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Posted
He played in a handful of games as he was hurt all last year.  He was 24.  High school and directional school ball doesn’t have the power in hits to helmet.  Blaming CTE for this is delusional.  
 
Ummm, what?

Please share the medical reports detailing how CTE can only be obtained by playing in Power 4 conferences or the NFL.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Scholz said:

Didn't say it wasn't heartbreaking. Just saying wait a while and the problems will get better. Problems "feeling" permanent when they're not is not a reason to end your life. 

From outside this looks like the logical answer.  It’s the way life works.  Terrible issues usually dissipate.  But once a person enters that world where suicide appears as the path to ending their pain, whether it’s brain chemistry, or emotional, or genetic, it’s a very complex basket of snakes to untangle.  
 

the “wait a while scenario” usually only works with strong intervention, therapy, love, and monitoring.  And still it often results in failure to prevent it.  
 

I have a friend who’s 12 year old daughter did it out of the blue.  Can’t imagine the guilt and pain.  Several others thru the years who did for odd reasons that just destroyed their families.  

Posted
4 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Ummm, what?

Please share the medical reports detailing how CTE can only be obtained by playing in Power 4 conferences or the NFL.
 

Yeah, I'm not so sure about that.  Present in 21% of high school football players. https://www.bu.edu/articles/2017/cte-former-nfl-players/ The main issue seems to be repetitiveness and hs players may not have had sufficient reps.

And, while the permanent/temporary thing is true as far as it goes, it reflects a misunderstanding or failure to understand depression, suicidal ideation, and related mental health issues.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Please share the medical reports detailing how CTE can only be obtained by playing in Power 4 conferences or the NFL.

you're basically making an argument against yourself here.

the guy had a history of mental illness.

Posted (edited)

Unless he donated his brain for study I don't think we'll ever know. Maybe his family can donate it if they want to know? I think it's a fair question but should be answered only if the family wants to know.

Edited by 'stache
Posted
6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, I'm not so sure about that.  Present in 21% of high school football players. https://www.bu.edu/articles/2017/cte-former-nfl-players/ The main issue seems to be repetitiveness and hs players may not have had sufficient reps.

too little is known about CTE to draw any significant conclusions from any studies currently available.  for the most part it's only looked for in former athletes but it has been found in people who have never played contact sports in their life.  it could be a physiological process that occurs with aging.  it could be largely asymptomatic.  while there is some data it comes from an extremely narrow subset of the population; >99.99% of the time when people pass away they aren't checking for CTE post mortem.

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Posted
14 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:


And you know this how?

Because I understand how football works. He wouldve been preparing for the game instead of out late doing whatever led to this mess. When it's a bye week, the team basically cuts you loose for the week and you lose that week to week structure and schedule that you were getting. 

Posted
10 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Because I understand how football works. He wouldve been preparing for the game instead of out late doing whatever led to this mess. When it's a bye week, the team basically cuts you loose for the week and you lose that week to week structure and schedule that you were getting. 

Weird comment. He had all offseason to commit suicide. I love wild ass assumptions. 

I understand how dismissive “permanent solution to temporary problem” can sound. Callous as it may sound, it’s absolutely true. It’s just really sad that he apparently wasn’t getting the help he needed to begin to see that. I wish we could all take a break from being angry at each other and presumptuous, and just sit and reflect about how tragic this is. 

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Posted
15 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Because I understand how football works. He wouldve been preparing for the game instead of out late doing whatever led to this mess. When it's a bye week, the team basically cuts you loose for the week and you lose that week to week structure and schedule that you were getting. 

It was sometime after 10:30pm on a Wednesday.  If there was a game Sunday, what structure/schedule would he be under that limits ones ability for self harm?

Posted
10 minutes ago, Cruz in Aledo said:

I wish we could all take a break from being angry at each other and presumptuous,

get fucked, asshole.  if this were a game week he would still be alive.  period.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Texzilla58 said:

He played in a handful of games as he was hurt all last year.  He was 24.  High school and directional school ball doesn’t have the power in hits to helmet.  Blaming CTE for this is delusional.  
 

100% wrong

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

It was sometime after 10:30pm on a Wednesday.  If there was a game Sunday, what structure/schedule would he be under that limits ones ability for self harm?

I'll wait for the toxicology report

Posted
2 hours ago, Scholz said:

Didn't say it wasn't heartbreaking. Just saying wait a while and the problems will get better. Problems "feeling" permanent when they're not is not a reason to end your life. 

jesus christ. it pains me to know that fully grown adults can think like this. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, markstanco said:

My father's best friend did it to himself after failing twice before, he was a well known doctor with a beautiful family.  He thought nobody liked him, and that was the reason.  At the funeral people were turned away from the church and had to stay outside. About 5 years ago his daughter did the same thing. 

