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Everything is Shit: Tracking the Great Enshittening


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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, immamac said:

That's not true at all. I have been a part of many initiatives that make people's jobs completely obsolete and unecessary and employers chose to keep paying high salaries because why the fuck not. Finding productive people isn't a premium, no one gives a shit anymore because they don't have to because what you posted is the opposite of true. There are so many "lazy girl jobs" that it's actually insane. There are TONS of white collar low value jobs. Blue collar work or labor intensive work may be true if there was a robot to do it they'd hire that, but shockingly robots are more expensive than people for labor. For complex tasks that require a human brain level to do them in an non-deterministic way there's only one thing you can do and that's hire a person. Is AI trying to do away with these shit jobs in corporate? Yeah, but AI is actually surprisingly shitty at stuff that's easy for even a dumb human to do. 

Your field is a fucking microcosm at best and you are probably still wrong about it because you are being an obtuse jackass instead of a realist. Corporate inefficiency is at an all time high in the US and it's partly because none of the companies are actually doing anything but going through the motions and have entrenched monopolies they can't be displaced from. It literally has more to do with the macro economy not being able to survive if only rich people got paid than it does for fair wages or whatever, which is why corps don't give a single fuck about employee satisfaction. 

The idea of "if you hate your job, then leave" is absolutely true. Some people just don't hate their job, they just don't like it so they are fine to just drone and collect their paycheck for doing nothing and adding next to no value. 

They do, and they did. When people could go full remote there was a huge movement of jobs and everyone got massive raises. The fuck are you talking about? It's like you live under a rock or something. 

Yep totally out of touch.  What I live every day and have experienced for 3 decades should totally defer to your opinions on the matter.

But, without me knowing,  you did change the subject to corporate inefficiency as a whole, as opposed to individual workers being productive.  In that, we are agreement, and I also agree that working remotely exposed/ exacerbated  the issue in a huge way.

The initial discussion was about regular folks working regular jobs.  I'm certainly not defending the corporate world as perfect.  There is bloat.  There is inefficiency.  I just get a kick out of folks discussing the notion that the average Joe can't make it in the world any more working 32 hours a week( not your posts, but they were driving the conversation.)

Edited by slorch
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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Covri said:

Just to clear up the numbers being thrown around $15 an hour is 31k a year not 41k. 10k is a big difference at that level of pay.

Ah fuck that's my bad. You're right that is a pretty considerable difference in hourly rate

Edited by Captainant
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11 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

What?

The last 3-4 years have been a gigantic poachfest of employers knife fighting each other for labor. $7000 sign on bonus out front should have told ya.

Brisket works in law, i think. In that occupation, nonunion employees significantly outearn union (“or similar employee association”) employees. 

As is the case in industry of computers, finance, professional services, etc. 

Unions are most prevalent in the lower-skilled industries or occupation like utilities, warehousing, etc. 

It works where it’s needed 🤷‍♂️. I dont think brisket would want it for himself. 

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

BSD guy sounds like he wears cargos

Cargos, pony tail, whole bit. 
 

37 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Why dont other greedy companies come in and scoop up this undervalued labor then?

they are. The biggest portion of real wage growth since Covid is workers changing jobs, particularly in the service industry. It’s the main reason why in the last 2-3 years you see real wage growth in the bottom half of the workforce.  
 

 

15 minutes ago, slorch said:

One of the most terrible hamburger offerings in the world managed to get worse?

I don’t know about the worst burger in the world, but I do know about the best one in Miami-Dade County. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

they are. The biggest portion of real wage growth since Covid is workers changing jobs, particularly in the service industry. It’s the main reason why in the last 2-3 years you see real wage growth in the bottom half of the workforce. 
 

positive price discovery in the labor market, triggered by the individual workers initiative/prerogative.  

its beautiful. just as yahweh would have wanted.

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23 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Switching gears to something more important :); the new and “improved” Big Macs are an absolute abomination. The new brioche bun on paper sounds tasty but is a soft mess that doesn’t hold the burger together. They have added so much extra special sauce, lettuce and pickles that literally my first three bites into it last night was just those items. Hey dickheads, how about making thicker and juicier patties. That’s a good start place to improve your shitty burgers.

