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Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?


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3 minutes ago, NoName said:

why would i want something that was useful when i could have this?

tesla-cybertruck-frunk-source-tesla-cybe

 

 

In 1989, a dumbass ran a stopsign and wrecked my car.  His insurance provided me with a free rental till I got a replacement.  A 1989 Chevy Cavalier.  To this day, the shittiest car I have ever driven:

3a58c395-0ecb-479e-b87c-7756e36e1e56.JPG

Every single feature showed a piss-poor attention to detail.  The fit on the doors was shit, wide gap at the top, actually caught the frame at the bottom.  To use the key to open the driver's side door, you had to slide it in just right, then jiggle it.  The steering wheel bent, and had a shitty mount.  The seats were just shitty benches bolted on.  And the trunk....was an afterthought.  Just a rectangular space, flatbottomed the whole way through, and so shallow, you couldn't even fit a damned regular igloo cooler in there.  Every piece of it said "half-assed."

In short, it was clearly the cybertruck of its day.

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https://jalopnik.com/if-you-bought-a-tesla-one-year-ago-it-has-lost-as-much-1851011677

 

Quote

“Buying a car today is an investment into the future. I think the most profound thing is that if you buy a Tesla today, I believe you are buying an appreciating asset, not a depreciating asset.” Elon Musk said that in 2019, and like many of his bold vision statements, has continually been proven wrong every minute of every day since. Hundreds of thousands of Tesla buyers have driven tens of thousands of dollars of value out of their cars.

 

Quote

The world’s most successful electric automaker has been completely dicking over its customers for the last year by dramatically dropping prices across the board. Hundreds of thousands of Tesla cars all over the country, and indeed the world, have completely tanked in value. After a continual upward trend in pricing across 2022, the ostensibly Texas-based company has been dropping prices left and right in 2023 in attempts to keep demand for new vehicles high.

 

Quote

Tesla buyers have been feeling the pinch as they watched the brand new price of their second-most expensive asset get squeezed. As a result of the new prices coming down—and new incentives being introduced for which they were not eligible—used prices have tanked and these buyers are more upside-down in their cars than previously thought possible. A new Model X Dual Motor buyer today is paying $41,000 less than someone who bought the same car this time last year.

 

Let’s Do Some Math

Spoiler

I wanted a rough idea of the value lost in all those Teslas. So I did some math. I wanted to know not only how much Tesla has driven value out of their cars, but the owners as well. How much could be attributed to the drop in new car prices, but also how much of a price drop could be settled through regular daily use, too. Using some national searches from CarGurus and AutoTempest, I went looking for 2023 model year cars with fewer than 10,000 miles, clean titles, and no recorded use as a rental car. Just regular cars with regular miles. CarGurus has a nice tool that tells you if a price is fair based on its calculations of the market, and AutoTempest can search multiple sources at once and provide links to the cheapest examples in the country. Both of these tools are helpful!

Mega Depreciation
Let’s start with that Model X Dual Motor. As the most expensive Tesla, the X has a lot more to lose than the others. At the end of October, 2022, the cheapest Model X was $120,990, and that same car today is $79,990. According to CarGurus, a used 2023 model year car without too many miles is still basically worth what a new Model X is worth, presumably because there’s no wait time for the factory to deliver. The current wait time on a new X is two to three months, so maybe this makes sense if you need it now. The lowest price I could find nationally was $71,995, which seems like a good deal. That’s over $49,000 less than it cost new, and eight grand less than a new one ordered today.

A Model S Dual Motor is pretty similar to its X counterpart. It was originally $104,990, and the price has dropped precipitously to just $74,990 today. CarGurus says a used 2023 is worth around $71,000, but the least expensive example I could find was just $68,986. Bought one year ago, this seller is prepared to lose at least $36,000 for the privilege.

How about the less expensive and more popular Teslas? The Model Y is the best selling EV in history, and is constantly shifting new units. A year ago a new Model Y Long Range AWD cost $65,990, but today it’ll run you just $48,990, [and the recently-introduced Model Y RWD is $5,000 fewer still]. CarGurus says an average Model Y Long Range AWD is $46,000 on the used market, while I found the lowest priced example was $43,165, accounting for a loss of at least $22,825.

