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Ukraine War


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On 7/1/2022 at 2:12 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

When it comes to foreign policy, Biden’s hit a home run. When it comes to inflation and gas prices and supply chain issues, those are global problems so I don’t know how any of those can be blamed on him. Of course the Republicans are going to blame him for them just out of partisan self-interest. Here’s something bad, blame a Democrat.

The Ukrainians might build him a statue. They would’ve been fucked of Trump were re-elected. 

Global problems? Biden literally blamed it all on "Russia, Russia, Russia". Are they a crumbling paper tiger that can't even take on Ukraine or this ominipotent superpower that not only controls our elections but global energy prices, inflation, & supply chains? You can't have it both ways.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

any russians living abroad might be best to stay where they are

 

This has been the case for every Russian who is is conscription age. When I was at UT, one of my buddies was an international student from St. Petersburg, and for about 18 months he couldn't go home to Russia to visit his family for fear of them taking his passport and compelling him to military service. And that was back in 2013!

I can't imagine any good reason to go to Russia now. It's a damn steel trap waiting to keep you stuck inside, just ask Ms. Griner

Edited by Captainant
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14 minutes ago, Caponata said:

Global problems? Biden literally blamed it all on "Russia, Russia, Russia". Are they a crumbling paper tiger that can't even take on Ukraine or this ominipotent superpower that not only controls our elections but global energy prices, inflation, & supply chains? You can't have it both ways.

Stfu, Boris. 

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I lurk here some, and post here never.  Or almost never.  My politics are the exact opposite of our President, and I've been surprised...impressed, by how well he's done with Ukraine.  Sounded the alarm early, stuck with it, and rallied the Allies.  Let's just hope he doesn't cock it up.

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9 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Stfu, Boris. 

Funny how you call me Boris when you're the one who thinks Putin controls everything from our elections to fuel prices to inflation to social media, etc. You truly see him as a the leader of the free world. 🤡

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Parliament said:

I lurk here some, and post here never.  Or almost never.  My politics are the exact opposite of our President, and I've been surprised...impressed, by how well he's done 

 

Edited by Caponata
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38 minutes ago, Captainant said:

This has been the case for every Russian who is is conscription age. When I was at UT, one of my buddies was an international student from St. Petersburg, and for about 18 months he couldn't go home to Russia to visit his family for fear of them taking his passport and compelling him to military service. And that was back in 2013!

I can't imagine any good reason to go to Russia now. It's a damn steel trap waiting to keep you stuck inside, just ask Ms. Griner

Didn't Ukraine ban all men 18-60 from leaving the country?

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1 minute ago, Caponata said:

Didn't Ukraine ban all men 18-60 from leaving the country?

They're fighting for their national and ethnic survival in the face of a war of aggression. Not equivalent to baseline forced military service to be thrown INTO a war of aggression. 

 

Btw, your off-topic and bitch ass retribution neg is noted, snowflake ❄️❄️

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35 minutes ago, Caponata said:

Funny how you call me Boris when you're the one who thinks Putin controls everything from our elections to fuel prices to inflation to social media, etc. You truly see him as a the leader of the free world. 🤡

Wtf are you talking about, fuckhead? None of that is true. Quote me, dumbass, you lying piece of shit. Try to defend that assertion by quoting anything I’ve ever said. Go ahead. We’re waiting.

Jesus, you’re a shitty troll, Boris.

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20 minutes ago, Caponata said:

Didn't Ukraine ban all men 18-60 from leaving the country?

They're being invaded, Fozzz. They're often faced with less than perfect choices. What would you do if you were President of Ukraine about this Russian invasion? If you were President of the USA, what would you differently? If you have a solution, the whole motherfucking world would love to hear it, Fozzz.

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Global problems? Biden literally blamed it all on "Russia, Russia, Russia". Are they a crumbling paper tiger that can't even take on Ukraine or this ominipotent superpower that not only controls our elections but global energy prices, inflation, & supply chains? You can't have it both ways.