 

 

I do like the subtle acknowledgement of, "Hey, sorry we've been serving you buns that were toasted 30 seconds ago and, despite sandwiching warm ingredients, are somehow ice cold and stiff the moment we hand the box to you. Kinda cool how we were defying the laws of thermodynamics though, yeah?"

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48 minutes ago, immamac said:

Some people just don't hate their job, they just don't like it so they are fine to just drone and collect their paycheck for doing nothing and adding next to no value

You say "some" people, but it's got to be over 50%, right? 

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47 minutes ago, slorch said:

One of the most terrible hamburger offerings in the world managed to get worse?

 

Does that move the needle?

It really is the worst. McD breakfast is damn good. Nuggets are good when I eat them once a year. All the burgers taste like they have a chemical coating on everything. Just yuck.

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34 minutes ago, slorch said:

Yep totally out of touch.  What I live every day and have experienced for 3 decades should totally defer to your opinions on the matter.

But, without me knowing,  you did change the subject to corporate inefficiency as a whole, as opposed to individual workers being productive.  In that, we are agreement, and I also agree that working remotely exposed/ exacerbated  the issue in a huge way.

The initial discussion was about regular folks working regular jobs.  I'm certainly not defending the corporate world as perfect.  There is bloat.  There is inefficiency.  I just get a kick out of folks discussing the notion that the average Joe can't make it in the world any more working 32 hours a week( not your posts, but they were driving the conversation.)

They aren't my opinions and what you live every day is in a fucking bubble doug. The problem isn't with "being able to make it in the world", that's clearly untrue and a bunch of assholes are just wanting to live the lives of the rich and the famous and not everyone can be rich and famous. The problem is that A LOT more people could actually be middle class and there should be very few left outside in the poorer ranks.

Jobs that used to afford a middle class lifestyle no longer do that, they have started to ebb towards being actually poor instead of middle class. 

 

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21 minutes ago, immamac said:

The problem is that A LOT more people could actually be middle class and there should be very few left outside in the poorer ranks.

Jobs that used to afford a middle class lifestyle no longer do that, they have started to ebb towards being actually poor instead of middle class.

Fixating on a specific of job is wrong. Jobs change as the market change. I sit with my laptop at home doing emails and paid amply for it. This job wouldnt have been available to someone like me decades ago, and this job might be worth nothing decades from now. But there might be another job for my abilities providing my lifestyle  

If you are concerned about the poorer ranks, look at the poorer ranks, instead of the job. 

So serious Q: how large is this poorer rank, supposedly? how has that size changed over the years? how does it compare to other admirable places in the world?

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The zombie CVS, a late-capitalism horror story

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-zombie-cvs-a-late-capitalism-horror-story/ar-BB1j9XFe

 

There is almost nothing left to steal at the CVS in Columbia Heights, and that gives you an idea of which items have actual value.

Blank CDs, for example — the thieves don’t even bother with them. The greeting card section has been left alone. The good magazines like Vogue and GQ and Sports Illustrated are gone, but there are still a few copies of Traditional Home, some special issues of Life devoted to Willie Nelson, and a Woman’s World that declares: “Bye bye, jiggly fat!” No soft drinks, but three gallon-sized jugs of Arizona green tea are still on the shelves on one recent visit.

Everything else that remains in the store in Northwest D.C., which is not much, is under plexiglass: Dawn dish soap, L’Oreal shampoo, MiraLax, a handful of Clairol root touch-up hair dye kits, flu season combo packs of DayQuil and NyQuil. The diapers are behind the counter. The Cetaphil and Neutrogena face washes are under lock and key.
Other shelves, stretching entire aisles, are totally empty.

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‘Dudes used to shovel a ton of gravel from a quarry and afford a 5 bedroom house and annual trips to Paris, and now they cant’
 

Like, maybe, todays market demands another job that is as or more economically productive and pays the dude commensurately and having fewer dudes shoveling gravel is a good thing.

