Jump to content

NBA 2022-2023 Season Thread


Mitch Cumsteen

Recommended Posts

Simmons is explaining how the new CBA is actually shit for the players and homegrown teams. It’s basically what I was saying back when it was first announced. A team like the warriors with Steph, Klay and Draymond would have a hard time existing.

I think what will happen is there will be way less of “max” contracts. So you would have to tell someone like Chet “sorry bro, we can only give you 3 years and 45m.” Since all teams will be in the same position it will be very unlikely that other teams will be able to throw offer sheets.

The players fucked themselves by not reading the small print.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

Simmons is explaining how the new CBA is actually shit for the players and homegrown teams. It’s basically what I was saying back when it was first announced. A team like the warriors with Steph, Klay and Draymond would have a hard time existing.

I think what will happen is there will be way less of “max” contracts. So you would have to tell someone like Chet “sorry bro, we can only give you 3 years and 45m.” Since all teams will be in the same position it will be very unlikely that other teams will be able to throw offer sheets.

The players fucked themselves by not reading the small print.

Link?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

Simmons is explaining how the new CBA is actually shit for the players and homegrown teams. It’s basically what I was saying back when it was first announced. A team like the warriors with Steph, Klay and Draymond would have a hard time existing.

I think what will happen is there will be way less of “max” contracts. So you would have to tell someone like Chet “sorry bro, we can only give you 3 years and 45m.” Since all teams will be in the same position it will be very unlikely that other teams will be able to throw offer sheets.

The players fucked themselves by not reading the small print.

Yes and no. The rank and file will get more money now that the superstars can't horde all the cap and still hope to compete. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Yes and no. The rank and file will get more money now that the superstars can't horde all the cap and still hope to compete. 

That's probably not how it's going to work. You'll still have to pay the superstars max deals. Then your 3 through 5 you're still going to have to bid for against other teams. It's the guys 6-15 that are going to make less money. Teams aren't going to say "Sorry SGA - we can't afford $50M per because we have to pay our 3rd guy off the bench $12M". It's going to be "Well we have to pay SGA, sorry 3rd guy on our bench we only have $6M per for you"

It seems like it's going to benefit the best ~120 guys and fuck over the worst 300.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

I think what will happen is there will be way less of “max” contracts. So you would have to tell someone like Chet “sorry bro, we can only give you 3 years and 45m.” Since all teams will be in the same position it will be very unlikely that other teams will be able to throw offer sheets.

No - because shitty teams will always be willing to offer the most money. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They should have gotten rid of the “max contracts” as well. Too easy for any top player on any team to simply demand “the max”. Let teams pay what they want and let superstars convince others to play with them for peanuts.  
 

Let Dame and Beal negotiate and explain why they are worth as much as Lebron or Curry. 

Edited by ChickenSandwich
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

No - because shitty teams will always be willing to offer the most money. 

Yep, the goal is to not have teams like the Warriors have 3-4 max guys and ultimately get them spread over more teams.  There will always be shitty teams desperate to get a star that will overpay a Wiggins or the like.     Thing is team like the Warriors, Nets, Lakers, etc bail those shitty teams out all the time.  Like GSW did did for Wiggins.   Under the new rules MIN wouldn't be able to find someone to take him off their hands and they would be stuck until his deal ends.  

Every time they try to put in measures to protect the small market teams the owners end up fucking themselves.   Happened with the supermax provision.   I suspect it will be the same with this.   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

That's probably not how it's going to work. You'll still have to pay the superstars max deals. Then your 3 through 5 you're still going to have to bid for against other teams. It's the guys 6-15 that are going to make less money. Teams aren't going to say "Sorry SGA - we can't afford $50M per because we have to pay our 3rd guy off the bench $12M". It's going to be "Well we have to pay SGA, sorry 3rd guy on our bench we only have $6M per for you"

It seems like it's going to benefit the best ~120 guys and fuck over the worst 300.

I guess we'll see. The cap is going up. At some point the numbers are going to be so ridiculous that unless it's a pure ego thing, the dollars aren't going to make a material difference. You see someone like Mahomes in the NFL structure his deal to help the franchise compete long term. I don't think it's out of the question to see nba stars do it as well. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the players perspective I've always felt they should be pushing for the highest minimum rather than a high maximum. Keep the standard deviation among players low. Force teams to compete for stars by competitive prowess rather than salary alone.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I guess we'll see. The cap is going up. At some point the numbers are going to be so ridiculous that unless it's a pure ego thing, the dollars aren't going to make a material difference. You see someone like Mahomes in the NFL structure his deal to help the franchise compete long term. I don't think it's out of the question to see nba stars do it as well. 

