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Surly kids who can't get into UT


texasdago

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What's the rate for CAPed kids actually attending Texas?  I would guess that carrot is dangled to drive better qualified kids to earn degrees at UT system schools instead of to aggy, tech, etc. and not to actually get them on the main campus.  
My oldest daughter (no pics) was CAPed and went to UTSA for her first year.  All three of her roommates were in the same boat and all four moved to UT the next year.  My youngest daughter (also no pics) was CAPed, but wanted to study biology to ultimately do physical therapy.  Since the CAP only guarantees the school of liberal arts at UT, it made sense for her to go elsewhere.  She's rocking it at Texas State, which has a great PT school.  The CAP is great if your student is fine with a liberal arts major or if you student is dead set on a degree from UT.  
Correct.  It's my understanding that getting into Cockrell or McCombs via CAP is pretty tough.  Some advisors suggest accepting a major within liberal arts and then trying to transfer within UT down the road.  I'm not sure if that's any more likely.
Both my daughter and now Son in Law did CAP at UTSA their freshman year and both were at UT the following year. My daughter transfered to Austin as a Liberal Arts student, but was able to get into McCombs the following year and graduated from there.

I liked that they had to spend their freshman year busting their asses instead of getting straight in and doing what a lot of freshmen do - fuck off for a year. Ditto for not getting into McCombs immediately, she had to keep hustling.

It's kinda cute that they met their last month in San Antonio, so I would say the CAP program worked out very well for them.
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On 12/20/2023 at 7:41 AM, txduck87 said:

Question. Does it hurt your chances getting into mccombs if you put them as second choice for major behind cockrell?

My boy is 6 in a class of 1200 . ACT in Feb so will see but probably 31-33.
He THINKS he wants engineering but also would consider business. Really wants to go the Texas. Longhorn fan his whole life.

Know he could get into CU, auburn , types for engineering but he’d consider business at Texas if rejected at cockrell. Thoughts?

Well, if you want a Debby downer view of STEM admissions, there's this:

https://texadmissions.com/blog/2022/2/21/tips-for-applying-to-ut-computer-science-cockrell-school-of-engineering-and-the-college-of-natural-sciences

More concrete data and a little less negativity here:

https://texadmissions.com/blog/2019/2/25/recommended-ut-austin-majors-rank-and-test-score-minimums

That guy probably knows more specifically about UT admissions that anyone else I found when we were going through it.

The short answer is that nobody knows if the 2nd choice is even considered anymore and it's possible that it's not.  And if you want a STEM major then your kid increasingly needs to show some interest in the field during high school, like camps or projects and such.  However, 6 out of 1200 is top half of one percent, and that's pretty darn high.  If the kid really cares about some particular field of engineering, think about something to do over the summer that might be able to "demonstrate intent" in the field.

You can take the ACT more than once and bump up the ACT score with a prep class.  IMHO the prep classes mostly help to give you practice taking the test and answering the type of questions they ask, so that on test day your kid has been through the timing a few times and knows what to expect.

College admissions is a crapshoot.  Your kid spends four years carefully polishing a resume, essays, test scores, etc and the admissions person may spend 10-15 minutes on your profile and then move on.  They are flooded with applications because it's easy to apply to 10 or more schools today even though every kid will only choose one of the 10.  Kids have to submit tons of applications because everywhere they submit is flooded with apps, so their chances at any one school are small.  It is a crazy system and not a perfect process.

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Where?  I'm pretty sure my daughter found several of the out of state schools she was looking at said college enrollment didn't establish state residency.

Mizzou.

And of course they can’t be dependents for IRS purposes.

And earn a certain amount of W2 income IIRC, and not leave the state for more than 3 consecutive days, and quite a few additional hoops.

Edit - just checked the residency requirements for Cal Berkeley and y’all are right, it’s hard. I was wrong.
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On 12/20/2023 at 7:41 AM, txduck87 said:

Question. Does it hurt your chances getting into mccombs if you put them as second choice for major behind cockrell?

My boy is 6 in a class of 1200 . ACT in Feb so will see but probably 31-33.
He THINKS he wants engineering but also would consider business. Really wants to go the Texas. Longhorn fan his whole life.

Congrats to your son on his outstanding high school academics.

His admission to engineering will depend on which specific major he wants to get into.  Some are WAY more competitive than others.  Back when I was in school, ChemE was probably the hardest to get into, mainly because a lot of premed / Biomed folks would go that route.  Now Computer Science and Computer Engineering are the most competitive by far.  Next would be Mechanical and Aerospace (thanks Tesla and SpaceX). Biomed is also competitive.

