrage doesn't fit your world view

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2 minutes ago, victory88 said:

You sound like a lot of the red neck country bumpkins I grew up around and now work near.  They share your same views and sentiments.  I’ve heard this same argument from a large segment of people I grew up with living in a small Texas town and they post the same shit your typing publicly on their Facebook.  I also remember those same people saying the most vile racist shit I’ve ever heard growing up when their one black friend wasn’t around.  
 

The socioeconomic issues the majority of black communities face are a direct result of generations of slavery, of Jim Crow laws, segregation, discrimination, underfunded schools, underfunded communities, voter suppression, and the list goes on.    All of that is because of racism.  

Go look at the data.  It doesn't support your theory.  

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1 minute ago, Apex73 said:

Or maybe you just don't like the fact that the data doest support your opinion.  Whatever dude.

The data absolutely supports my opinion. The police kill too many people. 

It also supports the opinion that they disproportionately kill black people. You're just too stupid to understand how numbers work. 

Are you going to share with us that OAN video? Please. Please, do. 

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1 minute ago, TornACL said:

The data absolutely supports my opinion. The police kill too many people. 

It also supports the opinion that they disproportionately kill black people. You're just too stupid to understand how numbers work. 

Are you going to share with us that OAN video? Please. Please, do. 

I agree they kill too many people but I also agree that its one of the hardest jobs to do.  They need more training and funding.  Not to be defunded.  When people get defunded do you think they feel the incentive to do a better job?  They only killed a little over 200 black people last year which we agree is still too high.  But it doesn't support your opinion.

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