Model 3 depreciation has typically been a bit lower than the others, largely because it is the cheapest entry point to the Tesla lineup, and as a result is still in pretty high demand. The rear-wheel-drive Model 3 was available last year, so we’ll work our estimate off of that one, and it cost a whopping $46,990 a year ago. Tesla has dropped that price to just $38,990 since, and used 2023 model year cars are still selling for $37,000. There are a few examples selling under $30,000, including this potentially desperate seller, asking just $28,499.

5f833e48951c0e068d28d7aafea74406.jpg

 

To recap, a Tesla Model X Dual Motor buyer in early November 2022 is now looking at an average of $41,000 loss if they were to sell their car. The good news is, they could basically sell it and immediately turn around and buy another one brand new today. Faced with the same scenario, a Model S Dual Motor owner is looking at losing about $34,000, a Model Y Dual Motor Long Range owner would lose about $20,000, and a Model 3 RWD owner is hacking $10,000 out of their net worth.

More Math!
Keep in mind that this doesn’t account for finance interest, taxes, title fees, licensing fees, insurance, electricity, maintenance, or insurance costs. So let’s dig into that!

Sales tax is going to vary based on where you live, by state and city. For example, where I live sales tax is eight percent, so on a base Model X last year I’d have paid an extra $9,679.20 in sales tax. Title and license fees is another $50 for the year. Insurance, according to Nerd Wallet, is pretty expensive at $3,861 annually on average for a Model X.

We’re going to assume that I paid the sales tax plus the 20 percent down on the Model X in cash, and financed the rest. That’s a $24,198 cash payment, and $96,792 financed. According to Statista, average new car loan terms in November 2022 were around 6.05 percent APR. We’re going to assume that I scored a 72 month loan, and that would put my monthly payment at $1,606.41.

Let’s say I drove 10,000 miles in that year, and I pay 9.6 cents per kWh for electricity service. Most of the time I’m using this hypothetical Model X for commuting, but will occasionally drive long distances and rely on the Tesla charging network, say a quarter of the miles. Tesla throws in charging for the first three years on a Model X sale, so we’re only really paying for 7,500 miles worth of electricity. The EPA rates the Model X at 33kWh/100 miles, meaning I used approximately 2,475 kWh to drive that 7,500 miles, and paid about $237.60 in electricity to charge up at home.

At the end of twelve months with the car, I have paid $57,302.72 to own it and insure it. Unfortunately the outstanding balance on my Model X loan is $82,993, and Tesla just dropped the price of a new Model X to $79,990. Even if I can get the $80,000 price that CarGurus says I can, I’m still almost $60,000 in the hole to own this car for a year. Yikes.

Obviously buying a new car is almost always going to be a money losing proposition. Elon might have convinced some people that buying a new Tesla would get them an appreciating asset, but that was a lie then and it remains a lie today. If you’re looking for a way to make best use of your money, don’t buy a new car, and don’t listen to the world’s richest man.

 

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4 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://jalopnik.com/if-you-bought-a-tesla-one-year-ago-it-has-lost-as-much-1851011677

 

 

 

 

Let’s Do Some Math

  Reveal hidden contents

I wanted a rough idea of the value lost in all those Teslas. So I did some math. I wanted to know not only how much Tesla has driven value out of their cars, but the owners as well. How much could be attributed to the drop in new car prices, but also how much of a price drop could be settled through regular daily use, too. Using some national searches from CarGurus and AutoTempest, I went looking for 2023 model year cars with fewer than 10,000 miles, clean titles, and no recorded use as a rental car. Just regular cars with regular miles. CarGurus has a nice tool that tells you if a price is fair based on its calculations of the market, and AutoTempest can search multiple sources at once and provide links to the cheapest examples in the country. Both of these tools are helpful!

