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The Robert Mueller Investigation


Hugo Stiglitz

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I’ve been saying for a while everyone was overly focused on the criminal side of the investigation which made it easy to forget this whole thing was a COUNTERINTELLIGENCE investigation FIRST.  
 


It’s hard to keep track when Trump is getting fucked more ways than Stormy Daniels.
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I have a feeling dotard will go radio silence on twitter for a few days and on his way to russia asking for asylum.

He is so fucked.

My fear now is the 35% of idiots who worship dotard...those fuckers will be scarier than actual terrorists abroad....some of dotards cultists will become terrorists and they’re already here. 35% of the country.

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55 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

And revel in this:  Trump said he was unaware of the investigation until the NYT story broke.   Guess who WAS aware the whole time, by virtue of his position and the reporting mandates of the FBI/DOJ?

 

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I wouldn’t be so sure. If I had to guess, I believe it went down as follows 

1.  Rod R didn’t like Comey due to the Hillary issue and also didn’t trust him to completely destroy Trump. 

2.  Rod baited Trump into firing Comey knowing it would cause the appointment of a special counsel by writing the letter trump used to justify Comeys firing.  

3. Rod egged on the FBI CI investigation of trump by turning over the letter trump wanted to send to Comey using the Russia issue as cause for the firing.

4. Rod knew by this time sessions would or had recused. He knew he would be in charge of mueller and he didn’t tell sessions jack shit using sessions recusal as an excuse. 

In short Rod took out two political enemies (Comey and trump) and neutered another (sessions) in one fell swoop. 

Edited by J.R.
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19 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I wouldn’t be so sure. If I had to guess, I believe it went down as follows 

1.  Rod R didn’t like Comey due to the Hillary issue and also didn’t trust him to completely destroy Trump. 

2.  Rod baited Trump into firing Comey knowing it would cause the appointment of a special counsel by writing the letter trump used to justify Comeys firing.  

3. Rod egged on the FBI CI investigation of trump by turning over the letter trump wanted to send to Comey using the Russia issue as cause for the firing.

4. Rod knew by this time sessions would or had recused. He knew he would be in charge of mueller and he didn’t tell sessions jack shit using sessions recusal as an excuse. 

In short Rod took out two political enemies (Comey and trump) and neutered another (sessions) in one fell swoop. 

And apparently this was all planned and partly executed before he was appointed by trump and confirmed by the senate.  Right on. 

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17 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I wouldn’t be so sure. If I had to guess, I believe it went down as follows 

1.  Rod R didn’t like Comey due to the Hillary issue and also didn’t trust him to completely destroy Trump. 

2.  Rod baited Trump into firing Comey knowing it would cause the appointment of a special counsel by writing the letter trump used to justify Comeys firing.  

3. Rod egged on the FBI CI investigation of trump by turning over the letter trump wanted to send to Comey using the Russia issue as cause for the firing.

4. Rod knew by this time sessions would or had recused. He knew he would be in charge of mueller and he didn’t tell sessions jack shit using sessions recusal as an excuse. 

In short Rod took out two political enemies (Comey and trump) and neutered another (sessions) in one fell swoop. 

Rod R is a straight arrow.  No personal biases being enacted.

 

Re 1 and 2.  - RR was asked to write a letter (some reports two letters, pro and con) re Comey.  They utilized the con letter in an attempt to make RR their shield.  That backfired on them: if you know Trump is a Russian agent, you play ball to remain an honorable firewall as DAG for the investigation.  Sessions recused, didn't meddle, and helped RR firewall stay intact.

Re 3. - RR didn't have that copy, McGahn did.  McGahn interviewed with Mueller for over 30 hours spanning 9 months during an ongoing counterintelligence investigation into Trump.  can u say trump-fucked ?

Re 4. - with Sessions' blessing.  Sessions, like McGahn, isn't anyone's patsy.

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3 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Rod R is a straight arrow.  No personal biases being enacted.

 

Re 1 and 2.  - RR was asked to write a letter (some reports two letters, pro and con) re Comey.  They utilized the con letter in an attempt to make RR their shield.  That backfired on them: if you know Trump is a Russian agent, you play ball to remain an honorable firewall as DAG for the investigation.  Sessions recused, didn't meddle, and helped RR firewall stay intact.