Now that Biomed has been split off from Chemical Engineering, ChemE is actually one of the easier engineering majors to get into.  The easiest is Petroleum.  Funny enough, Petroleum and Chemical both make higher starting salaries than most of the other more competitive majors. 

Some of the engineering majors like Petroleum actually have a difficult time filling their spots.  If a student SELECTS Petroleum engineering and they have a decent resume, they will get in over a better student that selects Computer Engineering and misses the cut.  The departments want students who WANT to get a certain degree, not ones who are settling.  

So unless you have a student with insane credentials, I would advise them to pick one of the less popular engineering majors if they don't really have a preference.  It may mean a difference between getting accepted or not.  Plus, once you are admitted into Cockrell, it is MUCH easier to transfer between majors than trying to get in from a different College.

FWIW, I'm on the ChemE external advisory board so I have had a lot of these conversations with the staff over the years.

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7 hours ago, HookEm said:

Congrats to your son on his outstanding high school academics.

His admission to engineering will depend on which specific major he wants to get into.  Some are WAY more competitive than others.  Back when I was in school, ChemE was probably the hardest to get into, mainly because a lot of premed / Biomed folks would go that route.  Now Computer Science and Computer Engineering are the most competitive by far.  Next would be Mechanical and Aerospace (thanks Tesla and SpaceX). Biomed is also competitive.

Now that Biomed has been split off from Chemical Engineering, ChemE is actually one of the easier engineering majors to get into.  The easiest is Petroleum.  Funny enough, Petroleum and Chemical both make higher starting salaries than most of the other more competitive majors. 

Some of the engineering majors like Petroleum actually have a difficult time filling their spots.  If a student SELECTS Petroleum engineering and they have a decent resume, they will get in over a better student that selects Computer Engineering and misses the cut.  The departments want students who WANT to get a certain degree, not ones who are settling.  

So unless you have a student with insane credentials, I would advise them to pick one of the less popular engineering majors if they don't really have a preference.  It may mean a difference between getting accepted or not.  Plus, once you are admitted into Cockrell, it is MUCH easier to transfer between majors than trying to get in from a different College.

FWIW, I'm on the ChemE external advisory board so I have had a lot of these conversations with the staff over the years.


im biased, but a chemE or petroE degree are great career paths 

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20 hours ago, HookEm said:

Funny enough, Petroleum and Chemical both make higher starting salaries than most of the other more competitive majors. 

The old joke going around when I was in school was ChemE’s got higher salaries because they had to get their car repainted every year after working at the refinery. PEs get higher salaries because they are going to be out of work a lot of the time. 

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13 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:


im biased, but a chemE or petroE degree are great career paths 

Petroleum engineering is an absolute shit career path unless you don’t mind getting laid off or a big salary / benefits cut every three or four years. 
 

There are exceptions if you’re willing to work in some grade-A shitholes that no one else will go to. That saved my ass numerous times. 

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It is interesting seeing the breadth of careers my ChemE classmates went into. Technology, Law, Medicine, Investment Banking, Consulting. Some still do classic chemical engineering, but not that many. Most seem to get into management and then move up the ranks in various ways.

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6 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Petroleum engineering is an absolute shit career path unless you don’t mind getting laid off or a big salary / benefits cut every three or four years. 
 

There are exceptions if you’re willing to work in some grade-A shitholes that no one else will go to. That saved my ass numerous times. 

In the mid late 80s, PENs were coming back for BSME and bitching that it took another 60 hours or so. 

ChemEs are often employed outside OG but it does seem a little cyclical.  Sometimes in "environmental" applications. 

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14 hours ago, HookEm said:

It is interesting seeing the breadth of careers my ChemE classmates went into. Technology, Law, Medicine, Investment Banking, Consulting. Some still do classic chemical engineering, but not that many. Most seem to get into management and then move up the ranks in various ways.

Although engineering is perhaps a peculiar way of thinking, compared to some of the rest of academia, or society generally, it seems the problem-solving and analytical approach to things lends itself to a lot of disciplines.

I find that engineers tend to make pretty decent lawyers, IP and otherwise, even though the academic end of things is quite different in that engineers tend to simplify, assume, and ignore the "noise," while in law, the "noise" is often what it is all about, at least in school.

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21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Although engineering is perhaps a peculiar way of thinking, compared to some of the rest of academia, or society generally, it seems the problem-solving and analytical approach to things lends itself to a lot of disciplines.

