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Quote

Territorial issues will be "key elements" in resolving the war.

Everything else is just noise.  Russia will demand that Ukraine give up its territory.  Ukraine will say no, our admin will say Ukraine is being unreasonable, and it all goes right back in the shitter again.

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Posted
8 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

They wouldn't and shouldn't. It would positively cripple Ukrainian war efforts. You want Ukraine to fight a ground war with Russia with winter around the bend? To forgo every advantage they have currently? You think that's a sound strategy? History out "front" should have told ya. 

It is pure shit drivel from Putin trying to show any sort of willingness to "negotiate" with Trump in order to delay/reduce/stop any further/additional sanctions/support/tarrifs. 

 

 

Well, I said airplanes and there is no way that Ukraine has air superiority unless you include drones. 

Posted

we discussed this somewhere up thread, but so long as india is involved then failing russia doesn't just become a chinese mining colony. so it's a bit of a dilemma trying to pry russia and india further apart.

Posted

Not loving what I'm reading about trump capitulating to putin

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-peace-deal-ukraine-vladimir-putin-trump-2110865

Quote

The United States and Russia are aiming to secure a peace deal that would lock in Russia's gains in Ukraine following its invasion three and a half years ago, according to a report by Bloomberg.

The deal would mean Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky giving up the entire eastern Donbas, Crimea and parts of Luhansk and Donetsk, where fighting is still raging, unnamed sources told Bloomberg.

Newsweek reached out to the U.S. State Department, as well as the Russian and Ukrainian foreign affairs ministries for comment via email on Friday.

Why It Matters

If confirmed, such a deal would represent a huge win for Russian President Vladimir Putin, who launched the invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 with the stated goal of "liberating" the Donbas, despite concerns and condemnation from global leaders who viewed the war as unprovoked and unjustified.

The conflict has continued for years as Russia has struggled to make more substantial gains in Ukraine after its initial progress. However, peace deals have also stalled as Russian and Ukrainian leaders have not reached a consensus on key sticking points, such as whether Russia should keep its seized Ukrainian territory.

What To Know

Ukraine has not agreed to the proposed deal, Bloomberg reported. Putin and President Donald Trump are expected to meet for talks next week.

The U.S. is working to build support from Ukraine and allies in Europe, according to the report, which noted that is "far from certain."

Under the proposal, Ukraine would have to remove troops from the eastern Ukrainian regions of Luhansk and Donetsk, while Russia would end offensive operations in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, Bloomberg reported. The report also noted that it is unclear whether Moscow would give up any land it currently occupies.

What Happens Next?

Full details of the reported proposal have not been released ahead of an upcoming meeting between Trump and Putin. Trump said this week that Putin does not have to meet with Zelensky as a condition to their sit-down.

 

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Not loving what I'm reading about trump capitulating to putin

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-peace-deal-ukraine-vladimir-putin-trump-2110865

 

A story ripped from the pages of "DUH! A Journal of the Obvious."  This has been the play all along.  And it plays out with Ukraine saying "f that," the US saying "fine, fuck you, we're cutting off all aid," and many more Ukrainians dying in a war that will continue to rage with support from the rest of Europe, but not end without the "get it past the finish line" support that only the US can provide.

It's a recipe for failure, prolonged war, and more bloodshed.  And that recipe was fully baked months ago.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Captainant said:

Not loving what I'm reading about trump capitulating to putin

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-peace-deal-ukraine-vladimir-putin-trump-2110865

 

There are many extremely influential people in the admin who are legitimately pro-Russian and who want to see them win and the United States governed like Russia is now. There are only a few who are even close to pro-Ukraine.  
 

Honestly it’s really only Trump’s vanity that has prevented a total capitulation on this; Putin has played things pretty badly.  But it’s going to keep inching in Russia’s favor. Ukraine represents a threat to the MAGA ideologue’s worldview as a nation that democratically wishes to be governed normally and to embed in Western institutions. 

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Posted

Lukashenko signals end to his authoritarian run in Belarus

https://thehill.com/policy/international/5443919-belarus-lukashenko-final-term/

Spoiler

After ruling the country for three decades, Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenko told Time in an interview that he would not seek another term.

Lukashenko, Russian President Vladimir Putin’s right hand in Europe, has been in power since 1994 and was sworn in for his seventh term in March. His opponents deemed the January election undemocratic, but Lukashenko rejects any claim that he is an authoritarian ruler.

