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Hey PK -- What would you say you do here?


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Well, the Longhorns’ defense played just a tad bit worse than the Huskies last night, but at least it came down to the very last play of the game.
12-2 and a top four finish ain’t a bad season for Texas after an unprecedented 12 years of sucking. Sark definitely has the Horns heading in the right direction - faster to the top than DKR and Brown did.

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Penix has been sacked 15 total times in 27 career games at Washington and his OL just won the damn Joe Moore award. The thought that we were going to win this game with sacks and pressure was delusional.

We were going to have to hold up in the backend to have any sort of chance on defense. We failed and then got ball controlled most of the second half.

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7 hours ago, Ricky Butler said:

We’re moving to the SEC.

which means we'll be the only team on the league that doesn't grab receivers at the LOS unless we learn to use our fucking hands for something besides windmills 30 yards down field.

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29 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Pass defense starts upfront. 40 dropbacks and no sacks.

In spite of what happened on the back-end, the pass rush had little positive impact. Not only no negative plays, but limited hits, throwaways, throw before he was ready type plays.

why is it our blitzers always make the other teams running backs look like Walter fucking Payton picking up a blitz?

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1 hour ago, MotownHorn said:

We finally blitzed in the 4th quarter and pretty much shut them down. Should have been doing that all game. Penix had all fucking day back there for the first 3 quarterS

It’s funny how narratives work. Washington held the ball for 5:35 in the 4th quarter on drives that went punt, 10 play drive that ended in a FG deep in Texas territory and the final drive where they were obviously running clock to try to get out of there. 
 

We didn’t shut shit down and blitzing had very little to do with the drive outcomes.

Edited by Hookem2147
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Washington was the better team!!

Point Blank Period!! 
 

The stuff those WR we’re doing is next level, no different from LSU in 2019, we just didn’t know it yet.  Washington is just a better team 🤷🏽‍♂️
 

The future is bright for this team . Our best DB’s are underclassman. Hill will be a monster . We just have to continue to build. This game just showed us we need a pass rusher who can win in the worse way as well as speed/Smarts on the back end. I think Catalon would have helped us today but at the end of the day when Penix can pat the ball and throw bombs off his back foot, is really nothing new can do. 
 

I might be in the minority but I thought our DB’s didn’t play that bad. We need speed in the worse way but with everything in perspective , you can’t ask any secondary to cover a WR core like Washington’s for that long!! 

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1 hour ago, Atticus said:

We blitzed throughout the game guys. Their OL far outplayed ours in pass pro. 

Part of that is Quinn in the pocket. Part of that is individual OL failures. Part of that is a guy like Bralen Trice being too much for our guys.

I saw a few snaps where Their TE Westover was blocking Sorrell 1 on 1. Can you imagine JT Sanders even coming close to doing that on Trice or ZTF?

 

We finally started getting some pressure near the end, but Penix was more than able to handle it by moving in and out of the pocket. 

blitzers getting stoned at the line means we never blitz, I've learned that in game threads.

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1 hour ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Exactly. We need a more aggressive DC. He’s a very conservative DC and doesn’t take many risks, I’d like some more balance towards the aggressive side with blitzes and tight bump coverage that’s mixed in with zone coverage, base D play. 

 

what you described is what we did last night.  we blitzed all game but they were picked up.  half of our blitzes we dropped one of the DEs in coverage which didn't help.  what should've changed was our blitz packages.  as far as i saw they stayed the same all game.  our corners actually played pretty aggressively.  i'd like to see our safeties come up to the LOS on zones to take away those cushions also but well, it's a zone...  washington did well to exploit that.  that said i'm not a fan of PK and after 3 years i haven't really seen anything i'd consider to be an improvement from development or coaching.  

not picking on you, didn't want to have a string of 4 requotes to different people. 

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Honestly, I thought the defense played pretty well at first glance.  There were no coverage busts and hardly any soft coverage giving up easy 10 yard outs.  The deep shots were all absolute dimes by an NFL starter level QB.  We generated decent pressure I thought as well.  Against any other QB that doesn't have the elite pocket presence and quick release that Penix has, we would've had half a dozen sacks.  Maybe I'm being too soft on PK, but I think this was a case of solid defense being beat by elite offense.

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12 minutes ago, gurt said:

Honestly, I thought the defense played pretty well at first glance.  There were no coverage busts and hardly any soft coverage giving up easy 10 yard outs.  The deep shots were all absolute dimes by an NFL starter level QB.  We generated decent pressure I thought as well.  Against any other QB that doesn't have the elite pocket presence and quick release that Penix has, we would've had half a dozen sacks.  Maybe I'm being too soft on PK, but I think this was a case of solid defense being beat by elite offense.

