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1 minute ago, G650 said:

Thank you.

 

I mean, we tolerated it to different degrees and obviously the nobility of what we were doing was a farce. A certain segment of our population that overlaps with Tony Keith tolerated it a lot more.

 

It's old history now, but given all that’s transpired in the past two decades, I still stand by my assertion the first 6 months of Afghanistan were the right call, and everything that followed was a train wreck.

I agree. I think we want to minimize civilian casualties but the objective needs to be achieved. I truly think Israel wants to minimize civilian casualties but their objective has to be achieved. I think after the initial offensive attack by Hamas, their defensive tactics will turn to maximizing civilian casualties as a weapon to force Israel to capitulate. It’s an impossible situation. 

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10 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Getting to a headspace where you believe Israel had enough information to stop the massacre and didn’t implies a strong conspiratorial worldview that’s pretty fucking dark. Strong vibes of “I’m critical of International Finance and rootless cosmopolitanism, how dare you mention anti-Semitism.” 
 

Some of you people need to get to the Holocaust Museum and take in the propaganda section to appreciate the historical context of the narratives being tossed around in this thread. 

I think it’s incomprehensible for us to understand the hatred Hamas has for Israel and Jews - our western multicultural brains can’t compute. Because of that we slip into an assumption that they are rational actors. It’s an impossible situation. 

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9 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Getting to a headspace where you believe Israel had enough information to stop the massacre and didn’t implies a strong conspiratorial worldview that’s pretty fucking dark. Strong vibes of “I’m critical of International Finance and rootless cosmopolitanism, how dare you mention anti-Semitism.” 

Sigh. Your shit is tired. Shouldn’t you be on the DT thread contradicting yourself about the reliability of atrocity stories?

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Many Jews both here and in Israel are disgusted by and denounce what the government is currently doing. Jews are not a monolith. I want to make sure they are recognized and appreciated.

Are you familiar with the concept of comparative responsibility? This reminds me of a bar fight where many opportunities to de-escalate were deliberately or naively declined. Both participants bear responsibility for the fight, and the reasons how it started are long forgotten and almost don't matter anymore.
One side might be more drunk than the other, but in this fight, one side is clearly stronger, clearly has more allies, and clearly is in a position to end it peacefully. To me, that has moral implications beyond the practical implications. I believe it is blameworthy to escalate a fight. At some point, it crosses from self-defense to revenge. I'm very troubled by the revelations that the massacre could have been stopped but was not.

Y’all raise an interesting point, and it’s a common blind spot among the harshest Israel critics. Y’all are right…LOTS of Jewish voices, in Israel, and here, among the common population and leaders/thinkers. I have a significant number of Jewish friends. Almost all of them are I genuine agony over the actions of the Israeli state and the death and suffering of Palestinians, both over the years and today. They feel that as much, and for some even more, as they feel agony for the murders committed by Hamas last week.
That position is much rarer among Palestinians. Not non-existent of course, but much rarer. The more common reactions are either open celebration of Palestinian atrocities, or a passing statement of “of course it was bad for Hamas to murder civilians, but this is all Israel’s fault and the most important thing we can do now is use this as an opportunity to criticize Israel alone…FREE PALESTINE!”
If we’re gonna “both sides” this - and we should - then both sides need to be willing to be introspective. For example, Palestinians MIGHT want to step back and acknowledge that decades of violence against civilians, including high profile attacks celebrated with jubilation….has hardened Israel’s stance, and actually helped create and empower the Bibis and Likuds of this world (you know, just like disproportionate Israeli responses and violent repression of Palestinians helped create and empower Hamas). That take is much rarer than Israelis and Jews worldwide who say similar things about the Israeli state and govt.
Which, if you are an Israeli/Jewish moderate, is very discouraging. You WANT to come to the table, but why? To listen to Palestinians as they continue to toast to the murder of your neighbors? As they continue to refer to you solely as colonialists who must be pushed into the sea? And, maybe that’s what history demands…but good luck getting it.
A whole lot of “Palestinians are humans, what do you expeller them to do?”, without the same acknowledgment for Jews, who MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WANT TO EXTERMINATE, including at least a large plurality of Palestinians.
Which, by the way, is why there is no path forward and never will be. Just more death and suffering. That’s what we do.
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3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 


