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Posted

Let’s wash the nasty taste resulting from the Gateway and Robert Morris foolishness with this kind of Christian witness:

A Nebraska church has helped raise over $500,000 to pay off the medical bills of local residents, with the proceeds going to help around 500 households in the surrounding community. 

First-Plymouth Congregational Church of Lincoln raised the total by Easter Sunday, receiving donations from around 10,000 people, many of whom did not belong to the congregation.

The total was raised throughout the 14-month campaign, with church leadership initially thinking that their efforts would only bring in around $8,000.

"Sometimes love has to be expressed in actions. We have had an initiative all year that is just love on the move," Senior Pastor Rev. Jim Keck said in his Easter sermon on Sunday. "The church decided that there were too many homes right in our neighborhood that were saddled with medical debt. ... The church decided that every dime that went into the collection plate ... would go to forgive the medical debt of homes right here in central Lincoln."

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Posted
23 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

See the rest of my posts. You (and Hitchens) want to paint religion as the root cause when atrocities are perpetrated by the far right. It’s not, as evidenced by the fact atrocities from the far left have been committed (and at a far greater scale, though this is due to technological advances in killing rather than lack of effort in earlier societies), where not only is religion not used to justify the acts, it is violently suppressed by the perpetrators. 
 

That clip from Hitchens is intellectually lazy and one long logical fallacy. 

You’re mistaken. I specifically said, “I’m sure there are atheists out there who rape little children just like the Catholic priests and Baptist ministers do. But they’re not doing it because they’re atheists anymore than the Christians are doing it because they’re Christians.” That’s the opposite of what you’re accusing me of doing. But it’s also true that religious people do a lot of really shitty things because of their religion, and have throughout history. You can’t deny that. They also do really shitty things because they’re shifty people and use their religion as an excuse, like suppressing the rights of black and brown people, of women, and of members of the LGBTQ community.

Back to the example of Soviet Russia one last time. Any of the other examples you mentioned could also be used, as could others like North Korea under the Kims. Atheism means you don’t believe in god. Period. That’s it. That’s all it means. It’s not an ideology. It’s not a belief system. It doesn’t command you to do anything. It doesn’t command you to kill the believers. Totalitarianism, authoritarianism, dictatorship...those things command you to go kill the enemies of your ideology. Don’t let yourself get fooled into confusing atheism with Stalinism, Leninism, etc. We bring up the atrocities committed in the name of someone’s god, or with the sanction of the church, because those things have happened in such great numbers throughout history, numbers too great to count, that to point to instances where a totalitarian regime tried to outlaw religion in order to enforce the primacy of the state, just to impugn atheism as being the cause of the associated atrocities, is intellectual dishonesty of the highest order. You can’t say a lack of religion leads to atrocities when the presence of religion so consistently fails to prevent them at best and instigates them at worst. That’s why it’s a bullshit argument to bring up the godless commies when talking about atheism. It’s not a good faith (no pun intended) criticism of disbelief. And it’s always used by believers as a defense of belief.

It’s not hard to understand but it requires you to use the part of your brain that uses logic and reason, not the part that believes in god. 

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Posted
20 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

There are places I want to visit in Montana, but when I read about what they are doing to the trans representative and not even allowing her to speak, well, I will just not go there. My God what a bunch of backwards ghouls picking on a small group of people just to score some political points. A lot of our fellow citizens really do not deserve to breathe the same air as the rest of us. Montana is what religious fundamentalists look like. These are mentally broken, deranged and unwell people. 

Idaho says, “Hold my beer.”

Posted
44 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Let’s wash the nasty taste resulting from the Gateway and Robert Morris foolishness with this kind of Christian witness:

A Nebraska church has helped raise over $500,000 to pay off the medical bills of local residents, with the proceeds going to help around 500 households in the surrounding community. 

First-Plymouth Congregational Church of Lincoln raised the total by Easter Sunday, receiving donations from around 10,000 people, many of whom did not belong to the congregation.

The total was raised throughout the 14-month campaign, with church leadership initially thinking that their efforts would only bring in around $8,000.

"Sometimes love has to be expressed in actions. We have had an initiative all year that is just love on the move," Senior Pastor Rev. Jim Keck said in his Easter sermon on Sunday. "The church decided that there were too many homes right in our neighborhood that were saddled with medical debt. ... The church decided that every dime that went into the collection plate ... would go to forgive the medical debt of homes right here in central Lincoln."

This is what Francis of Assisi meant by preaching the Gospel without using words.

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Posted
20 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

An ape is incapable of imagining or conceptualizing something it has not seen or heard. Apes respond to particular things in their environment. 