Re 3. - RR didn't have that copy, McGahn did.  McGahn interviewed with Mueller for over 30 hours spanning 9 months during an ongoing counterintelligence investigation into Trump.  can u say trump-fucked ?

Re 4. - with Sessions' blessing.  Sessions, like McGahn, isn't anyone's patsy.

I didn’t mean personal biases. I mean moving people out of the way you think are incompetent or don’t trust because you want to make sure the right thing is done for the country. I think Rod had a copy of the trump Comey letter as did mcgahn. Mcgahn COULD NOT have given his copy to the FBI. I have never heard rod wrote two letters. Source?

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RR didn't think Comey was 'incompetent' and nothing suggests he advocated Comey being fired.  Comey wasn't beyond reproach, and RR's letter reflected that.  RR did Trump's bidding with his letter which was then usurped to provide thin cover for Trump firing Comey.  But there was a far greater good RR was preserving by appearing cooperative with Trump.  RR did nothing that could be legitimately used as grounds for his removal as DAG with cause, same for Sessions as AG.  Trump openly fumed over this forever.  Sessions eventually allowed the appearance of resigning, after Mueller and FBI had completed a deep dive lasting at least 18 months.

Why would Rod have an unused draft of that Trump letter sitting in the WH ?  He wouldn't.  McGahn would, however.

The writing of two letters,  one pro/ one con re Comey by RR was rumored by people who are turning out to have been spot on about many major stories dating back to early 2017 about which MSM has been completely AWOL.

Edited by triplehorn
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18 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

You know, this feels like the 4th or 5th time something big has dropped and everyone has reacted with "holy shit he's so fucked!" and yet he remains, to this day, sitting there un-fucked.  

Same.  It's a "huge" deal on here, boards like this and twitter.....doesn't present a blip anywhere else, except CNN opinion shows.  

Wake me when someone who counts gives a shit. 

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14 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

RR didn't think Comey was 'incompetent' and nothing suggests he advocated Comey being fired.  Comey wasn't beyond reproach, and RR's letter reflected that.  RR did Trump's bidding with his letter which was then usurped to provide thin cover for Trump firing Comey.  But there was a far greater good RR was preserving by appearing cooperative with Trump.  RR did nothing that could be legitimately used as grounds for his removal as DAG with cause, same for Sessions as AG.  Trump openly fumed over this forever.  Sessions eventually allowed the appearance of resigning, after Mueller and FBI had completed a deep dive lasting at least 18 months.

Why would Rod have an unused draft of that Trump letter sitting in the WH ?  He wouldn't.  McGahn would, however.

The writing of two letters,  one pro/ one con re Comey by RR was rumored by people who are turning out to have been spot on about many major stories dating back to early 2017 about which MSM has been completely AWOL.

I very much think Rod might have determined Comey was incompetent. I read his book and I definitely question his competence. I have heard I think from Benjamin Wittes that Rod had a copy of Trumps letter for some reason. I know Mcgahn has been interviewed by mueller but that is not the same as acting as trumps lawyer and simultaneously as an informant. That’s creates some very complicated ethical issues. That is why I doubt mcgahn shared the letter. 

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It's all beyond treasonable doubt at this point. I want to know what is going to happen when/if Bitch McDonald, Ryan, the NRA, Nunes, Rohrbacher, Hannity, and half the Republican Party goes down too. Frankly, it's scary to think how the deplorables will react. Trump and family will be a big enough blow, but take all the rest and it could be earthshattering to their worldview.

For the sake of stability of the country, do they rationalize letting some of these pieces of shit off the hook? Yeah, I know most of the Trumpkins will just slouch back into their LazyBoys, but there are still some nutcases who're going to violently react.

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35 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I didn’t mean personal biases. I mean moving people out of the way you think are incompetent or don’t trust because you want to make sure the right thing is done for the country. I think Rod had a copy of the trump Comey letter as did mcgahn. Mcgahn COULD NOT have given his copy to the FBI. I have never heard rod wrote two letters. Source?

i don't have a source, but i dis-stink-ly remember it from that time.  it really stuck out in my memory because it was so shitty.  they tricked him into writing something negative and then buried the other letter.

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36 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

You know, this feels like the 4th or 5th time something big has dropped and everyone has reacted with "holy shit he's so fucked!" and yet he remains, to this day, sitting there un-fucked.  