Except…..you literally can have it both ways, because that’s exactly the case.
Militarily, Russia is shit for its size. It has nukes, and it has numbers. The nukes means that its foes can’t just take their gloves off in a fight. It’s numbers mean that in spite of shitty equipment, shitty organization and leadership, and low motivation, it can still inflict real damage. A million teenagers with sharpened sticks can still inflict real damage. But as far as being a competitor with real powers, militarily…it’s shit.
As for being really, really good at espionage, sowing discord, and having an outsize influence in two fundamental economic sectors (food and energy)….that’s also exactly the case. It is the largest geographic country in the world, covering more arable land and more petroleum reserves than anyone else, so, yeah…Russia has real influence over the global economy. It’s just geography. As for Russian espionage, disinformation efforts, and the like….why wouldn’t they be good at it? It’s perfectly consistent with them not being that great at war. Weak in one area often means strength in another. They’re very good at that particular part of the game. They’re just not great at integrating all the pieces. Russia had gained a whole lot of ground, helping to fracture the US, the UK, the EU, and NATO….and then burned all of that advantage in mere days. The damage is still done, but what they wanted to gain from it didn’t really come to fruition.

You’re not very good at this, tankie.
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2 hours ago, Caponata said:

Global problems? Biden literally blamed it all on "Russia, Russia, Russia". Are they a crumbling paper tiger that can't even take on Ukraine or this ominipotent superpower that not only controls our elections but global energy prices, inflation, & supply chains? You can't have it both ways.

So it's your position that inflation and rising gas prices are not global problems, but instead a phenomenon limited to the US?

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I'm all for Sweden and Finland joining. That sounds like organic NATO expansion and a real boost in financial and combat capability. I'm also in favor of arming the Ukrainians with pretty much whatever they want. It's a bargain compared to sending our guys over there.

Speaking of which... we are now sending tens of thousands of troops to Poland permanently? Fuck that. Is NATO stronger or not? Could we fuck up Russia already as is or not? Weren't our European allies going to double their defense budgets? If we were asked to contribute that many, we should have said no and if we decided without asking then fuck us.

Fact is, this conflict seems like an escape from our very real domestic problems for too many politicians (both sides) and, by the looks of it, too many normally liberal posters on this board (myself included). 

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54 minutes ago, Foosters said:

So it's your position that inflation and rising gas prices are not global problems, but instead a phenomenon limited to the US?

As Biden pointed out all of these problems are due to God Emperor Putin controlling fuel prices & inflation. 

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3 hours ago, Bojack said:

They're being invaded, Fozzz. They're often faced with less than perfect choices. What would you do if you were President of Ukraine about this Russian invasion? If you were President of the USA, what would you differently? If you have a solution, the whole motherfucking world would love to hear it, Fozzz.

Diplomacy. Unfortunately the U.S. doesn't actually gaf about Ukrainians they're merely pawns in our proxy war against Russia. Funny how people with no skin in the game want to fight until the last dead Ukrainian. 

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2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


Except…..you literally can have it both ways, because that’s exactly the case.
Militarily, Russia is shit for its size. It has nukes, and it has numbers. The nukes means that its foes can’t just take their gloves off in a fight. It’s numbers mean that in spite of shitty equipment, shitty organization and leadership, and low motivation, it can still inflict real damage. A million teenagers with sharpened sticks can still inflict real damage. But as far as being a competitor with real powers, militarily…it’s shit.
As for being really, really good at espionage, sowing discord, and having an outsize influence in two fundamental economic sectors (food and energy)….that’s also exactly the case. It is the largest geographic country in the world, covering more arable land and more petroleum reserves than anyone else, so, yeah…Russia has real influence over the global economy. It’s just geography. As for Russian espionage, disinformation efforts, and the like….why wouldn’t they be good at it? It’s perfectly consistent with them not being that great at war. Weak in one area often means strength in another. They’re very good at that particular part of the game. They’re just not great at integrating all the pieces. Russia had gained a whole lot of ground, helping to fracture the US, the UK, the EU, and NATO….and then burned all of that advantage in mere days. The damage is still done, but what they wanted to gain from it didn’t really come to fruition.