An ape doesn’t understand what it means when you point at something but a dog does. It‘s because dogs evolved by interacting with humans, they wouldn’t exist without us, but I’ve always found that interesting.

Only the human brain has evolved to the point where it is conscious of its own mortality. As the Bible puts it, we’ve eaten from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. That’s what sets us apart from all the other animals, even our closest cousins the apes. I also think it’s interesting that our ancient ancestors had some concept of that evolution. Obviously the evolution of human intelligence from animal intelligence was a process. It didn’t happen overnight. There wasn’t a line between one set of parents who didn’t possess human consciousness and their offspring who did. (I’ve considered that there must be some comedy to be found in a comic strip that imagines there were. I just lack the creativity to find it.)

Even though it was a process, that experience must have been transmitted down through the generations, even to the point were we knew there was a time when we didn’t experience pain during childbirth, back before we evolved to walk on two legs. Whether at some point our consciousness was similar to that of modern apes and to what extent they’ve evolved on a divergent path is unknowable. But it’s an interesting subject that might be suitable for its own thread. Young earth creationists need not participate. 

Posted
36 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Even though it was a process, that experience must have been transmitted down through the generations, even to the point were we knew there was a time when we didn’t experience pain during childbirth, back before we evolved to walk on two legs.

We didn't evolve to walk on two legs.  It's an engineering design problem.

 

Posted
14 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I was hoping someone would bring this up.  Several indigenous tribes have a matrilineal and/or matriarchal social structure infused with their religious practices.  (Particularly the Hopi and Cherokee.) Are these societies better at “keeping the peace” than their patriarchal counterparts?  Someone should do a study. Perhaps there is an argument to be made. 

The Cherokee elected Wilma Mankiller as the Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation at one point.  They were putting somebody in their place.

Posted
12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Take. Their.  Tax.  Exemption.

But I have been told if they are taxed, the will become political and we will be living under a theocracy.   Heck, we might even lose access to medication....    

Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

You’re mistaken. I specifically said, “I’m sure there are atheists out there who rape little children just like the Catholic priests and Baptist ministers do. But they’re not doing it because they’re atheists anymore than the Christians are doing it because they’re Christians.” That’s the opposite of what you’re accusing me of doing. But it’s also true that religious people do a lot of really shitty things because of their religion, and have throughout history. You can’t deny that. They also do really shitty things because they’re shifty people and use their religion as an excuse, like suppressing the rights of black and brown people, of women, and of members of the LGBTQ community.

Back to the example of Soviet Russia one last time. Any of the other examples you mentioned could also be used, as could others like North Korea under the Kims. Atheism means you don’t believe in god. Period. That’s it. That’s all it means. It’s not an ideology. It’s not a belief system. It doesn’t command you to do anything. It doesn’t command you to kill the believers. Totalitarianism, authoritarianism, dictatorship...those things command you to go kill the enemies of your ideology. Don’t let yourself get fooled into confusing atheism with Stalinism, Leninism, etc. We bring up the atrocities committed in the name of someone’s god, or with the sanction of the church, because those things have happened in such great numbers throughout history, numbers too great to count, that to point to instances where a totalitarian regime tried to outlaw religion in order to enforce the primacy of the state, just to impugn atheism as being the cause of the associated atrocities, is intellectual dishonesty of the highest order. You can’t say a lack of religion leads to atrocities when the presence of religion so consistently fails to prevent them at best and instigates them at worst. That’s why it’s a bullshit argument to bring up the godless commies when talking about atheism. It’s not a good faith (no pun intended) criticism of disbelief. And it’s always used by believers as a defense of belief.

It’s not hard to understand but it requires you to use the part of your brain that uses logic and reason, not the part that believes in god. 

Religion is about amassing wealth and power and selling you an idea.  Some are true believers.  But the Osteens are not.  God is a green rectangle for many christians.   Jesus was a hippie, but the bible is a cudgel.   Those wars were not about faith.  They were about plunder, land, money, and power.   

Edited by Nivek
Posted
54 minutes ago, Nivek said:

But I have been told if they are taxed, the will become political and we will be living under a theocracy.   Heck, we might even lose access to medication....    

I don’t think Twice is for taxing churches in general like you, but for removing the exemption for those who violate its terms, like this one.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Nivek said:

But I have been told if they are taxed, the will become political and we will be living under a theocracy.   Heck, we might even lose access to medication....    

As I edited to add, I broadly support tax exemptions for religious orgs.  But there are rules.  Follow them and enforce them.  Do this and reap the whirlwind.