“These days, of course, I’m far from being Soviet, but Soviet principles, the best ones, live inside me,” Lukashenko told Time.

“Why should I reject them? Just like the Americans do not reject their history, it’s the same with me. That’s why we have this friendship with Russia, the closest kind of cooperation.”

Lukashenko has helped Russia conduct its war in Ukraine, heavily relies on Russia for its economy and is anti-European.

“Western Europe can get lost. Putin can disregard them. In this situation, if we reach a deal with the Americans, the Europeans won’t have any way out of it,” he told Time.

In 2022, Russian troops went through Belarusian territory to invade Ukraine. He also allowed his country to serve as a training ground for Russian troops, a storage locker for Russian ammunition and spoke with the Trump administration in favor of Putin.

He also told the Times that his son Nikolai was not next in the line of the succession, amid rumors that he was preparing him to take over the country.

In June 2023, Lukashenko presented himself as a peacemaker for helping to end an armed rebellion against Russian military generals led by Yevgeny Prigozhin, head of the mercenary group Wagner. He proposed that Prigozhin take exile in Belarus rather than letting Putin take military action.

He has also cracked down on a number of popular protests. The most notable was in 2020, after citizens and international groups denounced that the election was stolen. He jailed his political opponents and imprisoned 65,000 protesters.

On Wednesday, he continued to conduct mass arrests of protesters who took part in anti-government rallies in the country and abroad.

In February, the White House secured the release of three political prisoners, including an American citizen and a Belarusian journalist.

Copyright 2025 Nexstar Media, Inc. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
For the latest news, weather, sports, and streaming video, head to The Hill.

 

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Posted
16 hours ago, Chopper said:

this is joyful

 

Honestly, in this situation (in the middle of nowhere, knowing prompt medical care is not available, can't escape) this is probably the best option to ensure a quick, relatively painless death.

Posted (edited)

Something to keep in mind as negotiations play out. 

How Trump’s Armenia-Azerbaijan deal gives US key ‘leverage’ over Russia

https://nypost.com/2025/08/08/world-news/how-trumps-armenia-azerbaijan-deal-gives-us-key-leverage-over-russia

Spoiler

WASHINGTON — A Trump-brokered peace agreement between Armenia and Azerbaijan represents a major breakthrough after decades of fighting between the neighboring nations — and offers the US “leverage” over Russia, an expert tells The Post.

The deal calls for the creation of a 20-mile transit corridor, modestly labeled the “Trump Route for International Peace and Prosperity,” that will allow Azerbaijanis direct access to their country’s westernmost region, explained Hudson Institute senior fellow Luke Coffey.

“If you look at a map of Azerbaijan, it’s in two chunks — you have Azerbaijan proper and then there’s Nakhchivan, which is an enclave,” Coffey said. “Think of it like the United States and Alaska, but instead of having Canada in between, you have Armenia.”


From left: Azerbaijan President Ilham Aliyev, US President Donald Trump, and Armenia Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan display copies of the peace agreement. AP
Team Trump mustn’t let slippery Putin squirm out of a real cease-fire

With Azerbaijan and Armenia at war since the late 1980s, Azerbaijanis have not been allowed to pass through Yerevan’s territory — forcing much longer trade trips to reach Nakhchivan.

In 2020, Russia — which has relations with both nations — oversaw an agreement to open a transit route through this region, “not for [Azerbaijan] to control it, but to open it, like in the same way we can ship goods to Alaska through Canada,” Coffey said.

Trump sets Aug. 15 Alaska meeting with Putin in latest bid to end Ukraine war

“This never happened, though, because Russia as the power broker failed to implement it,” he explained.

Armenia — once heavily supported by Moscow — became frustrated, and the bad feelings grew in 2023 when Russia failed to come to its defense during a push by Azerbaijan to retake the Nagorno-Karabakh region, which Armenia had occupied for more than 20 years.

The deal announced by Trump Friday — which also gives the US exclusive development rights along the new route — would allow Washington to fill the void left by Moscow, further distancing Russia from its former possessions in West Asia as Vladimir Putin pursues expansionist goals in Ukraine.

Putin has long lamented the fall of the Soviet regime, which he has called the “disintegration of historical Russia” and “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the [20th] century.”

CLICK HERE TO SIGN UP FOR OUR MORNING REPORT NEWSLETTER


President Trump displays his copy of the trilateral agreement Friday at the White House. AP
Should the US deal hold up, it would demonstrate Russia’s “diminishing sway within its so-called ‘near-abroad,’” said John Hardie, director of the Foundation for Defense of Democracy’s Russia program.