Wow, that's awful about the daughter. Just as studies seem to indicate that the propensity to commit crime may be hereditary, (they tracked families in Philadelphia that were criminals over many generations) perhaps the urge to kill yourself can also be inherited.   

Posted
jesus christ. it pains me to know that fully grown adults can think like this. 

Typically, when you go full Derka I tend to check out of the thread involved. In this instance, I fully support it. Between the comment you quoted and Hornsby’s most recent intelligent ramblings it is very clear that even in 2025 our society still has so much to learn about mental health.
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Posted
2 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

What demons get into a kid’s head as he looks so successful?  The Cowboys have always done much to help their players with personal troubles whether Gregory, or Tyron Smith, Josh Brent, or even Kelvin Joseph.  Jerry loves redemption stories.  

so many people still have zero understanding of mental illness. after stuff like this happens people love to post stuff like, “check in on your loved ones” and “reach out to someone if you need help”, but neither of those things are realistic options. you reaching out to a mentally ill person will affect whether or not they harm themselves 0.0%. and from the other side, nobody who is sick enough to want to kill themselves is going to reach out to anyone for help, because when you’re in that state of mind, talking to someone else sounds about as appealing as cutting off your own dick. it’s never going to happen.

there’s nothing that anyone can do to stop someone from killing themselves barring you actually being physically present and taking the gun from them, or talking them off the bridge. until the powers that be in this country actually give any fucks about helping out the mentally ill, this is what we’ll be left with: extremely vulnerable sick people from all walks of life, living among the absolutely clueless masses. there is nothing out there in the way of real help and understanding for mentally ill people, and that’s the real tragedy- marshawn kneelands will continue to live on the very edge of life and death, sanity and insanity, and very few people will actually know or care.

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Posted
29 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

Wow, that's awful about the daughter. Just as studies seem to indicate that the propensity to commit crime may be hereditary, (they tracked families in Philadelphia that were criminals over many generations) perhaps the urge to kill yourself can also be inherited.   

So I should stop watching the 2025 Texas offense for my kids’ sake?

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Posted
2 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

My heart breaks now for his loved ones. According to the DMN (dallas morning news) he had a history of mental health struggles (not sure what or how long or why) and those who were close to him tried to help him that night by calling for a wellness check. But when cops arrived he had already left the house. That he had expressed suicidal ideations that night to those close to him and that they sought help. 
 

Beyond sad. Heartbreaking. 💔 

Nicole hits on an important phrase. If someone you know is saying they “want to die”  or similar,  the best way to get the attention of the authorities (or to get them admitted if that’s an option) is to use the phrase suicidal ideation. 
source: married to a mental health professional for 20 years

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Posted
25 minutes ago, Derka said:

you reaching out to a mentally ill person will affect whether or not they harm themselves 0.0%

Probably not but sure would be nice to check in on my kids, talk about this and ascertain their emotional and mental well being. It’s totally reasonable advice. 

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

What monitoring would there be on game week that would inhibit his ability to abuse substances?

The fact that you want to prepare properly for a game? What kind of question is that? Also, who knows, maybe the cowboys drug test the players? 

Did you ever get home from summer break and smoke pot with friends immediately, often times people do drugs when they know they have time off...

Again, I will wait for the toxicology report. 

Posted
13 minutes ago, tokamak said:

So I should stop watching the 2025 Texas offense for my kids’ sake?

That's not funny or appropriate at this time.

 

14 minutes ago, tokamak said:

So I should stop watching the 2025 Texas offense for my kids’ sake?

But yes, you should stop watching for the sake of your kids. 

Posted
39 minutes ago, Derka said:

so many people still have zero understanding of mental illness. after stuff like this happens people love to post stuff like, “check in on your loved ones” and “reach out to someone if you need help”, but neither of those things are realistic options. you reaching out to a mentally ill person will affect whether or not they harm themselves 0.0%

Lol, 0.0% huh? And you are on here exclaiming that everyone else has zero understanding of mental illness? You would be 100% wrong that reaching out to people and showing you care/love them makes no difference. It can make all the difference. 

Posted
14 minutes ago, Cruz in Aledo said:

Probably not but sure would be nice to check in on my kids, talk about this and ascertain their emotional and mental well being. It’s totally reasonable advice. 

not when it’s used in the context of stopping someone from killing themselves.

Posted (edited)

All you Surly assholes give your kids (no matter their age) a call today/tonight and tell them you love them. That you were simply thinking about them and want them to know how important they are to you. I called my son today and had a long talk with him.

