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Texas Recruiting Notes 2021


Reese Bennett

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17 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

This is absurd. Buildings get renamed all the time with new donations. Additionally, let the family sue. That will play out really well in the media. “We’re suing to keep our racist forefather’s name on the building.” Easiest bluff ever to call. 
 

Give the family a chance to pick a new name if they squawk. 

Also. I was quoting a post about negotiations. Its suggested as a negotiating ploy. Where you make " absurd" claims. Seems pretty simple. I dont know much about endowments to universities or the money it takes to have a name on a building there. But anybody can figure out how to negotiate. or maybe not. 

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15 minutes ago, NorLa Horns said:

Also. I was quoting a post about negotiations. Its suggested as a negotiating ploy. Where you make " absurd" claims. Seems pretty simple. I dont know much about endowments to universities or the money it takes to have a name on a building there. But anybody can figure out how to negotiate. or maybe not. 

Thing is..what is so absurd about the changes being asked?  Other than the Eyes which I think can be worked out through talks, everything else can be done.  Had no idea about Moore til yesterday..fuck that guy.

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7 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

Thing is..what is so absurd about the changes being asked?  Other than the Eyes which I think can be worked out through talks, everything else can be done.  Had no idea about Moore til yesterday..fuck that guy.

The donations to BLM/other similar organizations is absurd, and has no chance at being done, imo 

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1 minute ago, Fud said:

The donations to BLM/other similar organizations is absurd, and has no chance at being done, imo 

I bet the school will instead create an organization that brings Black and Hispanic Awareness throughout the State.  Make up a panel of alumni and current students who come to agreements on how to help people. They can decide where the money donated goes to.  Is that really to hard to figure out?

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Just now, Thiefery said:

I bet the school will instead create an organization that brings Black and Hispanic Awareness throughout the State.  Make up a panel of alumni and current students who come to agreements on how to help people. They can decide where the money donated goes to.  Is that really to hard to figure out?

The quote was "The UT Athletics Department to donate 0.5% of their annual earnings to black organizations and the BLM movement"

If they want that to happen, they'll have to make hay in the state legislature. Otherwise, the request is a non-starter. It's a much more difficult issue than The Eyes, imo. 

As I posted here, and I think someone else did prior, if Texas wants to give ground on this issue, endowing a scholarship on behalf of Texas athletics is the cleanest move, imo 

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16 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

Thing is..what is so absurd about the changes being asked?  Other than the Eyes which I think can be worked out through talks, everything else can be done.  Had no idea about Moore til yesterday..fuck that guy.

Other than the BLM thing , not a thing. All doable. Even needful one could say

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12 minutes ago, Fud said:

The donations to BLM/other similar organizations is absurd, and has no chance at being done, imo 

1. From its inception, BLM is a political organization explicitly, by definition, because it's trying to influence policy positions of politicians.

2. Direct donations by a govt entity are almost certainly prohibited.

3. The demand is likely shorthand to mean "donation towards the policy objectives of BLM," which I think is an easy compromise.

You guys are doing a great job educating each other in a relatively civil manner. Kudos.

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1 hour ago, deech said:

Take the money they want for BLM and give it to either minority scholarships (which I am sure the athletic department likely already does) or training for UTPD officers or whatever.

Just because they demand it does not mean they aren't willing to accept a completely reasonable compromise on it.  

Of course it gives money to minority scholarships. The University also has a minority outreach program run by a long-time Austin inner-city principal. He is a good guy and does a good job and has received funds for minorities on the field at halftime of certain games.

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1 minute ago, quigley said:

1. From its inception, BLM is a political organization explicitly, by definition, because it's trying to influence policy positions of politicians.

2. Direct donations by a govt entity are almost certainly prohibited.

3. The demand is likely shorthand to mean "donation towards the policy objectives of BLM," which I think is an easy compromise.

You guys are doing a great job educating each other in a relatively civil manner. Kudos.

yeah can't wait to focus back on recruiting.. but the football board..YIKES.