Y’all raise an interesting point, and it’s a common blind spot among the harshest Israel critics. Y’all are right…LOTS of Jewish voices, in Israel, and here, among the common population and leaders/thinkers. I have a significant number of Jewish friends. Almost all of them are I genuine agony over the actions of the Israeli state and the death and suffering of Palestinians, both over the years and today. They feel that as much, and for some even more, as they feel agony for the murders committed by Hamas last week.
That position is much rarer among Palestinians. Not non-existent of course, but much rarer. The more common reactions are either open celebration of Palestinian atrocities, or a passing statement of “of course it was bad for Hamas to murder civilians, but this is all Israel’s fault and the most important thing we can do now is use this as an opportunity to criticize Israel alone…FREE PALESTINE!”
If we’re gonna “both sides” this - and we should - then both sides need to be willing to be introspective. For example, Palestinians MIGHT want to step back and acknowledge that decades of violence against civilians, including high profile attacks celebrated with jubilation….has hardened Israel’s stance, and actually helped create and empower the Bibis and Likuds of this world (you know, just like disproportionate Israeli responses and violent repression of Palestinians helped create and empower Hamas). That take is much rarer than Israelis and Jews worldwide who say similar things about the Israeli state and govt.
Which, if you are an Israeli/Jewish moderate, is very discouraging. You WANT to come to the table, but why? To listen to Palestinians as they continue to toast to the murder of your neighbors? As they continue to refer to you solely as colonialists who must be pushed into the sea? And, maybe that’s what history demands…but good luck getting it.
A whole lot of “Palestinians are humans, what do you expeller them to do?”, without the same acknowledgment for Jews, who MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WANT TO EXTERMINATE, including at least a large plurality of Palestinians.
Which, by the way, is why there is no path forward and never will be. Just more death and suffering. That’s what we do.

 

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11 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Sigh. Your shit is tired. Shouldn’t you be on the DT thread contradicting yourself about the reliability of atrocity stories?

“My groundless conspiracy theory about how the state of Israel allowed Jews to be massacred is really a nuanced critique of the government”  is some fucking weak shit. 

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It's like you pulled a script from Fox News.
By framing this as the plight of Jewish people instead of the nation state of Israel you are attempting to frame any criticism of Israel as antisemitism which is complete bullshit.
 
 
 

I have been incredibly vocal in the last few years about how Judaism and Israeli are not synonyms. Hearing Trump assume that he’ll win the Jewish vote purely because of something he did for Israel made my skin crawl. There’s a clear and obvious distinction between the two that can and should be made.

That being said, from what I’ve seen over the last week, the distinction is not important to most who are pro-Palestinian. A Jewish teacher in France was murdered yesterday. Jewish (not Israeli) museums in America hosted pro-Palestinian protests this week. Local Jewish owned business are getting negative review bombed by Palestinian sympathizers.

We all absolutely understand and appreciate the difference, we just also acknowledge that the opposition generally doesn’t give a fuck.
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8 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

“My groundless conspiracy theory about how the state of Israel allowed Jews to be massacred is really a nuanced critique of the government”  is some fucking weak shit. 

Whose conspiracy theory is that? And for maybe the sixth time on these threads, fuck you and your disingenuous bullshit. To the ignore list you go.