Mega Depreciation
Let’s start with that Model X Dual Motor. As the most expensive Tesla, the X has a lot more to lose than the others. At the end of October, 2022, the cheapest Model X was $120,990, and that same car today is $79,990. According to CarGurus, a used 2023 model year car without too many miles is still basically worth what a new Model X is worth, presumably because there’s no wait time for the factory to deliver. The current wait time on a new X is two to three months, so maybe this makes sense if you need it now. The lowest price I could find nationally was $71,995, which seems like a good deal. That’s over $49,000 less than it cost new, and eight grand less than a new one ordered today.

A Model S Dual Motor is pretty similar to its X counterpart. It was originally $104,990, and the price has dropped precipitously to just $74,990 today. CarGurus says a used 2023 is worth around $71,000, but the least expensive example I could find was just $68,986. Bought one year ago, this seller is prepared to lose at least $36,000 for the privilege.

How about the less expensive and more popular Teslas? The Model Y is the best selling EV in history, and is constantly shifting new units. A year ago a new Model Y Long Range AWD cost $65,990, but today it’ll run you just $48,990, [and the recently-introduced Model Y RWD is $5,000 fewer still]. CarGurus says an average Model Y Long Range AWD is $46,000 on the used market, while I found the lowest priced example was $43,165, accounting for a loss of at least $22,825.

Model 3 depreciation has typically been a bit lower than the others, largely because it is the cheapest entry point to the Tesla lineup, and as a result is still in pretty high demand. The rear-wheel-drive Model 3 was available last year, so we’ll work our estimate off of that one, and it cost a whopping $46,990 a year ago. Tesla has dropped that price to just $38,990 since, and used 2023 model year cars are still selling for $37,000. There are a few examples selling under $30,000, including this potentially desperate seller, asking just $28,499.

5f833e48951c0e068d28d7aafea74406.jpg

 

To recap, a Tesla Model X Dual Motor buyer in early November 2022 is now looking at an average of $41,000 loss if they were to sell their car. The good news is, they could basically sell it and immediately turn around and buy another one brand new today. Faced with the same scenario, a Model S Dual Motor owner is looking at losing about $34,000, a Model Y Dual Motor Long Range owner would lose about $20,000, and a Model 3 RWD owner is hacking $10,000 out of their net worth.

More Math!
Keep in mind that this doesn’t account for finance interest, taxes, title fees, licensing fees, insurance, electricity, maintenance, or insurance costs. So let’s dig into that!

Sales tax is going to vary based on where you live, by state and city. For example, where I live sales tax is eight percent, so on a base Model X last year I’d have paid an extra $9,679.20 in sales tax. Title and license fees is another $50 for the year. Insurance, according to Nerd Wallet, is pretty expensive at $3,861 annually on average for a Model X.

We’re going to assume that I paid the sales tax plus the 20 percent down on the Model X in cash, and financed the rest. That’s a $24,198 cash payment, and $96,792 financed. According to Statista, average new car loan terms in November 2022 were around 6.05 percent APR. We’re going to assume that I scored a 72 month loan, and that would put my monthly payment at $1,606.41.

Let’s say I drove 10,000 miles in that year, and I pay 9.6 cents per kWh for electricity service. Most of the time I’m using this hypothetical Model X for commuting, but will occasionally drive long distances and rely on the Tesla charging network, say a quarter of the miles. Tesla throws in charging for the first three years on a Model X sale, so we’re only really paying for 7,500 miles worth of electricity. The EPA rates the Model X at 33kWh/100 miles, meaning I used approximately 2,475 kWh to drive that 7,500 miles, and paid about $237.60 in electricity to charge up at home.

At the end of twelve months with the car, I have paid $57,302.72 to own it and insure it. Unfortunately the outstanding balance on my Model X loan is $82,993, and Tesla just dropped the price of a new Model X to $79,990. Even if I can get the $80,000 price that CarGurus says I can, I’m still almost $60,000 in the hole to own this car for a year. Yikes.