Nah I think you hit it. That offense we played is definitely underrated and may be up there with that 2019 LSU offense. 

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I knew their O line is very good but they may just be the best in football. That combined with Penix’s pocket presence was a recipe for disaster.

PK could have probably tried to be even more aggressive but Penix would have had even more explosive plays. They were simply better and we were shell-shocked.

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20 minutes ago, gurt said:

The deep shots were all absolute dimes by an NFL starter level QB. 

This. Those deep passes were dropping into the receivers hands like they were laser guided. Even more impressive was how Penix could throw like that while dodging a pass rusher.

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As I said in the game thread, our secondary is not very talented, Washington's line prevented us from getting any pressure, Penix is ridiculously accurate, and their wide receivers run great routes and catch everything.
What sorcery was PK supposed to have used to counter all of that?

Their hair and a doll. We were in New Orleans after all
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9 hours ago, Texasrocks said:

I'd be more willing to buy this argument if the secondary didn't struggle against KSU, Houston, etc.

This. We were a bad spot away from losing to fucking Houston. Statistically our zone defense was awful all year.

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I'm pleased to read this page. We knew our weaknesses with edge-rush and safeties going into this. 

When they were killing us as we rushed four, I thought, "Why not increase the pressure if you can't stop the completions." Clearly, I'm some sort of football genius because that's what we appeared to do.

Pressuring Penix isn't enough, evidently. He forced to leave the pocket or stand in the middle of closing rushers and still found receivers and delivered beautiful passes. 

Better edge rush and safety play may have blunted their attack.

Our problems lie in shooting off our foot on offense with stupid penalties and vulnerability to the blitz, I think. I wonder if Washington saw something about the trajectory of Ewers' passes and actually schemed to bat down passes.

Hats off to the Huskies. They hot-dogged it and behaved like dicks, but I compliment their play.

So  close we were. So promising the future.

Edited by RomaVicta
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I thought our blitz packages for most of the game last night sucked. We kept bringing slow developing delayed blitzes and Penix + the Washington OL recognized and picked them up almost every time - they are just too experienced and good at recognition for that kind of scheme. We didn't do anything for most of the game to disrupt the rhythm of their passing game.

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It was hard to blame PK for this game. Penix went 2019 Burrow vs OU on us. Throwing lasers all night. Washington had zero drops. Dropping dimes on passes 40-50yds in the air. Wish we brought a little more pressure but we never got home on any of them so Penix might have gotten more big plays.

One of my beefs was playing way too soft on some of these plays. Allowing Washington easy pitch and catches to get a very short 3rd or 4th down. In the 2nd half on their first drive, I think they immediately got into a 2nd a 8. We play way off, like more than 10 yards cushion. They get an easy gain to make the 3rd down too easy to pick it up.

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There wasn’t really any coverage busts. It was mostly our guys not good enough. That is an elite offense.

There were some questionable coaching but it wasn’t that bad to cost us the game. He was going Joe burrow on us and we still could’ve won with barely having the ball in the second and fumbling most of our second half possessions. So crazy to think.

For a second I thought we were gonna get blown out but we held it together + Washington questionable offense calls. Can’t really be mad at anyone. I’m sad af lol but not mad. They were easily the better teams. We did not look good from the jump and had 2 fumbles and still could’ve won. That’s mind boggling to me.

I know the game was close but I could feel it in the first half. I knew our guys couldn’t hope up penix was throwing dimes and our offense didn’t look great. Ad and worthy were non existent really. But then somehow all that happened. What a game. Proud of them. They were all emotional after the game. It is what it is.

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Rod b mentioned in the post game that Washington often used motion and shifts to put a wr outside of their (initial) outside receiver, turning our outside corners into slot corners. It fucked up our leverage and assignments and we had no answer all game. I noticed this several times at the game from my shit end zone seats, but was not smart enough to appreciate the implications. Unfortunately, I don’t think PK was either.

We played two good passing teams all year and got shredded both times. Sark needs to self scout and make some adjustments on the defensive side. Just upgrading talent alone is not going to fix the issue.

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If there is a question I would ask PK, it would be why wasnt Sweat and Murphy in the game on 4th and 1? Washington tried to get Texas to jump on 4th and 1. Called timeout. I am pretty sure DaBeor or someone noticed that Trill Carter and Broughton were at DT. He sent the offense back out and ran it for 2 yards. 

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I think it was “simple” to see.
Penix was a beast and so were his WRs. They played lights out. Most of those big plays our DBs were right there. Uggh. Our offense started slow and the two fumbles really really hurt us. Hard to watch. Not really over it but oh well.

