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Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]


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3 hours ago, Treefidy said:

Don't forget at the cotton bowl the announcers actually said Grinch instructed his DBs to hold our receivers and make the officials call it.  It's actually sound game theory, the officials won't throw flags every down and if you set the precedent then they will likely only call the most egregious fouls.  

And we have tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber coaching our team.  Hey coaches, pull your head out of your ass so you can go fuck yourself.  

not to derail too much but we get called for holding on running plays all the fucking time.  we had 2 that brought back big gains again against TCU.  even the announcers weren't sure it was holding.  so we get called when we might be trying to bend the rules a bit on a running play but OU can hold(and by that I mean choke hold) all fucking day long on passing and running plays with no call.  those kind of calls are just drive killers with this offense.

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19 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

he had mcneal is the key.  Herman has no such option, whether by design or by sheer stupidity.

McNeill was not a sure thing.  He coached some poor defenses previously, including at Tech.  He was also fired from East Carolina as Head Coach.  His resume was no more sterling than some of the guys we have in waiting.  Riley just had the balls to know what wasn't working and to take a chance.

Edited by nunna yo bizness
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4 minutes ago, nunna yo bizness said:

McNeill was not a sure thing.  He coached some poor defenses previously, including at Tech.  He was also fired from East Carolina as Head Coach.  His resume was no more sterling than some of the guys we have in waiting.  Riley just had the balls to know what wasn't working and to take a chance.

mcneil had called a defense for a P5 team in a P5 conf.  it was only for the interim, he was never getting the gig full time. I'm not saying he's good I'm just saying Riley had an option for an interim on the staff.

We have no such option currently on the staff.  its Orlando for the rest of the year.

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12 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

not to derail too much but we get called for holding on running plays all the fucking time.  we had 2 that brought back big gains again against TCU.  even the announcers weren't sure it was holding.  so we get called when we might be trying to bend the rules a bit on a running play but OU can hold(and by that I mean choke hold) all fucking day long on passing and running plays with no call.  those kind of calls are just drive killers with this offense.

Because unlike OU we don't coach our guys how to hold and how to do it without geting caught.  And that's an indictment of our coaching, not OU.  Tech used to do the same thing all the time and never get called.  Not coincidentally Leach came from the Stoops coaching tree.  If you can condition the refs to accept it from your guys then why not do it?

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19 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

mcneil had called a defense for a P5 team in a P5 conf.  it was only for the interim, he was never getting the gig full time. I'm not saying he's good I'm just saying Riley had an option for an interim on the staff.

We have no such option currently on the staff.  its Orlando for the rest of the year.

I'm not saying he's a guaranteed winner or that he should be anything other than interim, but we have Chris Ash on hand, who according to his history has called defense for P5 schools in P5 conferences.  Like McNeill he's been a head coach and been fired.  Like McNeill some of the defenses he coached weren't so great.  You make it sound like McNiell was a slam dunk improvement, but he didn't even get to keep the job after the end of season.  Nonetheless, Riley saw what he had was shit and was willing to take a chance on a questionable commodity in hopes of improvement.

So maybe Ash doesn't turn out to be any good.  What's the risk?  That we go from having the worst P5 defense to having the worst P5 defense?  On the other hand there's actually a chance we might improve.

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12 minutes ago, nunna yo bizness said:

I'm not saying he's a guaranteed winner or that he should be anything other than interim, but we have Chris Ash on hand, who according to his history has called defense for P5 schools in P5 conferences.  Like McNeill he's been a head coach and been fired.  Like McNeill some of the defenses he coached weren't so great.  You make it sound like McNiell was a slam dunk improvement, but he didn't even get to keep the job after the end of season.  Nonetheless, Riley saw what he had was shit and was willing to take a chance on a questionable commodity in hopes of improvement.

So maybe Ash doesn't turn out to be any good.  What's the risk?  That we go from having the worst P5 defense to having the worst P5 defense?  On the other hand there's actually a chance we might improve.

I am talking about an actual asst coach on the staff.  Ash is an analyst.  I never made is sound like McNeil was an improvement at all.  you are reading things that aren't there.  i said he had actually called a defense in P5.  mcneil was never going to get the gig and Riley had probably already targeted Grinch.  

my point is Herman had no plan.  Riley did.  herman's potential fix(Ash) wasn't even available until the end of Sept.

