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Misadventures in the Middle East

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7 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

By that point the letter was all for show and it was released for damage control with GOP senators. Let’s not forget the timeline:

Correct.  I'd be surprised if the letter was ever sent to Erdogan.  It's post-hurricane cleanup intended to show that Trump had been strong well before he spoke with Erdogan directly.  Even then, it's bad, because now it looks like Trump caved.  Art of the deal, indeed.

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13 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm 50/50 as to whether I believe Trump sent that letter.  It's quite possible he drafted it yesterday but dated it October 9th.  

Because Trump.

Turkish spokesperson on NPR this morning said they had received it, but, and I'm translating loosely here, "Zero fucks were given in Ankara."

 

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4 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Turkish spokesperson on NPR this morning said they had received it, but, and I'm translating loosely here, "Zero fucks were given in Ankara."

 

I saw a claim yesterday that Erdogan had thrown it in the trash, but your account is closer to first person and actually believable.

 

EDIT:  got "three days" backwards.  Regardless, Pence's role is hilarious.

Edited by jimmyjazz

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50 US Nukes now held hostage by Turkey.


Turkey ‘effectively holding 50 US nuclear bombs hostage’ at air base amid Syria invasion

White House officials scrambling to retrieve weapons of mass destruction, reports say


An estimated 50 US nuclear bombs are effectively being held hostage in Turkey as Washington attempts to find a diplomatic way of responding to the country’s invasion of Syria, officials are reported to have warned.

The withdrawal of American troops from northern Syria – creating a power vacuum that has allowed Turkey and Russia to move into the region and displace Washington’s Kurdish allies – has caused international outcry.

And as even his supporters accuse the White House of betraying its allies, Donald Trump has been forced to escalate his opposition to Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan, threatening to “destroy” his counterpart's economy and contract America’s alliance with Ankara.

However, the rapid pace of withdrawal and the tumultuous decline of relations between the two countries has left administration officials scrambling to find a plan for the nuclear weapons stored under American control at the shared Incirlik Air Base in south east Turkey, reports said.

Officials from the State Department and Energy Department, which manages Washington's nuclear arsenal, met at the weekend to consider how they might retrieve an estimated fifty tactical nuclear weapons held at the site, according to The New York Times.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-syria-us-nuclear-weapons-bombs-trump-war-isis-kurds-a9158416.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1w1W_U   But her emails !!
     

Thank God we now have a President with a Mandate from heaven to guide us through this process instead of a man who bowed and apologized as a form of diplomacy.

Powered or glazed?

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1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's an absolutely asinine claim -- the vote was not unconstitutional.  Come on, Swindle.  Stop rotting whatever is left of your brain by paying attention to morons like that.

 

Wholeheartedly disagree with you that it's asinine. What's asinine is the idea that any of these fuckers in Congress care to uphold the Constitution (with the exception of a small group.)  Massie clearly lays out that he's been pushing for Congress to vote for the AUMF as the Constitution lays out, but that would require our Congressmen/women to actually record their stances for the support of war; and we know this is politically inconvenient.  

It's easy to go along with MSM foreign policy talking points my dude, but their are many out there that have boldly been calling it as it is since day 1 and very few exist on this board that can see it:  Democrats and Republicans for the most part are both part of the War Party for political and special interest reasons.  

And if you consider Thomas Massie a moron, who do you suggest I follow or consider to get other takes from?  Got any suggestions where I should get my information from to see things the way you see it?  

 

 

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1 minute ago, American Swindle said:

Wholeheartedly disagree with you that it's asinine.

So you believe yesterday's vote was unconstitutional?  On what grounds?

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So you believe yesterday's vote was unconstitutional?  On what grounds?

On what he imagines the constitution to be.

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1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

So you believe yesterday's vote was unconstitutional?  On what grounds?

I disagree with your assertion that Massie's take on this was asinine.  It's asinine that our troops were deployed there in the first place (unconstitutional) and without a vote or declaration of war from Congress.  

So you believe that our troops deployment(s) to Syria during the Obama years was Constitutional?  How about Trump's deployment of troops in SA?  

Wear that neo-con badge with honor Jimmy, I'm sure you think these deployments to defend the Kurds are worth enlisting in the military.  When are you going to sign up?

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22 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

I disagree with your assertion that Massie's take on this was asinine. 

I never said that.  The rest of your post is follow-on bullshit.

Kudos for the "when are you going to sign up" red herring.  I'll get right down to the recruiting office and see what they think of a myopic, asthmatic 56 year old man.  I mean, I have a graduate degree -- I guess I'm officer material.

Jesus Christ.  Try harder.

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11 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

Yes, when I think of non-interventionist there's nobody I think of more than Louie Gohmert.

