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Posted
1 hour ago, Red Five said:

Kind of hard to get a read at what we have at WR after that game.

The read is that they aren't as good as OSU DBs. Seemed like they got solidly outmatched

Posted
1 minute ago, Tex-19 said:

The read is that they aren't as good as OSU DBs. Seemed like they got solidly outmatched

Well those are pretty good DBs. But I'm not sure I even agree with that.

Not to oversimplify things, but if Manning can hit the fucking side of a barn we win. We almost won regardless.

Posted
1 minute ago, Hank_Hill said:

They beat them enough for us to win. Which is the goal.

Yeah, there's blame to go around everywhere, horrible pass attempts, wtf drops, weird play calls.  Arch needs a shit ton of film time.

Posted
1 minute ago, Wishbone said:

Arch had a bad day. Sark had a worse day. We’ll go from here.

Reverse that. Arch had a miss rate we haven’t seen since Swoopes. That stat is the difference in the game. The only argument Sark had a worse day is if you think Arch should’ve been pulled at the half. Arch was ass. Sark manufactured more yards, first downs and 3rd down conversions than the opposition despite that. With a replacement level QB, Sark produces a win.

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Posted
Just now, softlynow said:

Reverse that. Arch had a miss rate we haven’t seen since Swoopes. That stat is the difference in the game. The only argument Sark had a worse day is if you think Arch should’ve been pulled at the half. Arch was ass. Sark manufactured more yards, first downs and 3rd down conversions than the opposition despite that. With a replacement level QB, Sark produces a win.

Disagree. You might also want to take a look at Jeff Howe’s assessment of the game. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, softlynow said:

Reverse that. Arch had a miss rate we haven’t seen since Swoopes. That stat is the difference in the game. The only argument Sark had a worse day is if you think Arch should’ve been pulled at the half. Arch was ass. Sark manufactured more yards, first downs and 3rd down conversions than the opposition despite that. With a replacement level QB, Sark produces a win.

LOL what?  I didn't love the play-calling but there comes a point when passers need to pass and receivers need to catch.  Kudos to the running game and the defense.  I don't care who the opponent is, 14 pts should at least get you to overtime.

Posted
2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

LOL what?  I didn't love the play-calling but there comes a point when passers need to pass and receivers need to catch.  Kudos to the running game and the defense.  I don't care who the opponent is, 14 pts should at least get you to overtime.

Agreed. Not sure we’re disagreeing about anything. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Red Five said:

I went and looked it up. It was fair. Shitty, vanilla game plan that was made worse by Arch playing like shit.

That was pretty much the point.

Posted
1 minute ago, Wishbone said:

That was pretty much the point.

That’s a meh take. Even with the vanilla plan, guys were open, Arch just couldn’t make the throws. Arch fucked us more than Sark.

Posted
1 minute ago, softlynow said:

That’s a meh take. Even with the vanilla plan, guys were open, Arch just couldn’t make the throws. Arch fucked us more than Sark.

Look, they both sucked. I don’t really care anymore if the blame lies heavier to one or the other. This abomination is over and I am looking forward to hopefully not see us lay a fucking turd like that the rest of the season. By anyone in the organization. With any luck, that will be as bad as it gets this year. On the bright side, the defense looks like it can be counted on again this year.

Posted
That’s a meh take. Even with the vanilla plan, guys were open, Arch just couldn’t make the throws. Arch fucked us more than Sark.

Arch is supposed to struggle in his first road start.
Sark should be better than 1 of 5 on fourth down
Posted
2 hours ago, satyanash said:

Feels like we were sold a bill of goods this offseason on Arch and the WR corps. Mosley's injury should not have been enough to cripple our entire intermediate-to-downfield passing attack.

You Got Me GIF by HULU

Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Wishbone said:

Disagree. You might also want to take a look at Jeff Howe’s assessment of the game. 

I’m ill-equipped to apportion blame, but one certainty is fucking Jeff Howe isn’t a good resource for football X and O’s.  He’s only one level up from Ketch.  

Edited by LCHorn
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Posted
16 minutes ago, chad.ihrig said:


Arch is supposed to struggle in his first road start.
 

There’s a spectrum of struggling. He was wayyyyyy too far on the shitty side of that spectrum for what is expected of him at this point. 

Posted (edited)

Until I see different, I’m going with the assumption that Arch doesn’t have it. Bummer.

 

No idea what was up with Sark. I know he can call good game plans because I’ve seen him do it. 

Edited by tbone_
Posted (edited)

My four hour reaction is the same while watching;

1. Both defenses are STOUT. 
2. Arch was not good, but he’ll get settled. 
3. Very vanilla on defense, we did not make Sayin uncomfortable, and he was not good. He will lose the games. 
4. Felt like Sark was protecting Arch. 
  • zero creativity on offense - especially in the run game.
5. Homer hot take- kept it vanilla for league play . 
 

this game won’t define either teams season. This is my Ted talk. 

Edited by theaveragejon
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Posted
1 hour ago, Wishbone said:

Disagree. You might also want to take a look at Jeff Howe’s assessment of the game. 