“They’re being sidelined in a conflict that they used to play a key role in keeping frozen, and using it as a form of leverage over the two parties,” he added.

While it’s unclear whether the Armenia-Azerbaijan deal will help end the Ukraine war, Russia “is not going to be happy,” about the US’ new prominence in the Caucuses, Coffey said.

“I’m sure it’s being featured in the talks with [the US] and the Kremlin, and who knows what could be agreed behind closed doors?” he said. “Maybe as part of a larger settlement to get Russia to the table with Ukraine, the US will then say, ‘OK, a Russian company or Russia can have a role in this transit route.

”I wouldn’t put anything past this White House — and I don’t mean that in a derogatory sense — but they see this purely as transactional. For them, it’s just, ‘How do we get the best deal?’”

For top headlines, breaking news and more, visit nypost.com.

 

Edited by KYHorn
Posted

It is looking like a key element of the proposed deal involves Ukraine handing over territory that Russia does not even control yet— likely a firm red line for any Ukrainian leader. Trump is likely looking to grab any bone Putin will give him so he can cast the two of them as reasonable negotiators while leaving Ukraine out of talks on its own future. 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

Something to keep in mind as negotiations play out. 

How Trump’s Armenia-Azerbaijan deal gives US key ‘leverage’ over Russia

https://nypost.com/2025/08/08/world-news/how-trumps-armenia-azerbaijan-deal-gives-us-key-leverage-over-russia

  Reveal hidden contents

WASHINGTON — A Trump-brokered peace agreement between Armenia and Azerbaijan represents a major breakthrough after decades of fighting between the neighboring nations — and offers the US “leverage” over Russia, an expert tells The Post.

The deal calls for the creation of a 20-mile transit corridor, modestly labeled the “Trump Route for International Peace and Prosperity,” that will allow Azerbaijanis direct access to their country’s westernmost region, explained Hudson Institute senior fellow Luke Coffey.

“If you look at a map of Azerbaijan, it’s in two chunks — you have Azerbaijan proper and then there’s Nakhchivan, which is an enclave,” Coffey said. “Think of it like the United States and Alaska, but instead of having Canada in between, you have Armenia.”


From left: Azerbaijan President Ilham Aliyev, US President Donald Trump, and Armenia Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan display copies of the peace agreement. AP
Team Trump mustn’t let slippery Putin squirm out of a real cease-fire

With Azerbaijan and Armenia at war since the late 1980s, Azerbaijanis have not been allowed to pass through Yerevan’s territory — forcing much longer trade trips to reach Nakhchivan.

In 2020, Russia — which has relations with both nations — oversaw an agreement to open a transit route through this region, “not for [Azerbaijan] to control it, but to open it, like in the same way we can ship goods to Alaska through Canada,” Coffey said.

Trump sets Aug. 15 Alaska meeting with Putin in latest bid to end Ukraine war

“This never happened, though, because Russia as the power broker failed to implement it,” he explained.

Armenia — once heavily supported by Moscow — became frustrated, and the bad feelings grew in 2023 when Russia failed to come to its defense during a push by Azerbaijan to retake the Nagorno-Karabakh region, which Armenia had occupied for more than 20 years.

The deal announced by Trump Friday — which also gives the US exclusive development rights along the new route — would allow Washington to fill the void left by Moscow, further distancing Russia from its former possessions in West Asia as Vladimir Putin pursues expansionist goals in Ukraine.

Putin has long lamented the fall of the Soviet regime, which he has called the “disintegration of historical Russia” and “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the [20th] century.”

CLICK HERE TO SIGN UP FOR OUR MORNING REPORT NEWSLETTER


President Trump displays his copy of the trilateral agreement Friday at the White House. AP
Should the US deal hold up, it would demonstrate Russia’s “diminishing sway within its so-called ‘near-abroad,’” said John Hardie, director of the Foundation for Defense of Democracy’s Russia program.

“They’re being sidelined in a conflict that they used to play a key role in keeping frozen, and using it as a form of leverage over the two parties,” he added.

While it’s unclear whether the Armenia-Azerbaijan deal will help end the Ukraine war, Russia “is not going to be happy,” about the US’ new prominence in the Caucuses, Coffey said.

“I’m sure it’s being featured in the talks with [the US] and the Kremlin, and who knows what could be agreed behind closed doors?” he said. “Maybe as part of a larger settlement to get Russia to the table with Ukraine, the US will then say, ‘OK, a Russian company or Russia can have a role in this transit route.

