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Posted

Nobody likes Israel anymore, especially not Democrats. And that's with a heavy thumb on the scale. It's like a guy who gets strip sacked, even after having the benefit of DBs waiting two Mississippis before they can pursue him behind his offensive line of Pro Bowlers. Despite these clear political headwinds on Israel, the leadership is still pretending as if somehow the electorate doesn't really know what they want, as if there's still some grand public debate going on and if only politicians were saying more nice things about Israel, then maybe just maybe people will forget that Israel is committing a genocide and our tax dollars and UN spoiler votes have enabled it.

Mamdani's unequivocal pro-Palestine position helped him. And it will help any other politician, and that includes MTG.

Posted
13 hours ago, softlynow said:

It's Newsome way ahead of the pack at this point.

I hope he tells the party consultants to go fuck themselves when they tell him later down the road that it's time to tone it down and bring everyone together.  Harris-Walz were doing pretty good when they were calling out the GQP as being a bunch of weirdos, calling the dotard a fat ass, etc.  Then they went touchy feely vibes on various podcasts and gave up every bit of momentum they had after the convention and debate.  They went into full "prevent defense" mode at the start of the 4th quarter with a narrow lead and blew it.  Fuckers.

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Posted
20 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Even if they didn't have that, it wouldn't matter. They've got a multi-billion dollar propaganda apparatus fully devoted to shaping false public narratives about the Democratic party. Dems have to fight those narratives, not concede to them. 

see, e.g., the jeans wars.

Posted
2 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Mamdani's unequivocal pro-Palestine position helped him.

Of course it did, it's insane to even try to push back on this. I have posted over and over about how Biden's unforgivable handling of the genocide and Harris' unwillingness to break from that demonstrably cost her a significant voting bloc of previous Biden voters.

Democrats could immediately win back a lot of votes by swinging away from this psychotic pro-genocide platform they've been on.

Posted
23 hours ago, LCHorn said:

I don't find him particularly charismatic so I think Colorado governor is his ceiling, but I've listened to Jared Polis talk about this and he advocates steering everything back to household economics. 

They ask you about bathrooms and trans rights, you respond about filling potholes and making sure people can work all day and have enough money to pay their rent and be able to relax when the work day is over.  That's not throwing the trans community under the bus, it's refocusing attention away from the vulnerable and to the area that survey respondents say is the most neglected.  

This is me, not Polis, but I'd say "Gaza is a long way from here, it's a terrible situation and I can't fix it.  What I can do is work towards making sure you have enough money in your paycheck to take care of your family, protect access to the medical care you need and make sure we're keeping your family safe."  

You are correct, economic populism is the way.  82-88% (reports vary) of US citizens have a net worth less than a million dollars, a figure which is becoming worth less and less by the day under Trump 2.0.  The economics of that 82-88% should be the D platform, full stop.  Nothing else should matter to them until they quit getting their ass demolished by the combination of populist Trump and their own milquetoast politics-as-usual approach.

I've never seen an organization more in need of turnover at the top than the democratic party.  That needed to happen in 2015 so a new, charismatic leader could emerge to convey this new message.  Someone who can sit down with a blue collar worker, make them feel comfortable and hold a conversation with them without coming off as condescending.  Calling people deplorable is no way to win friends and influence them.  Oh, there isn't anyone in the bullpen that fits the bill?  That's just more evidence that the current D leadership is a fatally flawed joke with regards to political strategy in this new era of politics where the people outside the "pool of likely voters" are now likely voters.  Get rid of the inept and complicit at the top.  They are a large net negative.

And Democrats need to realize they aren't going to reach the people they need to reach to flip this script through traditional means.  An interview on 60 minutes doesn't mean shit compared to an interview on Seth Rogan's podcast.  They need to emerge from the traditional, safe venues where they are asked polite questions with decorum.  They need to enter the lion's den and show that they are A) not afraid of Trump/MAGA and B) not what they are portrayed as in the skewed conservative informational vacuum.  EN-FUCKING-GAGE.

Democrats have lost the faith of the working class everyman and need to earn it back, at the same time the opposition will be doing everything in their power to undermine any re-emergence of trust.  So what?  The only good solution was to never allow yourself to be maneuvered into this corner.  Yet here you are.  If the new Democratic party is worth a damn and not complicit, they will find a way to overcome that shit.