 

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Y’all raise an interesting point, and it’s a common blind spot among the harshest Israel critics. Y’all are right…LOTS of Jewish voices, in Israel, and here, among the common population and leaders/thinkers. I have a significant number of Jewish friends. Almost all of them are I genuine agony over the actions of the Israeli state and the death and suffering of Palestinians, both over the years and today. They feel that as much, and for some even more, as they feel agony for the murders committed by Hamas last week.
That position is much rarer among Palestinians. Not non-existent of course, but much rarer. The more common reactions are either open celebration of Palestinian atrocities, or a passing statement of “of course it was bad for Hamas to murder civilians, but this is all Israel’s fault and the most important thing we can do now is use this as an opportunity to criticize Israel alone…FREE PALESTINE!”
If we’re gonna “both sides” this - and we should - then both sides need to be willing to be introspective. For example, Palestinians MIGHT want to step back and acknowledge that decades of violence against civilians, including high profile attacks celebrated with jubilation….has hardened Israel’s stance, and actually helped create and empower the Bibis and Likuds of this world (you know, just like disproportionate Israeli responses and violent repression of Palestinians helped create and empower Hamas). That take is much rarer than Israelis and Jews worldwide who say similar things about the Israeli state and govt.
Which, if you are an Israeli/Jewish moderate, is very discouraging. You WANT to come to the table, but why? To listen to Palestinians as they continue to toast to the murder of your neighbors? As they continue to refer to you solely as colonialists who must be pushed into the sea? And, maybe that’s what history demands…but good luck getting it.
A whole lot of “Palestinians are humans, what do you expeller them to do?”, without the same acknowledgment for Jews, who MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WANT TO EXTERMINATE, including at least a large plurality of Palestinians.
Which, by the way, is why there is no path forward and never will be. Just more death and suffering. That’s what we do.

Finally, words that articulate what I’ve been feeling over the last week. Thank you Brisket, genuinely.
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3 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Whose conspiracy theory is that? And for maybe the sixth time on these threads, fuck you and your disingenuous bullshit. 

 

The conspiracy theory that the Israeli government “allowed” the massacre to happen.  Having hard time keeping up? 
 

Quote

Maybe they should have acted on the intelligence before allowing the massacre to happen.

 

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44 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

You have not addressed the bulldozing of homes and illegal settlements in violation of international law.

That’s super illegal and shouldn’t be happening. I’d go so far as to say the Israeli government has an affirmative responsibility to remove the settlements and prosecute and jail the people who moved there, and they aren’t doing it. They absolutely shouldn’t be helping them do it. Bibi is a piece of dick asshole for failing to do so. 
 

It’s not terrorism, though, if we are getting hung up on precise definition of terms.  

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1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

That’s super illegal and shouldn’t be happening. I’d go so far as to say the Israeli government has an affirmative responsibility to remove the settlements and prosecute and jail the people who moved there, and they aren’t doing it. They absolutely shouldn’t be helping them do it. Bibi is a piece of dick asshole for failing to do so. 
 

It’s not terrorism, though, if we are getting hung up on precise definition of terms.  

Dude come the fuck on, it is literally ethnic cleansing which is terrorism. This is why you get so much pushback, you absolutely refuse to acknowledge the actions of Israel for what they are.

You very clearly only want the word terrorism to be attached to Arabs. It's fucking gross and you should stop.

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1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

I know you're not, I just think you're saying some nationalistic things in this context.

As far as I'm concerned, you of all people should understand what I'm trying to say.

There isn’t a conversation where we will agree the US is a terrorist organization. I already said if you want to talk about American imperialism in a nuanced manner I’ll join. The fact is, the US is a mixed bag of good and bad acts, some the same event, same act, same decision has elements of both. Hamas is nothing but a death cult. 
 

we can criticize all we want but nation states exist in part to protect their people. Hamas is not that, the US and Israel are. If you want agreement that the nation states of the US and Israel have done some bad shit, clearly I agree, without hesitation. 

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4 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Dude come the fuck on, it is literally ethnic cleansing which is terrorism. This is why you get so much pushback, you absolutely refuse to acknowledge the actions of Israel for what they are.

You very clearly only want the word terrorism to be attached to Arabs. It's fucking gross and you should stop.

