2021 NBA Offseason Thread: Business as Usual? -- Trades/Free Agency/Retirements/Etc.

[Message Board User 12388]

Ah the memories before things turned to shit. 

The best regular season game I have ever seen.  I lost count of the number of HoF plays that Kyrie made this game.

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Message Board User

[Patrick Bateman 3874]

On 8/20/2021 at 1:18 PM, Llogg said:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32056178/boston-celtics-robert-williams-agree-four-year-54m-extension

WTF are the Celtics doing?

He was crazy on per minute production.  Like top 10, but he seems to always be banged up.  He'll need health and to average over 20+ minutes at his age to make that contract of value.  He's capable on talent, but can his body hold up?

 

[Message Board User 12388]

lol wut

 

[SilasCoade 2620]

My son might be the greatest GM in NBA history. His 2k Mavs team is starting Doncic, Embiid, Giannis, Lillard, and Lebron. Just saying.

[ztejas 43190]

This sounds like it has legs. 

I've always rolled my eyes whenever he or Klutch are lauded. Representing LeBron has to be the easiest come up ever. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18502]

11 hours ago, ztejas said:

This sounds like it has legs. 

I've always rolled my eyes whenever he or Klutch are lauded. Representing LeBron has to be the easiest come up ever. 

I've always wondered what happens to Klutch after Lebron retires. They made their bones getting Lebron's teammates ridiculous contract extensions when they had him as leverage. I know they've branched out quite a bit , but what's next without having his brand to leverage?

[aggie08 21292]

6 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I've always wondered what happens to Klutch after Lebron retires. They made their bones getting Lebron's teammates ridiculous contract extensions when they had him as leverage. I know they've branched out quite a bit , but what's next without having his brand to leverage?

Half the movies I watch these days have "BRON" flash on the screen before they start...I imagine that Klutch has a pretty big hand in that pie as well?

[Catdaddyhorn 3438]

52 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I've always wondered what happens to Klutch after Lebron retires. They made their bones getting Lebron's teammates ridiculous contract extensions when they had him as leverage. I know they've branched out quite a bit , but what's next without having his brand to leverage?

Judging by the fact that their roster includes guys like Trae Young, Ben Simmons, Anthony Edwards, Draymond Green, Lonzo Ball and a shitload of other players who have absolutely nothing to do with Lebron I imagine they'll do ok. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[Mitch Cumsteen 18502]

1 minute ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Judging by the fact that their roster includes guys like Trae Young, Ben Simmons, Anthony Edwards, Draymond Green, London Ball and a shitload of other players who have absolutely nothing to do with Lebron I imagine they'll do ok. 

Sure. Right now it looks good but talk to me in 5-10 years. You mismanage some clients (see Nerlens Noel), you fuck up (or are unable to fix) the Marcus Morris deal with the Spurs and who knows what's next. 

[d2o 1602]

Does Nerlens bear any responsibility in that?    Even if his agent told him that he could get more there is always risk when you have an injury history like his.    Given the fact that he hadn't had a big deal yet I dont care who advised him differently, 70M+ should have got him to sign.     It will be interesting to see who was the one behind that decision

[ztejas 43190]

6 minutes ago, d2o said:

Does Nerlens bear any responsibility in that?    Even if his agent told him that he could get more there is always risk when you have an injury history like his.    Given the fact that he hadn't had a big deal yet I dont care who advised him differently, 70M+ should have got him to sign.     It will be interesting to see who was the one behind that decision

I'm sure that's what the defense will argue. The problem is that their relationship began by Rich telling Noel that he could get more money than 4/70 if he signed with them. Nerlens switched agents then Rich apparently basically quit representing him. There is some damning evidence coming out - like Rich telling him he's working on a deal with the 6ers and the 6ers FO saying they never heard from him. 

This feels like something Klutch will settle over rather than drag out and take a huge PR hit. It's not like Noel is suing them on a whim - I'm sure he's got some good lawyers telling him he should pursue this. 

[Aqua Buddha 14464]

Agent is merely an adviser.  You don’t have to take their bad advice.  However, if Noel was led openly lied to then he might have a case but that’s tough to prove.

[Kermit 3126]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Agent is merely an adviser.  You don’t have to take their bad advice.  However, if Noel was led openly lied to then he might have a case but that’s tough to prove.

They are way more than just an adviser. Dude is a contract negotiator. He’s supposed to act in the best interest of his client. Procure endorsements, make sure they aren’t fucking up financially. You don’t sign a contract for someone to represent you as an adviser. Advisers don’t get paid a percentage of an athlete’s contracts and endorsements. 

[ChickenSandwich 9795]

Is he being sued for sucking at his job or a violation of the contract he signed with the player?