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blitzers getting stoned at the line means we never blitz, I've learned that in game threads.

Yep.

And as for why we can’t find a monster pass rusher, beats me. But we also need to remember those are a bit rare.

I’d speculate that part of that starts with taking away either the pass or run game. We elect to take away the run game. That’s easier than taking away the pass game. So you take a raw Ant Hill and make him an every down player. So he’s really got to work on his entire game and the run game. I’d speculate that his pregame prep leans more heavily towards a non-pass rush focus.

Now, let’s think about his most effective pass rush game. I’d go Bama. And from what I recall, he was a situational 3rd down guy. The QB is yours. Go get him.

You never know early season, but in the end, we might have had a better chance versus UW had they let Gbenda continue getting many reps throughout the season and allowing Hill to predominantly focus on getting after the QB. I’m not sure how it worked scheme-wise but think Collin Oliver as a frosh versus now.
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Penix has been sacked 15 total times in 27 career games at Washington and his OL just won the damn Joe Moore award. The thought that we were going to win this game with sacks and pressure was delusional.
We were going to have to hold up in the backend to have any sort of chance on defense. We failed and then got ball controlled most of the second half.

So you’re saying as a team we are not there yet.

They obviously pass block well, but of those 27 games, they’ve only played 1 playoff participant to my knowledge. You cannot realistically expect the back-end to hold up if the QB is not made uncomfortable. At any level.
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8 hours ago, D3zii said:

Nah I think you hit it. That offense we played is definitely underrated and may be up there with that 2019 LSU offense. 

I get the sentiment but LSU had about 8500 yards of offense,  6000+ passing and about 2500 rushing.

Wash is about 4900 passing and 1700 rushing. 

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1 hour ago, Had Enough said:


So you’re saying as a team we are not there yet.

They obviously pass block well, but of those 27 games, they’ve only played 1 playoff participant to my knowledge. You cannot realistically expect the back-end to hold up if the QB is not made uncomfortable. At any level.

IMO, it takes a good coverage gameplan to minimize and try to slow down that offense, not a gameplan centered around pressure.

Penix in that offense just isn’t getting hit or sacked often. It’s been 27 games now and I get what you are referencing in regards to the competition level, but it is what it is at this point. That offense probably loves when teams turn up the heat because of the playmakers they have and Penix’s ability to move around in the pocket.

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IMO, it takes a good coverage gameplan to minimize and try to slow down that offense, not a gameplan centered around pressure.
Penix in that offense just isn’t getting hit or sacked often. It’s been 27 games now and I get what you are referencing in regards to the competition level, but it is what it is at this point. That offense probably loves when teams turn up the heat because of the playmakers they have and Penix’s ability to move around in the pocket.

There’s no doubt they’ll take the matchups with anyone if you choose to blitz.

My hope was to create some pressure and play coverage behind it. We didn’t really do either. I would have been ok with us attempting to make them take what the defense is giving, but you cant really do that with 5 DBs when they have 3 above average WRs and a good pass catching TE. A good play caller is going to find 1v1 matchups.

We needed Murphy to create interior pressure and that Sorrel and Burke could collapse the pocket some. Burke did get some pressure but the others rush lanes were broken when that did occur. Any press coverage was asking for trouble. Muhammad and Holmes might have been fine there but Holmes hardly played.

We’re a run first defense and until that changes we’re vulnerable to the pass game. Great pass rushers and cover corners are difficult to find
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8 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm pleased to read this page. We knew our weaknesses with edge-rush and safeties going into this. 

When they were killing us as we rushed four, I thought, "Why not increase the pressure if you can't stop the completions." Clearly, I'm some sort of football genius because that's what we appeared to do.

Pressuring Penix isn't enough, evidently. He forced to leave the pocket or stand in the middle of closing rushers and still found receivers and delivered beautiful passes. 

Better edge rush and safety play may have blunted their attack.

Our problems lie in shooting off our foot on offense with stupid penalties and vulnerability to the blitz, I think. I wonder if Washington saw something about the trajectory of Ewers' passes and actually schemed to bat down passes.

Hats off to the Huskies. They hot-dogged it and behaved like dicks, but I compliment their play.

So  close we were. So promising the future.

I was thinking no way Penix could sustain this for two halves, but he did enough.  But despite Penix and two fumbles and a shit third quarter, the Longhorns still had a chance.  Texas also had a big hand in beating themselves.  

Edit: Shit, UT8 beat me to it. 