Gohmert who voted against removing troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and insisted that Saddam's WMD's are stashed in Syria and was a total War on Terror Peter Pumper, is most definitely an noninterventionist. LOL

 

 

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So we are now demanding a ceasefire, in an invasion we gave the go-ahead for, allowing for evacuation of a "safe zone" (to a non-safe zone?) and bombing our own bases.  

Is this an F-troop episode?

Edited by Judge Roybeanbag

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3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I never said that.  The rest of your post is follow-on bullshit.

Kudos for the "when are you going to sign up" red herring.  I'll get right down to the recruiting office and see what they think of a myopic, asthmatic 56 year old man.  I mean, I have a graduate degree -- I guess I'm officer material.

Jesus Christ.  Try harder.

Quote

That's an absolutely asinine claim -- the vote was not unconstitutional.

He's making the claim based on the fact that the deployment of the troops into Northern Syria was unconstitutional to begin with and the process is ass backwards.  Thus, it is unconstitutional since the original AUMF was never declared by Congress. I mean, you could argue that Congress proposing and voting on a resolution *condemning* Trump's withdrawal is constitutional within the purview of Congress' power for sure, and I can concede that on a technical level, but the fact is the AUMF into Syria was not constitutional. Massie's take doesn't really seem irrational given those facts, but then again I don't have a graduate degree.

Were you critical of Trump when he unconstitutionally followed through with air strikes in Syria back in 2017?  Or were you okay with those?  

Nice humble brag btw, you must like the smell of your own farts.

Go ahead and respond by ignoring 80% of my questions, it only confirms that you're just another NPC.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by American Swindle

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1 hour ago, American Swindle said:

He's making the claim based on the fact that the deployment of the troops into Northern Syria was unconstitutional to begin with and the process is ass backwards.  Thus, it is unconstitutional since the original AUMF was never declared by Congress. I mean, you could argue that Congress proposing and voting on a resolution *condemning* Trump's withdrawal is constitutional within the purview of Congress' power for sure, and I can concede that on a technical level, but the fact is the AUMF into Syria was not constitutional. Massie's take doesn't really seem irrational given those facts, but then again I don't have a graduate degree.

Were you critical of Trump when he unconstitutionally followed through with air strikes in Syria back in 2017?  Or were you okay with those?  

Nice humble brag btw, you must like the smell of your own farts.

Go ahead and respond by ignoring 80% of my questions, it only confirms that you're just another NPC.  

What.  The.  Fuck?

ALL I questioned was the claim in the tweet that the vote was unconstitutional.  That's it.  I didn't say jack shit about Massie's goofy-assed interview.

Dude.  Dial it back.  

Final point:  if you think having a graduate degree on this site implies exclusivity, then you need more college-in'.  One could not swing a dead cat around here without hitting a doctor, lawyer, MBA, or PhD engineer around here.  Trust me, I'm far more impressed with my own farts, which are redolent of grapefruit and lavender, with subtle notes of coffee and Macallan 12.

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the human cost, we're all human right?  Trump idiocy and so many Kurds go to the grave. Beautiful human life murdered by Turks.

 

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I’m not sure Trump understands how this Turkey pardon around Thanksgiving is supposed to work.

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15 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

What.  The.  Fuck?

ALL I questioned was the claim in the tweet that the vote was unconstitutional.  That's it.  I didn't say jack shit about Massie's goofy-assed interview.

Dude.  Dial it back.  

Final point:  if you think having a graduate degree on this site implies exclusivity, then you need more college-in'.  One could not swing a dead cat around here without hitting a doctor, lawyer, MBA, or PhD engineer around here.  Trust me, I'm far more impressed with my own farts, which are redolent of grapefruit and lavender, with subtle notes of coffee and Macallan 12.

Dial it back?  It's the fucking Cloak Room dude.  People call each other "dumb fucking cunts" because they think the other posters on this board voted for someone they have been conditioned to hate.  Give me a fucking break.  

Also, you fail to even consider the deeper point or discussion surrounding the Constitutionality of our occupations in the ME.  At least I conceded to your view on what I had posted, but you can't even go one fucking iota to my side.  Furthermore, you couldn't recommend anyone I should follow or research that you value as a source of information, why is that?  

Lastly, if the question of "why don't you go enlist?" is a "red herring" as you call it, then answer me this: If Trump decided to send our Troops back into Northern Syria, do you think it's worth sending your son or daughter over there to risk their lives?  

I'm expecting an Elizabeth Warren style dodge to this yes or no question from you btw, all while sucking in your own fart and holding it in like a bong rip.  

 

Edited by American Swindle

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24 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Also, you fail to even consider the deeper point or discussion surrounding the Constitutionality of our occupations in the ME.  At least I conceded to your view on what I had posted, but you can't even go one fucking iota to my side.  Furthermore, you couldn't recommend anyone I should follow or research that you value as a source of information, why is that?  