Obviously buying a new car is almost always going to be a money losing proposition. Elon might have convinced some people that buying a new Tesla would get them an appreciating asset, but that was a lie then and it remains a lie today. If you’re looking for a way to make best use of your money, don’t buy a new car, and don’t listen to the world’s richest man.

 

Counterpoint: math is a woke mind virus, and Elon is a superbrain genius.  POINT AWARDED TO ELON.

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How long ago was it that Muskovy was talking about how they'd be soon pumping out high production of the cybertruck? Now they're so worried about a highly limited supply, Tesla is forcing buyers to sign an agreement that they won't sell the vehicle for a year after taking delivery, and that exceptions may be granted as Tesla sees fit and repurchased by Tesla at a price they will establish. The only precedent this has in automobiles is in extremely high end and very limited production runs. 

 

bafkreibugz43toesb5pcul7l6ie2f26hyvwmy2l

image.png.c6f049e94c810337102f43b94a01c2cf.png

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14 hours ago, Chopper said:

Tesla is forcing buyers to sign an agreement that they won't sell the vehicle for a year after taking delivery, and that exceptions may be granted as Tesla sees fit and repurchased by Tesla at a price they will establish.

I thought the Elmo fanbois said he was all about freedoms and stuff.

Sure Jan GIF

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On 11/10/2023 at 6:14 AM, Captainant said:

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/spacex-musk-safety/

Seems like SpaceX isn't really taking care of their employees. Completely unsurprising, but the scale of unreported deaths and injuries is shocking. Reuters found >600 previously unreported incidents.

 

Since LeBlanc’s death in June 2014, which hasn’t been previously reported, Musk’s rocket company has disregarded worker-safety regulations and standard practices at its inherently dangerous rocket and satellite facilities nationwide, with workers paying a heavy price, a Reuters investigation found. Through interviews and government records, the news organization documented at least 600 injuries of SpaceX workers since 2014.

Many were serious or disabling. The records included reports of more than 100 workers suffering cuts or lacerations, 29 with broken bones or dislocations, 17 whose hands or fingers were “crushed,” and nine with head injuries, including one skull fracture, four concussions and one traumatic brain injury. The cases also included five burns, five electrocutions, eight accidents that led to amputations, 12 injuries involving multiple unspecified body parts, and seven workers with eye injuries. Others were relatively minor, including more than 170 reports of strains or sprains.

Current and former employees said such injuries reflect a chaotic workplace where often under-trained and overtired staff routinely skipped basic safety procedures as they raced to meet Musk’s aggressive deadlines for space missions. SpaceX, founded by Musk more than two decades ago, takes the stance that workers are responsible for protecting themselves, according to more than a dozen current and former employees, including a former senior executive.

Musk himself at times appeared cavalier about safety on visits to SpaceX sites: Four employees said he sometimes played with a novelty flamethrower and discouraged workers from wearing safety yellow because he dislikes bright colors.

...

One severe injury in January 2022 resulted from a series of safety failures that illustrate systemic problems at SpaceX, according to eight former SpaceX employees familiar with the accident. In that case, a part flew off during pressure testing of a Raptor V2 rocket engine – fracturing the skull of employee Francisco Cabada and putting him in a coma.

The sources told Reuters that senior managers at the Hawthorne, California site were repeatedly warned about the dangers of rushing the engine’s development, along with inadequate training of staff and testing of components. The part that failed and struck the worker had a flaw that was discovered, but not fixed, before the testing, two of the employees said.

Jesus.  Should be shut down

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1 hour ago, Chopper said:

 

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

FrEE spEeCH ABsoluTiSt!!!!!!

 

Musk took the MM scene from A Time To Kill - you know, the one with the speech "now imagine she's white" and applied it to twitter to "own the libs." 

He had the "Twitter Files" b.s. that accused old Twitter of shadow bans, etc. against conservative voices, and instead of saying it won't happen at all, just started applying it to voices critical of Elon (who are going to be more left-leaning/progressive).

So, instead of "now imagine she's white," it's "now, imagine Twitter is using these tools to own the Libs"

Or really, I guess it's along the line of "What's good for the goose is good for the gander."

