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Shooting at Austin protest tonight, 1 dead

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3 minutes ago, Longhorn said:

I think this is the question you mean to ask?  I feel pretty normal is saying that I wouldn’t walk down one of Austin’s busy streets because I might be hit by a car.  Feel free to call that psycho, but you may want to look in a mirror.

So your argument is that because the protestors are jaywalking, which makes them in the wrong first, and thus driving into a crowd is okay? 

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3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

So your argument is that because the protestors are jaywalking, which makes them in the wrong first, and thus driving into a crowd is okay? 

I’m pointing out that the protesters don’t have the right of way in the street. Some other poster was making that false claim. 

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1 minute ago, Longhorn said:

You mean organized marches, that have permits, road blocks, etc...? Or assholes who put everyone at risk and just walk down streets?

So I guess I can drive my car into all the Texas football game fans walking on streets before or after games? Because those crowds only walk down blocked off streets and have permits? They’re just assholes putting everyone at risk
 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

So I guess I can drive my car into all the Texas football game fans walking on streets before or after games? Because those crowds only walk down blocked off streets and have permits? They’re just assholes putting everyone at risk
 

 

Those streets are blocked off, have cops directing traffic, etc...  are you trying to say UT games havE no organized pedestrian/car traffic modifications?  The two events are terrible comparisons.

Edited by Longhorn

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So the guys buzzing down whatever street and at 16 second mark the light turns yellow, 9 seconds later Congress IIRC turns green and 5 seconds after that his car entered then picture... he had practically 15 seconds of warning, and a shit load of people walking on the street and he still ran a red and damn near hit someone before he made his turn.


Side note Why does it take so long for a light to turn green in Austin?

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Just now, Longhorn said:

Those streets are blocked off, have cops directing traffic, etc...  are you trying to say UT games havE no organized pedestrian/car traffic modifications?

Let’s see if I can simplify this down for you. Do you agree or do you not agree that crowds of people walk down streets at UT football games that are not blocked off? Have no police traffic modification? Do you agree or not agree that is possible?

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Not sure who shot first but waving a gun at someone could be seen as a threat and use of force necessary. All how the jury sees it 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

So the guys buzzing down whatever street and at 16 second mark the light turns yellow, 9 seconds later Congress IIRC turns green and 5 seconds after that his car entered then picture... he had practically 15 seconds of warning, and a shit load of people walking on the street and he still ran a red and damn near hit someone before he made his turn.


Side note Why does it take so long for a light to turn green in Austin?

The crosswalks turn green about 5 seconds before the traffic light in high pedestrian zones such as downtown.

Edited by Somnio

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4 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

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Then you haven’t watched the video. Or maybe you don’t understand what “blowing through a red light” means.  Fact is, he was at a complete stop for several seconds before making a right turn on red. 

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The first volley of shots in the video are clearly from an AK47 rifle. Unmistakable report from the first volley. The last three are from a pistol.

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You are still not allowed to turn right on red into pedestrians crossing the street. Fact

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Posted (edited)

Taking guns to protests is stupid.  Confrontations are going to happen in a charged environment and a gun means they can turn deadly in a second.  There’s going to end up being a full on firefight at one of these at some point.

Edited by kevwun

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5 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Let’s see if I can simplify this down for you. Do you agree or do you not agree that crowds of people walk down streets at UT football games that are not blocked off? Have no police traffic modification? Do you agree or not agree that is possible?

Driver races down Bevo Blvd, blows past a cop direct traffic on MLK and San Jac, or steams through a barricade then the driver is clearly at fault.

If driver hits a pedestrian walking randomly in a normal, un-modified street 10 blocks south of the stadium heading to his car, then the pedestrian has responsibility.

Why is this so hard for you? 

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3 minutes ago, Longhorn said:

Then you haven’t watched the video. Or maybe you don’t understand what “blowing through a red light” means.  Fact is, he was at a complete stop for several seconds before making a right turn on red. 