You’re not very good at this, tankie.

The problem is you're focusing on the things in life that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time you should ask yourself "Am I on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like you I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now. Good luck.

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The problem is you're focusing on the things in life that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time you should ask yourself "Am I on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like you I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now. Good luck.

Things in life that don’t matter, per caponata: the military strength and aggression of a nuclear power, and the global nature of the world’s energy and food supplies.

Things that DO matter, per caponata: letting the Ukrainian people and nation be exterminated by a genocidal expansionist globally destabilizing fascist, in spite of their consistent entreaties not to let that happen.

I’m pretty good where I am on this, particularly as you can’t rebut a single truth I pointed out.
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The problem is you're focusing on the things in life that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time you should ask yourself "Am I on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like you I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now. Good luck.

Things in life that don’t matter, per caponata: the military strength and aggression of a nuclear power, and the global nature of the world’s energy and food supplies.

Things that DO matter, per caponata: letting the Ukrainian people and nation be exterminated by a genocidal expansionist globally destabilizing fascist, in spite of their consistent entreaties not to let that happen.

I’m pretty good where I am on this, particularly as you can’t rebut a single truth I pointed out.
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1 hour ago, berlinerbaer said:

I'm all for Sweden and Finland joining. That sounds like organic NATO expansion and a real boost in financial and combat capability. I'm also in favor of arming the Ukrainians with pretty much whatever they want. It's a bargain compared to sending our guys over there.

Speaking of which... we are now sending tens of thousands of troops to Poland permanently? Fuck that. Is NATO stronger or not? Could we fuck up Russia already as is or not? Weren't our European allies going to double their defense budgets? If we were asked to contribute that many, we should have said no and if we decided without asking then fuck us.

Fact is, this conflict seems like an escape from our very real domestic problems for too many politicians (both sides) and, by the looks of it, too many normally liberal posters on this board (myself included). 

V Corps headquarters will be in Poland and that’s about 650 soldiers.  There’s also going to be a Brigade Combat Team (approx. 4,500) in Romania.  So you’re off by a coupe tens of thousands.  I also don’t understand why we believe that having forward deployed units firmly integrated with our Allies in a potential theatre against one of our few competitors isn’t of benefit to us. 
 

This conflict and our domestic problems are firmly intertwined and a bad outcome will lead to more, and more serious domestic problems down the road.  This is a revanchist, angry, flailing want to be Empire that wants to upset the order in our core security sphere: Europe, our largest trading partner and the other shore of our Transatlantic lake.  We call people who can focus on the big picture “statesmen.”  

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58 minutes ago, Caponata said:

Diplomacy. Unfortunately the U.S. doesn't actually gaf about Ukrainians they're merely pawns in our proxy war against Russia. Funny how people with no skin in the game want to fight until the last dead Ukrainian. 

Please explain what your diplomatic solution is. Show your work. 

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1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:


 

This conflict and our domestic problems are firmly intertwined and a bad outcome will lead to more, and more serious domestic problems down the road.

A couple questions. Could you elaborate on how this war is intertwined with our domestic problems? Are you talking about how it worsened inflation and the sanctions increased oil prices?

 

What is a bad outcome? Would new borders that roughly stand where the lines currently do constitute a bad outcome?

 

Just trying to understand how a bad outcome would worsen our domestic situation. 

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3 hours ago, berlinerbaer said:

we are now sending tens of thousands of troops to Poland permanently?

It’s not tens of thousands.  

And would you rather those troops stay in Kentucky?  What kind of monster are you?  Do you hate the troops?

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6 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Wtf are you talking about, fuckhead? None of that is true. Quote me, dumbass, you lying piece of shit. Try to defend that assertion by quoting anything I’ve ever said. Go ahead. We’re waiting.

Jesus, you’re a shitty troll, Boris.

Still waiting on that quote, Boris. 

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1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

A collapse of the security order in the Transatlantic sphere will make Americans poorer and less secure. A return to open great power competition and territory grabs  will make the probability of conflict higher not lower and require more defense spending, not less.  
 

