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2022 Fall Camp: Drippin'


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12 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

I got no issues playing Broughton on 3rd downs and in pass rushing situations. But I have seen nothing from him to suggest he can plug gaps to stop the run. He plays with some of the highest pad level I’ve ever seen from a defensive tackle.

agree. He is an all or nothing guy. He is really athletic, always has been. He makes a play and penetrates or he gets washed out. There is very little middle ground. 

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1 minute ago, Hookem2147 said:

247 brought this up a few weeks ago and I pretty much dismissed it because they were the only one, but IT mentioned it recently as well so it piqued my interest.

They said they saw/heard that the DL is doing a lot more penetrating vs a lot of the two gaping stuff we tried to do last year. I know 247 mentioned that Bo Davis got offered to go to LSU (and Florida I think) this offseason and part of what got him to stay is Sark said he could coach/deploy the DL in whatever way that he wanted. 
 

Obviously we have a few guys who could probably do well with penetrating or two gapping, but we also have a quite a few who definitely do not fit two gapping (Broughton, Collins when he’s on the interior, Sweat).

Definitely will be something to watch closely this season.

kind of funny, all of them were brought in to 2 gap. Broughton and Collins were basically the perfect 4i recruit. Not sure why Broughton and Collins turned out so soft.

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5 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

kind of funny, all of them were brought in to 2 gap. Broughton and Collins were basically the perfect 4i recruit. Not sure why Broughton and Collins turned out so soft.

This is what’s striking to me, too.  And if Sweat can’t play in a 2 gap scheme at 340, what is he supposed to do?  He’s not exactly John Randle shooting gaps like greased lightning.

We have gigantic guys at DL who can’t play in a 2 gap scheme?  That means they either don’t know what they’re doing and are thinking way too much, or they’re outrageously soft.  And, honestly, Broughton and his straight vertical pad level is the only guy who really does strike me as too soft.  The other guys look more lethargic/slow or like their wires were crossed more than they were just getting obliterated.  

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7 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

This is what’s striking to me, too.  And if Sweat can’t play in a 2 gap scheme at 340, what is he supposed to do?  He’s not exactly John Randle shooting gaps like greased lightning.

We have gigantic guys at DL who can’t play in a 2 gap scheme?  That means they either don’t know what they’re doing and are thinking way too much, or they’re outrageously soft.  And, honestly, Broughton and his straight vertical pad level is the only guy who really does strike me as too soft.  The other guys look more like their wires were crossed more than they were just getting obliterated.  

I kind of have Collins, Coburn and Sweat in the same bucket. I am not sure it is soft, but I know they cant run 5 plays in a row without an oxygen tank. Not sure if it conditioning or conditional effort. Murphy starting over Sweat should be a complete embarrassment to him (that isnt a knock on Murphy). 

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15 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

kind of funny, all of them were brought in to 2 gap. Broughton and Collins were basically the perfect 4i recruit. Not sure why Broughton and Collins turned out so soft.

Well playing as a 3 tech is different than a 4i. Both those guys are 290 so asking them to two gap on interior is different than having them head up on an OT.

Maybe @Burt Macklin can chime in here I know he’s explained before which style suits which players better. 

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17 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

This is what’s striking to me, too.  And if Sweat can’t play in a 2 gap scheme at 340, what is he supposed to do?  He’s not exactly John Randle shooting gaps like greased lightning.

We have gigantic guys at DL who can’t play in a 2 gap scheme?  That means they either don’t know what they’re doing and are thinking way too much, or they’re outrageously soft.  And, honestly, Broughton and his straight vertical pad level is the only guy who really does strike me as too soft.  The other guys look more lethargic/slow or like their wires were crossed more than they were just getting obliterated.  

Sweat is athletic enough to where he could probably do both now that I think about it more.

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8 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Well playing as a 3 tech is different than a 4i. Both those guys are 290 so asking them to two gap on interior is different than having them head up on an OT.

Maybe @Burt Macklin can chime in here I know he’s explained before which style suits which players better. 

