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Moving the USS Texas


Chad Fuck
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1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I remember clambering all over her on a hot July day at 9 years old. On the way to Wally World from the Rio Grande Valley. Never been so proud to be a Texan, I thought she was magic.

I will never understand the aversion the lege has had to taking care of her. She should have been named a state park and maintained. 

The aversion is now and has always been $$$$$.

Museum ships take an incredible amount of maintenance.  The only ones I've ever seen that are "run like they oughta be" are in major urban centers - USS Intrepid, Midway, etc., or are still maintained by our tax dollars - USS Constitution, Missouri, etc.

They're mind bogglingly expensive for essentially a bunch of Navy retirees to keep up.

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I think they should drag it onto the land like the boats at Seawolf park in Galveston. In 50 years no one will really care about it, so If it's not cheap and easy to take care of, they'll eventually quit on her.  It will just cost too much.  

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I think they should drag it onto the land like the boats at Seawolf park in Galveston. In 50 years no one will really care about it, so If it's not cheap and easy to take care of, they'll eventually quit on her.  It will just cost too much.  

I think there is something to this. Maybe something like Mikasa in Japan.

Ships of this size are a lot to handle with volunteers. Hell, they were a lot to handle with 1000 paid 18 year olds scrambling all over scrubbing, chipping and painting. It’s a wonder it’s lasted this long.
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A few years ago I made a donation to the restoration or a restoration project of the day - Got a commemorative set of 1911 wooden grips as a thank you.  (Not special to me - part of the deal).  Wood for the grips came from the original decking from the ship.  Pretty cool.  Nice, well made grips with a medallion embedded and inscriptions on the back.  I should buy another 1911 to pair with them come to think of it.

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1 hour ago, PRONG HORN said:

I think they should drag it onto the land like the boats at Seawolf park in Galveston. In 50 years no one will really care about it, so If it's not cheap and easy to take care of, they'll eventually quit on her.  It will just cost too much.  

I think that becomes an issue as the hull is designed to be supported from all sides in the water and starts to sag otherwise. HMS Victory was having that issue. Perhaps, as suggested above, encased in concrete like the Mikasa might be an option. 
 

Where to park it so that it draws the visitors needed to support its upkeep will be interesting.  

 

 

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Just now, Bobby_Batronic said:

Where to park it so that it draws the visitors needed to support its upkeep will be interesting.  

 

 

They still haven't done anything with the Astrodome right?  Put your hands together Houston.

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27 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

They still haven't done anything with the Astrodome right?  Put your hands together Houston.

Great idea. The Roman figured this out 2000 years ago. Flood the dome and stage mock battles with the Texas reliving the a ruins it participated in. 
 

Profit. 

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Although it's barely recognizable as one, it has got to be one of a few or the only dreadnought type battleships surviving.

I believe it's the only remaining dreadnought type, certainly the only one that fought in both world wars!

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Great memories as a kid and with my children on the USS Texas - probably because of how much room to roam you get.

 

You can't preserve everything but we aren't preserving enough of the stuff that we could, in my opinion. 

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They should move it down to Corpus and park it next to the Lexington.    The success of the Lexington museum is due largely to number of retired Navy in this area who love to volunteer to help operate it.  Thus what money they make with admission, special events, etc goes to the upkeep. 

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I'm gonna be in the minority but I think it needs to be sold to a scrap yard and made into razor blades.  While I love our history of the Navy but sometimes shit gets too expensive to maintain.  

From the article, that’s the conclusion of the legislature. The state is giving $35 million and cutting them off. No more future maintenance will be funded by tax dollars. It’s now somebody else’s problem. It’s neat, for sure, but there’s only so much value the general public gets from something our kids might visit one time in their lives.
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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

That movie was stupid as hell.  And vastly entertaining.

Colonel Greg Gadson, I got to help drive him around at the Ol' MIss Game Texas played in years back in Oxford.  Good friend was a RB @ Miss but also great friends with Author Johnson, the Director of Athletics at Texas.  Mack brought him in to talk to the players at halftime.  So after the game we drove him back to his hotel.  Amazing guy.  Played on the line at WestPoint.  Lost both legs to an IED.  Guy's pretty special.  No CGI in that movie for him.  Did all his own stunts.  