We are just now beginning to learn so much more about mental health issues and the biology in the brain. Repetitive Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation, combined with certain type of ketamine infusions have shown promise in addressing some symptoms of CTE, depression and other mental health issues. Research is on-going about micro-implants in certain parts of the brain to regulate electrical pulses and blood flow.

Whatever the mental health issue is, the reality is they can no longer simply be talked out combined with traditional pharmaceutical intervention. 

Lecture over.  Go give your kids a hug, assholes.

Oh...here is an interesting article on some of these treatment regimens.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11205489/

Edited by Lidig8r
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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Lol, 0.0% huh? And you are on here exclaiming that everyone else has zero understanding of mental illness? You would be 100% wrong that reaching out to people and showing you care/love them makes no difference. It can make all the difference. 

yes, 0.0%. a person on the verge of suicide isn’t waiting for a phone call from a loved one to stop them from doing it. 

or how about this specific case right here? you don’t think his friends and family who knew of his struggles ever reached out to him to check on him? of course they did. did it matter? is he alive? or did he kill himself because he’s mentally ill?

Edited by Derka
Posted
3 hours ago, Scholz said:

Didn't say it wasn't heartbreaking. Just saying wait a while and the problems will get better. Problems "feeling" permanent when they're not is not a reason to end your life. 

What were Kneeland's problems?

Permanence is relative. True permanence is that we are all doomed to an end at some point. That is a problem we all share and cannot escape. 

"What does it mean to be a self-conscious animal? The idea is ludicrous, if it is not monstrous. It means to know that one is food for worms."

Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death 

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Derka said:

not when it’s used in the context of stopping someone from killing themselves.

You seem like you want an argument. If I’m doing my job (my kids are teenagers), I am constantly assessing and any real trouble should be detected, identified and addressed long before harmful action is taken. I understand situations where it’s unavoidable. I don’t take that possibility and just stop trying. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, Scholz said:

Didn't say it wasn't heartbreaking. Just saying wait a while and the problems will get better. Problems "feeling" permanent when they're not is not a reason to end your life. 

Yeah, people who are in that state of mind aren’t thinking “just let me wait around a minute and things will get better.” Your take is an oversimplified and dumb view of the state of mind of people in a suicidal state of mind. 

3 minutes ago, Horn80 said:

How do you go from scoring a defensive TD on national TV making a lifetime memory to this tragedy within a few  hours?

Mental illness is a real bitch.

Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Cruz in Aledo said:

You seem like you want an argument.

well that would be you inferring something that isn’t there.

15 minutes ago, Cruz in Aledo said:

If I’m doing my job (my kids are teenagers), I am constantly assessing and any real trouble should be detected, identified and addressed long before harmful action is taken. I understand situations where it’s unavoidable. I don’t take that possibility and just stop trying. 

nobody told you to stop trying. what i am saying is that these ubiquitous, “reach out to your loved ones!” posts that we see every time someone kills themselves might be well intended, but it’s not advice that is ever going to stop someone from committing suicide. 

again, the point is this: millions of mentally ill people who had great support systems and lots of loved ones have still killed themselves, and it’s not because they didn’t have enough people “reaching out”, it’s because of the dire lack of real, practical, effective mental health care in this country. even rich people with access to all of the best health care commit suicide every day. you can reach out all you want, but until we, as a nation, take mental healthcare seriously, this will continue to happen all over the country every single day, and that shouldn’t be the case. we absolutely could and should do better. it’s criminal that the richest country in the world is the only with a mental health problem this severe.

Edited by Derka
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Posted
1 hour ago, freyguy said:

100% wrong

This.  You can get CTE from riding a jet ski too long and over an extended period of time.  It's not the "big" hits that give you CTE.  It's repetitive contact.  Meaning linemen are the MOST susceptible.   

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Derka said:

well that would be you inferring something that isn’t there.

nobody told you to stop trying. what i am saying is that these ubiquitous, “reach out to your loved ones!” posts that we see every time someone kills themselves might be well intended, but it’s not advice that is ever going to stop someone from committing suicide. 

again, the point is this: millions of mentally ill people who had great support systems and lots of loved ones have still killed themselves, and it’s not because they didn’t have enough people “reaching out”, it’s because of the dire lack of real, practical, effective mental health care in this country. even rich people with access to all of the best health care commit suicide every day. you can reach out all you want, but until we, as a nation, take mental healthcare seriously, this will continue to happen all over the country every single day, and that shouldn’t be the case. we absolutely could and should do better. it’s criminal that the richest country in the world is the only with a mental health problem this severe.