We try to make so many excuses. Started with Ian and the IT guys. REst of the fan base just parrots that. People act like they are NFL guys, but if you move them over 1 gap they cant be expected to be a good college player or ask them to do anything other than shoot a gap they cant do it.  Saying a guy like Sweat cant 2 gap is crazy. He is 6'4" and 340 pounds. Its easier to say something like its all scheme, than to just be honest and say they play like fuckin jags. 

3 tech and 4i are different. 3 tech is outside shoulder of the guard and the 41 in head up. 

Edited by Codaxx
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8 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

We try to make so many excuses. Started with Ian and the IT guys. REst of the fan base just parrots that. People act like they are NFL guys, but if you move them over 1 gap they cant be expected to be a good college player or ask them to do anything other than shoot a gap they cant do it.  Saying a guy like Sweat cant 2 gap is crazy. He is 6'4" and 340 pounds. Its easier to say something like its all scheme, than to just be honest and say they play like fuckin jags. 

3 tech and 4i are different. 3 tech is outside shoulder of the guard and the 41 in head up. 

Deploying guys correctly is pretty much half the battle in football….at all levels.

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Does anyone else think it's kinda crazy how high the national expectations are for Ewers this soon? As others have said, he's basically a true freshman. I didn't hear a peep when Bryce Young redshirted (granted, Mac Jones was very good). No one expects Weigman or Klubnik to start at any point this season. Yet for some reason, it's a huge failure if Ewers isn't ready week 1? 

In fact, I can't even name a single true freshman QB who started week 1. Not Lawrence, not Fields, not Rattler, not Caleb, etc.

I know, I know, Ewers isn't technically a true freshman. But just like all true freshman, he's played 4 seasons of football since he entered high school and like them, he's learning a new system this year. Being a redshirt typically means you had a year to learn the playbook. It also typically means you had a Senior season as a starter in HS. Not the case here.

Anyway, thanks for attending my ted talk. 

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11 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Sweat is athletic enough to where he could probably do both now that I think about it more.

You generally want to go 1 gap with players that are quick. Those are the guys that shoot gaps well. Rams ask their DL to 2 gap, but they will  move Donalson around and let him shoot gaps. You generally want big strong guys to 2 gap. Guy like Gilbert "grave digger" Brown is a good example. 

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3 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

You generally want to go 1 gap with players that are quick. Those are the guys that shoot gaps well. Rams ask their DL to 2 gap, but they will  move Donalson around and let him shoot gaps. You generally want big strong guys to 2 gap. Guy like Gilbert "grave digger" Brown is a good example. 

Just fucking run what works best for our personnel and depth. Fuck being one or the other. 

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4 hours ago, UncleSonny said:

This is aggy as hell. The cognitive dissonance required to state and believe this paragraph is staggering (and I’m actually optimistic defense will be better than last season). 

Perhaps, but there's not a lot in his premise that I take issue with.  Getting Coburn replaced is something I've wanted for years.  A defense with DTD, if reports are to be believed that he is legit, instead of Luke Brock is already miles better.  Cherry on top being a secondary without BJ Foster and how can you not improve at least 10 spots in the national defensive rankings?

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2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Just fucking run what works best for our personnel and depth. Fuck being one or the other. 

THat is kind of my point. Lets not pretend 6'2 350 Coburn or 6'4" 350 Sweat are players built to shoot gaps. These fuckers need to step up and stop making excuses. Poor LB play does not help anyone look good and exacerbated the situation last year, but the DL isnt playing anywhere near their ability.  Maybe improved LB will help, but at some point we have to start calling a sspade a spade. 9.95ers were talkign about what a strength interior DL was not long ago and now all of them look like Murphy will pass them by. 

Edited by Codaxx
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Just now, Codaxx said:

THat is kind of my point. Lets not pretend 6'2 350 Coburn or 6'4" 350 Sweat are players built to shoot gaps. These fuckers need to step up and stop makign excuses. Dont get me wrong, poor LB play does not help anyone look good. 