I fully expect them to do none of the above meaningfully, but would love to be happily surprised otherwise.  We'll see.

Posted

 

17 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Democrats could immediately win back a lot of votes by swinging away from this psychotic pro-genocide platform they've been on.

I don't disagree. But I'm dubious that Israel/Palestine is a particularly important issue to many people. 

Posted
7 minutes ago, Orale said:

 

I don't disagree. But I'm dubious that Israel/Palestine is a particularly important issue to many people. 

I mean, you're wrong. It's not a primary issue for a majority of voters, but it is/was a primary issue for a lot of previous Biden voters that chose to sit the 2024 election out. That is not my opinion, it's backed up by empirical data. If I wasn't on the road I could look it up for you but I have linked to the data before. It's a matter of record, not conjecture.

Sentiment has only swung further away from the pro-Israeli position since. Directly funding the second Holocaust is, in fact, a big deal to a significant number of people.

Posted
Nobody likes Israel anymore, especially not Democrats.

While Israel has absolutely done some horrible shit and need to be put in their place, this is a flashing red sign indicating that you need to expand your political bubble if you hope to be able to speak coherently about reality.

I believe that nobody in YOUR circle still supports Israel. But the belief that nobody anywhere does is indicative of the type of misread that can cost elections. (Again, not opining on what the party should do about Israel, merely that “EVERYONE ON BLUESKY AGREES!!” is a dangerous general election game to play.)
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Posted
1 minute ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I believe that nobody in YOUR circle still supports Israel.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/692948/u.s.-back-israel-military-action-gaza-new-low.aspx

gallupchart.png

Quote

Bottom Line

Americans’ support for Israel’s military operation in Gaza and their positive views of Netanyahu have both reached new lows, reflecting sharp declines in Democrats’ and independents’ support. At the same time, Republicans’ backing of Israel’s military action and its prime minister is holding firm, resulting in record partisan gaps on both. The increasingly skeptical and divided American public poses a challenge for Israeli leadership and U.S. policymakers who are seeking to navigate the conflict.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/support-for-israel-continues-to-deteriorate-especially-among-democrats-and-young-people/

Quote

An Economist/YouGov survey released on August 5, 2025, offers a vivid baseline for our study. A plurality of the electorate believes that Israel’s continued attacks on Gaza are unjustified, only 27% are supportive of Prime Minister Netanyahu, and 84% favor an immediate ceasefire.

Quote

Typically, opinions among older adults change slowly and incrementally. This study suggests such remains true only for older Republicans, but not older Democrats, who shifted the most of any age group. This trend indicates a broader change across the political left in sentiments towards Israel that bucks the generational narrative: It’s not solely young people who have become highly critical of the war in Gaza.

Quote

As the war drags on, Democrats of all ages have begun to move in tandem on this issue. It is among Republicans that we now see a widening generational divide.

 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:


While Israel has absolutely done some horrible shit and need to be put in their place, this is a flashing red sign indicating that you need to expand your political bubble if you hope to be able to speak coherently about reality.

I believe that nobody in YOUR circle still supports Israel. But the belief that nobody anywhere does is indicative of the type of misread that can cost elections. (Again, not opining on what the party should do about Israel, merely that “EVERYONE ON BLUESKY AGREES!!” is a dangerous general election game to play.)

He's kind of conflating support for Israel as a genocidal apartheid state and support for what Israel can be going forward which are not the same thing. Support for the status quo is basically limited to an ever dwindling number of mainstream liberal Democrats, while the voter base can't be fucked anymore and that is backed up by data.

I support what I think Israel can be, not what it is now, and I think that's where most progressives are and most Democrat voters at this point.

Posted
13 minutes ago, Orale said:

 

I don't disagree. But I'm dubious that Israel/Palestine is a particularly important issue to many people. 

Bear in mind this is one of @Brian Fantana’s main issues and he tends to overstate it’s importance. 

 

5 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

but it is/was a primary issue for a lot of previous Biden voters that chose to sit the 2024 election out. That is not my opinion, it's backed up by empirical data.