I find that engineers tend to make pretty decent lawyers, IP and otherwise, even though the academic end of things is quite different in that engineers tend to simplify, assume, and ignore the "noise," while in law, the "noise" is often what it is all about, at least in school.

Buddy of mine had lunch last year with a retiring Geology prof from the Jackson School and he said that a large % of the geology undergrads -I recall he said 75% - never do anything geology related with their BS degree but still we highly sought out by other fields for the same reason you mention about engineers regarding problem solving and analytical approach to things.

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All my friends and relatives with self-made fuck you money (and the true benefit, freedom to do whatever they want, whenever they want) are entrepreneurs in O&G and construction. They were all impatient and risk-taking enough to quit college after a semester and go make their own way.

Sure, they make fun of me because I read books, but I admire their social intelligence and ability to accomplish big things. I'm the schmuck with a salary.

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12 hours ago, immamac said:

I hope my kids are smart enough to not even go to college. It seems like such a racket to the point where it feels like select sports vs rec league. 

Perhaps in some fields, but there are some career paths where being self-taught just won't work for the vast majority of people.  I'm not just referring to those with professional requirements, I mean the curricula itself is way too complicated to absorb just by cracking a book.  Most STEM fields are like this.  

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42 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Perhaps in some fields, but there are some career paths where being self-taught just won't work for the vast majority of people.  I'm not just referring to those with professional requirements, I mean the curricula itself is way too complicated to absorb just by cracking a book.  Most STEM fields are like this.  

I don't really think that's true and computer science/semiconductor design in it's current state is actually proof of that. Sure for maybe some more of the hardcore sciences that require big expensive labs that are only available in academia, yes you are correct.

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7 minutes ago, immamac said:

I don't really think that's true and computer science/semiconductor design in it's current state is actually proof of that. Sure for maybe some more of the hardcore sciences that require big expensive labs that are only available in academia, yes you are correct.

I seriously doubt more than maybe 1% of the population could teach themselves most engineering & physics, chemistry, etc. curricula.  Programming is different.  I'm not talking about labs, although that is true as well.

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On 12/26/2023 at 12:51 PM, jimmyjazz said:

I seriously doubt more than maybe 1% of the population could teach themselves most engineering & physics, chemistry, etc. curricula.  Programming is different.  I'm not talking about labs, although that is true as well.

Reminds me of something I read recently about how a certain wired portion of the population would find a way to tinker/learn (in bold):

Quote

 

Computing is not yet overcome. GPT-4 is impressive, but a layperson can’t wield it the way a programmer can. I still feel secure in my profession. In fact, I feel somewhat more secure than before. As software gets easier to make, it’ll proliferate; programmers will be tasked with its design, its configuration, and its maintenance. And though I’ve always found the fiddly parts of programming the most calming, and the most essential, I’m not especially good at them. I’ve failed many classic coding interview tests of the kind you find at Big Tech companies. The thing I’m relatively good at is knowing what’s worth building, what users like, how to communicate both technically and humanely. A friend of mine has called this A.I. moment “the revenge of the so-so programmer.” As coding per se begins to matter less, maybe softer skills will shine.

That still leaves open the matter of what to teach my unborn child. I suspect that, as my child comes of age, we will think of “the programmer” the way we now look back on “the computer,” when that phrase referred to a person who did calculations by hand. Programming by typing C++ or Python yourself might eventually seem as ridiculous as issuing instructions in binary onto a punch card. Dijkstra would be appalled, but getting computers to do precisely what you want might become a matter of asking politely.

So maybe the thing to teach isn’t a skill but a spirit. I sometimes think of what I might have been doing had I been born in a different time. The coders of the agrarian days probably futzed with waterwheels and crop varietals; in the Newtonian era, they might have been obsessed with glass, and dyes, and timekeeping. I was reading an oral history of neural networks recently, and it struck me how many of the people interviewed—people born in and around the nineteen-thirties—had played with radios when they were little. Maybe the next cohort will spend their late nights in the guts of the A.I.s their parents once regarded as black boxes. I shouldn’t worry that the era of coding is winding down. Hacking is forever. ♦

Published in the print edition of the November 20, 2023, issue, with the headline “Begin End.”

 

 

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16 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

Question: I have an 8th grader. I guess at some point in next few years we need to do campus tours? What do you do on a tour? Is the summer a bad time to go since there are no srudenrs around? I did UT with minimal backup plans. I'm clueless. 