I've watched the video, he ran a red light and turned right into the crowd. Wtf are you watching? I mean, you're just wrong as can be. 

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6 minutes ago, Longhorn said:

Then you haven’t watched the video. Or maybe you don’t understand what “blowing through a red light” means.  Fact is, he was at a complete stop for several seconds before making a right turn on red. 

You’re just wrong about that.  There was a car stopped in the lane to the left of him, but at no point does that video show the car stationary.  He ran the light. 

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8 minutes ago, Longhorn said:

Then you haven’t watched the video. Or maybe you don’t understand what “blowing through a red light” means.  Fact is, he was at a complete stop for several seconds before making a right turn on red. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, CHEF DIESEL said:

The first volley of shots in the video are clearly from an AK47 rifle. Unmistakable report from the first volley. The last three are from a pistol.

Pretty sure you're going to be wrong about that. We have an entire crowd of people there yet none of the witnesses have reported him firing his weapon and all of the witnesses I've read said the driver fired at him point blank.

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3 minutes ago, Longhorn said:

Driver races down Bevo Blvd, blows past a cop direct traffic on MLK and San Jac, or steams through a barricade then the driver is clearly at fault.

If driver hits a pedestrian walking randomly in a normal, un-modified street 10 blocks south of the stadium heading to his car, then the pedestrian has responsibility.

Why is this so hard for you? 

It is hard for me because case law does not support your theory. 

 

Quote

Texas law requires you to exercise reasonable care when driving to avoid harming others. A person who fails to fulfill this responsibility may be found negligent and be held legally and financially responsible for the injuries and damage they caused as a result of that negligence


you can’t just hit a pedestrian who is walking in the street. Even if they are illegal waking in the street. You are still liable. Maybe if they “jump out” from between parked cars, but not if a reasonable person can take measure to avoid hitting the person. Like what was seen in the video. A reasonable person does not stop at a light see pedestrians illegal jaywalking in the street and think, yep, I have the right of way, I can drive through them. 

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3 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

You’re just wrong about that.  There was a car stopped in the lane to the left of him, but at no point does that video show the car stationary.  He ran the light. 

Yep.  I had to watch several times on iPhone screen to see that those are different headlights than the car to his left.  I stand corrected.

 

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7 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

I've watched the video, he ran a red light and turned right into the crowd. Wtf are you watching? I mean, you're just wrong as can be. 

It was hard to see on iphone.  I stand corrected. 

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3 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Pretty sure you're going to be wrong about that. We have an entire crowd of people there yet none of the witnesses have reported him firing his weapon and all of the witnesses I've read said the driver fired at him point blank.

A handgun and an AK sound identical so I’m sure we will never know. Also AK spent shells  recovered if the AK was fired. Maybe the witnesses are right or maybe they are wrong. Wait and see. 

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Don't walk around with an AK across your chest like a fucking GI Joe cosplay if you don't want to get involved in nonsense. It's tragic and I feel terrible for his family, but put me in the play stupid games win stupid prizes camp. I don't care which side you're on, strapping up with a rifle in public makes you a try hard nerd.

If it comes out that the driver was looking for trouble, then I hope they throw the book at him too.

I wake up, hungover like a fool, and find myself in 100% agreement with@BradinATX

What a country....

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7 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Pretty sure you're going to be wrong about that. We have an entire crowd of people there yet none of the witnesses have reported him firing his weapon and all of the witnesses I've read said the driver fired at him point blank.

First volley of shots on that video were from an AKM. 100% sure of that.

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Adding the optic was a poor decision. Your target isn’t going to be very far away in a protest confrontation. 

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1 hour ago, Xian said:

More from Reddit.  
Interview with victim earlier in the day
victim showing off his gun on social media earlier in the month.

Picture of victim earlier in the day

and finally what looks like the victim pointing the gun at the car (though hard to see details)

 

still can’t find anything on the driver...