I’d wager that this cohort feels differently now…

Anyway, back to economics, Ezra Klein interviewed Natasha Sarin last week, founder of The Budget Lab at Yale.  This isn’t going to be surprising to anyone here, but her position is that the tariffs are really only starting to be seen in the inflation data and it’s only going to worse from here.  The US is already in a recession if you omit the AI investment, and the anti-immigration efforts are making basic things like fresh vegetables and meat more expensive.  
 

She, and I think I’ve heard this on a separate podcast, notes that tariffs are, in effect, a $2k tax on every family in America.  Rich, poor, Trump voter or otherwise, this is the math.  This is what you make your main message.  

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Posted
35 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:


While Israel has absolutely done some horrible shit and need to be put in their place, this is a flashing red sign indicating that you need to expand your political bubble if you hope to be able to speak coherently about reality.

I believe that nobody in YOUR circle still supports Israel. But the belief that nobody anywhere does is indicative of the type of misread that can cost elections. (Again, not opining on what the party should do about Israel, merely that “EVERYONE ON BLUESKY AGREES!!” is a dangerous general election game to play.)

Making any foreign policy issue a central plank of a campaign is a terrible and losing strategy. The only real foreign policy election in our lifetimes was 2004.

Support for addition arms and sanctions for Ukraine has never dipped below fifty percent nationwide and has always claimed even a substantive chunk of GOP voters but they lined up behind the guy who wouldn’t do it. Other messaging will win out. 
 

 

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Posted

Supporting Israel's genocide of Palestinians in Gaza is the equivalent of an athlete failing their physical examination. It means you cannot be counted on for anything, and as in professional sports, it voids the "contract" the team made to acquire you. You are so defective that the only rational choice is to replace you with a non-defective candidate.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Making any foreign policy issue a central plank of a campaign is a terrible and losing strategy. The only real foreign policy election in our lifetimes was 2004.

Support for addition arms and sanctions for Ukraine has never dipped below fifty percent nationwide and has always claimed even a substantive chunk of GOP voters but they lined up behind the guy who wouldn’t do it. Other messaging will win out. 
 

 

Making your campaign for president of this country about 2 other countries seems like a really fucking stupid strategy and would show the people here that your priorities are not them. Just because you don't speak out on it or use it in your campaign does not mean you support genocide, this is shit thinking by many democrats, especially in these threads...see above.

Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Making your campaign for president of this country about 2 other countries seems like a really fucking stupid strategy and would show the people here that your priorities are not them. Just because you don't speak out on it or use it in your campaign does not mean you support genocide, this is shit thinking by many democrats, especially in these threads...see above.

It's about more than that, it's not just "2 other countries" which is a fucking hilarious way to put it considering there is only one. It's about billions and billions of our tax dollars and weapons being used to perpetrate a literal second fucking Holocaust while the country we're pouring money and weapons into to allow them to do that enjoys freedoms we don't have in America, like free health care and education, literally paid for by our willingness to fund their wars and war crimes. 

It is about much, much more than just a genocide, everything about how we handle Israel affects our daily lives whether people understand or want to admit that.

It's fucking important that people understand that, and it's important that the Democrat party stops supporting it with their full chests if they want to win going forward.

Keep your head in the sand if you want, I guess, but maybe educate yourself just a little bit if you're going to spout off bullshit like that.

If the Democrat Party can't be trusted on this issue, what makes you think you can trust them to preserve our see democracy? Use your fucking brain.

Edited by Brian Fantana
Posted

a few posters: democrats need to have a different position regarding netanyahu's israel

bo&w: why are you making your campaign about israel and ukraine?

Posted
1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's about more than that, it's not just "2 other countries" which is a fucking hilarious way to put it considering there is only one. It's about billions and billions of our tax dollars and weapons being used to perpetrate a literal second fucking Holocaust while the country we're pouring money and weapons into to allow them to do that enjoys freedoms we don't have in America, like free health care and education, literally paid for by our willingness to fund their wars and war crimes. 

It is about much, much more than just a genocide, everything about how we handle Israel affects our daily lives whether people understand or want to admit that.

It's fucking important that people understand that, and it's important that the Democrat party stops supporting it with their full chests if they want to win going forward.