Good to visit campuses ahead of applying just to get a “feel” of the place and to decide if you even apply to that school and then another round of visits once you get acceptance letters. We have a college “consultant” that gave us a list of schools our twins could get into - based on grades and potential scholarships - but after initial visits, eliminated some of those after the visit.  Now doing the next round of visits once they got accepted to decide which is the best fit.  (Sure, kid #2 could get into UNT or UTD with a free ride if they applied but after a visit, no way in hell did they want to go there based on what they saw on the initial visit…)

Now that they have a few acceptances and $ offers, will revisit in the coming months to decide where to go… Will be having some tough discussions shortly - yea, I know you liked school x but I will have to pay out-of-state tuition for you to go there while school z is in-state and is offering you some $ as well…. Guess where you are going…

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16 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

Question: I have an 8th grader. I guess at some point in next few years we need to do campus tours? What do you do on a tour? Is the summer a bad time to go since there are no srudenrs around? I did UT with minimal backup plans. I'm clueless. 

Tours are kind of a junior/senior thing, although you can go earlier.  You have plenty of time.  For most schools, your kid (or you) books a tour online.  You show up to a visitor center and go to a short presentation with some Q&A.  Then a current student leads you around campus for about an hour and shows you stuff, while telling you amusing antidotes about the school.  You have a chance at more Q&A and they leave you with a coupon to buy something at the campus store, or you walk away with some swag.

Time of year does not matter much, IMHO, because you spend most of your time at the visitor center or walking around.  You can go during the year if you want, but you are going to mostly see students walking from class to class with headphones in or walking slowly down the street staring at their phones.

Some schools have "info nights" on campus, where you can go either virtually or in person and learn about a specific program, or the admissions process for that school.

Once you get into senior year, some schools have "admitted students" events.  These are all day programs where you go from session to session to learn specifics about housing, financing, a particular major, things like that.  These are usually in the spring, between the time when acceptances go out and the kids have to pick one school.

But in 8th grade you have a ton of time.  I would suggest learning what college costs, how your family might pay for it, and talking a bit with your kid about what they might want to do with their life and what kind of school they like.  Like small, medium, large ... public or private ... far away or close by ... on the coast or not ... things like that.  You can walk around local campuses just to show your kid what that scale of school is like.  Just start thinking about a framework.

And, if your kid is in some activity in middle school, gently encourage them to keep doing that in high school, or find some place to "belong" in high school.  For my kids, their home was the band hall and they had a ton of fun and personal growth by being in band.  Teams, clubs, orgs, whatever ... gently encourage them to be part of something that they enjoy outside of the classroom.

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Here's another data point for your kid that has the UT dream. Try a spring transfer. Most transfers are applying for Fall admission, and you're competing with incoming CAP kids as well. My youngest graduated high school last May at 6.2%, so no auto admit. She was CAP'd, but had no desire to do summer school last summer (UTSA and Arlington require summer school). However she did have 38 hours of dual credit, so in UT's mind already a college sophomore and eligible for transfer. She was accepted everywhere she applied, but took a scholarship in the Honors college at TX ST knowing that transferring was the plan. She worked hard over the summer writing essays and resumes. The old deadline was Oct. 1st, but is now Sept. 1st, so you've got to get this shit done over the summer. I can't prove that it increases your chances, but there's less competition for Spring transfer admissions. She was notified of her acceptance mid October before any grades have been posted in her first semester of college, and got an on campus housing contract at ADH. Odd, she wasn't accepted as high school applicant, but transferred to UT because of the work she did in high school. AP is a scam; steer your kid towards dual credit.

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21 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

Question: I have an 8th grader. I guess at some point in next few years we need to do campus tours? What do you do on a tour? Is the summer a bad time to go since there are no srudenrs around? I did UT with minimal backup plans. I'm clueless. 

Start early.  Especially if you're looking out of state.   We did our first tours in OCT of my kid's sophomore year and quite honestly, I feel we are running out of time to get many more in. For us, fall is a wash because of high school volleyball taking up every FRI night so a weekend trip is out of the question.  We did miss a match to make that trip to Colorado to tour CU, CSU, and Mines as sophomore because it also coincided with a Monday district day off.  I didn't feel like we could it again this year with her being on varsity and the coach being pissy about missing games.   Also, official tours don't happen every day and Saturday tour dates are hit and miss.  There are usually no tours on spring break or other holidays so you need to miss school or go during the summer.  Our summer is already pretty booked but we are going to try to squeeze in a trip to the University of Vermont the day after AISD lets out.  