3443DBCC-A280-4ECB-9614-1359A649A12A.jpeg

8551B9C5-4848-4EEE-8B95-65B8825D166B.jpeg

361D08A1-4AFA-464E-B710-5B34151E01F9.jpeg

I don’t know on that last pic. To me it looks like he’s pointing that rifle straight at the ground.

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5 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Adding the optic was a poor decision. Your target isn’t going to be very far away in a protest confrontation. 

An optic on a short-barrel AK is stupid to begin with.  

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4 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I don’t know on that last pic. To me it looks like he’s pointing that rifle straight at the ground.

Yeah, if he fired that thing 5 times at the ground you’d think someone else would have been hurt.  Who knows?  It certainly did sound like 2 different guns. 

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15 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

 

 

It looks like he might have been stopped farther back from the light but you can't really tell.  maybe there is another video.  It seems like there is an opening for the driver to turn right.  he stops but you can't tell if there were more protesters.  when he turned he certainly wasn't being careful.  stupid stuff all the way around

was this march permitted?  this protest looks a group of people randomly walking around.  maybe it was the end of a permitted protest? Either the city should say no cars in these blocks and set up barricades or they should make protesters get a permit and have police.  having people randomly walking around in the streets with cars(and guns) is a recipe for exactly what happened.

protesting after dark is also dumb.

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Gonna wait and let all the conflicting reports gel into something closer to the facts of what actually happened.

 

Some interesting early observations:

 

I’ve suggested several times in the past that someone carrying an AR etc at a low ready during a tense situation is going to get his ass shot, and the shooter will have a decent justification argument. Remember, 2nd Am fanboys, this also goes for your hyper-enthusiastic gun rights guys who carry a rifle all over to protest at state houses and whatnot. Carrying a weapon for the purposes of intimidation/show - and let’s not kid ourselves, that’s exactly what this guy was doing and a shitload of others have done - is a recipe for tragedy.

 

Who had the right of way is irrelevant. Knowledge and intent to cause serious bodily harm are the relevant questions, and it seems rather obvious that the driver saw a crowd of people and decided to drive into them on purpose. He almost certainly committed a crime there. Now, whether it was because he was drunk, was impatient and angry, or was politically motivated, or something else....who knows.

 

Surrounding a car and threatening the driver, when it is already stopped, is not a smart move. It creates additional risk of confrontation.

 

The photo of the victim at the scene doesn’t appear to show him with a raised weapon. I see a hand near the trigger guard, but his other arm is down. Of course, that’s just one screen grab. He could have raised it a second later.

 

Summary: what we KNOW is still pretty thin. Some of what we know is bad news, but without all the pieces, it’s impossible to reach a final conclusion.

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25 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Pretty sure you're going to be wrong about that. We have an entire crowd of people there yet none of the witnesses have reported him firing his weapon and all of the witnesses I've read said the driver fired at him point blank.

None of the fellow protestors who surrounded this man’s car, saw or heard their buddy who was seen pointing his rifle at the driver, fire his weapon ? Shocked I say!

Looks like this is an open and shut case of clear murder by the driver Lou! Those first 5 noises were just balloons popping at the kid friendly peaceful protest.

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3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

what we KNOW is still pretty thin. Some of what we know is bad news, but without all the pieces, it’s impossible to reach a final conclusion.

When you’re not freaking out, you show a very reasonable thought process. Good summary of the scant details and possible implications of the confrontation.

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53 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

So I guess I can drive my car into all the Texas football game fans walking on streets before or after games? Because those crowds only walk down blocked off streets and have permits? They’re just assholes putting everyone at risk
 

 

I have actually seen that happen after a game. A few years back walking down San Jac towards Dean Keeton. Some old fuck was honking and trying to quickly get through the sea of pedestrians. Finally he lurched the car a bit and rolled up some dude right into his hood.

I thought they were gonna drag that old man out and whoop his ass, and honestly he would have deserved it. There is no place for that. Have some patience. 