Ethnic cleansing isn’t terrorism, either. For that matter, neither was the Holocaust. All the bad things states do to kill people aren’t terrorism. A strategic bombing campaign that is targeting a military object but kills a lot of civilians isn’t terrorism. A strategic bombing campaign that is designed to terrify the population in the hopes they’ll stop fighting is terrorism. 
 

Terrorism is using violence against innocent people to spread fear in the hopes of advancing a political aim.  This is the Israeli government simply destroying shit and allowing Israelis to take it. Which is a crime. 

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9 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Ethnic cleansing isn’t terrorism, either. For that matter, neither was the Holocaust. All the bad things states do to kill people aren’t terrorism. A strategic bombing campaign that is targeting a military object but kills a lot of civilians isn’t terrorism. A strategic bombing campaign that is designed to terrify the population in the hopes they’ll stop fighting is terrorism. 
 

Terrorism is using violence against innocent people to spread fear in the hopes of advancing a political aim.  This is the Israeli government simply destroying shit and allowing Israelis to take it. Which is a crime. 

It's incredible to me that we've reached a point that we're arguing whether or not state-sponsored ethnic cleansing is terrorism or not. When Israeli settlers illegally, forcibly displace Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank, it is an act of violence that is backed and supported by the government of Israel, which is what makes it state-sponsored terrorism.

You will literally say anything to ensure the word terrorism only describes Arabs.

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Just now, Brian Fantana said:

It's incredible to me that we've reached a point that we're arguing whether or not state-sponsored ethnic cleansing is terrorism or not. When Israeli settlers illegally, forcibly displace Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank, it is an act of violence that is backed and supported by the government of Israel, which is what makes it state-sponsored terrorism.

You will literally say anything to ensure the word terrorism only describes Arabs.

Well, it was terrorism when Zionist terrorists blow up the King David hotel. And when Israeli illegal settlers shoot Palestinian neighbors in the hopes they’ll run away and abandon their homes, that’s absolutely terrorism. 

What you’ve described above is forcible displacement, and if/when it’s done with the aim of creating a homogenous state then it’s ethnic cleansing. Those are all crimes enough.

 

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16 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Terrorism is using violence against innocent people to spread fear in the hopes of advancing a political aim.

You have to be a real dishonest piece of shit to argue that this is not exactly what Israeli settlers and the IDF have been doing in the occupied territories for decades. 

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Just now, 956 Worldwide said:

Well, it was terrorism when Zionist terrorists blow up the King David hotel. And when Israeli illegal settlers shoot Palestinian neighbors in the hopes they’ll run away and abandon their homes, that’s absolutely terrorism. 

What you’ve described above is forcible displacement, and if/when it’s done with the aim of creating a homogenous state then it’s ethnic cleansing. Those are all crimes enough.

It's not really a useful argument, tbh. I'm gonna step away for a while.

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6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's incredible to me that we've reached a point that we're arguing whether or not state-sponsored ethnic cleansing is terrorism or not. When Israeli settlers illegally, forcibly displace Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank, it is an act of violence that is backed and supported by the government of Israel, which is what makes it state-sponsored terrorism.

You will literally say anything to ensure the word terrorism only describes Arabs.

I’m not sure it’s terrorism either but putting aside semantics governments can do atrocious things. There is still a massive difference between a terrorist organization like Hamas and the US or Israel and that distinction is made acknowledging these two governments have done some really really bad shit. The fact is these governments do good things for their people too, Hamas does not. Hezbollah does not. Other terrorist organizations throughout the world do not.

you can have harsh criticism for a government while recognizing the sharp distinction between a legitimate government and a terrorist organization 

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26 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Ethnic cleansing isn’t terrorism, either. For that matter, neither was the Holocaust. All the bad things states do to kill people aren’t terrorism. A strategic bombing campaign that is targeting a military object but kills a lot of civilians isn’t terrorism. A strategic bombing campaign that is designed to terrify the population in the hopes they’ll stop fighting is terrorism. 
 