Col. Greg Gadson | Bio | Premiere Speakers Bureau

2 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:


From the article, that’s the conclusion of the legislature. The state is giving $35 million and cutting them off. No more future maintenance will be funded by tax dollars. It’s now somebody else’s problem. It’s neat, for sure, but there’s only so much value the general public gets from something our kids might visit one time in their lives.

Surly group buy?

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Posted (edited)

I like the idea of museum ships because they can spark interest in history. But I don't understand keeping something in water unless it will periodically move, like the USS Constitution.  Repair her, pull her into a permanent boat slip, and then fill it in.  I'm sure it's not quite that easy but some smart people should be able to figure out to do it so she's safe for another 100 years.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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9 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I like the idea of museum ships because they can spark interest in history. But I don't understand keeping something in water unless it will periodically move, like the USS Constitution.  Repair her, pull her into a permanent boat slip, and then fill it in.  I'm sure it's not quite that easy but some smart people should be able to figure out to do it so she's safe for another 100 years.

USS Texas belongs in Austin.  Put that big mother on campus, right outside DKR, and fly the biggest Texas flag we have over her!

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Posted (edited)

I did a deep dive on dreadnought and inter-war battleships.  Like most early 20th century US battleships, Texas was launched with cage masts.  Trivia, it was also the last coal-fired US battleship and the last with reciprocating steam engines.

The cage masts were replaced during a refit in the 20s, and they were on most battleships of the era as they were a pretty colossal failure.  Yet, this iconic photo of the Pearl Harbor attack shows two still with cage masts.

99b5546abc9aa4d4d2ce4fa6a912f02e.jpg

I had somehow assumed that Arizona had cage masts and was in this photo, but it's not, it's West Virginia and Tennessee, both of which were commissioned around the time Texas and Arizona were refitted with tripod masts.

Also interesting, these two ships, which survived to fight later, had turbo-electric propulsion installed.  They were hybrids!!

Edited by TwiceHorn
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31 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:


From the article, that’s the conclusion of the legislature. The state is giving $35 million and cutting them off. No more future maintenance will be funded by tax dollars. It’s now somebody else’s problem. It’s neat, for sure, but there’s only so much value the general public gets from something our kids might visit one time in their lives.

This is kind of a short sighted view.  Sure, maybe our kids visit one time in their lives.  If that's true for only half the kids in Texas, that's six million kids it could affect. 

While I get the maintenance costs are a huge issue, framing it as "well my kids would only visit once so it's of no value" is a weird way to evaluate historical artifacts. 

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34 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I like the idea of museum ships because they can spark interest in history. But I don't understand keeping something in water unless it will periodically move, like the USS Constitution.  Repair her, pull her into a permanent boat slip, and then fill it in.  I'm sure it's not quite that easy but some smart people should be able to figure out to do it so she's safe for another 100 years.

Constitution is an unusual case as she's still a fully commissioned US Navy ship, maintained by our sailors and our tax dollars. 

 

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52 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

This is kind of a short sighted view.  Sure, maybe our kids visit one time in their lives.  If that's true for only half the kids in Texas, that's six million kids it could affect. 

While I get the maintenance costs are a huge issue, framing it as "well my kids would only visit once so it's of no value" is a weird way to evaluate historical artifacts. 

No to get CR but our state legislatures don't care about secular history.

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10 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

No to get CR but our state legislatures don't care about secular history.

I agree, there seems to be an emphasis on myth rather than fact.

But before I climb too far out onto that CR limb, to be honest, if it doesn't make money or bring in votes, the Leg isn't going to be terribly interested in it.  Especially if it costs more money than it brings in.  But there's no way to really tell that here.  How much can Battleship Texas attract in the future?  Who is going to gain/lose votes because of it?

The suggestion upthread to birth it next to Lexington seems to be a decent one.  I've been to a lot of museum ships, and I have to say by far the best maintained, with the best history program, was the USS Midway in San Diego.  It has been maintained in great condition and they educational programs for adults and kids are outstanding.  So there's a major metro area (lots of paying people to show up) and it's literally right across the bay from a major Naval station (lots of skilled vets to volunteer/maintain).  