I get all of that. My son is a handsome, intelligent, and popular athlete. Has a very high anxiety level and was diagnosed with GAD. We have provided help, and he is currently thriving. But I will always keep an extra eye on him and openly talk about situations like Kneelands suicide. It may ultimately do zero good. However I feel part of why people commit suicide is they don’t know how to get help, and I wanted to start him out as soon as we knew there was a problem. 

I understand what you are saying. If a person is hellbent on committing suicide or is so unstable that an event can trigger an emotional act like a suicide, there is little to nothing family can do. I suspect a not insignificant portion of those people never received true help or help early enough. I could be way off about that. But I also don’t think “hug your kids” is bad advice, as it could lead parents down a road of discovery that is ultimately life saving. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TreatyOak said:

Wow, that's awful about the daughter. Just as studies seem to indicate that the propensity to commit crime may be hereditary, (they tracked families in Philadelphia that were criminals over many generations) perhaps the urge to kill yourself can also be inherited.   

The broader heritage/genetic aspect of crime is still in early discovery, too many alinging factors that could point to alternative factors particularly socio-economic and parental. However, the mental health aspects appear to be far more conclusive regarding genetics, and a tie in to criminal behavior there is stronger as well in certain aspects/areas of crime. Drug addiction/crime shows the clearest correlation and abuse aligned with those mental/drug ailments.

That said, mental health is so complex and individual it's very dangerous to cast any wide nets. Some medicines work great for one but not another. Some therapy helps one but not another. Sadly, there's more we don't know than do. 

Derka hit on it but the lack of funding for good mental health care and research in the US is terrible.

Conversely as others have noted sometimes all the support in the world won't prevent suicide. 

When working my mental health I had a client suffering from depression when a drunk driver ran into the car carrying his wife, son and only child, daughter in law and grand child. 

They all passed. He was in his mid 50s. He was getting help and had family support but ultimately took his own life as everyone most important to him in his life was gone in one moment. He was a Longhorn fan and I would talk to him about the prospect of a new season or what was going well outside that but honestly, it was really, really hard to dispute his logic of wanting to join them in the after life. (He was very spiritual)

Then there was another who suffered horrible schizophrenia with voices that told him to kill himself. He got medicated and affected that he had gotten better and no longer heard the voices nor wanted to harm himself. Once released within a day or two he took his own life. 

We should do everything we can from cheering on people we know and supporting those in our circle to pushing for funding. We should also never make assumptions about a situation or what someone was suffering. Particularly, we should never assume those around them weren't helping as best they could. That's potentially putting blame on someone already suffering is just additional cruelty.

Edited by BurntEyes
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Posted
45 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Lol, 0.0% huh? And you are on here exclaiming that everyone else has zero understanding of mental illness? You would be 100% wrong that reaching out to people and showing you care/love them makes no difference. It can make all the difference. 

Seems like his girlfriend was worried about him and trying to reach out to him. How did that work out? You have no clue about how mental illness impacts people. Take a break, dude.

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Posted
Just now, BabaYaga said:

This.  You can get CTE from riding a jet ski too long and over an extended period of time.  It's not the "big" hits that give you CTE.  It's repetitive contact.  Meaning linemen are the MOST susceptible.   

image.gif.f92303ddf494b24e89e3bc942c9d6602.gif

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Cruz in Aledo said:

But I also don’t think “hug your kids” is bad advice, as it could lead parents down a road of discovery that is ultimately life saving. 

i agree with this, and the rest of your post. i just feel like (beer with me here) this situation is kind of like recycling- i never litter, i recycle everything i can, and i’ll always do my part, but i also know that me doing this will only go so far, and it bothers and upsets me that the impetus has been left on us, the public, to recycle “so that we can save our planet.”

it’s like, “hey you wanna save the planet? regulate the shit out of chevron, exxon, shell, etc. don’t tell me to put my little plastic bottle into the green bin like that’s the answer.” of course it’s great to be a loving and involved parent, and lord knows we desperately need a lot more of those. with that said, let’s move on from the idea that “reaching out” to mentally ill people is what’s needed to prevent suicides, and let’s start taking this issue even remotely seriously for the first time ever here in America.

Edited by Derka
Posted
2 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

It was sometime after 10:30pm on a Wednesday.  If there was a game Sunday, what structure/schedule would he be under that limits ones ability for self harm?

Sleeping is for pussies

 

gettyimages-79441340-612x612.jpg

Posted

So we are just gonna believe the cops now? I'm not saying anything else happened but since when do we just take that at face value without considering anything else. 

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