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Seeing as this is the recruiting board, how do we see this effecting recruiting? Pretty good I think if we can keep the donors and alumni out of it and let CDC and the university officials handle it. Assuming the players are open to discussion, and minor, reasonable compromise on some of the issues that have been pointed out like political donations, which I think is a safe assumption, it should be pretty positive for recruiting. 

I want to see some Twitter promotion of what I assume will be our schools reasonable response compared side by side that smarmy letter the Aggy president sent the student 2 years ago. 

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3 minutes ago, Viper said:

Seeing as this is the recruiting board, how do we see this effecting recruiting? Pretty good I think if we can keep the donors and alumni out of it and let CDC and the university officials handle it. Assuming the players are open to discussion, and minor, reasonable compromise on some of the issues that have been pointed out like political donations, which I think is a safe assumption, it should be pretty positive for recruiting. 

I want to see some Twitter promotion of what I assume will be our schools reasonable response compared side by side that smarmy letter the Aggy president sent the student 2 years ago. 

Imo this is feast or famine. We’re either going to be lauded and come out looking wonderful to recruits or were going to be poison. There is no in between. And then we have to hope if it’s the former that many vocal alumni don’t shit the bed anyway. 
 

whatever the decisions made, the players have to come out resoundingly favorably about what the university’s actions. Otherwise we’re poison. But that’s just my opinion. Dabo just went from in trouble to off the radar become clemson changed their honors school’s name. 

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10 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Imo this is feast or famine. We’re either going to be lauded and come out looking wonderful to recruits or were going to be poison. There is no in between. And then we have to hope if it’s the former that many vocal alumni don’t shit the bed anyway. 
 

whatever the decisions made, the players have to come out resoundingly favorably about what the university’s actions. Otherwise we’re poison. But that’s just my opinion. Dabo just went from in trouble to off the radar become clemson changed their honors school’s name. 

Alternatively, you also want to avoid being Iowa where it seems like you're just trying to wait this out. 

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16 hours ago, trythisathome said:

Not gonna get too far into this since this thread really isn't the place for it, but I will say that defending monuments to racists under the guise of "preserving history" is just about the most bullshit argument you can make. 

 

If you're so worried about history being lost, maybe we should increase education funding instead of honoring people who dedicated their lives to preserving one of the worst practices the human race has ever engaged in. 

And tell me where on campus these statues are because that's how much they are important to the campus as a whole. I could walk the entire fucking campus today and not know where one these statues are. Instead of tearing shit down, why not build a Barbara Jordan statue instead. There are a slew of minority alums that should be honored by the university.

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11 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

And tell me where on campus these statues are because that's how much they are important to the campus as a whole. I could walk the entire fucking campus today and not know where one these statues are..

 

So if we hide them, it's ok for them to stay? that's what you're saying? We can leave honorifics to the Confederacy, and hence slavery, if they are hidden? Add a Barbara Jordan (there is one already) so that "they get theirs to" is that your angle? Is this a "heritage not hate" angle? If they are so unimportant why are you in a fucking tizzy about then being torn down and replaced by statues of and by PoC? 

 

 

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Seeing as this is the recruiting board, how do we see this effecting recruiting? Pretty good I think if we can keep the donors and alumni out of it and let CDC and the university officials handle it. Assuming the players are open to discussion, and minor, reasonable compromise on some of the issues that have been pointed out like political donations, which I think is a safe assumption, it should be pretty positive for recruiting. 

I want to see some Twitter promotion of what I assume will be our schools reasonable response compared side by side that smarmy letter the Aggy president sent the student 2 years ago. 

First, let me say that I broadly agree with the players here. That being said, I don’t see much recruiting upside on this, and there’s obviously tremendous downside if we fuck it up and things get publicly acrimonious. Players, recruits, and their families will be expecting us to do the right thing (rightly so), so I don’t expect a big bonus other than players publicly expressing some satisfaction to recruits.

 

One thing that’s a big question is the letter says they won’t participate in recruiting until the university makes an “official commitment”. What does that mean? This kind of shit takes time, there’s going to be lots of stakeholders involved. Puts Tom in a tough position because he may need to try to convince them to keep helping with recruits, etc, while a lengthy process plays out.

