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CooterBrown

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7 hours ago, Speedtrucker said:

Jeesh episode 8 hurt…


 

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My wife was super pissed at the Hiromatsu scene… I just kept saying that’s going too far to convince a spy that you are submitting…. Heartbreaking scene

We were both saying damn that badass cold-blooded during the tea scene.
 

 

This show has been amazing

Does your wife remember what happened to his great-grandson?

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Does your wife remember what happened to his great-grandson?

Hah yes,


she just really liked his character in the show.

As did I, he was old school badass and had been some good comedy. “Lord Toronaga resigns… for personal reasons.” And the 9 whacks line when Toronaga was attempting to 2nd his adversary…

The grandson-in-law, great grandson part was impactful but so early we didn’t have emotional ties to them. That made Fuji’s pain and suffering and service tough.

 

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That was a good scene with the mama-san wading out in the muck imagining the world's first red light district.  And then the portuguese showing up to find out the land for their new church is right next door.

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Spoiler

I hope the showrunners are deviating from the novel to create a more climatic ending. The last 20% of the book are a slog. Toranga delays and plots , and everyone wonders what the hell he's thinking. Blackthorne is basically lost mentally, recovers some, and has one last verbal showdown. It picks up in the last couple chapters, but the book's climax occurs at the 75-80% mark. It's an odd way to construct a book, but Easter isn't the ending of The Bible. I'm sure Clavell's editors begged him to change/lengthen the ending, but he was a notorious prick. He probably told them to fuck off and publish it. I guess it worked out for everybody. 

 

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The Yabushige character is very perplexing. Throughout the entire series my views of him keep changing. He fluctuates between a total dick, bad ass, goofball, traitorous, a fun cool dude, but remains very likeable the entire time no matter what he does.

The kind of guy you want to party with but he's likely to leave you with the bill and then have you jumped in the parking lot afterwards.

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Terrific episode. The ninja attack was a little rushed, but no complaints. 
 

Spoiler

Mariko is a better fighter in the book than depicted on the show. She takes down a bunch of grays (Ishido’s men)when she attempts to leave Osaka. Exhaustion finally gets her to yield.

I know the show has budget constraints, but the ninja attack is a pretty long sequence in the book. The Browns (Toranga’s men) fight valiantly, but the ninjas are extremely skilled fighters and they got the drop on them. Blackthorne and Mariko are able to hold out for hours in the Toranaga panic room until they blow up the door and Mariko. The attack ends near dawn and all of Osaka knows about it in the morning. Using ninja is the most shameful thing a samurai can do, so Ishido is fucked politically. 

It might be too late in the show to address, but there are many questions about the heirs true parentage throughout the book. I’ll leave it there in hopes they get to it next week. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Terrific episode. The ninja attack was a little rushed, but no complaints. 
 

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Mariko is a better fighter in the book than depicted on the show. She takes down a bunch of grays (Ishido’s men)when she attempts to leave Osaka. Exhaustion finally gets her to yield.

I know the show has budget constraints, but the ninja attack is a pretty long sequence in the book. The Browns (Toranga’s men) fight valiantly, but the ninjas are extremely skilled fighters and they got the drop on them. Blackthorne and Mariko are able to hold out for hours in the Toranaga panic room until they blow up the door and Mariko. The attack ends near dawn and all of Osaka knows about it in the morning. Using ninja is the most shameful thing a samurai can do, so Ishido is fucked politically. 

It might be too late in the show to address, but there are many questions about the heirs true parentage throughout the book. I’ll leave it there in hopes they get to it next week. 

 

 

I haven't read the book, but I rewatched the 1980 one from when I was a kid (and hadn't seen it since) in the week before this premiered. The older adaptation treated the scene similarly to this newer one. Thanks for the additional background.

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2 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Peak Kim Basinger is seducing Garth into killing her husband if memory serves me correctly. 

I did not know until now that there was a Wayne's World 2.

 

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Posted (edited)

Another hope for next week. 
 

Spoiler

I hope there are a couple flashbacks in the finale. In the book prior to the Taiko’s death, a Chinese soothsayer visits Osaka and tells the key players their fortunes. Let’s just say her accuracy is up there with Maggy the Frog. 

The payoff is awesome in the book’s final pages. Probably the lone highlight of the Clavell’s ending. 

 

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Terrific episode. The ninja attack was a little rushed, but no complaints. 
 
Spoiler

Mariko is a better fighter in the book than depicted on the show. She takes down a bunch of grays (Ishido’s men)when she attempts to leave Osaka. Exhaustion finally gets her to yield.
I know the show has budget constraints, but the ninja attack is a pretty long sequence in the book. The Browns (Toranga’s men) fight valiantly, but the ninjas are extremely skilled fighters and they got the drop on them. Blackthorne and Mariko are able to hold out for hours in the Toranaga panic room until they blow up the door and Mariko. The attack ends near dawn and all of Osaka knows about it in the morning. Using ninja is the most shameful thing a samurai can do, so Ishido is fucked politically. 
It might be too late in the show to address, but there are many questions about the heirs true parentage throughout the book. I’ll leave it there in hopes they get to it next week. 
 