Herman is a poor manager of assistants which is a HUGE part of the job.

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Because unlike OU we don't coach our guys how to hold and how to do it without geting caught.  And that's an indictment of our coaching, not OU.  Tech used to do the same thing all the time and never get called.  Not coincidentally Leach came from the Stoops coaching tree.  If you can condition the refs to accept it from your guys then why not do it?

Leach isn’t from the stoops tree. For fucks sake, he was there a year.
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What would another “Rout 66” do to change the discussion?   Reading back on that dark moment, some of the same chatter about John Mackovic sounds almost like some of the stuff being said about Mensa.  We were ranked and had some high hopes going into the 1997 season and the the shit hit the fan and we ended 4-7.   We did beat OU sux, but lost to aggy and got whooped by Colorado and Okie State.  

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2 hours ago, dcar00 said:

not to derail too much but we get called for holding on running plays all the fucking time.  we had 2 that brought back big gains again against TCU.  even the announcers weren't sure it was holding.  so we get called when we might be trying to bend the rules a bit on a running play but OU can hold(and by that I mean choke hold) all fucking day long on passing and running plays with no call.  those kind of calls are just drive killers with this offense.

It's because the Big XII is rigged -- refs are out to get Texas.  We already have a thread on that.  

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14 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

Ballou thinks you guys are acting like 2 yr olds. Real fans wouldn't question a team with negative punt yards, more missed tackles than anyone in the country, and the worst defense in program history. 

 

I was told the Austin media is very hard on Texas coaches and not charmin soft.  What a crock of shit.

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16 hours ago, tbone_ said:

I totally get that and agree. I’m just saying the amount is a straw man argument. Doesn’t matter if it’s $100K, $1M or $100M, none of us are paying.

 

Either he’s doing the job or he isn’t.

 

Yeah, I get tired of the salary mentions.  It's the going rate at a place like UT.  Either they are satisfying the criteria or they aren't, but quoting their salary isn't adding to the discussion.  

Would it be ok if they were just making $50k/year? Nope badger.

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Because unlike OU we don't coach our guys how to hold and how to do it without geting caught.  And that's an indictment of our coaching, not OU.  Tech used to do the same thing all the time and never get called.  Not coincidentally Leach came from the Stoops coaching tree.  If you can condition the refs to accept it from your guys then why not do it?

I believe they were called for holding quite a bit, just not when playing Texas. The choke hold on Orakpo not being called wasn’t due to superior coaching.
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On 10/28/2019 at 5:16 PM, Lobo said:

Somebody take  coach Herman and his staff the short 1500 yard walk from dKR to the ransom Center.  If they get confused, remind them that distance is about what their scheme gives up every two games.....

 

 

1500 yards is almost a mile. If the D gets any worse, we may have to begin measuring performance in miles per game.

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On 10/27/2019 at 10:04 PM, ztejas said:

Winning in spite of 4 picks from our quarterback is not a luxury we have with our current roster on defense. There are very few teams that have that luxury. 

I guess you can blame part of it on the play-calling but Sam was not good yesterday. He contributed as much to the loss as anyone else did, and I can't with a straight face blame it on the coaching when he came into the game with just 3 picks all year. 

If our D coord. isn't a waste of salary and we have a remotely healthy secondary and Sam plays well we win that game by 20 points. 

OU lost with a -2 on turnovers.  ISU lost with a -2 on turnovers.

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On 10/27/2019 at 8:56 PM, Jkwellborn said:


The shit being trotted out on defense and special teams right now is literally worse than anything strong sent out.

Its pretty bad.  But you don't seem to remember just how bad Strong's D and ST were.

And its one year, not 3 straight.

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4 minutes ago, bullet said:

Its pretty bad.  But you don't seem to remember just how bad Strong's D and ST were.

And its one year, not 3 straight.

Well, it's statistically the worst defense in the history of Texas football, so by definition they are worse than they were under strong.

