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Turbo Tax can EABOD


Neonmoon

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https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/17/heres-who-qualifies-for-irs-free-direct-file-pilot-program-in-2024.html
 

The IRS on Tuesday unveiled more details about its direct filing pilot program launching for the 2024 tax season.

Known as Direct File, the pilot will allow certain taxpayers to electronically file federal tax returns for free directly through the IRS, the agency told reporters on a press call.

Starting in 2024, Arizona, California, Massachusetts and New York will integrate state tax filings into the pilot program. Taxpayers from Alaska, Florida, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming may also be eligible.

An IRS official estimates “at least several hundred thousand taxpayers across the country” will have the option to participate in the 2024 pilot program.

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58 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Having watched my father in agonistical spasms as little drops of blood appeared on his forehead while filing his tax returns in the 1970s, I disagree.

It's 2023.  The IRS has everything in a digital format, and for most Americans (non-freelancers) they have all of your info from your employer.  I'm not saying we should be able to reduce it to a postcard, but it shouldn't take as long as it does.

16 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

FIFY.

Who do you think the tax software companies are bribing?

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I've been a CPA for over 40 years.  The tax code was still very complicated back when we prepared tax returns by hand in pencil. 

The tax software (both the professional stuff that accounting firms use and the retail stuff like TurboTax) has made it much easier to prepare returns and to deal with complex stuff like Alternative Minimum Tax, Qualified Business Income deductions, Self Employment tax, operating or capital loss carryforwards, depreciation, etc.

The free filing approach may be fine for many W-2 folks that don't have any deductions, rental properties, or other business interests.

But high net worth business owners (like all the Surly lawyers) that have pass-through partnership income, different business interests, complex investments, and such are never gonna be interested in just trusting the IRS to tell them what they owe.

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6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Tax software companies are the reason tax filing is as complicated as it is.

False.

It takes me less than 30 minutes a year, for $39 or whatever, and every form is there.

Used to be a hassle even with my penny-ante shit before that.

 

That being said, if I'm eligible on the free shit, guess what I'm gonna use?

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2 hours ago, Keef said:

The IRS could do your taxes for you and then send you a completed return for you to sign off on or supplement as you think is necessary.  For the vast majority of Americans, they have all of your info - when you get a W-2, 1099, etc., the issuer has to send a copy to the IRS as well.  This has been proposed many times, only to be shut down by Intuit lobby.  

Exactly. We should not be involved in the process. 

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8 hours ago, CooterBrown said:


That happened to me two years ago. Tried to file through Turbo Tax and got a message that my return had already been submitted. Had to fill out a fraud form and mail in a paper copy instead.

Joke was on them though since I owed an additional $15,000!

giphy.gif

Kind of humblebrag?

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16 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

And the Accounting/Consulting firms.  

Not really.  Our tax code is complicated because we administer an income tax system with graduated rates.  What is and isn't "income" and when you should be taxed on it isn't straightforward at all.  People often say they want a flat tax on all consumption items, but the issue there is that poor and middle income folks get screwed because they spend a larger portion of their income and don't save as much.  The more "fair" you make the tax code, the more complicated it becomes as a result.  Congress of course doesn't help matters by passing absurd laws that are broad and then relying on an understaffed IRS to fill in the blanks.  The loopholes Congress writes in for lobbying interests - and there are many - are also awful.  

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10 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I've been a CPA for over 40 years.  The tax code was still very complicated back when we prepared tax returns by hand in pencil. 

The tax software (both the professional stuff that accounting firms use and the retail stuff like TurboTax) has made it much easier to prepare returns and to deal with complex stuff like Alternative Minimum Tax, Qualified Business Income deductions, Self Employment tax, operating or capital loss carryforwards, depreciation, etc.

The free filing approach may be fine for many W-2 folks that don't have any deductions, rental properties, or other business interests.

But high net worth business owners (like all the Surly lawyers) that have pass-through partnership income, different business interests, complex investments, and such are never gonna be interested in just trusting the IRS to tell them what they owe.

I'm not Big Cigar Surly, but I do alright and my shit is complicated. It would take a CPA if I didn't have software that knows more than I do to fill shit out right and avoid getting audited.

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12 hours ago, Neonmoon said:
Quote

“In this limited pilot for 2024, we will be working closely with the states that have agreed to participate in an important test run of the state integration,” IRS Commissioner Danny Werfel said. 