[Aqua Buddha 14464]

1 hour ago, Kermit said:

They are way more than just an adviser. Dude is a contract negotiator. He’s supposed to act in the best interest of his client. Procure endorsements, make sure they aren’t fucking up financially. You don’t sign a contract for someone to represent you as an adviser. Advisers don’t get paid a percentage of an athlete’s contracts and endorsements. 

But he had an actual offer from Dallas and turned it down on the advice of his agent.  I don't know the details but this could be similar to Nic Cage suing his financial advisors because he blew his money.  At the end of the day, the client/principal is responsible for his own decisions.

Noel was offered $70M after averaging 8 points and 7 rebounds.  Regardless of what the agent says, Noel should have taken that.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Aqua Buddha

[conVINCEd 21468]

2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

But he had an actual offer from Dallas and turned it down on the advice of his agent.  I don't know the details but this could be similar to Nic Cage suing his financial advisors because he blew his money.  At the end of the day, the client/principal is responsible for his own decisions.

Noel was offered $70M after averaging 8 points and 7 rebounds.  Regardless of what the agent says, Noel should have taken that.

Thankfully he didn’t.

[ztejas 43190]

10 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Thankfully he didn’t.

The Mavs are pissing away twice as much on KP. What's the difference?

[conVINCEd 21468]

Just now, ztejas said:

The Mavs are pissing away twice as much on KP. What's the difference?

About 12 points and 3 rebounds.  Also the fact that we’re not overpaying both of them.

[ztejas 43190]

5 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

About 12 points and 3 rebounds.  Also the fact that we’re not overpaying both of them.

You're assuming you'd sign KP to that deal with the Nerlens contract on the books. 

He isn't that bad, anyway. He's had 2 pretty good seasons in a row now and played more minutes than KP last year.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

If Rich Paul wasn't returning teams phone calls on his lower level players that seems pretty bad.

He has screwed over a few of his non-superstar players.

 

 

[SilasCoade 2620]

Is Cleveland suddenly being competently managed? Their roster has a very solid mix of quality vets (Love & Rubio), intriguing young talent (Mobley, Sexton, Garland), and guys rounding into the peak of their careers (Markannen & Allen). I think that Love contract is one of the worst in the league, but if the roster around him is vaguely competent he can probably still be a productive player. With luck he plays himself into position as trade bait that they can turn into more young shooters and picks.

[d2o 1602]

Just now, Llogg said:

Is Cleveland suddenly being competently managed? Their roster has a very solid mix of quality vets (Love & Rubio), intriguing young talent (Mobley, Sexton, Garland), and guys rounding into the peak of their careers (Markannen & Allen). I think that Love contract is one of the worst in the league, but if the roster around him is vaguely competent he can probably still be a productive player. With luck he plays himself into position as trade bait that they can turn into more young shooters and picks.

They are reportedly working on a buyout for Love.   I imagine Rubio might not be too far behind

 

[ztejas 43190]

Quote

[Fischer] Sources confirm that the 76ers were indeed interested in landing Noel before Philadelphia shifted its sights to Al Horford after being unable to reach Rich Paul. The Clippers and Rockets also attempted to contact Rich Paul that same offseason, also to no avail.

This is not a good look. Klutch going to take a hit regardless of how this lawsuit turns out. 

[SilasCoade 2620]

5 minutes ago, d2o said:

They are reportedly working on a buyout for Love.   I imagine Rubio might not be too far behind

 

Wonder who tries to grab them up cheap off that. Love to Portland makes sense if he's on a discount. Rubio ring chasing at Phoenix? Pretty solid upgrade over Cam Payne, unless Playoff Payne is a more real thing than Bubble Herro.

[shadow_operative 15931]

2 hours ago, Llogg said:

Is Cleveland suddenly being competently managed? Their roster has a very solid mix of quality vets (Love & Rubio), intriguing young talent (Mobley, Sexton, Garland), and guys rounding into the peak of their careers (Markannen & Allen). I think that Love contract is one of the worst in the league, but if the roster around him is vaguely competent he can probably still be a productive player. With luck he plays himself into position as trade bait that they can turn into more young shooters and picks.

Love is no longer a solid vet, and the Cavs are still miles away from being competitive. 

[maninblack 7974]

Yeah Kevin fell off hard quite awhile ago

[SilasCoade 2620]

9 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Love is no longer a solid vet, and the Cavs are still miles away from being competitive. 

I mean he's not a 20/10 threat, but he's not Deandre Jordan either.

[d2o 1602]

14 minutes ago, Llogg said:

I mean he's not a 20/10 threat, but he's not Deandre Jordan either.

That shit he pulled this yr is completely unacceptable and would scare me off honestly.