Yep.  And that exactly the pattern that will continue, no matter how much else drops, and no matter how treasonous it proves to be.  Nothing of meaningful consequence will happen to Trump, his family, or anyone of significance in his administration.  Or anyone in the utterly corrupt and complicit R party, for that matter.  Just a lot (more) wishful thinking, handwringing, and internet and news chatter.  

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43 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

You know, this feels like the 4th or 5th time something big has dropped and everyone has reacted with "holy shit he's so fucked!" and yet he remains, to this day, sitting there un-fucked.  

but while all of his inner circle family members remain free to walk, it makes me think that the incrimination of this bunch will hit last.  He is fucked.  He didn't hire a bunch of lawyers recently for any other reason.  

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55 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

You know, this feels like the 4th or 5th time something big has dropped and everyone has reacted with "holy shit he's so fucked!" and yet he remains, to this day, sitting there un-fucked.  

This one is MUCH different.  

The single event that put me on the Russia crusade was when Comey got fired.  I freaked the fuck out because I knew if Trump took out the FBI, there would be NOTHING defending the country from what Russia was doing.  I saw it as a legitimate national security threat.  We could have been on our own.

Lucky for us, our guys in the FBI freaked out too and quietly did their jobs to get ALL the goods necessary to neutralize the threat that is Donald Trump.  

Trump is finished, it’s just a matter of how and when now.  I don’t see him making it to December. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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3 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

but while all of his inner circle family members remain free to walk, it makes me think that the incrimination of this bunch will hit last.  He is fucked.  He didn't hire a bunch of lawyers recently for any other reason.  

 

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32 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Same.  It's a "huge" deal on here, boards like this and twitter.....doesn't present a blip anywhere else, except CNN opinion shows.  

Wake me when someone who counts gives a shit. 

Would Mueller dropping 20+ indictments of Trump’s co-conspirators move the needle?  

Because something along those lines is probably around the corner. 

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1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

You know, this feels like the 4th or 5th time something big has dropped and everyone has reacted with "holy shit he's so fucked!" and yet he remains, to this day, sitting there un-fucked.  

Nothing is going to substantively happen to Trump until the Mueller report is filed and maybe not even then if his defense is effective.  These are all just teasers for what is going to be in the season finale.

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1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

You know, this feels like the 4th or 5th time something big has dropped and everyone has reacted with "holy shit he's so fucked!" and yet he remains, to this day, sitting there un-fucked.  

It’s  when he family members go down.  It was always about that.   That’s when we would know the shit was really hitting the fan   

And he’s not got a shutdown that he’s unwilling to end, and that is going to ramp up pressure on Republican Senators. 

Trump’s team is losing in the third-quarter, and he’s decided to play a prevent game plan. 

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1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

It’s  when he family members go down.  It was always about that.   That’s when we would know the shit was really hitting the fan   

And he’s not got a shutdown that he’s unwilling to end, and that is going to ramp up pressure on Republican Senators. 

Trump’s team is losing in the third-quarter, and he’s decided to play a prevent game plan. 

That, and total patience as you only get one shot.  You don't make a move that leaves room for a meaningful response from any direction.  No quarter.

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Great read from Ben Wittes at Lawfare: 

What if the Obstruction Was the Collusion? On the New York Times’s Latest Bombshell

This is a thorough write-up worth the long-ish read, but ultimately makes a case for Trump obstruction being inseparable from acts inclusive of the already established Russian Conspiracy against the US 18 U.S.C. § 371.

 

Quote

What is the significance of all of this? I have two big takeaways.

First, if this analysis is correct, it mostly—though not entirely—answers the question of the legal basis of the obstruction investigation. The president’s lawyers, Barr in his memo, and any number of conservative commentators have all argued that Mueller cannot reasonably be investigating obstruction offenses based on the president’s actions within his Article II powers in firing Comey; such actions, they contend, cannot possibly violate the obstruction laws. While this position is disputed, a great many other commentators, including me, have scratched their heads about Mueller’s obstruction theory.

But if the predicate for the investigation was rooted in substantial part in counterintelligence authorities—that is, if the theory was not just that the president may have violated the criminal law but also that he acted in a fashion that may constitute a threat to national security—that particular legal puzzle goes away. After all, the FBI doesn’t need a possible criminal violation to open a national security investigation.