Any negotiated settlement not involving a clear and unambiguous defeat for Russia on the battlefield will mean this is merely a prelude for the next war. Putin has made that clear along with his entire apparatus and it takes immaculate ignorance not to see that. 
 

This is generational shit that is going on and you’re squawking about inflation. 

Unambiguous defeat, at least to me, implies expulsion of all Russian troops and re-establishment of pre existing borders. I think the amount of money and resources necessary to make that happen are more than what is politically feasible here or in Europe. The only way it becomes feasible is with significant escalation from Putin. I get the argument that it’s coming, but until it happens we’ll all be waiting while they blow each other up. 

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4 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Unambiguous defeat, at least to me, implies expulsion of all Russian troops and re-establishment of pre existing borders. I think the amount of money and resources necessary to make that happen are more than what is politically feasible here or in Europe. The only way it becomes feasible is with significant escalation from Putin. I get the argument that it’s coming, but until it happens we’ll all be waiting while they blow each other up. 

Russia is facing a demographic crisis. They can’t keep this up for the long term.  The fact that they are using shitty inaccurate anti-shipping missiles against civilian land targets speaks volumes.

If Putin gets his way and gets some territory, he won’t stop trying.  And then we will have this debate about Moldova and Georgia (again).

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10 hours ago, Parliament said:

I lurk here some, and post here never.  Or almost never.  My politics are the exact opposite of our President, and I've been surprised...impressed, by how well he's done with Ukraine.  Sounded the alarm early, stuck with it, and rallied the Allies.  Let's just hope he doesn't cock it up.

So you're a fascist?  Not sure how well that's gonna play, but rock on I guess.

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4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So you're a fascist?  Not sure how well that's gonna play, but rock on I guess.

He never attended Ohio State. Don’t believe him when he says he did. He’s lying. He doesn’t even know where the main library is. EVERYONE who ever attended OSU knows where the main library is.

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2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

He never attended Ohio State. Don’t believe him when he says he did. He’s lying. He doesn’t even know where the main library is. EVERYONE who ever attended OSU knows where the main library is.

Can he at least find the basement at the Alamo?

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5 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

V Corps headquarters will be in Poland and that’s about 650 soldiers.  There’s also going to be a Brigade Combat Team (approx. 4,500) in Romania.  So you’re off by a coupe tens of thousands.  I also don’t understand why we believe that having forward deployed units firmly integrated with our Allies in a potential theatre against one of our few competitors isn’t of benefit to us. 
 

This conflict and our domestic problems are firmly intertwined and a bad outcome will lead to more, and more serious domestic problems down the road.  This is a revanchist, angry, flailing want to be Empire that wants to upset the order in our core security sphere: Europe, our largest trading partner and the other shore of our Transatlantic lake.  We call people who can focus on the big picture “statesmen.”  

Here is the article linked in the Ukraine thread a few days back. Looks like it'll be about 20,000 spread throughout Europe, bringing the total to 100,000, on rotation. Mea culpa.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-nato-biden-madrid-jens-stoltenberg-de44b391b62aa3b9ccbd37ca12518f26

Quote

The dry language belied the dramatic shift under way as the U.S. prepares to keep 100,000 troops in Europe for the “foreseeable future,” up from 80,000 before the war in Ukraine began.

 

Quote

U.S. officials emphasized that the permanent basing applied only to headquarters units, not combat troops, and was therefore consistent with a 1997 agreement between NATO and Russia in which the alliance agreed not to permanently base combat troops in Eastern Europe as it aimed to build more constructive ties in the post-Cold War environment.

The combat units Biden is sending to Romania and the Baltic region are on rotational deployments, rather than permanent assignment, to remain in compliance with that agreement.

 

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19 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Russia is facing a demographic crisis. They can’t keep this up for the long term.  The fact that they are using shitty inaccurate anti-shipping missiles against civilian land targets speaks volumes.

If Putin gets his way and gets some territory, he won’t stop trying.  And then we will have this debate about Moldova and Georgia (again).