 

 

[Message Board User 12388]

Love is who we thought he was.

The Cavs should give him the JR treatment and he can sit in his LA penthouse collecting those checks for the next 2 years while he gets nowhere near the team.

Even if he were healthy and motivated (which he isn't), he's not a guy who can play 20+ minutes a night anyway.  So give those minutes to the young talent and don't let his entitled soft ass infect the team culture.

 

[d2o 1602]

" Gimme all my chips."   It was pretty clear this is what he was when he took the full max extension from CLE after LBJ left.   

[BigOrange1 6403]

why does wanting every dollar that was promised to him = him being "entitled?"  did he force the cavs to give him that contract?

[SilasCoade 2620]

11 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Love is no longer a solid vet, and the Cavs are still miles away from being competitive. 

i said competent not competitive. they might end up with core that can be a playoff team in 2-4 years.

[Patrick Bateman 3874]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Love is who we thought he was.

The Cavs should give him the JR treatment and he can sit in his LA penthouse collecting those checks for the next 2 years while he gets nowhere near the team.

Even if he were healthy and motivated (which he isn't), he's not a guy who can play 20+ minutes a night anyway.  So give those minutes to the young talent and don't let his entitled soft ass infect the team culture.

 

If your front office feels as you do, why not buy him out for 100% of his contract value and let him move on???  Why is he entitled?  For agreeing to a contract and wanting it to be paid?

 

 

[Message Board User 12388]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

If your front office feels as you do, why not buy him out for 100% of his contract value and let him move on???  Why is he entitled?  For agreeing to a contract and wanting it to be paid?

 

 

For a few reasons:

1) It's not my money, but I'm sure Dan Gilbert isn't eager to write a check for $60 million all at once.

2) It sets bad precedent - I would have no interest in paying Kevin Love the entirety of his paycheck so that he can then latch on with GS or the Lakers.  The Pistons paid Blake Griffin how much money so that he could ring chase on the Nets?  Fuck that noise.  It's rewarding a guy for becoming a malcontent and sends a message I don't want the young guys to see.  Again, fuck that noise. 

Love is absolutely well within his rights to demand every penny of that $60 million, but it is obvious to everyone who has paying attention to the Cavs the last couple years (all 3 of us) that Love is no longer that interested in the grind and only marginally interested in basketball in general.  Go read the comments from Jerry Colangelo about Love last month re: his place on Team USA.  He has other interests and he's free to pursue them. 

But if he had any sense of self-awareness and pride, he would do the right then and come to a settlement with the Cavs (and I know the Cavs would be willing to work with him as long as his team is reasonable) that would be mutually beneficial.  Love ain't doing that because he's a selfish prick who was carried to a ring by Lebron and Kyrie.

So he wants all his money?  Fine.  Just stay home and collect those checks because at this point in your career you're a net negative to the team anyway, on the court and in the locker room.  And the league knows it which is why there is zero interest in trading for him (unless the Cavs throw in future assets).

 

[Patrick Bateman 3874]

15 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

For a few reasons:

1) It's not my money, but I'm sure Dan Gilbert isn't eager to write a check for $60 million all at once.

2) It sets bad precedent - I would have no interest in paying Kevin Love the entirety of his paycheck so that he can then latch on with GS or the Lakers.  The Pistons paid Blake Griffin how much money so that he could ring chase on the Nets?  Fuck that noise.  It's rewarding a guy for becoming a malcontent and sends a message I don't want the young guys to see.  Again, fuck that noise. 

Love is absolutely well within his rights to demand every penny of that $60 million, but it is obvious to everyone who has paying attention to the Cavs the last couple years (all 3 of us) that Love is no longer that interested in the grind and only marginally interested in basketball in general.  Go read the comments from Jerry Colangelo about Love last month re: his place on Team USA.  He has other interests and he's free to pursue them. 

But if he had any sense of self-awareness and pride, he would do the right then and come to a settlement with the Cavs (and I know the Cavs would be willing to work with him as long as his team is reasonable) that would be mutually beneficial.  Love ain't doing that because he's a selfish prick who was carried to a ring by Lebron and Kyrie.

So he wants all his money?  Fine.  Just stay home and collect those checks because at this point in your career you're a net negative to the team anyway, on the court and in the locker room.  And the league knows it which is why there is zero interest in trading for him (unless the Cavs throw in future assets).

 

Again, why is he a malcontent?  I've simply never heard of him being a terrible teammate or malcontent but if you have something legitimate, I'd welcome reading it.  I understand wanting to move on from bad money and old players (I'm a Spurs fan, it's what we do now), but it's not their fault your front office is terrible and your ownership is pretty awful too.  