Posted

I read this today and thought it was interesting commentary on the psyche and personalities of people and generally aligns to the unhappiness and bitterness seen in people online and IRL who are anti-theists:

Quote

 

What do very happy people have in common? The Wall Street Journal followed up with the 12% of respondents in a WSJ-NORC survey who called themselves “very happy”  and asked them what they were all about. Here are the traits they share.

Companionship: 67% of the happiest people said that marriage was very important to them, compared to 43% of overall respondents.

Religion: Two-thirds of very happy people characterized themselves as moderately or very religious. The overall share: less than half.

Closer to death: People 60 and over accounted for 44% of the happiest group, but represented 30% of total survey respondents.

Gym rats: Fitness was a common interest among very happy people.

What doesn’t seem to matter to being very happy? Political party affiliation or avoiding following politics.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/happiest-people-america-poll-ef7c854c?st=cutgv2qdpi7pk67&reflink=share_mobilewebshare

Work out your own happiness with fear and trembling, I guess.

Posted
1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Religion is about amassing wealth and power and selling you an idea.  Some are true believers.  But the Osteens are not.  God is a green rectangle for many christians.   Jesus was a hippie, but the bible is a cudgel.   Those wars were not about faith.  They were about plunder, land, money, and power.   

It can be, but religion has been around a lot longer than money. Religion can be about explaining things you don’t understand like what the sun and the moon are. It can be a way of teaching your kids how to behave when no one else is watching. It can be about worshipping your dead ancestors, the animals you depend upon for food, or the big volcano on your island. Religion has been around longer than all the religions practiced today. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

I read this today and thought it was interesting commentary on the psyche and personalities of people and generally aligns to the unhappiness and bitterness seen in people online and IRL who are anti-theists:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/happiest-people-america-poll-ef7c854c?st=cutgv2qdpi7pk67&reflink=share_mobilewebshare

Work out your own happiness with fear and trembling, I guess.

TBH my bitterness towards religion has moreso been seeing places that exist to show "the LOVE of God" turned into a shelter and place of comfort christian fucking nationalism. Much of what you would call my "anti-theism" comes from that betrayal of trust and a general disillusionment with seeing people who you thought were god-fearing good men act like fucking fascists.

I guess if you're able to ignore and turn a blind eye to that ugliness, you would be much happier

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Nivek said:

Religion is about amassing wealth and power and selling you an idea.  Some are true believers.  But the Osteens are not.  God is a green rectangle for many christians.   Jesus was a hippie, but the bible is a cudgel.   Those wars were not about faith.  They were about plunder, land, money, and power.   

I have a friend here that is a really nice guy. I remember him mentioning he likes listening to Osteen. I kinda smiled and said “Well I suppose he is a good motivational speaker.” The Osteens of the world were here before him and they’ll be here after he is done using Jesus to grift his way to millions more. I have met one mega church pastor in Stephen Furtick. I have said here that I thought he came across as a normal guy and we had a pleasant conversation for about 15 minutes. He may one day turn out to be a horror show of a human being, but that’s up to him. 
 

All the wars fought in the last two millennia that were done in the name of Jesus were exactly as you describe them. People are prideful and greedy and enough is never good enough. I have said this to many people over the years, but if Jesus came back tomorrow and attempted to enter a Christian church they’d likely turn him away because of how he looked, smelled or was dressed. The mission of Christianity has been lost on a lot of folks. Not all, but when the number is in the millions you have an issue that is not going away in any of our lifetimes.

Edited by UpperWestside
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Posted
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

TBH my bitterness towards religion has moreso been seeing places that exist to show "the LOVE of God" turned into a shelter and place of comfort christian fucking nationalism.

I completely understand this. I think that what was once done in the dark is now done in broad daylight and put right in the storefront window in too many “Houses of God.” If a church is espousing things that run contrary to what the New Testament actually says, it’s a good bet you should stay far away from that place. Seeing what “Christians” will do in God’s name to inflict emotional or physical pain on those they deem to be lesser-thans is an absolute horror show. We get one life and people choose to waste it inflicting pain on others to make themselves feel better.
 

I also think the most well-adjusted and happy person I have ever crossed paths with was a man I worked with pre-Covid named Mohammed. He was an African man of the Islamic faith from Gambia if memory serves correct. He was in his late 50’s and was a cook and I asked him how he was always so happy and he said to me “What do I have to be unhappy about? God is good to me.” That moment has stuck with me for the simplicity and poignancy of how he said it. More of us need to be like that man whether we are religious or not. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

It’s a cult. It always was.

not trying to be pedantic, but aren't cults where the leader is alive and religions are when they're dead? I think these people *think* they're followers of christ. to me it's still just old fashioned religion. nothing has changed but the media

Posted
7 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

not trying to be pedantic, but aren't cults where the leader is alive and religions are when they're dead?