I don't need Jeff to tell me what I saw.  I like the dude and all, but when the opposing defense doesn't respect your QB, it doesn't matter what you call.

Posted
1 minute ago, theaveragejon said:

4. Felt like Sark was protecting Arch. 
  • zero creativity on offense - especially in the run game.

See, I don't see how this was protecting Arch. That first half looked like someone woke up our offense at 3 am sometime in May and said "go play Ohio St right now". 

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Posted

The disappointment in Arch's performance is completely fair. He was tight all game, missed plenty of bunnies, and overthrew the ball A LOT. 

To think he just sucks is ridiculous. Clearly he needs a lot more reps to settle in, and the next 3 scrimmages should have him ready for conference play. It blows we'll have to wait a month to see him in a high pressure situation again. 

 

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Posted (edited)

I want to see Livingston and Endries get more passes. Both guys stepped up when called upon. Wingo was disappointing but I don't feel he was put in the best position to take advantage of his strengths. Running game looks like it should be solid. Defense was pretty outstanding given the almost total lack of help by the offense for 3 quarters. We won't know anything until Florida. 

Does Arch need someone to help him stretch better? The weird rotator stuff he constantly does strikes me as really odd. Like he's never comfortable in his pads. 

Edited by mdmost
Posted
5 minutes ago, Red Five said:

See, I don't see how this was protecting Arch. That first half looked like someone woke up our offense at 3 am sometime in May and said "go play Ohio St right now". 

I think after arch threw two dog shit passes to WR who were open, the crossing to Wingo into the dirt comes to mind, it felt like we turtled on passing and offense. Like I said, just my view on it.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 It blows we'll have to wait a month to see him in a high pressure situation again. 

That's a good thing IMO. Too soon might be too soon and also affords more opportunities for the backup QBs to get reps, just in case. Hopefully, he does well enough that Sark will feel comfortable pulling him to allow those backups reps.

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Posted

I just don’t understand how Arch’s mechanics regressed so much year-over-year. Flat-footed/side-arm bullshit was a specialty of Quinn and Arch looks to have taken the mantle. The OL gave him all day to throw in many cases and his fundamentals still looked horrific. That miss to Wingo on the last drive was just so egregious and preventable and I thought his mechanics & footwork were going to be the one obvious upgrade over Quinn going into the year.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Can't even begin to evaluate the receivers without all 22 video, especially if you watched it on tv. Even in person how many people aren't watching the ball?

I was there watching them as much as I could. Wingo does not look like a polished or technical WR. He looks like a big fast guy who runs reverses and gets the ball in space but doesn't know what a WR should be doing. (I got the same vibes from him last year but assumed it was because he was freshman.) On the almost-pick that got reversed he loafed down the field totally alone and cut off his route way late, making Arch wait. 

McJaggy and Moore looked like real receivers by comparison.

Edited by mwaadeeb
Posted

Did the same five OL play the entire game? I don't remember seeing anyone else. Not even a rotation with Stroh and Neto was crazy. 

I guess that club got taken off Goosby's hand prior to the start of the game sometime. 

Posted
I just don’t understand how Arch’s mechanics regressed so much year-over-year. Flat-footed/side-arm bullshit was a specialty of Quinn and Arch looks to have taken the mantle. The OL gave him all day to throw in many cases and his fundamentals still looked horrific. That miss to Wingo on the last drive was just so egregious and preventable and I thought his mechanics & footwork were going to be the one obvious upgrade over Quinn going into the year.

Maybe Sark and Milwee suck at coaching QBs.
Posted
8 minutes ago, Bodowned said:

I just don’t understand how Arch’s mechanics regressed so much year-over-year. Flat-footed/side-arm bullshit was a specialty of Quinn and Arch looks to have taken the mantle. The OL gave him all day to throw in many cases and his fundamentals still looked horrific. That miss to Wingo on the last drive was just so egregious and preventable and I thought his mechanics & footwork were going to be the one obvious upgrade over Quinn going into the year.

I'm right there with you. It feels like he was just mentally overwhelmed and uncomfortable throughout...I don't know how else to explain the breakdown in fundamentals. 

 

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Posted
14 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:


Maybe Sark and Milwee suck at coaching QBs.

They are the only common denominators in two straight underwhelming 5-star QBs…

We’ll see by midseason on Arch, I suppose.

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Posted

I’ll be eager to see the QB schools all 22 of the game. There were a couple of plays where Arch was waiting for guys to get open and by the time he went to throw it was too late. Then there were times the WRs got no separation hardly at all. 

1 hour ago, softlynow said:

That’s a meh take. Even with the vanilla plan, guys were open, Arch just couldn’t make the throws. Arch fucked us more than Sark.

Howe’s point is true. On the flip side, Ohio st was pretty vanilla as well. Sayin just didn’t turn the ball over and executed what our defense gave him. The first td was aided by our dumb penalties and the second td to Tate was under thrown but he gave his guy a chance at least. I wasn’t a fan of the overall game plan from Sark but I’m struggling to see how it was the ultimate deciding factor in the loss. Our second deep redzone drive that ended up as a turn over on downs wasn’t called horribly. Better throw from Arch to Wingo at the minimum makes it first and goal. The fourth down play, Wingo was wide open on the slant and maybe even scores. I don’t know the read on that one tho. 