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15 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

There is almost nothing left to steal at the CVS in Columbia Heights, and that gives you an idea of which items have actual value.

During the COVID grocery chaos I would always joke that whatever was left on the store shelf must really be awful.  30 ft of nothing and 4 SKU's just sitting there.

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On 2/22/2024 at 5:48 AM, Captainant said:

Shit, on an expensive ticket you're looking at $150-200 on fees that are not part of the listed price of the ticket. Shit should be illegal, but regulating business is unfortunately communism so we just get to bend over and enjoy it

 

On 2/24/2024 at 8:49 AM, Captainant said:

The enshittening is that telco providers have the solution to the spam and scam calling - add fucking authentication like the STIR/SHAKEN framework so that some dudes in in office in Chennai can't call me from my own cell number to tell me about my cars extended warranty. 

But the telcos won't, because it would take away a significant revenue stream from the number spoofing service for outbound calls that is used by legitimate businesses, and abused by scammers. Plus, implementing that authentication framework would finally push the telcos to upgrade the 60 year old systems that they've been taking money for to upgrade for decades. The executives don't want to spend the money because it would mean less payout to shareholders. 

 

On 2/23/2024 at 5:30 AM, Captainant said:

You will pay 30 to 50% more for all goods and you will be happy about it. Can't be harming profit margins for JORB CREATORZ!

 

 

Just a veritable fountain of "agreed upon facts".  Certainly not a never-ending spew of anti-capitalist bullshit.   The best part is the, "citations" provided to verify all these, "facts".

 

 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

‘Dudes used to shovel a ton of gravel from a quarry and afford a 5 bedroom house and annual trips to Paris, and now they cant’
 

Like, maybe, todays market demands another job that is as or more economically productive and pays the dude commensurately and having fewer dudes shoveling gravel is a good thing.

By definition, half of the population is below median intelligence. And median work ethic. And median opportunity for advancement. Those medians are already pretty low. Many above those median levels value other things in life/careers above future salary potential.

We can't all be lawyers and professional cyclists who work weekends at their local P5 University as their offensive coordinator like your average Surly member. And, if we could, then those jobs would no longer be in the 1%.

Yes, people should live within their means and not except to fly first class to the coast of Spain on a whim. But they should still be entitled to decent healthcare that doesn't scare them away from seeing their doctor for fear of unexpected charges and a complete lack of billing transparency. "I should find a better job, so I can finally have reasonable healthcare" is a shitty thing to have to consider in this country.

My wife works in biotech--well known for their excellent employee healthcare plans--and just got charged $1300 for a mammogram. We'll pay it if we can't win the "uh, isn't that preventative?" argument with insurance because it's ultimately worth it for piece of mind to know she's healthy. But how many people would get that bill one time, then avoid the hospital at all costs until something truly serious arose? Just a terrible system for most Americans.

Edited by aggie08
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10 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Just a veritable fountain of "agreed upon facts".  Certainly not a never-ending spew of anti-capitalist bullshit.   The best part is the, "citations" provided to verify all these, "facts".

Ok so in order of things:

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3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I literally just paid $150 in fees PER TICKET for a show I'm seeing in May. Do you want me to post my receipt or something? For fucks sake!

...only if the transaction is documented in a peer-reviewed academic journal that you(or direct relative) own.

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1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Fixating on a specific of job is wrong. Jobs change as the market change. I sit with my laptop at home doing emails and paid amply for it. This job wouldnt have been available to someone like me decades ago, and this job might be worth nothing decades from now. But there might be another job for my abilities providing my lifestyle  

If you are concerned about the poorer ranks, look at the poorer ranks, instead of the job. 

So serious Q: how large is this poorer rank, supposedly? how has that size changed over the years? how does it compare to other admirable places in the world?