Edited by Mdhorn
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The one thing I was hoping for was for PK to find a way to get Ant Hill loose as a maniac pass rusher.  He should have been coming from any and all angles.  I'm not sure how he would have had to adjust on the back end, but some type of change up would have been nice to see.   I feel like he played it conservative - stick to what got us here - and it was almost good enough.  

Still think PK is the right guy, and believe they'll continue to improve.  Go Horns!

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The one thing I was hoping for was for PK to find a way to get Ant Hill loose as a maniac pass rusher.  He should have been coming from any and all angles.  I'm not sure how he would have had to adjust on the back end, but some type of change up would have been nice to see.   I feel like he played it conservative - stick to what got us here - and it was almost good enough.  
Still think PK is the right guy, and believe they'll continue to improve.  Go Horns!

What if I told you Hills pressure rate is the lowest of any LB (top 3 each year) since PK arrived? What about if he had the fewest tackles per play over the past 3 years?

The numbers inside the numbers can be quite interesting. The truth is that Hills season is based more on hype/recruiting profile than production. Gbenda had a higher pressure rate, higher sack per pass rush rate, higher tackle rate on run plays, higher tackle rate overall per play, and his tackles in the run game were made closer to the line of scrimmage on average. Completion % in coverage is basically the same. Gbenda has 1 forced incompletion and 1 pass defensed. Hill has one dropped interception. The average yards per completion favor Hill. Both gave up 1 TD. Hill had more targets and played more coverage snaps.

You can reconcile that however you like.
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Obviously, this has kept me up.

No doubt Hill has much time left and tons of improvement will occur. But there’s not tons of statistical support to say that he’d be a factor versus UW. Half his sacks were in game 2 in which he was playing a different role. And he was going against 8th year Covid seniors versus UW.

In retrospect, we might have been better off letting him work the pass rush specialist role rather than work on being a full time LB. But at this point, we’re better off the next two years because of all the reps he got.

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2 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Obviously, this has kept me up.

No doubt Hill has much time left and tons of improvement will occur. But there’s not tons of statistical support to say that he’d be a factor versus UW. Half his sacks were in game 2 in which he was playing a different role. And he was going against 8th year Covid seniors versus UW.

In retrospect, we might have been better off letting him work the pass rush specialist role rather than work on being a full time LB. But at this point, we’re better off the next two years because of all the reps he got.

I think Hill will be really really good but he got caught up inside so many times this year it was frustrating, but it's what freshman linebackers do. Too much hype for the Alabama game.

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47 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

I think Hill will be really really good but he got caught up inside so many times this year it was frustrating, but it's what freshman linebackers do. Too much hype for the Alabama game.

Hill is going to be fine. Playing off-ball LB takes some time to get going. The difference in the bowl game might of been Trice. That guy got 2 Sacks, 8 pressures, 1 caused fumble, and 3 TFLs. He is a 1st round guy.. Texas has nobody to compare to that. We are talking about a true freshmen getting pressure. The lack of a quality pass rusher  has been one of the biggest glaring weaknesses of this team, since PK got to Austin. Hopefully, Trey Moore can fill that need next year and some of the younger guys start to grow up. 

Edited by Codaxx
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10 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Hill is going to be fine. Playing off-ball LB takes some time to get going. The difference in the bowl game might of been Trice. That guy got 2 Sacks, 8 pressures, 1 caused fumble, and 3 TFLs. He is a 1st round guy.. Texas has nobody to compare to that. We are talking about a true freshmen getting pressure. The lack of a quality pass rusher  has been one of the biggest glaring weaknesses of this team, since PK got to Austin. Hopefully, Trey Moore can fill that need next year and some of the younger guys start to grow up. 

I thought what was interesting about Trice is that they had him lined up on Kelvin but Kelvin was doing well vs him so they moved him to the other side and put him at some different spots to attack Jones/Campbell.

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14 hours ago, Hookem2147 said:

IMO, it takes a good coverage gameplan to minimize and try to slow down that offense, not a gameplan centered around pressure.

Penix in that offense just isn’t getting hit or sacked often. It’s been 27 games now and I get what you are referencing in regards to the competition level, but it is what it is at this point. That offense probably loves when teams turn up the heat because of the playmakers they have and Penix’s ability to move around in the pocket.

Well, it also helped that Penix turned into a player that he hasn't been all season.  Historically, getting pressure (which we did) should be enough to rattle Penix, even if you don't get home.  Unfortunately, he just became Superman for a few hours.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

For defense discussion, Klatt talks about success of Michigan and Baltimore Ravens defensive scheme...

1:45 mark

 

Big DTs run front, Hard Edges with rush DE's,  hybrid players at Nickel, LB and safeties (like Jelani McDonald)  and solid coverage corners.