I could definitely see the numbers getting so big that max is like 60 and 2-3 max level guys getting together and saying let's take 40/ea and play together.   Especially with how big the offcourt numbers are getting its more likely.   There is really no way to legislate superteams away.   They've always existed and they will always exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I guess we'll see. The cap is going up. At some point the numbers are going to be so ridiculous that unless it's a pure ego thing, the dollars aren't going to make a material difference. You see someone like Mahomes in the NFL structure his deal to help the franchise compete long term. I don't think it's out of the question to see nba stars do it as well. 

You're right that that's the alternative. I'm just saying I'll believe it when I see it. And the pay cut would have to be fairly significant to matter. Steph Curry may or may not take less than $60M. The Charlotte Hornets are always, every single time, going to offer him that money. 

Edited by ztejas
Link to comment
Share on other sites

KD took a huge paycut when he went to the Warriors for 20m his first year. He couldn't actually make it there without taking a discount, but he gave a bit more to help them sign more help. Some guys are just so desperate for a ring, they will forego millions to make it happen. Lebron, Bosh and Wade all took discounts of about 5m a piece to join in Miami and give the Heat cap space to fill out the team. I think Haslem was the only player on their roster when they signed the big 3.

It's still going to happen, but the higher the overall cap limit goes, the less detrimental the discounts are to the player. If a few guys are only dropping a few million to team up, then it's not a big deal to them. I know with KD, one of the big selling points for San Francisco was all the other business and endorsement options available that completely dwarf anything he could get staying in OKC. Stuff like that on the side is often more lucrative than their actual salaries. I think we will continue to see the Beals and Lillards of the world take max money, while the smarter guys take a little less to make a competitive team and earn big money from other options. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

KD took a huge paycut when he went to the Warriors for 20m his first year. He couldn't actually make it there without taking a discount,

KD's salary jumped from $20M to $26.5M when he joined Golden State in 2016, which was at least a stone's throw from the maximum that a new team could offer him in free agency. The player's union would have been [more] pissed if he took a huge discount to go there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

KD's salary jumped from $20M to $26.5M when he joined Golden State in 2016, which was at least a stone's throw from the maximum that a new team could offer him in free agency. The player's union would have been [more] pissed if he took a huge discount to go there. 

Yeah it was the next season or two he helped y'all out significantly.

Either way the key to the whole thing was Curry playing for chump change because no one knew if his ankles could be saved. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I think that's a great hire for DET. Just may need to find a better xs and os guy later on when Cade is in his prime. 

I'm not saying it's a bad fit but the price seems high for a guy that just got exposed in the playoffs massively for the second straight year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, SilasCoade said:

I'm not saying it's a bad fit but the price seems high for a guy that just got exposed in the playoffs massively for the second straight year.

I mean I don't really care what they're paying him. It isn't my money and it doesn't go against their cap. I'd agree that six years seems like a lot. 

They need a floor setter and galvanizer. They don't even know what they have yet. Monty is a players coach and will help them figure that out and get those guys playing for each other. 

Like I said - if they start bombing out of the playoffs with Cade, Ivey, Duren reaching their primes then they may end up canning him and hiring a Nick Nurse or Vogel type guy.

For now - they just need a guy to develop that roster and not fuck anything up. Monty is a safe choice. Cade may wind up dragging him the way CP did, anyway. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paying Monty Williams $78.5 million for 6 years is fucking insanity. He's a bad coach. He coached New Orleans for 5 years (first with CP3 / David West, and then with Anthony Davis) and won a grand total of two playoff games. Not two playoff series, two games. The next playoff adjustment he makes will be his first. I can somewhat believe he got hired, but holy shit that is the worst overpay in NBA coaching history. Even Jimbo Fisher thinks that's a bad contract.

And I also have it on pretty good authority that he's not exactly a great dude. Nobody has gotten more mileage out of a eulogy than that guy. And if he were that broken up about his wife of 20 years tragically passing, he probably wouldn't have gotten engaged 6 months later to a Spurs staffer who was described to me as, "I don't know what it is with that woman, but every guy she sleeps with falls madly in love with her. She must have a magic pussy." So... $78.5 million and magic pussy? I guess Monty is doing okay for himself. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also don't think Monty was that bad in the playoffs. He at least made some of the right adjustments even if they came later than they should have. Their biggest issues were with continuity and personnel. I can't imagine trying to get DA to do fucking anything consistently and his starting PG made it 6 quarters in that DEN series. 

I agree that PHO should have fired him - but that has more to do with how thin some of their margins are going to be with the roster they've constructed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Paying Monty Williams $78.5 million for 6 years is fucking insanity. He's a bad coach. He coached New Orleans for 5 years (first with CP3 / David West, and then with Anthony Davis) and won a grand total of two playoff games. Not two playoff series, two games. The next playoff adjustment he makes will be his first. I can somewhat believe he got hired, but holy shit that is the worst overpay in NBA coaching history. Even Jimbo Fisher thinks that's a bad contract.