Terrorism is using violence against innocent people to spread fear in the hopes of advancing a political aim.  This is the Israeli government simply destroying shit and allowing Israelis to take it. Which is a crime. 

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Just now, 956 Worldwide said:

Ethnic cleansing/forced population transfer is a crime against humanity and arguably more serious than terrorism, not sure where you’re getting the “it’s OK” message from. 

As several have been so happy to point out, Hamas was elected by the Palestinian people. So they're the government. So their attacks aren't terrorism according to your twisted view, they're just war/an invasion. 

You've made some good points and some terrible ones. This is one of the terrible ones. The Israeli government has absolutely committed terroristic acts. So has the United States government. So have many governments. Most, in fact, of the most powerful nations in history have done so. 

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4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

As several have been so happy to point out, Hamas was elected by the Palestinian people. So they're the government. So their attacks aren't terrorism according to your twisted view, they're just war/an invasion. 

You've made some good points and some terrible ones. This is one of the terrible ones. The Israeli government has absolutely committed terroristic acts. So has the United States government. So have many governments. Most, in fact, of the most powerful nations in history have done so. 

The thing is that definitions matter if you want to get serious about combatting them. So, for example— Hamas’ attacks against military targets were not terroristic in nature while the kibbutz attack was. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has included terrorist acts but the invasion itself was the crime of aggression and not terrorism.  Israel has committed aces of terror, and Israeli settlers have too. Some U.S. bombing campaigns can be described as terror bombings, many more cannot be.  Nazis committed acts of terror against Jews and others, but what happened at Sobibor and Treblinka was the crime of genocide. 
 

As for Israel, their government and settlers have absolutely committed terrorism, but not all of their crimes are terror. Some have been even more serious. 

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6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The thing is that definitions matter if you want to get serious about combatting them. So, for example— Hamas’ attacks against military targets were not terroristic in nature while the kibbutz attack was. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has included terrorist acts but the invasion itself was the crime of aggression and not terrorism.  Israel has committed aces of terror, and Israeli settlers have too. Some U.S. bombing campaigns can be described as terror bombings, many more cannot be.  Nazis committed acts of terror against Jews and others, but what happened at Sobibor and Treblinka was the crime of genocide. 
 

As for Israel, their government and settlers have absolutely committed terrorism, but not all of their crimes are terror. Some have been even more serious. 

Oof.  This comes across as an attempt to distract or deflect as much as anything.

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1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Oof.  This comes across as an attempt to distract or deflect as much as anything.

Not at all, the definitions matter deeply especially if you ever want to pursue any sort of accountability against the actors. And it matters deeply if you’re trying to build any sort of coalition or consensus to take action 

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1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:


I have been incredibly vocal in the last few years about how Judaism and Israeli are not synonyms. Hearing Trump assume that he’ll win the Jewish vote purely because of something he did for Israel made my skin crawl. There’s a clear and obvious distinction between the two that can and should be made.

That being said, from what I’ve seen over the last week, the distinction is not important to most who are pro-Palestinian. A Jewish teacher in France was murdered yesterday. Jewish (not Israeli) museums in America hosted pro-Palestinian protests this week. Local Jewish owned business are getting negative review bombed by Palestinian sympathizers.

We all absolutely understand and appreciate the difference, we just also acknowledge that the opposition generally doesn’t give a fuck.

I understand this to an extent. As an ethnic Mexican I can separate American policies towards Mexico from more insidious policies that are primarily targeted at an ethnicity rather than nations south of the border.

I would also add that I don't hold you or Troph responsible as Texans for the actions of Abbott and the Texas legislature despite that government having a majority support by the citizens of Texas.

All of these things require nuance.

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10 minutes ago, F250 said:

I understand this to an extent. As an ethnic Mexican I can separate American policies towards Mexico from more insidious policies that are primarily targeted at an ethnicity rather than nations south of the border.