The middle class is shrinking and it's not because there are that many more rich people. It costs more to be not poor, that bar keeps rising and the bar of average pay is rising slower than that. That's the fucking entire argument. People who used to be borderline middle class are now squarely  poor. the issue is at the same time the wealth of the top 0.01% has grown at the same clip of the total wealth of the bottom 50% and the top 10% being about the same as the mega ultra uber wealthy. Wealth disparity has never been greater than it is now at any point of American history, not just modern history. It's completely fucking broken that actual rich people feel absolutely dwarfed by thousands of other people. Having a few billionaires was crazy, now there's thousands of billionaires. It makes no sense. 


Being poor in the USA is still way fucking better than being poor in other countries, this is relative to our country not globally. 

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3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

By definition, half of the population is below median intelligence. And median work ethic. And median opportunity for advancement. Those medians are already pretty low.

Ok, its all superficially correct and even agreeable, but is there any substantive or are we just gonna lean on superlatives as adjectives?

Whats low about these medians? How low exactly is this low?

Just saying “low is bad” is a fun tautology  

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Ok, its all superficially correct and even agreeable, but is there any substantive or are we just gonna lean on superlatives as adjectives?

Whats low about these medians? How low exactly is this low?

Just saying “low is bad” is a fun tautology  

 

Just pointing out the pretty obvious platitude that there are always going to be the haves and have nots, due to various internal and external factors. And have nots should still be entitled to decent, affordable health care.

I thought we were one the topic of people not being satisfied with their healthcare situation should seek other employment. Which derailed into general employer shittiness and the shrinking of the middle class.

But, honestly, I black out a little whenever I try to read this thread, so I'm probably behind.

Edited by aggie08
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Just now, MissingInAction said:

The poors in the US having nice things is why we/they haven't burned this motherfucker down yet. 

The same reason a fed dog doesn't bite, and will protect it's owner with it's life.

this is correct - now we can get back on track.

Enshittification is racing to the bottom on how far can the populace be pushed before revolting. We are teetering on the border of "this is okay" and that's what everyone is feeling/seeing/hearing. It's amplified by everything that used to be great turning to absolute dogshit and a money grab

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5 minutes ago, immamac said:

. People who used to be borderline middle class are now squarely  poor. the issue is at the same time the wealth of the top 0.01% has grown at the same clip of the total wealth of the bottom 50% and the top 10% being about the same as the mega ultra uber wealthy

It's completely fucking broken that actual rich people feel absolutely dwarfed by thousands of other people. Having a few billionaires was crazy, now there's thousands of billionaires. It makes no sense. 

What precisely makes up of this middle class that you base your post on? It gets boring relitigating stuff from pages ago, but the *median* household has more money, in *real terms*, than ever before. 

The lower middle (2nd lowest quintile) has more money, in real terms, than ever before. 

The official US Census’ poverty rate has stayed flat around 11% for forever. World Bank has Germany at 16%, Sweden at 16%, Netherlands at 14%, Switzerland at 16%. (They use slightly different criteria but the aim of the metric is similar). 

So what it comes down to is that people in the US at all income classes are doing better and better relative to the living costs….but you claim its bad because they *might not* be improving *as fast* as the upper upper upper classes?

That is a really fucked up toxic belief. Like, if im a orthopedic surgeon and “quite rich”, its terrible because jeff bezos the billionaire is way richer? Thats not broken economics, thats broken psychology. 
 

**
 

also lookie here and give me your thoughts. 

fredgraph.png

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2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

 

fredgraph.png

A person can look at this and say, maybe if the red line gets decomposed into 80-90 & 90-100, that 2nd subgroup actually shot up at the expense of the 1st, but the data isnt available in deciles (or smaller).
 

And also the point still absolutely stands. If you’re in the 80-90 and rising, but your problem is the 90-100 rose more quickly…thats just petty jealousy. And the crux behind lots of peoples psychology here. 

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26 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

What precisely makes up of this middle class that you base your post on? It gets boring relitigating stuff from pages ago, but the *median* household has more money, in *real terms*, than ever before. 

The lower middle (2nd lowest quintile) has more money, in real terms, than ever before. 

The official US Census’ poverty rate has stayed flat around 11% for forever. World Bank has Germany at 16%, Sweden at 16%, Netherlands at 14%, Switzerland at 16%. (They use slightly different criteria but the aim of the metric is similar). 