Correct. 

But if someone you knew was a People’s Temple follower or a Branch Davidian follower, and they’re like no, it’s not crazy, it’s not a cult, my leader is dead, it’s a religion now. Would that make it better?

The only reason Christianity isn’t viewed as a crazy cult on the level of Scientology or Heaven’s gate, is because Christians murdered all their detractors over the past 2000 years and engrained themselves into the fabric of society.

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Posted
4 hours ago, Pancho said:

 

These people…These people are the ones who absolutely disgust me and I find myself adamantly opposed to. That is some blatant false teaching going on there and all while invoking Christ’s name. Christ would have ZERO to do with people like that. 
 

The next logical step an insane human being like that takes is not only wanting to have control of everything and everyone, but to also persecute non-believers in every way possible. That is some storefront window Christo-fascism. There are other countries with different belief systems that do this to the lesser-thans in their country and it is no more right. Human beings are taught to hate the world over and religion is an easy way to infuse hatred and we are better than others when you hear stuff like that. 

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Posted

I believe it is prudent to objectively evaluate religious people with the same probity we would members of any tribe. The point at which we surrender to the temptation to no longer see individuals but to judge tribes in the most parochial way, we run the risk of seeing every member of the group as irredeemable. 

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Posted
On 4/25/2023 at 9:49 PM, Satchel said:

I believe it is prudent to objectively evaluate religious people with the same probity we would members of any tribe. The point at which we surrender to the temptation to no longer see individuals but to judge tribes in the most parochial way, we run the risk of seeing every member of the group as irredeemable. 

I read an interesting article from WSJ that gives hope that the next generation (the young adults and youth of today) will be MORE spiritual/religious than we have now. Which makes sense to me and passes the eyeball test with my lived experiences. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-surprising-surge-of-faith-among-young-people-424220bd

Quote

 

A greater share of young adults say they believe in a higher power or God.

About one-third of 18-to-25-year-olds say they believe—more than doubt—the existence of a higher power, up from about one-quarter in 2021, according to a recent survey of young adults. The findings, based on December polling, are part of an annual report on the state of religion and youth from the Springtide Research Institute, a nonpartisan nonprofit.

Young adults, theologians and church leaders attribute the increase in part to the need for people to believe in something beyond themselves after three years of loss. 

For many young people, the pandemic was the first crisis they faced. It affected everyone to some degree, from the loss of family and friends to uncertainty about jobs and daily life. In many ways, it aged young Americans and they are now turning to the same comfort previous generations have turned to during tragedies for healing and comfort

 

Anti-theists aren't gonna like it.

Posted

The abrahamic religions are so fucking bizarre to me. There is so much crazy in the various books. Seriously, if aliens came to earth and told you these stories, changing the names like Abraham and Jesus to Zork and Xorian, you would think they are ABSOLUTELY INSANE. Just like how Christian’s view things like Scientology as insane. They are all crazy and weird.

Y’all are some strange motherfuckers.

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Posted
21 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

The abrahamic religions are so fucking bizarre to me. There is so much crazy in the various books. Seriously, if aliens came to earth and told you these stories, changing the names like Abraham and Jesus to Zork and Xorian, you would think they are ABSOLUTELY INSANE. Just like how Christian’s view things like Scientology as insane. They are all crazy and weird.

Y’all are some strange motherfuckers.

Ultimate reality is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit; 3 Gods yet 1 God.

Everything that you and I know waterfalls from this community of Gods in the Godhead loving one another, dancing like 3 particles in an infinite dance where they have for all time glorified and loved one another, before our creation.

Think about what I just said now and try to process it. We will never fully understand it, the nature of the Triune God.

If you were going to simply invent a story for a religion-- you wouldn't have chosen this framework. You'd figure something else that's easier to sell.

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Posted
Ultimate reality is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit; 3 Gods yet 1 God.
Everything that you and I know waterfalls from this community of Gods in the Godhead loving one another, dancing like 3 particles in an infinite dance where they have for all time glorified and loved one another, before our creation.
Think about what I just said now and try to process it. We will never fully understand it, the nature of the Triune God.
If you were going to simply invent a story for a religion-- you wouldn't have chosen this framework. You'd figure something else that's easier to sell.

Wrong.

But if that’s how you have to sell it to yourself to keep the faith, have at it.

Right now the Christian right that wants this nation to be a theocracy believe Satan got Tucker fired. Insanity.