Either way, it's not free speech, it's settling grudges. 

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/bethkindig/2023/11/09/tesla-sells-33-of-vehicles-below-average-cost-byd-pulls-ahead/?sh=6495c41215c2
 

BYD more than doubled Tesla’s China sales in October as Tesla’s sales slipped on a month-over-month basis, while NEV startups showed strong sales numbers across the board. China’s new energy vehicle (NEV) industry continues to exhibit solid momentum, with September seeing NEV sales rise about +22% YoY and October estimated to see around +34% YoY growth. As a whole, China is expected to once again be the primary driver of global EV sales this year, with volumes forecast to reach or exceed 8.5 million units, or more than 60% of the projected 14 million global volume.

 

Tesla has been in the spotlight recently — its margins have contracted significantly over the past few quarters as it prioritizes price cuts. China is Tesla’s most important market as it currently represents the highest remaining total addressable market (TAM), therefore the recent weakness is not something to ignore, especially as domestic rivals pick up their pace of growth.

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1 hour ago, Chopper said:

36" bed?

image.thumb.png.fac3a6123f96ee69f18332c718416f32.png

It's as if a Subaru Brat, a Delorean, and a 5 year old's drawing that Maddox made fun of on his webpage back in the day, all got together and had the most hideous deformed and useless baby you could imagine.

It's not a car.  It's not a truck.  It improves on zero functions of either a car or a truck.  It's A WORK OF PURE GENIUS!

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5 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

Don't malign the Brat in such a manner. 

Knew a guy who almost bought one used many years ago.  Seller was exactly what you'd expect.  Showed him the "feature" of a plastic disk on the steering wheel popping off to reveal a hollow spot, which was "the perfect place to keep your weed."

Respek.

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

It's as if a Subaru Brat, a Delorean, and a 5 year old's drawing that Maddox made fun of on his webpage back in the day, all got together and had the most hideous deformed and useless baby you could imagine.

It's not a car.  It's not a truck.  It improves on zero functions of either a car or a truck.  It's A WORK OF PURE GENIUS!

The debate has moved to, if you took both wheels off the bicycle would the frame fit in the bed of the CIDERFRUKK or nahhh?
edit to add back the photo

Spoiler


image.thumb.png.a30cbd6675a4dd1dcb285188148dcf67.png

 

Edited by Chopper
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So is that piece of shit going to be sold with the custom rubber seen on these prototypes or just a generic tire? I can't imagine how bland it will look without those tires matching up to the wheel cover things. I also can't imagine paying to replace one off tires that you'd have to go through Tesla to get. 

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Jesus, I saw a cybertruck for the first time last night on 360, and it's even worse than the pictures indicate.  I don't think I had seen a photo of the thing at night, but it's headlight configuration is completely absurd.  It's just one long lightbar on the top of the (non-existent) grill and then two little lights down where fog lamps might ordinarily be.

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9 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Jesus, I saw a cybertruck for the first time last night on 360, and it's even worse than the pictures indicate.  I don't think I had seen a photo of the thing at night, but it's headlight configuration is completely absurd.  It's just one long lightbar on the top of the (non-existent) grill and then two little lights down where fog lamps might ordinarily be.

Probably the same one I've seen.   They are smaller than I thought (as illustrated by the photo with the bicycle above) and not that tall.

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14 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Jesus, I saw a cybertruck for the first time last night on 360, and it's even worse than the pictures indicate.  I don't think I had seen a photo of the thing at night, but it's headlight configuration is completely absurd.  It's just one long lightbar on the top of the (non-existent) grill and then two little lights down where fog lamps might ordinarily be.

Did @Guadaloopyget a sweet new ride?

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4 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

Deny The Office GIF

Never been a fan of the Cybertruck.  At all.  Still more than happy with my Model 3. 

I do have a good friend who is super-fooked because he has five Cybertrucks on early pre-order and now cannot resell them.

Apparently, the "no flip" language has now been removed from the vehicle order agreement.  My friend is keeping his pre-orders and just got his invitation to the delivery event. 

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