And I also have it on pretty good authority that he's not exactly a great dude. Nobody has gotten more mileage out of a eulogy than that guy. And if he were that broken up about his wife of 20 years tragically passing, he probably wouldn't have gotten engaged 6 months later to a Spurs staffer who was described to me as, "I don't know what it is with that woman, but every guy she sleeps with falls madly in love with her. She must have a magic pussy." So... $78.5 million and magic pussy? I guess Monty is doing okay for himself. 

Well it is Detroit and they were going to have to hand out a contract like this to get an established coach. I do not put the Suns implosion on him. A Suns beat writer called it the moment the trade happened that brought Durant into the fold. Having to coach a professional malcontent in Ayton as well as a point guard that is NEVER healthy come playoff time is not a real good recipe for success. When you’re left with Booker as your best player on the floor, a guy who does NOT want to be the lead voice in the room (By his own admission) it would not matter who the coach is.

His personal shortcomings? He’s no more infallible than you or I. I am certain he loved his wife, but I don’t fault him for being with someone new not long after. We all deal with grief differently. I would prefer to have Spoelstra as my coach(So would most everyone else), but I think Williams will bring some stability to a franchise in dire need of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Well it is Detroit and they were going to have to hand out a contract like this to get an established coach. I do not put the Suns implosion on him. A Suns beat writer called it the moment the trade happened that brought Durant into the fold. Having to coach a professional malcontent in Ayton as well as a point guard that is NEVER healthy come playoff time is not a real good recipe for success. When you’re left with Booker as your best player on the floor, a guy who does NOT want to be the lead voice in the room (By his own admission) it would not matter who the coach is.

His personal shortcomings? He’s no more infallible than you or I. I am certain he loved his wife, but I don’t fault him for being with someone new not long after. We all deal with grief differently. I would prefer to have Spoelstra as my coach(So would most everyone else), but I think Williams will bring some stability to a franchise in dire need of it.

Yeah. Maybe his wife sucked. 

I will say... I'd give CP a lot more credit than Monty for getting those guys to the Finals and winning 66 games last season. Phoenix is also reportedly going to hire their lead assistant. You do the math.

But this is a Pistons team that hasn't won 40 games combined the past two seasons. They don't need a playoffs savant they need a rebuild guy. Monty should be able to do that. Suns fans didn't hate the guy they just got tired of his dumbass lineups and in-game stuff. They recognize that he helped turn that franchise around. 

I also think he's a better coach than he was in NO. Even if it's marginal. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also... I wasn't necessarily implying Monty was a bad dude because of the wife thing. I just heard he was an asshole in general from someone who worked fairly closely with him and hardly ever says a bad word about anybody. I only brought up the wife because of how much that plays into the general perception of him.

And for sure CP3 should get more credit for that finals run than Monty. Again, I think Monty is an extremely average coach. His biggest accomplishment in Phoenix was being a port in the storm during the Robert Sarver bullshit. I just don't think he brings much to the table. Detroit could have hired an up and coming assistant who would be just as good if not better for a fraction of the cost. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Wally Pryor said:

Starts tomorrow night, 30 for 30 on Our National Treasure. 

Can't wait to watch this.

 

 

I don’t care what people think of this man. He is awesome and his spirit of happiness and thankfulness is really cool to behold. He was quite literally once at a point of having to lay on the floor of his house just to be able to not hurt every moment of the day.
 

His commentating is crazy, but that makes him who he is. We could all stand to take ourselves less seriously and just enjoy life like Bill Walton.

  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

I don’t care what people think of this man. He is awesome and his spirit of happiness and thankfulness is really cool to behold. He was quite literally once at a point of having to lay on the floor of his house just to be able to not hurt every moment of the day.
 

His commentating is crazy, but that makes him who he is. We could all stand to take ourselves less seriously and just enjoy life like Bill Walton.

 

Walton is just awesome period, including his on-air work. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Wally Pryor said:

 

Walton is just awesome period, including his on-air work. 

Yes, yes he is. I will never under criticism of him. I am a die-hard Laker fan and he will still put on the Kelly Green and White to rep THOSE GUYS, but even that does not make me dislike him. The man just exudes positivity and again, taking into consideration what he he gone through privately, makes it all the more remarkable how he just takes everything in stride. He is one of the few public figures I would like to meet. The list is him, Magic, Kareem and perhaps the mythical Kyriakos Rambidis, aka Kurt Rambis as he was once known in Greece early in his pro career. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve told this Walton story on here before. He was calling a spurs lakers playoff game way back in the day and we’re sitting pretty close to the broadcast table. Good seats obviously. Halftime rolls around and Kobe spent the first half trying to distribute to his teammates and they were missing everything in sight and you could tell he was getting pissed. Walton walks by and I say, “Hey Bill. How many times do you think Kobe passes the ball in the second half?” He looks me dead in the eye in full Walton voice and says, “Not very many” and starts laughing. Halftime is almost finished and he comes back to the table holding one of those Where’s Walton tie dye tshirts. He comes looking for me and hands me one. So great. I love Bill Walton. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...