I think sweat has the athleticism to do so. Maybe not Coburn. But 2 gapping most of the game is going to get those guys beat down and I don’t think we have the depth. The guys we recruited in 2022 don’t fit that 2 gap mold either imo

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9 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I think sweat has the athleticism to do so. Maybe not Coburn. But 2 gapping most of the game is going to get those guys beat down and I don’t think we have the depth. The guys we recruited in 2022 don’t fit that 2 gap mold either imo

We dont have depth? That is the only position on defense with depth. Orlando recruited these guys to fit in his system and to 2 gap occasionally.  This is exactly what I am talking about. It easier to say "no depth", than to ask why havent we seen any of these guys (Sweat, Coburn, Collins, Broughton (maybe he is stepping up)) get any better the last 2-3 years. My suspicion is you want to believe it is all scheme, because that can be changed easily. 

Edited by Codaxx
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5 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

We dont have depth? That is the only position on defense with depth. This is exactly what I am talking about. It easier to say "no depth", than to ask why havent we seen any of these guys (Sweat, Coburn, Collins, Broughton (maybe he is stepping up)) get any better the last 2-3 years. My suspicion is you want to believe it is all scheme, because that can be changed easily. 

Collins, the guy who is more potential than anything? He's strength isn't 2 gapping. His strength is his athleticism for his side. 

Broughton, I'll quote Bobby on:

"Vernon Broughton just has a really hard time anchoring in the run game and gets washed out really easily and it effects others.

As a pass rusher, Broughton may be a plus-player on the interior. As a run defender, he appears to be a liability.

T’Vondre Sweat is running behind Broughton but routinely was disruptive. Sweat may be the team’s most disruptive interior player but he’s currently running second team. Perhaps that’s the motivation needed for Sweat to keep generating results."


As I said earlier, the 2022 interior guys we recruited skillsets fit 1 gapping over 2 gapping. 

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7 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Collins, the guy who is more potential than anything? He's strength isn't 2 gapping. His strength is his athleticism for his side. 

Broughton, I'll quote Bobby on:

"Vernon Broughton just has a really hard time anchoring in the run game and gets washed out really easily and it effects others.

As a pass rusher, Broughton may be a plus-player on the interior. As a run defender, he appears to be a liability.

T’Vondre Sweat is running behind Broughton but routinely was disruptive. Sweat may be the team’s most disruptive interior player but he’s currently running second team. Perhaps that’s the motivation needed for Sweat to keep generating results."


As I said earlier, the 2022 interior guys we recruited skillsets fit 1 gapping over 2 gapping. 

I know where Broughton is now, but that is what we are talking about. Him and Collins were perfect fits at 4i as recruits. Go back and read Bobby and the IT guys talk about those guys when they were recruited. Broughton 6'4'' and 300 pounds. There is no excuse for him in year 3 to be this weak against the run. You have to ask why is Banks physically stronger coming out of HS than Broughton is today with 3 years in the program. Instead of talking about pad level, effort, and strength on these guys, we say none fit the system. Keep in mind, not single X's and O's guy was upset about the PK pick. They loved it. PK's system hasnt changed and the players havent changed. 

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7 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Damn, we're at "our pets' heads are falling off" level of despair and depression, and we're...checks calendar.... 2.5 weeks from the first game.  Impressive. 

Bigger, faster, stronger - if the team isn‘t, at least our meltdowns are

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26 minutes ago, Tex-19 said:

Does anyone else think it's kinda crazy how high the national expectations are for Ewers this soon? As others have said, he's basically a true freshman. I didn't hear a peep when Bryce Young redshirted (granted, Mac Jones was very good). No one expects Weigman or Klubnik to start at any point this season. Yet for some reason, it's a huge failure if Ewers isn't ready week 1? 

In fact, I can't even name a single true freshman QB who started week 1. Not Lawrence, not Fields, not Rattler, not Caleb, etc.