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7 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

It looks like he might have been stopped farther back from the light but you can't really tell.  maybe there is another video.  It seems like there is an opening for the driver to turn right.  he stops but you can't tell if there were more protesters.  when he turned he certainly wasn't being careful.  stupid stuff all the way around

was this march permitted?  this protest looks a group of people randomly walking around.  maybe it was the end of a permitted protest? Either the city should say no cars in these blocks and set up barricades or they should make protesters get a permit and have police.  having people randomly walking around in the streets with cars(and guns) is a recipe for exactly what happened.

protesting after dark is also dumb.

I'd pretty much agree all around. I have no idea if they're permitted or not but they have been pretty regular occurrences with an obvious hands-off police presence as evidenced by the cops showing up within seconds of the shooting. If not officially permitted, they're definitely tolerated/condoned for lack of a better word.

Public safety should be the priority and the cops' job should be to protect the protestors, the general public, and also property without infringing on anyone's First Amendment right to peacefully assemble.

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4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Gonna wait and let all the conflicting reports gel into something closer to the facts of what actually happened.

Some interesting realty observations:

I’ve suggested severe times that someone carrying an AR etc at a low ready during a tense situation is going to get his ass shot, and the shooter will have a decent justification argument. Remember, 2nd Am fanboys, this house for your hyper-enthusiastic gun rights guys who carry a rifle all over to protest at state houses and whatnot. Carrying a weapon for the purposes of intimidation/show - and let’s not kid ourselves, that’s exactly what this guy was doing and a shitload of others have done - is a recipe for tragedy.

Who had the right of way is irrelevant. Knowledge and intent to cause serious bodily harm are the relevant questions, and it seems rather obvious that the driver saw a crowd of people and decided to drive into them on purpose. He almost certainly committed a crime there. Now, whether it was because he was drunk, was impatient and angry, or was politically motivated, or something else....who knows.

Surrounding a car and threatening the driver, when it is already stopped, is not a smart move. It creates additional risk of confrontation.

The photo of the victim at the scene doesn’t appear to show him with a raised weapon. I see a hand near the trigger guard, but his other arm is down. Of course, that’s just one screen grab. He could have raised it a second later.

Summary: what we KNOW is still pretty thin. Some of what we know is bad news, but without all the pieces, it’s impossible to reach a final conclusion.

is there another video showing the angle when he turns the corner?  I agree with all your post but its hard to tell if the guy sees an opening to turn(there is a guy fairly close who appears to be walking straight) and then after turning sees more protesters(I assume) and stops. he does accelerate slightly through the turn and is not cafeful.   the city needs to get a hold of the protests and force permitting, times/places or they need to just block off streets in downtown for allowed protests all day/night or this will probably happen again. I agree driver could have been pissed, drunk, or looking for trouble.  I suppose we will find out.

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2 hours ago, bolverk said:

Gonna have to disagree with you there, boss. The car didn't have the light and didn't yield right-of-way to pedestrians. Plus, it looks like he pulled into the far right lane of Congress, which has been blocked off with orange traffic cones for a while now.

Now, granted it was a Saturday night, so the driver could've been drinking/disoriented (or impatient/frustrated) and may not have anything to do with opposition to the protests. If that's the case, then it could've simply been a tragic mistake by the driver that inflamed tensions, resulting in the first armed guy freaking out with the motorist responding in kind.

If I had to place a bet, that's my most likely scenario.

Lets not forget Dude that keeping wildlife, um... an amphibious rodent, for... um, ya know domestic... within the city... that ain't legal either.

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There’s roughly 6 seconds between the first round of shots and the second.  The first round sounds like a rifle, and the second like a pistol.  The very last shot sounds like it comes from a different gun but I could be hearing things.  I don’t know what rifle guy was shooting at, because if you can’t kill or injure someone at point blank range with a rifle then you shouldn’t be exercising your Second Amendment rights.  And if he wasn’t aiming at the driver, but instead firing in the air or ground to diffuse the situation, then you’re just a dumbass.