Intrepid is probably a close second.  It trades an even bigger metro area to draw upon, but maybe less direct access to Navy vets compared to San Diego.  

Alabama is very well maintained, also near a major metropolitan area.

I think the only place in Texas that currently exists is in Corpus.  Willing to be proven wrong though.  

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They should move it down to Corpus and park it next to the Lexington.    The success of the Lexington museum is due largely to number of retired Navy in this area who love to volunteer to help operate it.  Thus what money they make with admission, special events, etc goes to the upkeep. 

The problem is no one ever plans a trip around touring these ships. It’s always something else you do on your trip. For Corpus, the expense and effort would double but tourism income and donations would stay flat. No one that was going to Galveston will change their plans and go to CC just to walk on a second boat.
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1 minute ago, CooterBrown said:


The problem is no one ever plans a trip around touring these ships. It’s always something else you do on your trip. For Corpus, the expense and effort would double but tourism income and donations would stay flat. No one that was going to Galveston will change their plans and go to CC just to walk on a second boat.

Those people exist, and I've met them.  But this is a great point and you are absolutely correct they're a very small subset of people and not enough to make a difference in the big picture.  

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1 hour ago, Chad Fuck said:

This is kind of a short sighted view.  Sure, maybe our kids visit one time in their lives.  If that's true for only half the kids in Texas, that's six million kids it could affect. 

While I get the maintenance costs are a huge issue, framing it as "well my kids would only visit once so it's of no value" is a weird way to evaluate historical artifacts. 

I don't completely disagree with you. But it's a cost-benefit analysis. Would I like to see it around forever? Sure. It's cool as hell. But it's expensive to keep floating. If that expense can be offloaded to the people who care about it the most, then I have no problem with that.

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1) Texas, especially Houston, doesnt really give a shit about preserving history or historical buildings/sites. Its pathetic

 

2) There are 3 spots to place her in Texas.

In Galveston at Seawolf park/Moody Gardens marina/end of Pleasure Pier.

Next to Lexington.

Port Isabel by the Lighthouse.

 

Anywhere else aint gonna get the foot traffic and/or visitors.


 

 

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Texas has never really cared about the San Jacinto battlefield. It will become even that much more irrelevant wo the USS Texas.

I can understand that repairs are needed but it's odd that the Texas is going off to the dry docks without knowing where her permanent home will be. 

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7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Texas has never really cared about the San Jacinto battlefield. It will become even that much more irrelevant wo the USS Texas.

I can understand that repairs are needed but it's odd that the Texas is going off to the dry docks without knowing where her permanent home will be. 

I had the same thought.  It's just so far out of the way and there's absolutely nothing else out there to see but petrochemical facilities.

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3 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I had the same thought.  It's just so far out of the way and there's absolutely nothing else out there to see but petrochemical facilities.

In terms of a state historical building and artifacts, the San Jacinto monument is acceptable but you have to commit to 1/2 day on a visit. I'm sure school kids from La Porte, Pasadena or Texas City visit it but besides that it must be lonely out there.

A few years back I found myself with nothing to do during a work day so I wanted to see the USS Texas. But it had a leak and was listing too bad for visitors so I only toured the Monument. Some school kids were wrapping up their visit and I spent a hour or so looking around. 

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If the legislature isn't going to fund it beyond the current allocation, it needs to be located within eyeshot of a Interstate like the Alabama so it can grab eyeballs.

Done right, it could generate enough gate fees to pair with preservation foundation funds or corporate sponsors to keep it around.

Would chew up someone's shoreline, so the right partner would be an entity looking to siphon off traffic into an area anyway; willing to trade shoreline for traffic.

 

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4 hours ago, CooterBrown said:


The problem is no one ever plans a trip around touring these ships. It’s always something else you do on your trip. For Corpus, the expense and effort would double but tourism income and donations would stay flat. No one that was going to Galveston will change their plans and go to CC just to walk on a second boat.

I know it's not "the' draw, but there is decent chance for the preserving history the USS Texas would be embraced.    These old Navy dudes and dudettes for that matter who are retired down here live for this sort of thing.  

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