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Is this thread only for those who couldn't get into UT at all? How about into specific schools or majors?

Two years ago, my son was top 1% in a large, competitive school, National Merit Scholarship winner, 1560 SAT, loaded up with extracurriculars (soccer through varsity, DECA (president senior year) and FBLA multiple years including national and international placement) and volunteer/charitable work all through high school. Bottom line, worked his ass off and did everything he could to get into UT CS (his first choice). Didn't have any special tutors, didn't take any SAT prep courses, didn't get any help writing his essays, etc. Just grinded and accomplished stuff on his own talents and efforts.

So, while he did get an auto-admit into UT (liberal arts), he was hard rejected from computer science. Got a solid wall of "it's a comprehensive evaluation" responses when talking to anyone at the school about what he might have done to get in. Considered going in and trying to transfer, but from what we've heard the odds of that working into CS are as low or lower as they were for him to get into the school to begin with. They have an "accelerated transfer" program where you can attend for a period and as long as you get the right grades in the right classes you can automatically transfer in. But, it's "invitation only" and he did not get invited. When we contacted people about how he might be considered, we got a circular-referral-runaround where everyone simply said it's not up to them who gets invited and pointed us to someone else (eventually leading back the the first person we contacted).

I understand that CS at UT is very competitive. But meanwhile, other students with similar or less impressive credentials got accepted by UT CS as well as places like Stanford, Michigan, etc. (he was also rejected by these). There were "demographic" differences in these cases.

So he went elsewhere and will graduate with a near-perfect GPA in 3 years. He could have gotten into this school with far less effort and a far inferior resume, which I'm sure left him wondering why he worked so hard for so long.

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5 minutes ago, SurlyORama said:

Is this thread only for those who couldn't get into UT at all? How about into specific schools or majors?

Two years ago, my son was top 1% in a large, competitive school, National Merit Scholarship winner, 1560 SAT, loaded up with extracurriculars (soccer through varsity, DECA (president senior year) and FBLA multiple years including national and international placement) and volunteer/charitable work all through high school. Bottom line, worked his ass off and did everything he could to get into UT CS (his first choice). Didn't have any special tutors, didn't take any SAT prep courses, didn't get any help writing his essays, etc. Just grinded and accomplished stuff on his own talents and efforts.

So, while he did get an auto-admit into UT (liberal arts), he was hard rejected from computer science. Got a solid wall of "it's a comprehensive evaluation" responses when talking to anyone at the school about what he might have done to get in. Considered going in and trying to transfer, but from what we've heard the odds of that working into CS are as low or lower as they were for him to get into the school to begin with. They have an "accelerated transfer" program where you can attend for a period and as long as you get the right grades in the right classes you can automatically transfer in. But, it's "invitation only" and he did not get invited. When we contacted people about how he might be considered, we got a circular-referral-runaround where everyone simply said it's not up to them who gets invited and pointed us to someone else (eventually leading back the the first person we contacted).

I understand that CS at UT is very competitive. But meanwhile, other students with similar or less impressive credentials got accepted by UT CS as well as places like Stanford, Michigan, etc. (he was also rejected by these). There were "demographic" differences in these cases.

So he went elsewhere and will graduate with a near-perfect GPA in 3 years. He could have gotten into this school with far less effort and a far inferior resume, which I'm sure left him wondering why he worked so hard for so long.

Why bury the lede? Which school? If you don't want to specifically say, give a tier. Is it UT-CS tier? 2nd tier? Worse?

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Why bury the lede? Which school? If you don't want to specifically say, give a tier. Is it UT-CS tier? 2nd tier? Worse?

A&M. In my experience as a hiring manager for CS students, not significantly worse. But ratings-wise it’s a decent bit lower (#41 vs #8 in most recent US News rankings).

Perhaps didn’t mention on this particular forum because reasons.
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On 1/3/2024 at 2:18 PM, SurlyORama said:

So he went elsewhere and will graduate with a near-perfect GPA in 3 years. He could have gotten into this school with far less effort and a far inferior resume, which I'm sure left him wondering why he worked so hard for so long.

I'd be disabusing him of that notion and pronto.  That hard work surely helped him crush his BS and will resonate well with employers or grad schools.

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We cant really afford (more, i don't want to spend thousands of dollars) to run around all over the country and visit schools. Instead, we (he) pinpointed particular schools based on his class rank, GPA, SAT, his qualifications, etc. As well as, criteria like well it would be cool to live here or be in this part of the country.  Google maps is your friend.