[Message Board User 12388]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Again, why is he a malcontent?  I've simply never heard of him being a terrible teammate or malcontent but if you have something legitimate, I'd welcome reading it.  I understand wanting to move on from bad money and old players (I'm a Spurs fan, it's what we do now), but it's not their fault your front office is terrible and your ownership is pretty awful too.  

Nobody's excusing the Cavs front office, and Altman seems like a guy who should be a scout but was promoted above his competence level, but whatever happened 2 years ago (and 99% of Cavs fans knew the contract was dumb at the time) that doesn't mean the Cavs should bend over backwards for him.

As for his selfishness, Colangelo put Love's habits on blast last month with Team USA - essentially, he thought he was doing Love a favor for payment for past services rendered and he got burned after it was apparent to him that Love can't play anymore:

And I wouldn't be surprised if you and others (who understandably haven't watched a femtosecond of Cavs basketball over the last 2 years) haven't kept up, but Love has been beyond terrible for a while and exerts almost zero effort on the court and off the court.  He's resentful of the young guys and is in no way embracing a role as a mentor.

He's always hurt and still thinks of himself as a top 20 player in the NBA.  I don't know of any Cav fan that wants him near the team.

 

[Message Board User 12388]

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18502]

Lakers actually getting younger by signing Rondo. 

[Patrick Bateman 3874]

2 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Nobody's excusing the Cavs front office, and Altman seems like a guy who should be a scout but was promoted above his competence level, but whatever happened 2 years ago (and 99% of Cavs fans knew the contract was dumb at the time) that doesn't mean the Cavs should bend over backwards for him.

As for his selfishness, Colangelo put Love's habits on blast last month with Team USA - essentially, he thought he was doing Love a favor for payment for past services rendered and he got burned after it was apparent to him that Love can't play anymore:

And I wouldn't be surprised if you and others (who understandably haven't watched a femtosecond of Cavs basketball over the last 2 years) haven't kept up, but Love has been beyond terrible for a while and exerts almost zero effort on the court and off the court.  He's resentful of the young guys and is in no way embracing a role as a mentor.

He's always hurt and still thinks of himself as a top 20 player in the NBA.  I don't know of any Cav fan that wants him near the team.

 

So paying him to go away seems like a good alternative.  Admit your mistake, move on...... I don't know, seems weird that they wouldn't be able to come to some arrangement.  Freedom costs so I'm sure he'd relent at some point.  

 

[Catdaddyhorn 3438]

6 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Again, why is he a malcontent?  I've simply never heard of him being a terrible teammate or malcontent but if you have something legitimate, I'd welcome reading it.  I understand wanting to move on from bad money and old players (I'm a Spurs fan, it's what we do now), but it's not their fault your front office is terrible and your ownership is pretty awful too.  

Hmmm

Apparently you havent been paying attention 

And one more for the people in the back. 

 

[Message Board User 12388]

Yeah and it's a given in Cavdom that Love and TT were talking shit about Beilein to The Athletic and then showing him up in practices.  Just basically perpetuating the stereotype of an entitled prima donna descendent of a beach boy and NBA player born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8795]

 

Does rondos family just stay in LA and let him live out of a suitcase?

[BradInATX 9208]

Imagine thinking a guy who just wants to play out his contract is a malcontent.

"How dare he want to live by the terms of a mutually agreed upon business agreement!"

[gmr548 16427]

None of you would take less money from your employer than contractually owed in Kevin Love's situation. It is unreasonable and stupid to simply expect him to do so.

[ChickenSandwich 9795]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

None of you would take less money from your employer than contractually owed in Kevin Love's situation. It is unreasonable and stupid to simply expect him to do so.

1234. Nothing stopping them from paying him the $60 mill tomorrow. He can throw them a bone and say he will deduct two years worth of interest he earns in his savings account. Lol

[Aqua Buddha 14464]

FUPM.  Contracts are contracts for a reason.  Steve Nash did the same thing to the Lakers.  Why would they voluntarily take less money for the team?

[d2o 1602]

19 hours ago, BradInATX said:

Imagine thinking a guy who just wants to play out his contract is a malcontent.

"How dare he want to live by the terms of a mutually agreed upon business agreement!"


 

He's not a malcontent because of that fact.   He most certainly is a malcontent though as the vids above show.

[d2o 1602]

3 hours ago, gmr548 said:

None of you would take less money from your employer than contractually owed in Kevin Love's situation. It is unreasonable and stupid to simply expect him to do so.

If you wanted to go work somewhere else that you thought was better most would.

[Vic Mackey 46856]

Haha

[gmr548 16427]

12 hours ago, d2o said:

If you wanted to go work somewhere else that you thought was better most would.

Well if that's what he wanted to do, he'd do it, wouldn't he? TF is your point?