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On 10/27/2019 at 9:14 PM, Dr. Beeper said:

‘94 shouldn’t count and you know it. ‘90 and ‘95 we were exposed as frauds on a national level.  ‘96 - we were not a good team, and got lucky as fuck to win. 

96 was a really talented team.  They just underperformed.  There were two future NFL rushing champs in that backfield-and neither was considered the most talented back-Shon Mitchel was.  They whipped an outstanding Nebraska team from one of the greatest 4 year runs in history (94-97 NU).

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On 10/28/2019 at 12:43 PM, texashorn13 said:

Straight out of the lockerroom actually.  I was talking to someone yesterday about the game and how the team took it, and followed up with a question about Brennan Eagles.  All of the info I gave was in the answer about Eagles.  I was also told that several players have been pleaded with to not enter the portal, and as I said, there are a few who are thinking about redshirting this year to save a year of eligibility to enter the portal with.  I was told that the biggest problem in the lockerroom is that what Herman preaches is not what's being practiced.  From Herman --> Coaches --> Players there is a lack in execution of expectations.  Some players are required to follow them, some are not.  Some coaches hold their groups accountable, some don't.

I wrote about this in the Row The Boat thread.  Bag on Fleck if you want, but the guy has a vision for his program, sets the standards and expects people to follow.  He doesn't coach any particular unit, but instead motivates all of them.  Herman seems to want to have his hand in every group, while trying to run the offense, while trying to be the Head Coach, at a University where just being the Head Coach is grossly time demanding.  He needs to focus on being great at one thing (the thing we hired him for) instead of half-assing everything.  He can start by getting rid of the dead weight coaches who can't or won't follow his expectations.  I was told once that "great head coaches hire assistants who are better than them, or who push them to be better."  The problem with Herman is his own self-inflated ego and mindset that he's already the greatest thing in the room.

One of Charlie's failings.  He seemed scared to hire anyone even near as good as himself.

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22 hours ago, dcar00 said:

not to derail too much but we get called for holding on running plays all the fucking time.  we had 2 that brought back big gains again against TCU.  even the announcers weren't sure it was holding.  so we get called when we might be trying to bend the rules a bit on a running play but OU can hold(and by that I mean choke hold) all fucking day long on passing and running plays with no call.  those kind of calls are just drive killers with this offense.

Don't think that's just us.  Big 12 does not call holding on passing plays but loves to call it on running plays.

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15 minutes ago, bullet said:

96 was a really talented team.  They just underperformed.  There were two future NFL rushing champs in that backfield-and neither was considered the most talented back-Shon Mitchel was.  They whipped an outstanding Nebraska team from one of the greatest 4 year runs in history (94-97 NU).

Yeah, calling out that '96 team makes no sense at all.  They had some underachieving lapses during the season but beating that Nebraska team and winning the B12 was no fluke.  That was a bad-ass performance on the big-time stage.

 

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2 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:


Does record setting bad mean something different where you live? I don’t recall Texas having negative fucking return yards in my life for a season either.

Compare the last 3 years to Strong's.  Its probably about the same.  Both bad.

Compare the other side-kicking and return defense.  It is infinitely better than Strong's.

Hermann's 1st two defenses were infinitely better than Strong's.  We knew this year we had inexperience and little depth on D.  We had no difference maker on the line.  So we get no pass rush.  Poona and Malik made the rest of the defense better.  We've had the whole secondary out with injuries.  We've got two good examples and one awful one, not 3 awful ones.

 

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On 10/28/2019 at 11:43 AM, texashorn13 said:

Straight out of the lockerroom actually.  I was talking to someone yesterday about the game and how the team took it, and followed up with a question about Brennan Eagles.  All of the info I gave was in the answer about Eagles.  I was also told that several players have been pleaded with to not enter the portal, and as I said, there are a few who are thinking about redshirting this year to save a year of eligibility to enter the portal with.  I was told that the biggest problem in the lockerroom is that what Herman preaches is not what's being practiced.  From Herman --> Coaches --> Players there is a lack in execution of expectations.  Some players are required to follow them, some are not.  Some coaches hold their groups accountable, some don't.