He ended up applying to 7 schools [2 acceptances (UT & A&M) + 5 waiting] - most the remaining schools are "reach" schools and out of state. If he gets in to any of them, we'd take a visit to those schools in March at that point, so he can ultimately decided a college by April.

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18 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'd be disabusing him of that notion and pronto.  That hard work surely helped him crush his BS and will resonate well with employers or grad schools.

Oh we have, and continue to do so. I'm not worried his approach will change significantly (his work so far has reflected that it hasn't), but it was crushing to him for a while.

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9 minutes ago, SurlyORama said:

Oh we have, and continue to do so. I'm not worried his approach will change significantly (his work so far has reflected that it hasn't), but it was crushing to him for a while.

Hopefully he got some of that Qatari money in scholly's.

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We cant really afford (more, i don't want to spend thousands of dollars) to run around all over the country and visit schools. Instead, we (he) pinpointed particular schools based on his class rank, GPA, SAT, his qualifications, etc. As well as, criteria like : well it would be cool to live here or be in this part of the country.  Google maps is your friend.
He ended up applying to 7 schools [2 acceptances (UT & A&M) + 5 waiting] - most the remaining schools are "reach" schools and out of state. If he gets in to any of them, we'd take a visit to those schools in March at that point, so he can ultimately decided a college by April.

Cmon, spill the beans. What colleges and major? Obviously to 5% if into Texas. Congrats
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It sounds like a few people on this thread have hired independent college advisors -- would anyone be willing to share either someone you worked with who you liked, a good company, or where/how you looked to find someone?

Our current sophomore will likely be on the border of getting into Texas, but probably has some interest in out of state programs.  I'd like to get him connected with someone who can help him explore his options, and frankly, the guidance experience he has access to in public school has been unimpressive.

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On 12/17/2023 at 6:30 PM, TwiceHorn said:

I suppose grad schools have gotten ultra competitive, too, but 3.2 is a pretty solid engineering GPA at a rigorous school like GT.  Or is it?

Back in the day, that'd get you hired most places out of UT.

And, I could easily see it being one of those situations where he did well on upper-division, research-related courses.  For whatever reason, I didn't start busting 4.0s until upper division, employers seemed to like that and didn't give a rats ass about my C in engineering mechanics or fluids.

I was recruited to grad at UT, with an undergrad of 3.4.  Turned them down for that sweet $1400/mo salary (76)

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16 hours ago, Damor said:

It sounds like a few people on this thread have hired independent college advisors -- would anyone be willing to share either someone you worked with who you liked, a good company, or where/how you looked to find someone?

Our current sophomore will likely be on the border of getting into Texas, but probably has some interest in out of state programs.  I'd like to get him connected with someone who can help him explore his options, and frankly, the guidance experience he has access to in public school has been unimpressive.

Location?  Mine is in Houston and I think they like to have some face-to-face meetings with you and the kid during the process... Cost was in the $5k range that covers you until they graduate university (they help with filing the FAFSA every year even once the kid is in school).

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2 hours ago, Grimas said:

Location?  Mine is in Houston and I think they like to have some face-to-face meetings with you and the kid during the process... Cost was in the $5k range that covers you until they graduate university (they help with filing the FAFSA every year even once the kid is in school).

Serious question because I don't know the ins/outs of college admissions these days. If you've got $5k in discretionary funds to hire an admissions consultant, why would you need to fill out a FAFSA? I would've thought you're not qualifying for federal aid if you can afford that sort of service.

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37 minutes ago, royiv said:

Serious question because I don't know the ins/outs of college admissions these days. If you've got $5k in discretionary funds to hire an admissions consultant, why would you need to fill out a FAFSA? I would've thought you're not qualifying for federal aid if you can afford that sort of service.

FAFSA/CSS is just one part of it.  The main part was matching kid with schools based on grades, ranking and desired degree as well as where they have the best chance for academic scholarships and then you can focus on where to apply. They also review all essays and applications before you submit them - no way my kid would have listened to my thoughts/comments on what was originally written so having an outside reviewer made a big difference in what was originally written by my kid vs what eventually got submitted...

Also, if you fill in the FAFSA incorrect and you have to wait a full year to make corrections.  There are a lot of grants and other scholarships available - $500 here, $1000 there - that all require a FAFSA when you apply for them to even be considered. 