 

If we handle this smoothly, I could see us gaining by others’ loss. I expect a difficult conversation like this is going to eventually happen pretty much everywhere. Not going to name names, but will some of our competitors in the region be able to handle it graciously?

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48 minutes ago, Viper said:

Seeing as this is the recruiting board, how do we see this effecting recruiting? Pretty good I think if we can keep the donors and alumni out of it and let CDC and the university officials handle it. Assuming the players are open to discussion, and minor, reasonable compromise on some of the issues that have been pointed out like political donations, which I think is a safe assumption, it should be pretty positive for recruiting. 

I want to see some Twitter promotion of what I assume will be our schools reasonable response compared side by side that smarmy letter the Aggy president sent the student 2 years ago. 

If we earnestly give the players most of what they want and are at the forefront of this movement in a positive (in the players perspective) manner, it could be massive for recruiting. It could also go in the opposite direction. 

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I don’t think their list is that bad. My only issue is with BLM.  There are many great organizations that aren’t political and designed to help those in the black community. BLM doesn’t fit that narrative. If they are so interested in helping then why isn’t BLM in Chicago every weekend to quell the Black on Black violence?  Why didn’t they help out the Black community in Houston during Hurricane Harvey?  Simple, they don’t care About that type of black life, they only care about the 8-10 that have been wrongfully killed by police officers. They are a political group intent on dividing Americans instead of uniting. 

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30 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

And tell me where on campus these statues are because that's how much they are important to the campus as a whole. I could walk the entire fucking campus today and not know where one these statues are. Instead of tearing shit down, why not build a Barbara Jordan statue instead. There are a slew of minority alums that should be honored by the university.

It's good you don't look at icons like these to revere.

However, "the campus as a whole" includes minorities for whom these statues have deep negative meaning. Since these statues don't have meaning to you, but do have negative mean for others, I guess you won't mind when they're gone.

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24 minutes ago, quigley said:

It's good you don't look at icons like these to revere.

However, "the campus as a whole" includes minorities for whom these statues have deep negative meaning. Since these statues don't have meaning to you, but do have negative mean for others, I guess you won't mind when they're gone.

The point is you can go in circles here. 

The city of Austin, the 40 acres & likely, specifically you have a deep negative meaning to every American Indian...are you ok with an American Indian student demanding/suggesting changes to it all? Does that sound rational or extreme?

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6 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

Spitballing here, but it might be kind of cool if like baseball, players have their own songs that they play snippets of over the loud speaker.  Players would really enjoy it and we could remember the years and players by the songs played.  Would like a central university song though. 

WTF?

 

5 hours ago, Mdhorn said:
  • An outreach program from inner cities (Austin, Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio)

How is Texas not doing this already?  It's too valuable to academics and sports.  

We do, they do great work but I'm guessing what they are asking for is for the creation of a BLM/AA specific one funded by the University. Tough to say without details from the group asking.

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17 minutes ago, Goodman said:

The point is you can go in circles here. 

The city of Austin, the 40 acres & likely, specifically you have a deep negative meaning to every American Indian...are you ok with an American Indian student demanding/suggesting changes to it all? Does that sound rational or extreme?

Nah, it isn't a circular problem. HtownHorn (and presumably his ilk) doesn't care about the statues. Others do care the icons to a treasonous group and want them gone. So take them down.

I grew up in Oklahoma in a community with a substantial Native American (yes I'm judging your use of language) population. My family still lives there and works directly to serve this community. If there were monuments to Columbus there, I'd help take them down. That's the direct analogy. 

Your analogy breaks down because UT can help historically disadvantaged groups. UT can and should help address the old and fresh scars of racism, just like the Indian Health Service helps address those issues now. How do UT and the Indian Health Service do more now is the question at hand.

Your football team is teaching you. Learn.

Edited by quigley
proof reding isn't my strength
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52 minutes ago, quigley said:

It's good you don't look at icons like these to revere.

However, "the campus as a whole" includes minorities for whom these statues have deep negative meaning. Since these statues don't have meaning to you, but do have negative mean for others, I guess you won't mind when they're gone.