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7 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Lets not forget Dude that keeping wildlife, um... an amphibious rodent, for... um, ya know domestic... within the city... that ain't legal either.

What are you, a fucking Park Ranger now? 

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7 minutes ago, Assman said:

There’s roughly 6 seconds between the first round of shots and the second.  The first round sounds like a rifle, and the second like a pistol.  The very last shot sounds like it comes from a different gun but I could be hearing things.  I don’t know what rifle guy was shooting at, because if you can’t kill or injure someone at point blank range with a rifle then you shouldn’t be exercising your Second Amendment rights.  And if he wasn’t aiming at the driver, but instead firing in the air or ground to diffuse the situation, then you’re just a dumbass.

I heard the difference in the sound of the shots as well 

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24 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Knowledge and intent to cause serious bodily harm are the relevant questions, and it seems rather obvious that the driver saw a crowd of people and decided to drive into them on purpose.

I don't know if that is obvious. Depending on how bad he was driving (looking at his phone, drunk, whatever) he may of never seen the people if he is looking left as he turns and never looks where he is going (seen it many times), he starts far enough back without stopping to look both ways he may have never looked right (obviously still at fault). 

Still he committed some crime, but that doesn't = he saw the people and then decided to drive into them on purpose. 

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Video from other side of street, clearly shows ran red light into pedestrians 

 

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5 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said:

I heard the difference in the sound of the shots as well 

The perspective is also from two different locations so there's that factor to consider.

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1 hour ago, Somnio said:

Without permit, blocking roadways is illegal in Texas.

It's 2020 rules, dude, get with the program. Walk where you want.  When you want.  And what time you want.    Interstate highway, Congress Ave, doesn't matter.  

Cars need to get on the sidewalks, haven't you heard?

 

 

 

 

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According to a witness, the incident began when the driver on Fourth Street honked, turned right and sped down Congress, driving through the crowd. He appeared to hit an orange barrier in the road and came to a stop, said Michael Capochiano, who attended the protest.

“There were people around the car, yelling, and people sounding like they were frightened,” Capochiano said.

A protester with a rifle approached the car, and the driver pointed his gun outside the window, Capochiano said. The driver fired several shots, then sped away, he said.

The man with the rifle “dropped to the ground when he got shot,” Capochiano said.

https://www.statesman.com/news/20200725/man-shot-to-death-during-downtown-austin-protest-idrsquoed-by-mother 

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Blocking roadways is illegal. It still doesn’t give you permission to drive into pedestrians illegally blocking the roadway 

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1 hour ago, Longhorn said:

I’m pointing out that the protesters don’t have the right of way in the street. Some other poster was making that false claim. 

 

2 hours ago, Longhorn said:

This is just not true.  
 

When a pedestrian is crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, he or she must yield the right of way to all vehicles.

 

1 hour ago, Longhorn said:

He didn’t blow through a red. He was at a complete stop. 

 

1 hour ago, Longhorn said:

Then you haven’t watched the video. Or maybe you don’t understand what “blowing through a red light” means.  Fact is, he was at a complete stop for several seconds before making a right turn on red. 

It's always fun to watch someone so confident they are right, but be so wrong on multiple points. 

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Posted (edited)

News reports say suspect has been detained and is cooperating with police. That seems key to me.

Edited by used2b

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It's 2020 rules, dude, get with the program. Walk where you want.  When you want.  And what time you want.    Interstate highway, Congress Ave, doesn't matter.   Cars need to get on the sidewalks, haven't you heard?  

 

 

 

 

 

In this context, that doesnt matter, because this: 

 

Blocking roadways is illegal. It still doesn’t give you permission to drive into pedestrians illegally blocking the roadway 

Next UT game, when you’re on one of the streets open to vehicle traffic and a crowd of people is walking in the street, I encourage you run them down and kill them, because they are in the wrong, you are in the right, and therefore you will not face a murder charge. 

You think that’s how it would go down?

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