They also help you "negotiate" with schools who are offering you scholarships - school X may initially offer some amount while school Y makes a different offer. You can play one offer off the other to get even more money if they really want your kid especially if both schools compete with each other for the same pool of students. Our advisor has a good database from previous clients so they have a good feel of how much the schools are willing to pay/increase their initial offer.  

Sure, you can do it all this yourself but I hire consultants all the time in my line of work and understand that sometimes it's worth hiring someone who does this process all the time vs. trying to figure out how do it all by yourself...

Edited by Grimas
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11 minutes ago, Grimas said:

FAFSA/CSS is just one part of it.  The main part was matching kid with schools based on grades, ranking and desired degree as well as where they have the best chance for academic scholarships and then you can focus on where to apply. They also review all essays and applications before you submit them - no way my kid would have listened to my thoughts/comments on what was originally written so having an outside reviewer made a big difference in what was originally written by my kid vs what eventually got submitted...

Also, if you fill in the FAFSA incorrect and you have to wait a full year to make corrections.  There are a lot of grants and other scholarships available - $500 here, $1000 there - that all require a FAFSA when you apply for them to even be considered. 

They also help you "negotiate" with schools who are offering you scholarships - school X may initially offer some amount while school Y makes a different offer. You can play one offer off the other to get even more money if they really want your kid especially if both schools compete with each other for the same pool of students. Our advisor has a good database from previous clients so they have a good feel of how much the schools are willing to pay/increase their initial offer.  

Sure, you can do it all this yourself but I hire consultants all the time in my line of work and understand that sometimes it's worth hiring someone who does this process all the time vs. trying to figure out how do it all by yourself...

Wasn't questioning the value of the service. I definitely see the value proposition there. Was questioning the need to full out a FAFSA. I was making the assumption that if you can afford the service, you're not qualifying for need based aid. Again, I'm an idiot on college admissions since I don't have kids and was fortunate enough to have academic scholarships and help from my parents to pay for school so I never had to go through that process.

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6 minutes ago, royiv said:

Wasn't questioning the value of the service. I definitely see the value proposition there. Was questioning the need to full out a FAFSA. I was making the assumption that if you can afford the service, you're not qualifying for need based aid. Again, I'm an idiot on college admissions since I don't have kids and was fortunate enough to have academic scholarships and help from my parents to pay for school so I never had to go through that process.

You basically need to submit a FAFSA to get any merit or non-academic funds. Want to apply for that 500 grant from the Daughters of the American Revolution because your wife is a member, you must include the FAFSA application. (Some private schools require the CSS instead of the FAFSA when applying - same basic info but different ways of calculating financial need/ability to pay)

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18 minutes ago, Grimas said:

You basically need to submit a FAFSA to get any merit or non-academic funds. Want to apply for that 500 grant from the Daughters of the American Revolution because your wife is a member, you must include the FAFSA application. (Some private schools require the CSS instead of the FAFSA when applying - same basic info but different ways of calculating financial need/ability to pay)

Got it. Thanks. Didn't know you had to provide financial info to get merit these days. It wasn't that way when I went to school. I feel for you guys who have to go through the college admissions process these days. It seems like a massive pain in the ass not to mention having to manage your kid's expectations. 

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1 hour ago, royiv said:

Got it. Thanks. Didn't know you had to provide financial info to get merit these days. It wasn't that way when I went to school. I feel for you guys who have to go through the college admissions process these days. It seems like a massive pain in the ass not to mention having to manage your kid's expectations. 

I understand it's easier with the "OneApp" (or whatever it's called) where you fill out just one application online - with some schools having different requirements on questions and essays - for all the schools you are applying to (as opposed to separate applications to each and every school...). No need to fill in the same basic info for each and every application... 

And the FAFSA process is different this year with a new system that matches your 1040 and other tax reporting to what you submit on the FAFSA (which delayed the application start process until Jan1 this year) as all the numbers have to match or it kicks you out of the system until they match...  While you might have already been accepted to schools, you won't know what additional aid might be offered for another month (assuming you applied the past 2 weeks).  Luckily, you don't have to accept any offers until sometime in March.

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On 1/12/2024 at 7:57 AM, Grimas said:

Location?  Mine is in Houston and I think they like to have some face-to-face meetings with you and the kid during the process... Cost was in the $5k range that covers you until they graduate university (they help with filing the FAFSA every year even once the kid is in school).

Duh, would have helped to have mentioned that we're north of Austin.  While I'd like someone we could meet face-to-face at least a few times, I'm not completely against remote stuff, especially for followup.  