I personally disagree with the thought of erasing history. Jews as a whole have the thought process of "Never Forget". This is more in-line with my thoughts. For statues, write the whole story include the bad with the good and let people decide. In fact, the most obvious answer to the demands is to build a Memorial and a Museum. Explain the history of the Hoggs, Columbus, Littlefield, The Eyes, Amerigo, Washington, Jefferson, etc.

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20 minutes ago, quigley said:

Nah, it isn't a circular problem. HtownHorn (and presumably his ilk) doesn't care about the statues. Others do care the icons to a treasonous group and want them gone. So take them down.

I grew up in Oklahoma in a community with a substantial Native American (yes I'm judging your use of language) population. My family still lives there and works directly to serve this community. If there were monuments to Columbus there, I'd help take them down. That's the direct analogy. 

Your analogy breaks down because UT can help historically disadvantaged groups. UT can and should help address the old and fresh scars of racism, just like the Indian Health Service helps address those issues now. How do UT and the Indian Health Service do more now is the question at hand.

Your football team is teaching you. Learn.

Native American is racist but you're referencing Oklahoma so it makes sense. It is now American Indian, https://www.indian-affairs.org/who-we-are.html

Point was and is that the city of Austin and the University and most of us are a negative meaning to them. They would prefer if we were not here and are entitled to demands that meet the attention of what is currently afforded to this current issue. You can talk about a statue, our population and colonization is theirs. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I personally disagree with the thought of erasing history. Jews as a whole have the thought process of "Never Forget". This is more in-line with my thoughts. For statues, write the whole story include the bad with the good and let people decide. In fact, the most obvious answer to the demands is to build a Memorial and a Museum. Explain the history of the Hoggs, Columbus, Littlefield, The Eyes, Amerigo, Washington, Jefferson, etc.

You’re ignoring the whole fact that statues in public places are meant to honor people. Taking down a statute isn’t whitewashing history; it’s a decision not to honor that person in a public place. Your second point is more in line. Those people can be remembered by being discussed in museums and history books, but writing the good and bad on the statue means they’re still in a public place of honor, so it’s not really a solution. 

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Erasing history isn't being contemplated, nor even possible.  Take the statues down, add to the history curriculum where the stories of  the Hoggs, Columbus, Littlefield, The Eyes, Amerigo, Washington, Jefferson, etc. are studied and discussed.  I've yet to make it to Germany, but I seriously doubt there are statues of members of the Nazi party standing anywhere.

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1 hour ago, Harvdog said:

I don’t think their list is that bad. My only issue is with BLM.  There are many great organizations that aren’t political and designed to help those in the black community. BLM doesn’t fit that narrative. If they are so interested in helping then why isn’t BLM in Chicago every weekend to quell the Black on Black violence?  Why didn’t they help out the Black community in Houston during Hurricane Harvey?  Simple, they don’t care About that type of black life, they only care about the 8-10 that have been wrongfully killed by police officers. They are a political group intent on dividing Americans instead of uniting. 

Christ, this is about as good as your Tunmise insight. I think the football board is probably more your speed. 

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16 minutes ago, Goodman said:

Native American is racist but you're referencing Oklahoma so it makes sense. It is now American Indian, https://www.indian-affairs.org/who-we-are.html

Point was and is that the city of Austin and the University and most of us are a negative meaning to them. They would prefer if we were not here and are entitled to demands that meet the attention of what is currently afforded to this current issue. You can talk about a statue, our population and colonization is theirs. 

 

Organizations kept American Indian in their names because they felt the rest of America wouldn't recognize them if they made changes. Yeah, that's the reason. They felt we were too stupid to keep up based on the "black or African American" debate. While Native Americans certainly resent colonization, they also want to succeed in American society. They, like BLM, aren't calling for a return to the 1600s. They're calling for equality here and now.