 



No, the book plays out almost exactly like the show. She doesn't take down any grays. She picks up a sword and attacks but the samurai keeps parrying until she gets tired and quits.
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I was dreading this episode, holding out hope the story runners changed Mariko's ending. Of all the things to stay faithful to the script...

I wish they'd had the time and desire to flesh out anjin and Mariko's relationship. They completely skipped the journey from Anjiro to Osaka. They didn't have any of the intimate conversations held in Latin only for their ears. There's a significant layer missing in the story without that context.

The treatment (obliteration) of Dell'Aqua's storyline is odd to me. They might as well not have put him in the show and used the time devoted to the black ship instead on making the romance more believable.

 

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3 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

 

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I was dreading this episode, holding out hope the story runners changed Mariko's ending. Of all the things to stay faithful to the script...

I wish they'd had the time and desire to flesh out anjin and Mariko's relationship. They completely skipped the journey from Anjiro to Osaka. They didn't have any of the intimate conversations held in Latin only for their ears. There's a significant layer missing in the story without that context.

The treatment (obliteration) of Dell'Aqua's storyline is odd to me. They might as well not have put him in the show and used the time devoted to the black ship instead on making the romance more believable.

 

Regarding the second paragraph, this. But they’d have to film an additional episode most likely.

I think the showrunners wanted to keep it very succinct at 10 episodes. More likely they were given a 10 episode budget. 

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Quote

Leaving for where, Mariko?

[Mariko] To meet our liege lord in Edo.

He has requested I escort them myself.

He…

Toranaga will be here in a few weeks, as you said.

It’s been months since the Lady Shizu has seen Lord Toranaga.

And my lord hasn’t yet seen his newest son.

they never covered this son of toranaga, did they?

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I always thought ninjas were a Chinese thing, not a Japanese thing.  Just me?

Shinobi were Japanese.

Considered the dishonorable way by samurai since their roles was usually covert and mercenary in nature. Also their whole premise was to work in secrecy
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Just now, kingkoopa6 said:

what was the tapping on the shoulders? 
 

seal team ninja code talk ?

IDK I thought it was a form of keeping track of timing of the mission.  I wondered about that too

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1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

they never covered this son of toranaga, did they?

As Ishido stated on the show, Toranaga has other sons. Naga was his fourth son in the books.

I believe the newborn boy is actually Toranaga’s first grandchild in the books. 

Toranga’s eldest son is his carbon copy and heir. He’s barely in the book and only appears in the final couple chapters. I don’t expect him to be on the show. 

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1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

they never covered this son of toranaga, did they?

did mariko say son or grandson? ochiba's sister was giving birth to a baby at the beginning of the show and ochiba was visiting her, which is why ishido feared ochiba was being held hostage in edo. ochiba's sister is married to toranaga's oldest son.  

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19 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

did mariko say son or grandson? ochiba's sister was giving birth to a baby at the beginning of the show and ochiba was visiting her, which is why ishido feared ochiba was being held hostage in edo. ochiba's sister is married to toranaga's oldest son.  

I thought they said son, and the camera panned to Ochiba making the surprised face, so I thought it was some weird suggestion of tryst (weird because she hates his guts), or otherwise some provocation towards her

It was difficult to sort out who's who from the first few episodes because she show seemed to not want to waste screentime pandering to slowfolk like me. 

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1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

I thought they said son, and the camera panned to Ochiba making the surprised face, so I thought it was some weird suggestion of tryst (weird because she hates his guts), or otherwise some provocation towards her

It was difficult to sort out who's who from the first few episodes because she show seemed to not want to waste screentime pandering to slowfolk like me. 

i'll have to go back and rewatch it.  i assumed she said son.  

 

i still have trouble telling them apart.  especially ishido, i can never tell if it's him or someone else. 

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So i has the confuse in regards to the last scene.  

 

Yabushi kills guard.  Sees the grapple hooks.  Opens door and ninjas appear and do not kill him.  He kills other guard.  Ninjas are everywhere at this point.   Then he runs into rooms alerting everyone.  Then he runs off with Mariko and crew.   

I assumed he was in on the attack if he is killing guards and not getting killed by ninjas, but why run off with the targets? 

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5 minutes ago, Mac8111 said:

So i has the confuse in regards to the last scene.  

 

Yabushi kills guard.  Sees the grapple hooks.  Opens door and ninjas appear and do not kill him.  He kills other guard.  Ninjas are everywhere at this point.   Then he runs into rooms alerting everyone.  Then he runs off with Mariko and crew.   

I assumed he was in on the attack if he is killing guards and not getting killed by ninjas, but why run off with the targets? 

Gotta make it look good to Toranaga’s surviving men because of course they’re going to report back to him. 

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