To say the constitutionality of military occupations is complicated would be to put it mildly.  I'd prefer that our actions would be launched in accordance with your view, but I've seen enough debate on the topic to know there will never be consensus, and it's far from the top of my list of things to worry about on a daily basis.

If you're asking where I get my news, mostly WaPo, with a little NYT and British flavor (Guardian, BBC) thrown in for good measure.  And (believe it or not) I check out Al Jazeera now and again.

 

Quote

Lastly, if the question of "why don't you go enlist?" is a "red herring" as you call it, then answer me this: If Trump decided to send our Troops back into Northern Syria, do you think it's worth sending your son or daughter over there to risk their lives?  

Neither is old enough, but my daughter is considering West Point for college.  Given that she's a fairly typical left-leaning teenager, albeit a much more thoughtful and intellectually nimble version than most, I find it an interesting educational tack to consider, but it's her life.  We'll see if she continues to pursue -- as you surely know, it requires an appointment.  Perhaps the fact that two of my cousins are graduates will help.  One is a decorated war veteran who just resigned his position as an assistant athletic director to take a Director role with USASOC.  

I'm not sure why you care about any of this, but there you go.

Edited by jimmyjazz

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The gulf between Article I's reservation to Congress of the power to declare war and Article II's making the President Commander in Chief is broad.  I think there are some military actions that are below the "declaration of war" threshold and that's fine.  But if it's a prolonged shooting engagement, Congress needs to get off it's ass and approve or disapprove.

Not sure you can call congressional inaction, or executive action, unconstitutional.  I think as a matter of prudence, though, Congress should speak more often than it does and more definitively than it does (resolutions are a cop-out, but better than nothing).

I don't think the founders envisioned any sort of commitment of troops other than an outright war.**  The Barbary Pirate thing immediately tested that, but I don't think it was politically unpopular, just expedient.

**I haven't looked at the debates on this, but it's possible they recognized the problem and just punted to let someone else figure out it, or decided some play in the joints was desirable.  They did that with some regularity.

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I don't think that I would use the term "The Ultimate Solution" with the Turks.  Given their history of genocides, might get the wrong idea. 

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1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

I don't think that I would use the term "The Ultimate Solution" with the Turks.  Given their history of genocides, might get the wrong idea. 

You might not, but he has no problem because DOTUS likely has no idea of that history.

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Trump one day: “I didn’t give turkey the green light to attack.”
Trump the next day: “I let them fight, you gotta let em fight like two kids in a lot.”
He fucking lies to you and teabags you daily, and the fucking morons just fall in line, slurping up his ball sweat. What must it be like, to be utterly submissive bitches to such a pathetic man?

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Trump one day: “I didn’t give turkey the green light to attack.”
Trump the next day: “I let them fight, you gotta let em fight like two kids in a lot.”
He fucking lies to you and teabags you daily, and the fucking morons just fall in line, slurping up his ball sweat. What must it be like, to be utterly submissive bitches to such a pathetic man?

Judging by the Dallas Trump rally pics, I am pretty sure its like this...

3dpy5i.jpg

Edited by Goredho

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PKK letter to the American people and Donald Trump

 

https://anfenglishmobile.com/features/pkk-letter-to-the-american-people-and-president-trump-38561

 

“To the American people and President Donald J. Trump,

We refuse comparisons being made between our movement and the inhumane thugs of ISIS. Our response is as follows: There are more than 40 million Kurds living in the Middle East today. At the end of the First World War, outside powers divided them among four autocratic states: Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey, where our movement began. 

For years, the Kurdish people had asked these governments only for the basic democratic rights that you enjoy each day: the right to exist, to speak their own language, to practice their own culture, to participate in politics as free and equal citizens.

"PKK WAS FOUNDED TO RESIST THE TURKISH STATE VIOLENCE"

Each time, they were brutally subjugated: bombed with advanced weapons, torn from their homes in the middle of the night and disappeared, jailed and tortured, their villages flattened, and their very language and culture banned. Up until we founded the PKK in 1978 to resist the violence of the Turkish state against the Kurdish people, it had already massacred hundreds of thousands of Kurds in the Kurdish regions of Turkey. We don’t have to go too far back in time, in the 90s the Turkish state destroyed 4,000 Kurdish villages and extra-judicially killed 17,000 Kurds.

“OUR EFFORTS WERE IGNORED”

Turkish leaders believed, like so many tyrants throughout history, that they could crush the basic human desire for a free life with violence and terror. They branded us as terrorists and criminals and spent hundreds of millions of dollars to get other countries like the United States of America to do so too, even as their forces committed unspeakable atrocities in violation of all principles of international law. We signed the Geneva Conventions and asked for peace negotiations on various occasions since 1993, knowing that the war could end the second Kurdish rights were institutionalized. These efforts were ignored.