Ok let me this straight. Long term they’re fucked, but short term they must be stopped at all costs. They have a bumbling, outdated military but are a danger to all of Europe and the security order of our Transatlantic sphere. 
 

Also, I can assure you that if Ukraine isn’t keeping American’s attention, very few people will give a fuck about Moldova or Georgia. And I’m not sure they really should give more than a passing fuck. 
 

20 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This is generational shit that is going on and you’re squawking about inflation. 

You mock the inflation concern, but it underlies so many of the political problems out there. If you think 9% inflation in Germany doesn’t affect attitudes towards increasing military spending then I don’t know what to tell you. While the specter of a new PIGS sovereign debt crisis looms as well. Germans will be expected to bailout again. 
 

You don’t think it affects how Americans feel about sending tens of billions to Ukraine? Cmon. 
 

I actually think the debt/financial situation is more of a threat to EU stability long term than a decaying wannabe empire. 

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The troll wants you to ignore the cockroach metaphor. It ain’t what Russia carried off, it’s what they fall into and mess up.
A decaying empire with a large but shitty military with a not-great long-term future can still inflict enormous damage on the rest of the world that will take decades to repair as they fall. In fact, a desperate decaying empire is one of the most dangerous forces around: still big and strong and influential enough to cause catastrophic damage, and grasping at relevance and power desperately enough that they’re willing to do so.
Russia is and will remain a near to medium-term threat to functionally the entire world. In that time, they can cause catastrophic harm. That should be addressed.
By something other than trolls who think that Crypto cures all ills and Putin should be left alone to extend the lifespan of that decaying empire for another generation by vampirically siphoning off the wealth and demographics of neighbor nations.

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9 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Ok let me this straight. Long term they’re fucked, but short term they must be stopped at all costs. They have a bumbling, outdated military but are a danger to all of Europe and the security order of our Transatlantic sphere. 

Yes, they are an actual danger to us and our national security. Russia is trying to destabilize food and energy markets, and they brag about it on Russian state TV, and it is a clear danger to the US and Europe, which is why they are doing it.  You think illegals coming into the US is a problem now?  Just wait a few months when Russia fucking with the global food supply food now, truly causes massive price increases and shortages in Mexico/Central/South America and those people come north desperately looking for something better, and not simply because they can make a few more bucks. You saw what happened with the crisis in Europe being flooded with immigrants not too long ago.

I have a Q-following in-law who, like you, has a hard time wrapping her head around the notion that Russia is dangerous in the short term, but is fucked in the long term.  She has this viewpoint that either they are dangerous or they aren’t, regardless of time, and if they aren’t dangerous in the future, surely they can’t be dangerous now.

Like you, she doesn’t understand how all of this is interconnected and how Russia trying to wreck Ukraine’s ability to ship food internationally affects Americans.

She doesn’t even understand why Russia didn’t have enough babies in the 1990s or even why that matters here in 2022, and why Russia has kidnapped hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian kids. For somebody who keeps (angrily) using the “DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!” line when pressed to back up her statements, she relies heavily on talking points from Zero Hedge and RT and shady-as-fuck Telegram accounts.  She doesn’t understand that if Russia is bringing in 1960s-era T-62s in the rear areas, that their T-72s and T-80s and artillery at the front are still a threat.  She also buys into the Russian propaganda of this being a civil war (which you don’t).  I mention all of this not because I think you are a Qanon idiot, but because I’ve had these same discussions with her, and she just doesn’t understand why we need to support Ukraine and why Russia is dangerous until they are stopped.

Russia is doing a lot of what they are doing right now, because 5-10 years from now they’ll have an even smaller pool of young men to conscript from, which means a much smaller army, but that doesn’t mean we can wait the 5-10 years for their society (or rather their military) to collapse because in the meantime they will try and put tens of millions of Ukrainians, Moldovans, and Georgians under their rule in order to hold that off.  

They are reaching the point where they won’t have the manpower to invade other countries.  Hell, they are throwing kids in the Donbas into uniform, and extending the ages of eligible Russian men into their 40s and 50s.  They have also reached the point where they can’t easily replenish their modern military hardware thanks to losses in Ukraine and sanctions/tariffs cutting down on electronics and certain metals/sub-assemblies they need.  