 

Edited by LTtxfan
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12 hours ago, Had Enough said:


What if I told you Hills pressure rate is the lowest of any LB (top 3 each year) since PK arrived? What about if he had the fewest tackles per play over the past 3 years?

The numbers inside the numbers can be quite interesting. The truth is that Hills season is based more on hype/recruiting profile than production. Gbenda had a higher pressure rate, higher sack per pass rush rate, higher tackle rate on run plays, higher tackle rate overall per play, and his tackles in the run game were made closer to the line of scrimmage on average. Completion % in coverage is basically the same. Gbenda has 1 forced incompletion and 1 pass defensed. Hill has one dropped interception. The average yards per completion favor Hill. Both gave up 1 TD. Hill had more targets and played more coverage snaps.

You can reconcile that however you like.

I'd probably say you likely have more detailed knowledge of the situation.  And while I don't know that I'm suckered in by the hype, I'll say that I've seen flashes of his speed and athleticism, so I tried to project.  

Maybe Gbenda is used differently, maybe PK wants to bring Hill along slowly, maybe Gbenda is just better at this point in his career.  My hypothesis was simply take the guy that is crazy athletic, and was described by Jaylan Ford as the most violent player on the defense, and say "see the QB wearing purple? Sic 'em!!!"  

PK chose a 'dance with who brung ya' approach, and we nearly won, so I can't criticize.   I just wonder if there was a way we could have gotten Penix uncomfortable. 

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I'd probably say you likely have more detailed knowledge of the situation.  And while I don't know that I'm suckered in by the hype, I'll say that I've seen flashes of his speed and athleticism, so I tried to project.  
Maybe Gbenda is used differently, maybe PK wants to bring Hill along slowly, maybe Gbenda is just better at this point in his career.  My hypothesis was simply take the guy that is crazy athletic, and was described by Jaylan Ford as the most violent player on the defense, and say "see the QB wearing purple? Sic 'em!!!"  
PK chose a 'dance with who brung ya' approach, and we nearly won, so I can't criticize.   I just wonder if there was a way we could have gotten Penix uncomfortable. 

All those are good descriptors of Hill. I remember a body slam tackle that was inspiring. He does attack very strong when he has a clear path. It’s probably just experience.

I was hopeful that we’d get after Penix better. We didn’t and when we did, he escaped.
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3 minutes ago, Had Enough said:


All those are good descriptors of Hill. I remember a body slam tackle that was inspiring. He does attack very strong when he has a clear path. It’s probably just experience.

I was hopeful that we’d get after Penix better. We didn’t and when we did, he escaped.

 

We threw about everything at Penix....he was just on.

 

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We threw about everything at Penix....he was just on.
 

In retrospect, I’m not totally surprised by the number of pressures. We had 2/3 real good shots at sacks. He had several very quick reads in which there’s virtually no way to get there. On the season we averaged around 21 per game so our pressure was on par with our average.

Penix was great. Mobile, decisive, accurate.
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On 1/3/2024 at 11:15 PM, Had Enough said:


In retrospect, I’m not totally surprised by the number of pressures. We had 2/3 real good shots at sacks. He had several very quick reads in which there’s virtually no way to get there. On the season we averaged around 21 per game so our pressure was on par with our average.

Penix was great. Mobile, decisive, accurate.

I am startign to think the pressure stat is BS. I know Texas did get some pressure, but there is no way I believe the 20 pressure number. I thought I watched the game pretty closely and I do not remember Texas pressuring Penix on half his attempts. 

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On 1/3/2024 at 10:59 AM, LTtxfan said:

For defense discussion, Klatt talks about success of Michigan and Baltimore Ravens defensive scheme...

1:45 mark

 

Big DTs run front, Hard Edges with rush DE's,  hybrid players at Nickel, LB and safeties (like Jelani McDonald)  and solid coverage corners.

 

MIchigan is going to be a very interesting game to watch.. Probably the best offense vs the best defense. I think Michigan has some of the best coverage and blitz packages in the country. They obviously stole the defense from the Ravens. They do some nice things in masking coverages. I would love PK to do a deep dive on that defense. It fits very well with his philosophy. 

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1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

I am startign to think the pressure stat is BS. I know Texas did get some pressure, but there is no way I believe the 20 pressure number. I thought I watched the game pretty closely and I do not remember Texas pressuring Penix on half his attempts. 

I wouldn't say it's BS, but it is certainly subjective. Sacks and hits are easy to measure, but "hurries" seems to vary wildly depending on who is doing the measuring. Is it any time the QB has to leave the pocket? Is it only when there's a near miss? 

PFF does seem to be an outlier in terms of overcounting pressure. For example:

 

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