“PKK HAS NEVER TARGETED THE U.S. OR ANY COUNTRY”

The PKK has never targeted the U.S. or any other country. We have never shied away from the negotiating table to solve this conflict peacefully and politically. As a matter of fact, we have declared no less than eight ceasefires since 1993 to pave the way for negotiations. The PKK’s political project is founded on basic human rights and liberties, gender liberation, religious pluralism and ecological rights.

When ISIS began its campaign of terror across Syria and Iraq, we knew we had to respond. The group threatened not only the ideals we have fought so many years to defend, but the safety of tens of millions of people. The well-armed and well-funded states of the region and the world were slow to respond, weighing the cost of action as millions fell under extremist subjugation.

In August of 2014, we carried out a humanitarian campaign in Sinjar, Iraq, where ISIS was committing atrocities against the Yezidi community that the United Nations would subsequently recognize as a genocide. The Yezidis had been left defenseless by the world, facing an enemy who regional forces had so far been unable to stop. Our first military unit dispatched to the region was made up of just seven people. From those beginnings, we were able to open a humanitarian corridor to Northeast Syria, allowing 35,000 civilians besieged on Mount Sinjar to reach safety. We went on to join other forces in liberating the region from ISIS control.

“TURKEY DID NOTHING TO STOP ISIS EXTREMISTS”

As our movement and our people gave thousands of lives in this fight, the Turkish state that calls us ‘terrorists’ did nothing to stop the ISIS extremists that were terrorizing innocent civilians across the world. The Turkish state has attacked Northeast Syria with greater ferocity today than they ever did when ISIS plotted international attacks from territory just across their border. They have sent terrorist gangs affiliated with al-Qaeda to torture and murder the people who defeated ISIS. They see the simple articulation of Kurdish identity as a greater threat than the groups that targeted innocents in not only Sinjar and Kobani, but Paris, Manchester, and New York City.

Many Americans saw in May 2017 how the Turkish President Erdogan ordered his bodyguards to brutally attack peaceful Kurdish protestors in your capital city; imagine what they do in Kurdistan. We are not guilty of terrorism; we are victims of state terrorism. But we are guilty of defending our people. We believe that the American people will be able to judge for themselves who the dangerous terrorists of this world are.”

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Yes, there are probably millions of Americans in the top 20% of earners who would be financially ruined by a family member contracting a major illness such as cancer. 
Health care costs, debt based society, lack of real dollar wage growth below the top 5% all contribute. 


Another issue is that top 5% is bogus wealth. A majority of those earners in that bracket are paid that amount due to locale (SFO, NYC, etc). A huge portion of them are paycheck to paycheck due to cost of living. There’s really the top 0.5% and, other than a minority percentage of each bracket below that, everyone else is fucked if the machine stops turning.

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^does not fit on bumper sticker. Too many words for our leadership.

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15 minutes ago, Pasken said:

Do we know how many ISIS members were freed from the prison?

7.  Fill in your units.

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17 hours ago, Pasken said:

Do we know how many ISIS members were freed from the prison?

about three fiddy

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On 10/17/2019 at 10:43 AM, Chad Fuck said:

Turkish spokesperson on NPR this morning said they had received it, but, and I'm translating loosely here, "Zero fucks were given in Ankara."

 

We were punked by Turkey. This is where we are at now.

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12 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

We were punked by Turkey  errbody. This is where we are at now.

Fify as the one sentence that describes foreign "policy" in the Trump era.

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I think our adversaries are now in a competition to see which one can get away with the most from Trump.  

Turkey getting away with US approved genocide is a significant score.  

North Korea getting everything they’ve ever asked for while giving nothing in return was pretty baller. 

Dont get me started on the Saudis and Russians. 

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https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/21/pompeo-trump-is-fully-prepared-for-military-action-against-turkey.html?__source=twitter|main

Quote

“We prefer peace to war,” Pompeo told CNBC’s Wilfred Frost in a taped interview that aired on “Closing Bell” on Monday. “But in the event that kinetic action or military action is needed, you should know that President Trump is fully prepared to undertake that action.”

So this is the United State Secretary of State...threatening a NATO member with military action.  

Once again, I suspect zero fucks will be given in Ankara.  

"Winning" feels suspiciously like Turkey pushing our shit in.

 

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Guys who could have predicted that ignoring the actions of dictators and appeasing them would back fire? It is not like there was any precedent for this!

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Back they go. Or do they mean a different type of asset?
 

Well, Trump doesn’t actually HAVE any other assets, so....

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51 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Back they go. Or do they mean a different type of asset?

 

Were getting out of endless war, unless it’s to protect oil assets. Then we’re gonna be at war as long as we still need the oil, which presumably won’t be endless. 

We are no longer at war with Eurasia. 

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mpu


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