I would also add that I don't hold you or Troph responsible as Texans for the actions of Abbott and the Texas legislature despite that government having a majority support by the citizens of Texas.

All of these things require nuance.

I take my cues from those I know. There is a ton of overlap between Israel and the Jewish people from the Jewish folks I know - none of whom have ever lived in Israel. They think of Israel in a way that I do not see from people of other ethnicities who a live in the US or Canada and have never lived in the country most known for their ethnicity.   I don’t know how to describe it but it’s notably different. But within that group many are critical of the Israeli government for many things, but I’ll also say a lot of that has now been tempered and silenced in wake of the Hamas attacks. 

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2 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

Let’s be clear here. @chainsaw did not write what you attribute to him. In particular, he never blamed “the Jews.” He used the pronoun “they,” in response to this post which was about “Israel:”

His point was that Israel - a state, not an ethnic or religious group - could have done more to defend itself and its people, given what he thinks they knew at the time.

I’m not arguing that he’s right about that. But your paraphrasing of his statement is inaccurate and it unjustly implies a much darker meaning than I read in his post. 

First, you’re right, I’ve been using Jews and Israel interchangeably in this thread and thats wrong, and my mistake. I’ll own that.   
 

That being said, in this context, it is my opinion that subbing Israel for Jews doesn’t really make his comment any less dark. “If Israel doesn’t want their civilians slaughtered and raped, they should probably do a better job gathering intelligence” isn’t exactly an insight without implication and cruelty. 
 

Brisket’s last post verbalized my feelings very well. I’ve never once defended what has happened under Netanyahu’s government since 2006. He’s culpable. And so is Hamas, the government whose charter is Jewish genocide. But I don’t understand a mindset where folks fight to explain away the horrible actions Palestinians, because of what they’ve been subjected to, but act as if Israelis and Jews at large haven’t been subjected to atrocities.  As recently as last week. 
 

im also going to peace out of this for a bit. I’ve been accused of some grisly shit by some posters here the last couple of days, and I’ve gone out of my way to not get personal in response, and even show restraint, as much as I’m capable of such. I’m legitimately sad for what I know is coming. I hope afterwards the people of Israel are horrified enough to kick out Netanyahu’s government and his shitty path of hatred and elect people to reverse his autocratic policies and move in a better direction. That being said I’m not surprised Israel and any Jews who feel the same are sick and exhausted by always being expected to be the ones to change and work for peace with a group of people who’s leadership hasn’t seemed interested in peace the last 75 years. Not just the last 20, but the last 75. 

 

 

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Oh yeah, I left out fatty.

Don’t forget Poe. 

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I take my cues from those I know. There is a ton of overlap between Israel and the Jewish people from the Jewish folks I know - none of whom have ever lived in Israel. They think of Israel in a way that I do not see from people of other ethnicities who a live in the US or Canada and have never lived in the country most known for their ethnicity.   I don’t know how to describe it but it’s notably different. But within that group many are critical of the Israeli government for many things, but I’ll also say a lot of that has now been tempered and silenced in wake of the Hamas attacks. 

Well, yeah…at a major holiday meal, Jews worldwide say “next year, in Jerusalem.”
I’ve never been to a quincenera where any Mexicans say “next year, in Mexico City.”
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3 hours ago, G650 said:

Thank you.

 

I mean, we tolerated it to different degrees and obviously the nobility of what we were doing was a farce. A certain segment of our population that overlaps with Tony Keith tolerated it a lot more.

 

It's old history now, but given all that’s transpired in the past two decades, I still stand by my assertion the first 6 months of Afghanistan were the right call, and everything that followed was a train wreck.

I would say the first three years we were on the right track. I was sitting in the south with my boss. Here comes big army with Bradley's. He looks over and says yep, we lost. 

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2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I would say the first three years we were on the right track. I was sitting in the south with my boss. Here comes big army with Bradley's. He looks over and says yep, we lost. 