In a nutshell, we need to help Ukraine and anybody else to make sure Russia runs out of young men and modern military hardware in the short term, so that they cease to be a threat much sooner, and so we can stabilize Ukraine and get her grain out to where it’s needed.

 

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Yes, they are an actual danger to us and our national security. Russia is trying to destabilize food and energy markets, and they brag about it on Russian state TV, and it is a clear danger to the US and Europe, which is why they are doing it.  You think illegals coming into the US is a problem now?  Just wait a few months when Russia fucking with the global food supply food now, truly causes massive price increases and shortages in Mexico/Central/South America and those people come north desperately looking for something better, and not simply because they can make a few more bucks. You saw what happened with the crisis in Europe being flooded with immigrants not too long ago.

 

 

Good thing our border is wide the fuck open.

Anyway you say they’re a national security threat because they’re destabilizing energy and food markets. There’s nothing we can do to stop them from doing that. In fact our sanctions have made the energy situation worse.
 

How would people here like to stop them? We literally can’t. Outside of a massive conflict. I disagree with the mantra that we must stop them at all costs because I don’t think we can stop them without risking a far worse calamity. 
 

I dislike this thread because it’s basically mainstream media/military industrial complex propaganda constantly about how great Ukraine is doing. But clearly Russia is advancing after their initial goals were shot down, to the Ukrainians credit. The reason this stuff is propagated is to help convince Americans it’s okay to keep sending money even though in a lot of ways it’s a lost cause. We aren’t pushing Russia back to the original borders. That’s a pipe dream. 
 


 

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

l

They are reaching the point where they won’t have the manpower to invade other countries.  Hell, they are throwing kids in the Donbas into uniform, and extending the ages of eligible Russian men into their 40s and 50s.  They have also reached the point where they can’t easily replenish their modern military hardware thanks to losses in Ukraine and sanctions/tariffs cutting down on electronics and certain metals/sub-assemblies they need.  

exactly. So people acting like they’re going to go country to country are mistaken. 
 

I see this as a big distraction from our biggest threat, China. And in the process of fighting it, our sanctions are causing more harm than we currently understand. 

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exactly. So people acting like they’re going to go country to country are mistaken. 
 
I see this as a big distraction from our biggest threat, China. And in the process of fighting it, our sanctions are causing more harm than we currently understand. 

See, what y’all don’t understand is that 1) domestically and internationally, everyone needs to do exactly what Putin wants, and in fact, mode our system after Russia’s, and 2)….say it with me, y’all know the refrain…CRYPTO!!!!!!!
That’ll make everything sunshine and roses!
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Good thing our border is wide the fuck open.

Which fucking border are you talking about? Have you been to the TX/MX border in the last 5 or 10 years? Not exactly walk across anymore. It requires a passport.

Unless you're talking about all the people incurring misdemeanors passing illegally not at a border crossing? Using your gun control arguments, why should we make any laws then? People will just ignore them and keep crossing anyways!

10 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

exactly. So people acting like they’re going to go country to country are mistaken. 
 

I see this as a big distraction from our biggest threat, China. And in the process of fighting it, our sanctions are causing more harm than we currently understand. 

You just don't like it when daddy putin is in focus by the west. Go send some Bitcoin to him, tovarish. 

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10 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


See, what y’all don’t understand is that 1) domestically and internationally, everyone needs to do exactly what Putin wants, and in fact, mode our system after Russia’s, and 2)….say it with me, y’all know the refrain…CRYPTO!!!!!!!
That’ll make everything sunshine and roses!

Crypto will make everything tulips.

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On 7/2/2022 at 1:55 PM, Immaculate Vibes said:

A couple questions. Could you elaborate on how this war is intertwined with our domestic problems?

Just trying to understand how a bad outcome would worsen our domestic situation. 

AA3816F3-916C-40F7-9963-C42AABC7A6E1.png.4ec65a06e46bd780391abe4d1c652e91.png

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18 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Good thing our border is wide the fuck open.