The problem does not entirely go away, because as the Times reports, the probe was partly predicated as a criminal matter as well. So the question of Mueller’s criminal theory is still there. But the weight on it is dramatically less.

This possibility, of course, raises a different legal puzzle, which is whether and under what circumstances the president can be a national security investigative subject of his own FBI given that it is ultimately he who defines national security threats for the executive branch. But that’s a question for another day.

Second, if it is correct that the FBI’s principal interest in obstruction was not as a discrete criminal fact pattern but as a national security threat, this significantly blurs the distinction between the obstruction and collusion aspects of the investigation. In this construction, obstruction was not a problem distinct from collusion, as has been generally imagined. Rather, in this construction, obstruction was the collusion, or at least part of it. The obstruction of justice statutes become, in this understanding, merely one set of statutes investigators might think about using to deal with a national security risk—specifically, the risk of a person on the U.S. side coordinating with or supporting Russian activity by shutting down the investigation.

It was about Russia. It was always about Russia. Full stop.

 

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2 hours ago, yaqdum said:

i don't have a source, but i dis-stink-ly remember it from that time.  it really stuck out in my memory because it was so shitty.  they tricked him into writing something negative and then buried the other letter.

I cannot find support for this anywhere. But I did learn that RR was supposed to have a meeting in the Oval with Sessions, bowed out at the last minute, then called Sessions out of the middle of the meeting to tell him he had appointed Mueller and then Sessions had to go back in and tell Trump that piece of good news. RR is playing a very long game I am telling you. 

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2 hours ago, bolverk said:

For the sake of stability of the country, do they rationalize letting some of these pieces of shit off the hook? Yeah, I know most of the Trumpkins will just slouch back into their LazyBoys, but there are still some nutcases who're going to violently react. [emphasis added]

Rationality don't even enter into it.  Cult of personality gets in the way of that.

Trump will continue to publicly rage and divide until his megaphone is taken away.  Friends, family, and Mitch show insufficient backbone.  If Trump incites violence with his words and deeds, at some point someone will have to.  Who will that be?  When's his final tweet?  (Happy thought.)

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Is the whole “nothing will happen to trump” thing a defensive mechanism? Obviously Brisket has completely lost his mind, but reasonable posters  are seemingly aware of what’s unfolding and still  convinced trump isn’t completely fucked here.

I don’t get it.

Edited by DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt
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7 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Is the whole “nothing will happen to trump” thing a defensive mechanism? Obviously Brisket has completely lost his mind, but reasonable posters  are seemingly aware of what’s unfolding and still  convinced trump isn’t completely fucked here.

I don’t get it.

It’s because people have made a calculation that the GOP senators won’t convict, Trump won’t resign, and a president can’t be indicted. 

It’s a reasonable calculation but it ignores that this is BY FAR the single biggest scandal in US history and the political environment can change on a dime. 

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Is the whole “nothing will happen to trump” thing a defensive mechanism? Obviously Brisket has completely lost his mind, but reasonable posters  are seemingly aware of what’s unfolding and still  convinced trump isn’t completely fucked here.
I don’t get it.


I just don’t have faith that 2/3 of the senate will convict no matter what the evidence shows.

There are 53 Republicans in the senate, 45 Democrats, and 2 Independents.

For argument’s sake, let’s assume all Democrats and Independents are votes to impeach. That’s 47.

Now convince me there are TWENTY Republican senators with a spine, a set of balls, an ounce of courage to do what’s right and vote yes on impeachment if it means the Cult 45 voters in their states will punish them by primarying them.

Irrefutable evidence won’t matter.

The security of America won’t matter.

The rule of law won’t matter.

Winning and owning the libs is all that matters to them.

I foolishly hope they prove my cynicism wrong.

But my head and their behavior over the last few years tell me I’m correct.

I think we can survive this (I’m not totally Brisket Broken yet) because I think we the people will defeat him in 2020. The voters will be forced to take the responsibility the Republicans in Washington have abdicated.

And I predict all these scared pussies not doing the right thing now because they’re afraid of losing power are going to be damned and lose their power anyway because the people are going to boot them out on their soft, traitorous asses along with Trump.
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I just don’t have faith that 2/3 of the senate will convict no matter what the evidence shows.