I wrote about this in the Row The Boat thread.  Bag on Fleck if you want, but the guy has a vision for his program, sets the standards and expects people to follow.  He doesn't coach any particular unit, but instead motivates all of them.  Herman seems to want to have his hand in every group, while trying to run the offense, while trying to be the Head Coach, at a University where just being the Head Coach is grossly time demanding.  He needs to focus on being great at one thing (the thing we hired him for) instead of half-assing everything.  He can start by getting rid of the dead weight coaches who can't or won't follow his expectations.  I was told once that "great head coaches hire assistants who are better than them, or who push them to be better."  The problem with Herman is his own self-inflated ego and mindset that he's already the greatest thing in the room.

Thanks...

I understand that you may want to protect players by not mentioning specifics.

If you're ok with sharing this info, what assistants aren't holding their groups accountable per your source(s)??? 

Herman needs to be the Head Coach, and quit being a Pal to his Bro's... hopefully CDC can advise Mensa thru this process!!

 

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On 10/28/2019 at 2:58 PM, CurlyDumps said:

 

Or will he act like a thin-skinned pussy, double down on this dickless staff, and go into bunker mode a la Mack?

I believe the latter just as you said.- thin vaginal membranes, reinforcement of validation for absent penile members, and crawling back into the womb/TH Clubhouse

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On 10/28/2019 at 5:18 PM, Bruh Man said:

Ballou thinks you guys are acting like 2 yr olds. Real fans wouldn't question a team with negative punt yards, more missed tackles than anyone in the country, and the worst defense in program history. 

So I guess the former players calling out the shittayness are also stupid and immature.

i guess Bob likes him some Mentard taint.

 

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On 10/28/2019 at 6:23 PM, hookem48 said:

6'5" 230 pound receivers letting 5'10" 180 pound DBs bitch slap them at the line is fucking embarrassing, stop crying about holding and use your 8 foot arms and get the fuck open. 

Not having LJH is so telling. CJ has turtled, maybe just playing not to get hurt.LJH put it all out there.

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12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, I get tired of the salary mentions.  It's the going rate at a place like UT.  Either they are satisfying the criteria or they aren't, but quoting their salary isn't adding to the discussion.  

Would it be ok if they were just making $50k/year? Nope badger.

The point with the salary mentions is that there are expectations of performance, particularly with high compensation, the expectations however do not apply I guess in some fields. Ridiculous.

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26 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

There is too much broken. Tom doesn't have the ability, knowledge or apparently desire to fix it.  I hope CDC advises him to pack his shit and gtfo.   Tom is not fixing his mess. He created it and thinks it isn't broken. He wouldn't even if he knew how, which he doesn't.

Based on Herman's press conference after the TCU game in Fort Worth, I didn't see a guy that believes everything is currently fine with the Texas Football Program...

I know CDC is not happy having his friends in Fort Worth laughing about their victory over Texas.  CDC should be on Tom's ass right now about the poor product and poor coaching Mensa's staff is providing.

I still believe there's a possibility for Herman to learn and improve as the Head Coach at Texas.   But Herman must make staff changes to get rid of some shitty assistants and replace them with quality coaches/recruiters...

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11 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

You aren't paying attention to on field results. Nothing is working on this team, at all.

Let me repeat on last time. Not a single part of this team, NONE, is functioning properly. Tom created that reality. It's pure delusion to think he can fix 

 

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    Ok... We know where you stand!

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20 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

Can anyone tell me when Tom Herman will be fired??? There are lots of threads saying he should be fired.  The way this team is playing is bull shit!! 

Probably after 2020 at the earliest. But at least that means you can free up your fall Saturdays for golf and just watch your NFL team on Sunday.

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One of my concerns with Herman is his inability to naturally (emphasis on that word) relate to his players. I think he assumes b/c he has a binder full of team building activities and that he kisses his players that his locker room is close-knit and loyal to him when in reality they can see thru his inauthenticity. I think there's definitely some of that coming to the surface now that they're losing. As neurotic as Herman can be, as evidenced by his compulsive behavior at times during press conferences, I could imagine the players being emboldened to tune him and his staff full of sycophants out once they come to the realization that their approach is failing miserably.