5cc8a730d22d470fdfbe5f4e31edbd12.jpg
Posted
6 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:


Wrong.

But if that’s how you have to sell it to yourself to keep the faith, have at it.

Right now the Christian right that wants this nation to be a theocracy believe Satan got Tucker fired. Insanity.

5cc8a730d22d470fdfbe5f4e31edbd12.jpg

I'll take your word on all that, I don't know your friends or what is going on with all that, as I don't care and am not the target demo.

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Posted
On 4/23/2023 at 12:44 AM, 956 Worldwide said:

An ape is incapable of imagining or conceptualizing something it has not seen or heard. Apes respond to particular things in their environment. 

 

 

We have absolutely no way to know that. Especially with the certainty of speaking it as fact. There are behaviors in the animal kingdom, including with non human primates, that we cannot explain with current technology. 

Some animals do show examples of behaviors that could possibly denote an ability to reason and grieve, and we can't conclude there isn't some ability to worship in their own way. 

One example is a "crow funeral". We observe behaviors of crows similar to the human reaction to death. They gather around the corpse, vocalize in groups, and ward off scavengers from the corpse. So are they able to comprehend death and grieve similar to humans? Or is it purely a biologically evolved instinct to recognize potential dangers in their environment. 

Posted
55 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

I'll take your word on all that, I don't know your friends or what is going on with all that, as I don't care and am not the target demo.

Don’t care because one is not the target demo.   True hero of the republic.  Brave, brave Sir Robin. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

Ultimate reality is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit; 3 Gods yet 1 God.

so sayeth the chode.

everything you write about this topic is assumptive, condescending bullshit.  Just like every other evangelizing, cross on their sleeve Christian that fucks it up for everyone else, including the Christians that actually try and "walk the path" without being hateful cunts with a boner for theocracy.

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Posted
1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

Ultimate reality is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit; 3 Gods yet 1 God.

Everything that you and I know waterfalls from this community of Gods in the Godhead loving one another, dancing like 3 particles in an infinite dance where they have for all time glorified and loved one another, before our creation.

Think about what I just said now and try to process it. We will never fully understand it, the nature of the Triune God.

If you were going to simply invent a story for a religion-- you wouldn't have chosen this framework. You'd figure something else that's easier to sell.

spongebob squarepants bullshit GIF

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Posted
You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible.

We. Don't. Give. A. Fuck.

Stop trying to pass laws and discriminate against marginalized groups using a piece of apocalyptic literature as a source.

This times infinity. It’s not hard.
Posted
5 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Just sharing what I believe, man. It’s really amazing the hostility of some of you, and it’s really sad to me.

I'd show the same amount of "hostility" to someone coming on here and trying to sell me Zeus, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, and Xenu as gods.  

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Posted
34 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Just sharing what I believe, man. It’s really amazing the hostility of some of you, and it’s really sad to me.

Quote

everything that you and I know waterfalls from this community of Gods in the Godhead loving one another, dancing like 3 particles in an infinite dance where they have for all time glorified and loved one another, before our creation

yet here you are prescribing beliefs to others.  keep up with your own bullshit.  if you cant understand where the hostility is coming from overall from secular folks, then you havent been paying attention to the push of therocratic fascists using religion to hurt others in the name of god.

and if you cant understand where the hostility is coming from toward you in particular, maybe look at the scribbled piece of paper where your previous eleventy billion usernames are crossed out with several more waiting to be crossed out.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Stop supporting the use of your faith and your god as a sword against my fellow citizens. It's fucking reprehensible.

This^ I would urge other posters of faith in the forum to consider that the message received is the message.

Posted
1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Man, the Steven Crowder shit really took a turn from some fun Schadenfreud to a really dark peek into how psycho evangelicals view and treat women.

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1651645370898989057?t=mVwObwtoo48J67LUx4vvcw&s=19

Having a fundamentally hierarchial world view will do that to ya. Tends to make you receptive to fascist ideology and methodology as well, which we can see a potential outcome of in Florida and here in Texas, and across the evangelical body of christ. 

Posted
4 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

Anti-theists aren't gonna like it.

Shit like this is the sort of oppositional, implicitly hierarchical speech that lends itself to fascist bullshit like we're seeing legislatively in bible belt states. Be better. 

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Posted
7 hours ago, Hermanator said:

Some animals do show examples of behaviors that could possibly denote an ability to reason and grieve, and we can't conclude there isn't some ability to worship in their own way.

Tired Over It GIF by GIPHY News

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Posted

I've said this a few times, but we need to start a PAC called GROOP...

Get Religion Out Of Politics

 

 

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