 

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Burt is more in-line with my train of thought. I don't have any love for the statues except Littlefield fountain. However, I would much prefer the statues in a museum than being destroyed. And while Nazi memorabilia in Germany is rare, this isn't what I was discussing. Never forget falls more inline with Auschwitz I and II. Auschwitz I kind of whitewashes history. Glass walls encase suitcases, glasses, and lamps made with human skin and the movies talk about the Polish freedom fighters. Meanwhile, Poles as a whole were probably more racist against Jews than even the Germans. Meanwhile, down the road, was Auschwitz II-birkenau. It is much less visited. The guard towers stand hovering over the endless fields filled with subhuman living structures, the railroad ties still lead into the camp, and the lake is still black with human ashes. There was talk about tearing down Auschwitz II but it stood to me as more of a reminder of what it means to never forget. Don't tear it down. Let people wallow in its shame and inhumanity.

 

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14 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Lol yea further support that that guy never actually attended UT. That has to be the most walked past statue on campus.

 

 I haven't seen the Barbara Jordan statue either, and I graduated from UT.  Statue's only 11 years old.... LOL

"The Barbara Jordan Statue Unveiling was April 24, 2009 from noon to 1 p.m. at the statue site located at 24th and Whitis Streets."

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8 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Burt is more in-line with my train of thought. I don't have any love for the statues except Littlefield fountain. However, I would much prefer the statues in a museum than being destroyed. And while Nazi memorabilia in Germany is rare, this isn't what I was discussing. Never forget falls more inline with Auschwitz I and II. Auschwitz I kind of whitewashes history. Glass walls encase suitcases, glasses, and lamps made with human skin and the movies talk about the Polish freedom fighters. Meanwhile, Poles as a whole were probably more racist against Jews than even the Germans. Meanwhile, down the road, was Auschwitz II-birkenau. It is much less visited. The guard towers stand hovering over the endless fields filled with subhuman living structures, the railroad ties still lead into the camp, and the lake is still black with human ashes. There was talk about tearing down Auschwitz II but it stood to me as more of a reminder of what it means to never forget. Don't tear it down. Let people wallow in its shame and inhumanity.

 

I've gone to Dachau (Nazi concentration camp).

Hell of an education for me...

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17 minutes ago, quigley said:

Organizations kept American Indian in their names because they felt the rest of America wouldn't recognize them if they made changes. Yeah, that's the reason. They felt we were too stupid to keep up based on the "black or African American" debate. While Native Americans certainly resent colonization, they also want to succeed in American society. They, like BLM, aren't calling for a return to the 1600s. They're calling for equality here and now.

 

So, was this your apology attempt for "(yes I'm judging your use of language)" or just ignoring being wrong & sharing history I already knew and no one asked for?

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2 minutes ago, Goodman said:

So, was this your apology attempt for "(yes I'm judging your use of language)" or just ignoring being wrong & sharing history I already knew and no one asked for?

So if you know the history, you can't reasonably prefer "American Indian," and the people I know prefer Native American. They explain it simply: they aren't Indians.

 

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19 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

I've gone to Dachau (Nazi concentration camp).

Hell of an education for me...

For me as well. After I told my mom about all the weird/interesting experiences, she told me I had 4 or 5 relatives killed there. Later, she showed me a few pictures of the relatives taken by my grandmother who visited Germany before the war.

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3 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Imo this is feast or famine. We’re either going to be lauded and come out looking wonderful to recruits or were going to be poison. There is no in between. And then we have to hope if it’s the former that many vocal alumni don’t shit the bed anyway.

UCLA's 1998 season is an example of what can happen if things go wrong. Heading into the final game of the season against Miami with an undefeated record, a group of players decided to wear black armbands during the game to protest Proposition 209, which barred schools from basing enrollment standards on sex or ethnicity. The administration tried to talk them out of it, the players split into factions during practice, and it culminated in a loss to Miami that knocked them out of NC title contention followed by a loss to Wisky in the Rose Bowl. And the football program never recovered.

https://www.ocregister.com/2008/12/04/1998-uclas-sweet-season-that-went-sour/

We've already seen that the players are determined to effect real change, even willing to give up their careers (Eagles, maybe Cook as well). If they're unsatisfied with UT's response recruiting will crater, then the season with it, and it'll be a black mark on the program.

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