There are 53 Republicans in the senate, 45 Democrats, and 2 Independents.

For argument’s sake, let’s assume all Democrats and Independents are votes to impeach. That’s 47.

Now convince me there are TWENTY Republican senators with a spine, a set of balls, an ounce of courage to do what’s right and vote yes on impeachment if it means the Cult 45 voters in their states will punish them by primarying them.

Irrefutable evidence won’t matter.

The security of America won’t matter.

The rule of law won’t matter.

Winning and owning the libs is all that matters to them.

I foolishly hope they prove my cynicism wrong.

But my head and their behavior over the last few years tell me I’m correct.

I think we can survive this (I’m not totally Brisket Broken yet) because I think we the people will defeat him in 2020. The voters will be forced to take the responsibility the Republicans in Washington have abdicated.

And I predict all these scared pussies not doing the right thing now because they’re afraid of losing power are going to be damned and lose their power anyway because the people are going to boot them out on their soft, traitorous asses along with Trump.

What type of Scotch do you like?
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12 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 


I just don’t have faith that 2/3 of the senate will convict no matter what the evidence shows.

There are 53 Republicans in the senate, 45 Democrats, and 2 Independents.

For argument’s sake, let’s assume all Democrats and Independents are votes to impeach. That’s 47.

Now convince me there are TWENTY Republican senators with a spine, a set of balls, an ounce of courage to do what’s right and vote yes on impeachment if it means the Cult 45 voters in their states will punish them by primarying them.

Irrefutable evidence won’t matter.

The security of America won’t matter.

The rule of law won’t matter.

Winning and owning the libs is all that matters to them.

I foolishly hope they prove my cynicism wrong.

But my head and their behavior over the last few years tell me I’m correct.

I think we can survive this (I’m not totally Brisket Broken yet) because I think we the people will defeat him in 2020. The voters will be forced to take the responsibility the Republicans in Washington have abdicated.

And I predict all these scared pussies not doing the right thing now because they’re afraid of losing power are going to be damned and lose their power anyway because the people are going to boot them out on their soft, traitorous asses along with Trump.

 

It only needs to be in the political interest of the GOP senators to convict.

If Mueller comes out and nails Trump six ways to Sunday on things like espionage, obstruction, conspiracy to defraud, money laundering, bank fraud, tax fraud, graft, unregistered foreign agent,  and even seditious conspiracy...

How is that going to play in a senate trial after a house impeachment? 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It only needs to be in the political interest of the GOP senators to convict.

If Mueller comes out and nails Trump six ways to Sunday on things like espionage, obstruction, conspiracy to defraud, money laundering, bank fraud, tax fraud, graft, unregistered foreign agent,  and even seditious conspiracy...

How is that going to play? 

It will be politically untenable for the majority of them to not convict. There isn’t going to be anywhere for anyone to hide once this investigation is complete. The depths of his criminality will be staggering.

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10 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

I just don’t have faith that 2/3 of the senate will convict no matter what the evidence shows.

 

 Said it before: the biggest wild card is Congressional GOP leadership getting indicted and/or a RICO charges for money laundering rubles getting unsealed against the RNC.  Did anyone forget about the Feds raiding Strategic Research Group in Maryland back in that pivotal Spring of ‘17? That raid was about organizational crime, not individual.  

Anyone think Mitch McConnell getting perp walked won’t change the Senate tune ?  It sounds unimaginable, but Trump isn’t alone in this.  I’m convinced the conduct of GOP leadership is driven by fear of their complicit corruption being exposed more than fear of Dotard’s loyal base of suckers.

Expose that and it’s over.

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15 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It only needs to be in the political interest of the GOP senators to convict.

If Mueller comes out and nails Trump six ways to Sunday on things like espionage, obstruction, conspiracy to defraud, money laundering, bank fraud, tax fraud, graft, unregistered foreign agent,  and even seditious conspiracy...

How is that going to play in a senate trial after a house impeachment? 

Mitch will block the trial.

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3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is true.  However, the fact we just learned the FBI has been secretly spying on Trump for over a year shouldn’t go under-appreciated.

Nothingburger

No, it’s all going down imminently, and there is no telling what else eventually comes out.  I just don’t think he’s going to feel anything other than foreboding dread until Mueller’s report drops.  Those that have the power to hold him accountable are not going to act before that.

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