I know, I know, Ewers isn't technically a true freshman. But just like all true freshman, he's played 4 seasons of football since he entered high school and like them, he's learning a new system this year. Being a redshirt typically means you had a year to learn the playbook. It also typically means you had a Senior season as a starter in HS. Not the case here.

Anyway, thanks for attending my ted talk. 

People say the comp for Ewers is a true freshman, and he is the age of a true freshman, but he also spent an entire season practicing / learning the game around a hugely successful offensive scheme at Ohio State. So I'd put him more in the redshirt camp.

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11 minutes ago, burdine said:

Ewers missed a good chunk of OSU summer program.  Not much install going on during the season.

Closest useful comp is to a freshman early enrollee IMO.

This.  From a pure experience perspective he would have probably been better off starting in high school vs running scout team @ OSU

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12 minutes ago, burdine said:

Ewers missed a good chunk of OSU summer program.  Not much install going on during the season.

Closest useful comp is to a freshman early enrollee IMO.

 

19 minutes ago, mwaadeeb said:

People say the comp for Ewers is a true freshman, and he is the age of a true freshman, but he also spent an entire season practicing / learning the game around a hugely successful offensive scheme at Ohio State. So I'd put him more in the redshirt camp.

I think some (I’m an asshole so I’m one of them) want an ROI on him in a sense. He was heavily recruited and written up (accolades and such.) I am a fan of anyone trying to make money early and often. I just don’t think it benefits the QB position to leave HS early. I realize he cashed in early and that’s great. So because of that my expectations are much higher than say a Colt McCoy or a Major or a Sam. I expect him to beat out Card in short order because of his heralded abilities. I want to see how well all we’ve read and heard about him translates. Im rooting for him to succeed. That would be great. I admit I’m harsh. But that’s because of his last two years. It’s show business now so show me what you got. I do get his age and learning curve but I want to see improvement day after day and am hoping and expecting we will. But there are things that bother me (not red flags just things I’m definitely gonna bitch about and point) if we don’t see it. Basically, I’m just covering my bases. 

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1 minute ago, Domedriver said:

I still say we should unleash the Power I 2 TE Smash Mouth with Brooks and Blue in front of Bijan and run it down Bama’s throat!  Now that RoJo may be back, do this with him at the QB as a WildCat.

Great idea. We will only lose by 60 then.

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22 minutes ago, burdine said:

Ewers missed a good chunk of OSU summer program.  Not much install going on during the season.

Closest useful comp is to a freshman early enrollee IMO.

he hasnt played in about 3 years he only played a game or two his Junior year and then reclassed. 

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3 minutes ago, Dignan said:

This may have been mentioned, but this HAS to be a good sign. Caesar's Sports Book recently updated their Heisman odds. Ewers odds have actually improved: https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Preseason-college-football-Heisman-odds-updated-for-2022-season-191563788/#191563788_1

From +4000 to +3500?  Not sure how significant is that.

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4 minutes ago, Dignan said:

This may have been mentioned, but this HAS to be a good sign. Caesar's Sports Book recently updated their Heisman odds. Ewers odds have actually improved: https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Preseason-college-football-Heisman-odds-updated-for-2022-season-191563788/#191563788_1

Did that bookie even watch the open practice?!?! Pfffffffttttt /s

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I don't have a clue what's going on with the defensive tackles.  I've followed fall camps for a lot of years and usually I can kind of piece together info from posters and $9.95's and form some kind of opinion,  might not be right but at least I have an opinion.  Not this year with the defense and especially the DT's. 

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55 minutes ago, mwaadeeb said:

People say the comp for Ewers is a true freshman, and he is the age of a true freshman, but he also spent an entire season practicing / learning the game around a hugely successful offensive scheme at Ohio State. So I'd put him more in the redshirt camp.

Like others, I disagree. He didn't reclassify until August, then spent the season as 4th/3rd string which I assume means very few reps during the season. Plus he missed a year of actual starting experience in high school. Honestly might have even be worse for development than just playing his senior year.

Plus, one of the biggest differences about being a "redshirt" freshman is the extra year learning the system. Obviously he doesn't have that advantage.

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