So what it comes down to is that people in the US at all income classes are doing better and better relative to the living costs….but you claim its bad because they *might not* be improving *as fast* as the upper upper upper classes?

That is a really fucked up toxic belief. Like, if im a orthopedic surgeon and “quite rich”, its terrible because jeff bezos the billionaire is way richer? Thats not broken economics, thats broken psychology. 
 

**
 

also lookie here and give me your thoughts. 

fredgraph.png

My thought is the middle/median class gets very distorted now because of these two charts below and sure... salaries/income tend to raise over time across the board to keep up with cost of living:

image.thumb.png.8196fe41c60370c69629aad1aaa3f96e.png

image.thumb.png.bdda46ab17f3233933b1bc8d34908f0e.png

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23 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

There's little common ground between middle class of 50 years ago and middle class now. For one thing, everybody wasn't a fat ass.

50 years ago everyone smoked a pack of Pall Malls a day.  Do you want the health system to struggle to treat lung cancer or diabetes?

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1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

So how does it get fixed?

Bitch a lot.

Sit on your couch and be pissed that life hasn't fallen in your lap yet.

Say folks who disagree or have a different perspective just haven't seen enough yet.

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50 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

50 years ago everyone smoked a pack of Pall Malls a day.  Do you want the health system to struggle to treat lung cancer or diabetes?

The kids at my grade school were all into Gauloises, we were, 'ow do you say, intellectuals.

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Man, it's crazy people walk around this motherfucker seeing the price of goods, vehicles, and real estate and still think the way these guys do. We are all olds now and in decent positions in life but one should keep their ear to the ground because the generation behind us is struggling. You don't need charts to see it either. The birthing rates and amount of young adults living with their parents says all you need to know. 

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4 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

The zombie CVS, a late-capitalism horror story

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-zombie-cvs-a-late-capitalism-horror-story/ar-BB1j9XFe

 

There is almost nothing left to steal at the CVS in Columbia Heights, and that gives you an idea of which items have actual value.

Blank CDs, for example — the thieves don’t even bother with them. The greeting card section has been left alone. The good magazines like Vogue and GQ and Sports Illustrated are gone, but there are still a few copies of Traditional Home, some special issues of Life devoted to Willie Nelson, and a Woman’s World that declares: “Bye bye, jiggly fat!” No soft drinks, but three gallon-sized jugs of Arizona green tea are still on the shelves on one recent visit.

Everything else that remains in the store in Northwest D.C., which is not much, is under plexiglass: Dawn dish soap, L’Oreal shampoo, MiraLax, a handful of Clairol root touch-up hair dye kits, flu season combo packs of DayQuil and NyQuil. The diapers are behind the counter. The Cetaphil and Neutrogena face washes are under lock and key.
Other shelves, stretching entire aisles, are totally empty.

Washington, DC is getting enshittified. The first and foremost problem is the COVID-driven flight of workers from the city to the comfy suburbs.  That’s been compounded by some really bad city management decisions, especially on policing. There’s no doubt that the city is less pleasant than it was even a decade ago.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/03/01/downtown-dc-transformation-plan-00144253 

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21 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Man, it's crazy people walk around this motherfucker seeing the price of goods, vehicles, and real estate and still think the way these guys do. We are all olds now and in decent positions in life but one should keep their ear to the ground because the generation behind us is struggling. You don't need charts to see it either. The birthing rates and amount of young adults living with their parents says all you need to know. 

It's like none of us have kids who are twenty0somethings.  None of us at all.

 

Totally disconnected.  Again, I just need to get outside my bubble...

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27 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Man, it's crazy people walk around this motherfucker seeing the price of goods, vehicles, and real estate and still think the way these guys do. We are all olds now and in decent positions in life but one should keep their ear to the ground because the generation behind us is struggling. You don't need charts to see it either. The birthing rates and amount of young adults living with their parents says all you need to know. 

What does "the generation behind us" mean? 

I'm Gen X, so for me that's Millennials, who are set to become the wealthiest generation in history according to this article.

Link

 

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