I wonder if Terry Dean also contributed

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1 hour ago, Keef said:

Not really.  Our tax code is complicated because we administer an income tax system with graduated rates.  What is and isn't "income" and when you should be taxed on it isn't straightforward at all.  People often say they want a flat tax on all consumption items, but the issue there is that poor and middle income folks get screwed because they spend a larger portion of their income and don't save as much.  The more "fair" you make the tax code, the more complicated it becomes as a result.  Congress of course doesn't help matters by passing absurd laws that are broad and then relying on an understaffed IRS to fill in the blanks.  The loopholes Congress writes in for lobbying interests - and there are many - are also awful.  

It's complicated because rich assholes want loopholes to get around paying taxes. It shouldn't be that hard.

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4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Exactly. We should not be involved in the process. 

Is this sarcasm? Or you mean not involved in the process until the end to verify, confirm/deny, appeal?

I actually like getting the first turn on my taxes and submitting, on my timeframe (usually early April) versus it being done for me.

Honestly, I don't trust the government to not make mistakes (IRS agents are still humans and tech is still sometimes buggy) and don't just want to given a non-negotiable invoice from the U.S. Government without recourse before it hits my inbox, with what we know the consequences are like for not paying in a timely manner.

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2 hours ago, Keef said:

Not really.  Our tax code is complicated because we administer an income tax system with graduated rates.  What is and isn't "income" and when you should be taxed on it isn't straightforward at all.  People often say they want a flat tax on all consumption items, but the issue there is that poor and middle income folks get screwed because they spend a larger portion of their income and don't save as much.  The more "fair" you make the tax code, the more complicated it becomes as a result.  Congress of course doesn't help matters by passing absurd laws that are broad and then relying on an understaffed IRS to fill in the blanks.  The loopholes Congress writes in for lobbying interests - and there are many - are also awful.  

The progressive tax isnt the issue. Its similarly bracketed elsewhere. The difference is the immensity of the US tax code. 

To a degree its justified. Taxation is an instrumental way to govern. The 3rd most populous and by far most productive country necessarily have to have lots of different interests to cater to. 

But its a tad much. Do we need people to stay in equities to discount ltcg? Do we still need to incentivize property investors with 1031 exchanges? etc. Reassess the whole book

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1 hour ago, BeardIP said:

Is this sarcasm? Or you mean not involved in the process until the end to verify, confirm/deny, appeal?

I actually like getting the first turn on my taxes and submitting, on my timeframe (usually early April) versus it being done for me.

Honestly, I don't trust the government to not make mistakes (IRS agents are still humans and tech is still sometimes buggy) and don't just want to given a non-negotiable invoice from the U.S. Government without recourse before it hits my inbox, with what we know the consequences are like for not paying in a timely manner.

Not involved in the end to verify, confirm/deny, appeal, etc.

I understand there are some people who are can't handle computers. I also understand there are some people that believe the government is the boogeyman. Fine. 

But whether it's a CPA with 40 years, Turbo Tax, or the IRS, they are all supposed to play by the same rules? Correct? There aren't two sets of tax codes, right? So it all boils down to something (CPA or Computer) asking you for all your inputs, then determining what you owe based on those inputs. 

Now I'm also fully aware of the argument that a very good, well paid tax accountant can structure your taxes in a way that benefits you or your company in the past, present, and future by not including certain inputs, all legally of course, that machine can't discern. My argument to that, is that, we can build a machine that does that if it's not aready a capability. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Not involved in the end to verify, confirm/deny, appeal, etc.

I understand there are some people who are can't handle computers. I also understand there are some people that believe the government is the boogeyman. Fine. 

But whether it's a CPA with 40 years, Turbo Tax, or the IRS, they are all supposed to play by the same rules? Correct? There aren't two sets of tax codes, right? So it all boils down to something (CPA or Computer) asking you for all your inputs, then determining what you owe based on those inputs. 

Now I'm also fully aware of the argument that a very good, well paid tax accountant can structure your taxes in a way that benefits you or your company in the past, present, and future by not including certain inputs, all legally of course, that machine can't discern. My argument to that, is that, we can build a machine that does that if it's not aready a capability. 

 

To your point, I read today that the youth are seemingly seeing the writing on the wall and kids aren't studying to be accountants anymore in the numbers of the past. Probably because technology will do a lot of the heavy lifting and the light lifting is outsourced for $.25 on the $1.00: https://www.wsj.com/articles/accounting-graduates-drop-by-highest-percentage-in-years-5720cd0f

Quote

 

College students have crunched the numbers, and a career in accounting is no longer adding up for them.