Keep your head in the sand if you want, I guess, but maybe educate yourself just a little bit if you're going to spout off bullshit like that.

As I said, the average American doesn't give two shits about that. It's a stupid fucking thing to run your election on or eliminate an candidate on, especially if one can be wildly popular. The average American cares about what you're going to do for them.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

a few posters: democrats need to have a different position regarding netanyahu's israel

bo&w: why are you making your campaign about israel and ukraine?

What's going on there is a travesty and we will look into it but lets focus on the billionaires here and how they're stealing from you making it where you can't put food on your table while they continue to rake in millions. Lets fight against them to get your grocery prices down, make vehicles more affordable, and get these interest rates down! 

 

Or talk about reinstating all the changes to medicaid, say if you get all 3 changes you'll put in universal healthcare for all, ya know actual shit that would benefit people in the US. Speaking of, if democrats do get all 3 again and they don't push universal healthcare then that is failure.

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
21 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Making any foreign policy issue a central plank of a campaign is a terrible and losing strategy. The only real foreign policy election in our lifetimes was 2004.

Sorry but this is a bullshit lie and the only reason you're trying to push this line is because you're a fucking Zionist that enjoys and supports what Israel is doing with your full chest. Don't make me pull up the receipts when I'm done traveling, you know I've got them. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Sorry but this is a bullshit lie and the only reason you're trying to push this line is because you're a fucking Zionist that enjoys and supports what Israel is doing with your full chest. Don't make me pull up the receipts when I'm done traveling, you know I've got them. 

Israel/Gaza surely tanked Trump's campaign....

Posted
5 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

As I said, the average American doesn't give two shits about that. It's a stupid fucking thing to run your election on or eliminate an candidate on, especially if one can be wildly popular. The average American cares about what you're going to do for them.

There have been numerous polls and surveys that tell a different story. You're conflating your own apathy with a general apathy you're making up in your head. 

I am literally trying to tell you that you can directly tie in American quality of life (or lack thereof) with our continued unconditional support for Israel's genocide. 

Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

There have been numerous polls and surveys that tell a different story. You're conflating your own apathy with a general apathy you're making up in your head. 

I am literally trying to tell you that you can directly tie in American quality of life (or lack thereof) with our continued unconditional support for Israel's genocide. 

And I'm telling you small polls like that don't paint a national picture of the average american. in fact polling the past 10ish year has been truly fucking awful 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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Posted
1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Israel/Gaza surely tanked Trump's campaign....

There is data that supports something along the line of 30% of previous Biden voters that chose to sit the 2024 election out did so because of Biden's handling of Israel/Palestine and Harris' refusal to break from that. You think that didn't impact the election? 

And yeah no shit it didn't impact Trump, his base supports this, what kind of dumbass statement is that?

Posted
3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

And I'm telling you small polls like that don't paint a national picture of the average american. in fact polling the past 10ish year has been truly fucking awful 

Ok show me the data that backs up your statement. I'll wait. I've got all day, I'm on a train. 

Posted
Just now, Brian Fantana said:

Oh so you're just a fucking idiot. Got it.

You thinking average americans as a whole give two shits about two countries across the world with a vote for president is the most idiotic take here. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You thinking average americans as a whole give two shits about two countries across the world with a vote for president is the most idiotic take here. 

We're talking about likely Democratic voters, shit for brains, not the average American voter as a whole. You're out of your depth, this is the last time I will respond to you. Go find something to clean out the cobwebs between your ears.

Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

We're talking about likely Democratic voters, shit for brains, not the average American voter as a whole. You're out of your depth, this is the last time I will respond to you. Go find something to clean out the cobwebs between your ears.

And that's the problem, the dumbass democratic party will do everything they can to stop a wildly popular candidate if they don't align on that. Basing your party nominee off foreign policy is fucking retarded and a reason the party is struggling with voters and even losing voters. If someone doesn't fall in line the party literally saydshit like "you support fascism or genocide." good way to alienate yourself from the average american while the other side, even though their policy hurts the people they get to vote for them, is at least welcoming and such they while making you feel like you belong just to get votes. Because in the end winning is all that matter in this political climate. Can't make changes or implement policy without having 3 branches anymore. But go ahead and keep fucking that far far left shit.

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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