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Posted
46 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Did the same five OL play the entire game? I don't remember seeing anyone else. Not even a rotation with Stroh and Neto was crazy. 

I guess that club got taken off Goosby's hand prior to the start of the game sometime. 

Stroh and Neto were switching up quite a bit 

Posted
2 hours ago, softlynow said:

Reverse that. Arch had a miss rate we haven’t seen since Swoopes. That stat is the difference in the game. The only argument Sark had a worse day is if you think Arch should’ve been pulled at the half. Arch was ass. Sark manufactured more yards, first downs and 3rd down conversions than the opposition despite that. With a replacement level QB, Sark produces a win.

This is a pointless argument. Sark is the OC and supposed QB guru. Sark took an active role in the recruitment of Arch Manning. The quality of the QB play isn't an excuse for him, it's supposed to be the differentiator. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, mwaadeeb said:

I was there watching them as much as I could. Wingo does not look like a polished or technical WR. He looks like a big fast guy who runs reverses and gets the ball in space but doesn't know what a WR should be doing. (I got the same vibes from him last year but assumed it was because he was freshman.) On the almost-pick that got reversed he loafed down the field totally alone and cut off his route way late, making Arch wait. 

McJaggy and Moore looked like real receivers by comparison.

This is legit question.  On the final 4th down, he and Endries almost ran into each other on the mesh.  The play before, yes, it was a poor throw, but there’s a reason to question.  Looked as though he left his feet, but it’s also a bit odd it ended up behind him.  Others questioned the throw on the 5.  Yep, poor throw but not a ton of sellout either.

And think back to Golden missing in the Cotton Bowl.  No impact other than drawing PI.

Posted
I want to see Livingston and Endries get more passes. Both guys stepped up when called upon. Wingo was disappointing but I don't feel he was put in the best position to take advantage of his strengths. Running game looks like it should be solid. Defense was pretty outstanding given the almost total lack of help by the offense for 3 quarters. We won't know anything until Florida. 
Does Arch need someone to help him stretch better? The weird rotator stuff he constantly does strikes me as really odd. Like he's never comfortable in his pads. 

Sark needs to look at old footage of Reggie Bush/Ramonce Taylor and apply that to Wingo.
Posted

We have too many threads. I don't know where to put this so it's going here. A few thoughts from Nahlin:

 

I will never profess to knowing as much as a football coach, especially someone at the heights like Steve Sarkisian, but I do have access to those in the coaching profession that I have routine conversations with. After a couple of conversations since Texas’ loss, here are three things I would consider changing.

Scrap bully ball in the red zone, goal line

Texas has never been a bully ball team under Sarkisian, not even with Bijan Robinson or Roschon Johnson at running back. When they had the backs they didn’t have the O-line. Now, they don’t seem to have the backs and the O-line is still in question. 

Of this play, on 4th and 1, Sark went with a sneak in order to prevent Ohio State from substituting but “I think they got under us pretty good and kind of took Arch’s legs out from him. Hindsight is 20/20, if I could do it all over a gain, we probably sub and they put their big guys in, we put our big guys in, and see if we can get it in the end zone.”

I’m not sure that would do any good. If Sark wants to go the hero ball route with a big, tough quarterback, they should spread teams out and make them defend the entire goal line. 

This play wasn’t going to work either way you slice it, imo. 

For all his exceptional coaching ability, Sark has still yet to figure out the Red Zone and this sequence didn’t offer the ray of sunshine we were looking for in this contest.

Graceson Littleton to corner, Jaylon Guilbeau back to Star

Guilbeau’s a fine player but I’m not sure he’s the guy you want on an island, especially against an early-round draft pick like Carnell Tate. On Tate’s TD, Guilbeau got back in the frame but only because the ball was under thrown. Meanwhile, the true freshman Littleton looked electric at Star in his 19 snaps. 

Littleton was recruited as a corner and the early book on him was he was a faster version of Malik Muhammad. That looks about right after seeing him Saturday.

While I would consider making this switch, I wouldn’t necessarily start Littleton over Kobe Black. But, I do think the CB room would have better raw coverage ability if Gridlock made the move.

The knock on Guilbeau at Star was lack of assignment soundness but there are easier ways to help Star than a cornerback on an island. Plus, he’d be in a timeshare with Jelani McDonald.

Increase the electricity at running back

I realize Christian Clark is coming back from injury but he came back quicker than CJ Baxter who is already playing and just looking okay. I also realize he missed his freshman year but RB is one of the easier positions to integrate into an offense early. 

Tre Wisner and Baxter are solid players but they tend to get what a play is blocked for rather than providing a value-add. 

In my opinion, the coaches should give Clark a ton of carriers in the next few weeks to see what sort of mental load he can handle. And to also gauge his ball security and blitz pickup.

This move would also tie into the above point about bully ball. If you can’t bully your way down the field, you need some dynamism.

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