Republicans keep whining about the large amount of drugs and people being seized at the border under Joe Biden.  Doesn’t sound very open.

18 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Anyway you say they’re a national security threat because they’re destabilizing energy and food markets. There’s nothing we can do to stop them from doing that.

There is plenty we can do.  Help Ukraine regain control of their food and energy production that Russia seized, by helping Ukraine kick Russia out for starters.

18 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

But clearly Russia is advancing after their initial goals were shot down, to the Ukrainians credit.

Over the last 30 days or so, Russia has advanced so much, it will only take them 20 years to conquer the rest of Ukraine. That’s some advancement!

18 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

The reason this stuff is propagated is to help convince Americans it’s okay to keep sending money

If our politicians were competent, they’d be able to explain the concept of food and energy shortages in Africa and Mexico/South America leading to higher prices or more illegals crossing our borders, but they aren’t.  And many Americans don’t have the intelligence or motivation to understand how Russia deliberately destabilizing food and energy production and trying to take over other countries impacts their checkbook or national security.  

Fox News has probably spent more time on Hunter’s laptop than on the simple concepts of global markets and stability impacting the US.

You know what though? Helping another sovereign nation defend their freedom against a ruthless dictator is a pretty fucking American thing to do, as we celebrate the 4th of July.

18 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

even though in a lot of ways it’s a lost cause.

Russia is on day 130 or so of a 3-day war.  They are running low on a lot of high-tech munitions and manpower in general, and are having to take low-tech munitions from Belarus.  Let’s revisit this conversation on August 4th.  It’s not going to be the lost cause you think it is.

18 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

I see this as a big distraction from our biggest threat, China. 

The things you complained about us not being able to do about Russia, we wouldn’t be able to do about China in your world.

But you know what?  The United States and the European Union, as well as our partners (Japan, Canada Australia, etc.), throwing our economic weight around  in terms of sanctions, etc. against Russia has shaken China up, to the point where Xi is shuffling the pro-Russian officials out of the upper levels.  

The kinds of sanctions we levied against Russia, and the thought of stopping goods from China to most of the 1st World countries, scares the living shit out of Xi, because while it would hurt us, it would put hundreds of millions of Chinese out of work and in the streets.

If you take nothing else from all of this and from whatever pro-Russian sources you rely on, the US has shown it still has a shitload of economic power it can throw around.

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17 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

.

Russia is on day 130 or so of a 3-day war.  They are running low on a lot of high-tech munitions and manpower in general, and are having to take low-tech munitions from Belarus.  Let’s revisit this conversation on August 4th.  It’s not going to be the lost cause you think it is.

 

I hope you’re right. We’ll circle back. 
 

17 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

The things you complained about us not being able to do about Russia, we wouldn’t be able to do about China in your world.

But you know what?  The United States and the European Union, as well as our partners (Japan, Canada Australia, etc.), throwing our economic weight around  in terms of sanctions, etc. against Russia has shaken China up, to the point where Xi is shuffling the pro-Russian officials out of the upper levels.  

The kinds of sanctions we levied against Russia, and the thought of stopping goods from China to most of the 1st World countries, scares the living shit out of Xi, because while it would hurt us, it would put hundreds of millions of Chinese out of work and in the streets.

If you take nothing else from all of this and from whatever pro-Russian sources you rely on, the US has shown it still has a shitload of economic power it can throw around.

We do have a lot of economic power still. Unfortunately we’ve played a lot of our best cards and showed the gameplan. China, and others, can now adjust and prepare ahead of time. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

We do have a lot of economic power still. Unfortunately we’ve played a lot of our best cards and showed the gameplan. China, and others, can now adjust and prepare ahead of time. 

China could not prepare for Western companies suddenly bailing on China or us cutting ties to them in the event they invade Taiwan.  There’s nothing there to replace that - this isn’t oil or wheat where a few countries can stop buying from the US or Saudis or whoever and instead buy from Russia.  These are manufactured goods that only/mostly China makes, that if the US isn’t buying them, somebody else in the first world will step up and buy them.

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