According to the most recent data from the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, the number of US students graduating with either a bachelor’s or master’s degree in accounting dropped 7.4% during the 2021–22 academic year from the year before, the largest one-year decline since at least 1994–95.

Why have these degrees become so much less popular?

Pay has stagnated. According to the WSJ, the average starting salary for recent graduates is $56,000, a number that has not budged since 2008 when adjusting for inflation. It’s also well below starting salaries in tech or finance.

More education. Accountants require a fifth year at a college, an expense that is proving prohibitive for many considering a profession that was once seen as a path to the upper middle-class for poorer Americans.

With more than 300,000 accountants and auditors leaving the field over the past two years and the pipeline drying up, large and small American firms are writing off the idea of finding help at home. PwC has outsourced to Malaysia, Argentina, China, India, Mexico, and the Philippines, while Deloitte’s US business employs almost as many people outside the US as it does overseas

 

 

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Yeah, it's going to be a problem for a lot of jobs, and society in general. 

I understand there are many out there, and on this board that will say, "no computer can do what I do". I get it, and it's probably mostly true, we will still need experts in every field. I'm not saying advisors will go away, I'm just stating there will a lot less of them. For example, the down the middle W-2 people don't need a CPA to do their taxes. Turbo Tax has been doing their taxes for years online. Now, the IRS will cut out the stupid middleman and not charge a fee. 

The same can be said for many businesses. In the lending business, I hear this a lot. We will always need our job. Sure, but the majority of the easy down the middle 2 years of W2 don't need our help. They may be needy and want it, but it's not required to complete the task. There's just going to be less jobs available because of automation. 

Now, what will the impact on society be? Will people just pivot to other jobs? Maybe. But what? Even coders are seeing they may no longer be needed in 5 years due to AI. Can we all be waiters? Influencers? 

 

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2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Yeah, it's going to be a problem for a lot of jobs, and society in general. 

I understand there are many out there, and on this board that will say, "no computer can do what I do". I get it, and it's probably mostly true, we will still need experts in every field. I'm not saying advisors will go away, I'm just stating there will a lot less of them. For example, the down the middle W-2 people don't need a CPA to do their taxes. Turbo Tax has been doing their taxes for years online. Now, the IRS will cut out the stupid middleman and not charge a fee. 

The same can be said for many businesses. In the lending business, I hear this a lot. We will always need our job. Sure, but the majority of the easy down the middle 2 years of W2 don't need our help. They may be needy and want it, but it's not required to complete the task. There's just going to be less jobs available because of automation. 

Now, what will the impact on society be? Will people just pivot to other jobs? Maybe. But what? Even coders are seeing they may no longer be needed in 5 years due to AI. Can we all be waiters? Influencers? 

 

You mentioned you are in the lender business (assuming a banker, but possibly mortgage?). I read an interesting bit today about the DOJ potentially doing away with the realtor commission as we've known it and Refin CEO saying he thinks that would put half the realtors on the street. That's a ton of people.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-16/us-realtors-lucrative-fee-system-faces-mounting-antitrust-risk

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Last year my daughter had to file for the first time so I looked for something other than TurboTax.  I used FreeTaxUSA, which is an IRS approved e-file provider, to file her taxes. It was completely free and the interface was so much better than TurboTax that I will probably use it for my own taxes next year.  

Edited by CooterBrown
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22 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

You mentioned you are in the lender business (assuming a banker, but possibly mortgage?). I read an interesting bit today about the DOJ potentially doing away with the realtor commission as we've known it and Refin CEO saying he thinks that would put half the realtors on the street. That's a ton of people.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-16/us-realtors-lucrative-fee-system-faces-mounting-antitrust-risk

I'm a lender. 

That class action lawsuit is a beast. Many of the firms have already settled. I don't believe the NAR has, but maybe. If the DOJ gets involved, it could get interesting. I don't think any of it matters until people stop agreeing to it. Maybe this will be the catalyst. 

In Europe, people are cutthroat about negotiating. Realtor commissions are max 2%. Tipping isn't a thing for the most part. 

I think Americans have become so accustomed to giving away their money, but more and more, people are starting to be like, wait, I'm tipping you for counter service? Wtf? 