”I wouldn’t put anything past this White House — and I don’t mean that in a derogatory sense — but they see this purely as transactional. For them, it’s just, ‘How do we get the best deal?’”

For top headlines, breaking news and more, visit nypost.com.

 

I honestly don’t see this as tremendous leverage for Ukraine talks. It’s a fairly significant achievement (if it holds) and could hopefully resolve an ongoing irritant that has been unproductive for us. But it’s not at this point a core interest for Russia in the way Ukraine is and economic concessions are some of the weakest pieces of bait for Putin.  The Russians will not view anything here as especially worth trading away Ukraine aims for.  

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Posted
13 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It is looking like a key element of the proposed deal involves Ukraine handing over territory that Russia does not even control yet— likely a firm red line for any Ukrainian leader. Trump is likely looking to grab any bone Putin will give him so he can cast the two of them as reasonable negotiators while leaving Ukraine out of talks on its own future. 

Perhaps.  And the likelihood that Putin immediately  breaks the agreement (and hurts Trumps' feelings) is rather high.

Posted
4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I honestly don’t see this as tremendous leverage for Ukraine talks. It’s a fairly significant achievement (if it holds) and could hopefully resolve an ongoing irritant that has been unproductive for us. But it’s not at this point a core interest for Russia in the way Ukraine is and economic concessions are some of the weakest pieces of bait for Putin.  The Russians will not view anything here as especially worth trading away Ukraine aims for.  

Good points. I agree- saying it could be "key" in negotiations is overstating it quite a bit.

Posted
1 minute ago, Ghost of NMAS said:

I’m guessing that the meeting in Alaska ends with Putin’s owning both Ukraine and Alaska

Non-zero chance of this happening. Will not be at all surprised to see some bullshit cross-Bering commercial project dangled out there.  A lot of the pro-Russia people in this admin suffer the delusion that Russia can be an important trading partner. 

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Posted
It is looking like a key element of the proposed deal involves Ukraine handing over territory that Russia does not even control yet— likely a firm red line for any Ukrainian leader. Trump is likely looking to grab any bone Putin will give him so he can cast the two of them as reasonable negotiators while leaving Ukraine out of talks on its own future. 

Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it
Ever
Was
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Posted
16 hours ago, KYHorn said:

Lukashenko signals end to his authoritarian run in Belarus

https://thehill.com/policy/international/5443919-belarus-lukashenko-final-term/

  Reveal hidden contents

After ruling the country for three decades, Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenko told Time in an interview that he would not seek another term.

Lukashenko, Russian President Vladimir Putin’s right hand in Europe, has been in power since 1994 and was sworn in for his seventh term in March. His opponents deemed the January election undemocratic, but Lukashenko rejects any claim that he is an authoritarian ruler.

“These days, of course, I’m far from being Soviet, but Soviet principles, the best ones, live inside me,” Lukashenko told Time.

“Why should I reject them? Just like the Americans do not reject their history, it’s the same with me. That’s why we have this friendship with Russia, the closest kind of cooperation.”

Lukashenko has helped Russia conduct its war in Ukraine, heavily relies on Russia for its economy and is anti-European.

“Western Europe can get lost. Putin can disregard them. In this situation, if we reach a deal with the Americans, the Europeans won’t have any way out of it,” he told Time.

In 2022, Russian troops went through Belarusian territory to invade Ukraine. He also allowed his country to serve as a training ground for Russian troops, a storage locker for Russian ammunition and spoke with the Trump administration in favor of Putin.

He also told the Times that his son Nikolai was not next in the line of the succession, amid rumors that he was preparing him to take over the country.

In June 2023, Lukashenko presented himself as a peacemaker for helping to end an armed rebellion against Russian military generals led by Yevgeny Prigozhin, head of the mercenary group Wagner. He proposed that Prigozhin take exile in Belarus rather than letting Putin take military action.

He has also cracked down on a number of popular protests. The most notable was in 2020, after citizens and international groups denounced that the election was stolen. He jailed his political opponents and imprisoned 65,000 protesters.

On Wednesday, he continued to conduct mass arrests of protesters who took part in anti-government rallies in the country and abroad.

In February, the White House secured the release of three political prisoners, including an American citizen and a Belarusian journalist.

Copyright 2025 Nexstar Media, Inc. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
For the latest news, weather, sports, and streaming video, head to The Hill.

 

So we know when Russia will annex Belarus.

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