Right now he thinks he wants to do medical school, which is something I should know about but I've completely lost the thread on how that drama works these days.  Mostly I'd like him to get some goals set for the remainder of HS and start thinking about schools he might want to target.  He's pretty good about getting after it once he has direction.

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1 hour ago, Damor said:

Duh, would have helped to have mentioned that we're north of Austin.  While I'd like someone we could meet face-to-face at least a few times, I'm not completely against remote stuff, especially for followup.  

Right now he thinks he wants to do medical school, which is something I should know about but I've completely lost the thread on how that drama works these days.  Mostly I'd like him to get some goals set for the remainder of HS and start thinking about schools he might want to target.  He's pretty good about getting after it once he has direction.

 DM sent

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On 1/12/2024 at 11:01 AM, Grimas said:

FAFSA/CSS is just one part of it.  The main part was matching kid with schools based on grades, ranking and desired degree as well as where they have the best chance for academic scholarships and then you can focus on where to apply. They also review all essays and applications before you submit them - no way my kid would have listened to my thoughts/comments on what was originally written so having an outside reviewer made a big difference in what was originally written by my kid vs what eventually got submitted...

Also, if you fill in the FAFSA incorrect and you have to wait a full year to make corrections.  There are a lot of grants and other scholarships available - $500 here, $1000 there - that all require a FAFSA when you apply for them to even be considered. 

They also help you "negotiate" with schools who are offering you scholarships - school X may initially offer some amount while school Y makes a different offer. You can play one offer off the other to get even more money if they really want your kid especially if both schools compete with each other for the same pool of students. Our advisor has a good database from previous clients so they have a good feel of how much the schools are willing to pay/increase their initial offer.  

Sure, you can do it all this yourself but I hire consultants all the time in my line of work and understand that sometimes it's worth hiring someone who does this process all the time vs. trying to figure out how do it all by yourself...


interesting, thanks for sharing 

and good luck !

Edited by tx 3 putt
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On 1/12/2024 at 7:57 AM, Grimas said:

Cost was in the $5k range that covers you until they graduate university (they help with filing the FAFSA every year even once the kid is in school).

Wow, we were very, very happy with the counselor we worked with in Austin but they were a little north of that, and AFAIK don’t cover the FAFSA support or offer any services post High School.

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The counselor thingy seems like lighting money on fire, unless you're so busy you can't work on the intertron for a while.  Given the Surly presence, we know that's not possible.

Financial aid info is everywhere.

Degree programs and schools are quantified and ranked about a billion different ways.

I say this, and we spent around $5k sending each kid to visit  schools of their choice.  We felt like that made a huge difference in their shopping for schools.  What the fuck do I know though...  maybe people can't do their own research.

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On 1/12/2024 at 11:30 AM, Grimas said:

You basically need to submit a FAFSA to get any merit or non-academic funds. Want to apply for that 500 grant from the Daughters of the American Revolution because your wife is a member, you must include the FAFSA application. (Some private schools require the CSS instead of the FAFSA when applying - same basic info but different ways of calculating financial need/ability to pay)

Even if you know you will get no need based money, as Grimas stated, schools and other entities require it.   If Bill Gates had a kid applying, the school(s) would require him to submit.

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Oldest is a sophomore and the only thing she knows is she wants to leave Texas for college. Beyond that we can’t get much out of her on where she might want to go and what she wants to study. Her grades are good (one B so far in HS) but she usually struggles on standardized tests (fucking STAAR). Either way we think she’ll have options we just have to get her excited about the process without making her overly anxious. 

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On 1/14/2024 at 1:38 PM, 4th&Five said:

Oldest is a sophomore and the only thing she knows is she wants to leave Texas for college. Beyond that we can’t get much out of her on where she might want to go and what she wants to study. Her grades are good (one B so far in HS) but she usually struggles on standardized tests (fucking STAAR). Either way we think she’ll have options we just have to get her excited about the process without making her overly anxious. 

Unsolicited advice - have her take an SAT prep class.  She'll get more comfortable with the test process, etc.  And, it will help to mute any asymmetry between her grades and her standardized test scores.  In Austin, we used More Than a Teacher and were happy with the outcome, fwiw.  

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16 minutes ago, boilerhorn said:

Unsolicited advice - have her take an SAT prep class.  She'll get more comfortable with the test process, etc.  And, it will help to mute any asymmetry between her grades and her standardized test scores.  In Austin, we used More Than a Teacher and were happy with the outcome, fwiw.  

Definitely in our plan. I took one in HS and it worked well. 

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