 

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40 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Last year my daughter had to file for the first time so I looked for something other than TurboTax.  I used FreeTaxUSA, which is an IRS approved e-file provider, to file her taxes. It was completely free and the interface was so much better than TurboTax that I will probably use it for my own taxes next year.  

When I got my first job in high school my dad just sent me to the local library to grab a paper 10-EZ form. I don't even think I made enough money to qualify as having to pay taxes but still had to report.

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4 hours ago, crash_davis said:

It's complicated because rich assholes want loopholes to get around paying taxes. It shouldn't be that hard.

Flat tax.  Let's go.

Oh damn...that hits people who pay no federal income tax.

Too bad.  Let's simplify.

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6 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Even tax pros use software (that is a hell of a lot more powerful and better than TT).  Congress is the reason tax filing is as complicated as it is.

This.   Many members of Congress think the tax code is the best way to manipulate behavior.  The rest think it's the best way to pay back big donors.  Both sides fucking suck, as does anyone who supports this shit.

 

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I smell poors...

 

Who is eligible for IRS Direct File in 2024

“To ensure a good experience for taxpayers, the pilot will launch in phases,” Laurel Blatchford, chief implementation officer for the Inflation Reduction Act at the U.S. Department of the Treasury said.

For 2024, the pilot will focus on individual filers with “relatively simple returns,” but not all taxpayers will qualify. The IRS expects the program to include Form W-2 earnings, Social Security income, unemployment income and interest of $1,500 or less.

The agency also plans to include filers claiming the earned income tax credit, child tax credit and credit for other dependents, along with the standard deduction, student loan interest deduction and tax break for educator expenses.

However, some taxpayers will be excluded during the first year of the pilot, Werfel said.

 

 

But seriously, doing taxes is a fucking beating. Everytime I hit submit, I have legit no idea whether the shit is right or not, just hoping that I didn't do anything to trigger a red flag for an audit. 

Edited by Anastasis
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5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Who pays no federal income tax?

About 35-40% of American households pay no federal income tax.   

Edited by slorch
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12 minutes ago, slorch said:

About 35-40% of American households pay no federal income tax.   

~40% for 2022 I believe, and quite a bit higher the two years before that.  I think that must have been a pandemic bump due to lost wages/jobs.   Somewhere around 10% don't bother to file at all.

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1 hour ago, BeardIP said:

Live pond today. The sun was blinding off this hook and yet you still caught a couple.

Ask a stupid question and get a simple answer.  I don't think anyone took whatever lame bait he was throwing.  Slorch merely earnestly answered his question.  If he was looking to poke holes in the flat tax comment, a more direct approach would have made more sense.  It's one of many ideas that sounds okay in theory but would never work in reality.  

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23 hours ago, BeardIP said:

When I got my first job in high school my dad just sent me to the local library to grab a paper 10-EZ form. I don't even think I made enough money to qualify as having to pay taxes but still had to report.

I filed when I was in jr. high and high schools but didn't need to taxwise.  All my employers back then withheld from my pay, so I had to file to get that witholding refunded.

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On 10/18/2023 at 4:50 AM, Keef said:

The IRS could do your taxes for you and then send you a completed return for you to sign off on or supplement as you think is necessary.  For the vast majority of Americans, they have all of your info - when you get a W-2, 1099, etc., the issuer has to send a copy to the IRS as well.  This has been proposed many times, only to be shut down by Intuit lobby.  

 

But then how are people going to cheat on their taxes?

 

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Here's another wrinkle for those that just want to have the IRS send you a bill for what the declare what you owe based upon all of the electronic data that has been sent to them about you:  

Venmo, The $600 Threshold, And You: What’s An (Honest) Taxpayer To Do?

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/venmo-600-threshold-and-you-whats-honest-taxpayer-do

As an example, say that you buy Longhorn season tickets for a group of your friends and they pay you back for their share of the cost through Venmo, PayPal, or Zelle.  Starting in 2024, that payment is going to be reported to the IRS on a Form 1099 that the IRS will assume to be income to you.  Good luck sorting all of that out with the IRS even under the current system, much less some kind of automated system where the IRS figures it all out for you automatically.

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31 minutes ago, slorch said:

What if it’s a gift?  On Paypal it’s always a gift…

definitions vary. 

That's exactly what I'm saying.  There is no way for the IRS to know the circumstances of the payment.  To them, a payment made to a taxpayer reported on a Form 1099 is going to be automatically classified as taxable income.

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