Say what you want about the goofy mofo but Orgeron does not have this problem. He is who he is whether they're winning or losing, so the players stay loyal to him and I believe geniunely love him. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Say what you want about the goofy mofo but Orgeron

OK. I'll say this: a year ago, 98% of the college football world doubted Orgeron would be LSU's coach in three years. LSU is currently two-thirds of the way through a schedule that still has Alabama, potentially the SEC championship game, and an NY6 bowl/playoff game to go. Oregeron failed at Ole Miss and couldn't impress USC, which never met an incestuous internal promotion it didn't like, enough to keep him. 

This sudden desire to crown Orgeron as the paramount example of coaching acumen baffles me. I think it boils down to two things: he's Not Herman in his willingness to make a big obvious change (offensive approach), and he's Not Herman because he's 8-0 this year. 

Otherwise, maybe tap the brakes. LSU could still finish with two losses this year. Or they could win the national championship and then go 8-5 next year a la Gene Chizik at Auburn. I'm personally still skeptical Orgeron has solved any more than one side of the college football coaching Rubik's cube.

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5 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

hey, let's downplay what he's accomplished because he talks funny.

man you've got me all figured out, I didn't even mention this but you knew it was why I posted what I posted.

and again, my point was, maybe tap the brakes on the idea of "Orgeron has figured everything out" until, I don't know, their season is over? 

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12 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

2017: 9-4

2018: 10-3 (should have been 11-2 if not for the aggy theft)

2019: 8-0

He's shown steady improvement year by year, he's shown a willingness to adapt his philosophy/staff, his players adore him, and he has a monster recruiting class coming in...but hey, let's downplay what he's accomplished because he talks funny. It's amazing how arrogant and oblivious some of you guys are. Newsflash, we've been a dumpster fire for a greater part of a decade, maybe humble yourself a bit. We'd trade places with the state of their program in a heartbeat. 

I'm sure firing people every 3 years will lead to long term program health and stability like they have, and not being the college football equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.

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1 minute ago, SwanderedTalent said:

man you've got me all figured out, I didn't even mention this but you knew it was why I posted what I posted.

Says the guy who went on a diatribe about "crowning" him because I simply stated that he gets along with players. Can we not acknowledge this fact and that he's done good job so far and has his program headed in the right direction? A fan of a program that can't tackle and can't field a punt without skipping a heartbeat is going to really belittle what Orgeron's accomplishing at LSU?  Get your arrogant uppity ass the fuck out of here. 

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4 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Says the guy who went on a diatribe about "crowning" him because I simply stated that he gets along with players. Can we not acknowledge this fact and that he's done good job so far and has his program headed in the right direction? A fan of a program that can't tackle and can't field a punt without skipping a heartbeat is going to really belittle what Orgeron's accomplishing at LSU?  Get your arrogant uppity ass the fuck out of here. 

Texas went toe-to-toe with LSU, and they are definitely a way better team.

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6 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

but hey, let's downplay what he's accomplished because he talks funny.

people downplay him because of how shitty he was at Ole Miss  (no really, he was somehow even worse than you remember, 10-25 and 3-21 in the SEC and constantly shot himself in the foot at every opportunity), the fact that he has *never* been a coordinator - which is super strange for a guy who has been a coach for literally 35 years), that he wasn't LSU's number one choice (which he was not), and because he comes across like an insane person in most interviews.

also, let's not act like he is some kind of savant because he was able to go 9-4 and 10-3 at LSU. Les Miles won a *ton* of games at LSU - over 11 full seasons, he averaged 10.1 wins and 2.9 losses.

Miles went 3-7 against Saban, Coach O is currently 0-3 - that may change this year but so far he hasn't been able to flip that script. in fact, his team has scored a total of 20 points in those 3 games for a nice average of 6 points per.

Give him some credit for Joe Brady, but he got lucky there - if he really believed he would be anywhere close to as good as he has been, he would have paid him more than 400k and wouldn't have stuck with Steve Ensminger as his OC, or let him continue to actually be the guy calling plays. let's see what happens when/if Brady is elsewhere next year, or do you think he is going to suddenly demote Ensminger?

 

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  • immamac changed the title to Tom Herman, Still The Head Coach at Texas

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