Idk man, once Osama got away at Tora Bora, to me it was all over except the crying. Getting to Kabul was good, but then we all know how the story ends at this point

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1 minute ago, G650 said:

Idk man, once Osama got away at Tora Bora, to me it was all over except the crying. Getting to Kabul was good, but then we all know how the story ends at this point

Nah, even in 2008 we were doing good things. And Kabul was at the end of the day irrelevant. The south and borders were the key and we went big army and static. 

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9 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Nah, even in 2008 we were doing good things. And Kabul was at the end of the day irrelevant. The south and borders were the key and we went big army and static. 

We going to have to agree to disagree

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2 hours ago, troph said:

I’m not sure it’s terrorism either but putting aside semantics governments can do atrocious things. There is still a massive difference between a terrorist organization like Hamas and the US or Israel and that distinction is made acknowledging these two governments have done some really really bad shit. The fact is these governments do good things for their people too, Hamas does not. Hezbollah does not. Other terrorist organizations throughout the world do not.

you can have harsh criticism for a government while recognizing the sharp distinction between a legitimate government and a terrorist organization 

“You have to be a real dishonest piece of shit to” sidestep this and demand agreement that the US and Israeli governments are terrorist organizations. 

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1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The thing is that definitions matter if you want to get serious about combatting them.

Suggest you look up the definition of anti-semitism and only use accordingly.  Using that term freely based on your feelings and emotional state rather than the actual words you are responding to, only serve to dilute and weaken the ability to combat true anti-semitism IMO. 

I don’t know if there is a similar danger with misusing the term terrorism.  It is mostly used by media and nation states to dehumanize the enemy, justify disproportionate responses, to justify large civilian sufferings/casualties, and to justify large military budgets, e.g., the war on terrorism. 
 

Obviously a nation state should protect itself against any form of attack (whether labeled terrorism, direct military attack, or social media manipulation), so I don’t see the use of the term terrorism as critical.  If a civilian bus is bombed, the state should respond accordingly whether it is defined as terrorism or not. The DOJ and FBI can parse definitions during law enforcement actions, but they aren’t going to be affected by the overuse of the term. 
 

But I will concede that right wing terrorism is a growing threat in the US, so maybe the overuse of the term weakens the ability of our population to properly respond.  So I agree that when dealing with US domestic acts of violence, a proper use of the term terrorism is important, but when dealing with foreign policy and justifying military actions, probably not

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20 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

A lot will. How did you like Afghanistan? 

I wasn't in Afghanistan, though I have many close friends that did a lot of time there. I'm just speaking to wisdom of what our mission was. Obviously a discussion for a whole 'nother topic there.

I absolutely want to be clear that I am massively proud of everyone who was there though doing work, the last thing I'd want is anyone to think I was belittling that in any way.

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6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Some of you guys need to actually break bread with people from the cultures and ethnicities that you seek to draw cartoons of. You might learn something about their views of the situation and the players involved.

the irony of this given some of your posting history is rich. 

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17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Some of you guys need to actually break bread with people from the cultures and ethnicities that you seek to draw cartoons of. You might learn something about their views of the situation and the players involved. 

 

10 minutes ago, troph said:

the irony of this given some of your posting history is rich. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

And then a few hours later

This is a very dangerous moment. 

It’s what some of us speculated was going on when the attacks first occurred. Connections to Russia/Ukraine are nearly assured at this point. 

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33 minutes ago, troph said:

the irony of this given some of your posting history is rich. 

There is no irony there troph, however much you may wish to manufacturer it for rhetorical value. Pretty lazy actually. 

Edited by Anastasis
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24 minutes ago, troph said:

It’s what some of us speculated was going on when the attacks first occurred. Connections to Russia/Ukraine are nearly assured at this point. 

I speculated the same thing. Biden and Blinken are clearly pursuing a primary objective  of keeping the conflict local, but that may not be possible. 

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