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What are y’all buying for the next grid failure?


Homercles

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5 minutes ago, crimsonlonghorn said:

This what Mrs CL and I are discussing this morning to add to our house plans. Solar panels and the backup generator are probably redundant, but I'd rather spend money up front than not in case the weather prevents the solar panels from working right.

Only problem is that the back of the house with the best real estate for solar panels will face NE which is the worst direction to point the panels. We probably won't get as much from the panels as we would hope. We probably don't want to put the panels on the front of the house because of the angles and aesthetics. 

We were on vacation for a whole week last August, which is why July was the highest month without having the highest day or hour. 

935214394_ScreenShot2021-02-19at10_06_26.png.7f4a99ab1446571777ba0b77a015fd40.png

Someone check my math. I have no idea if this is right or not, but it seems to be in the right order of magnitude. 

 

Balla. But I think the generator + solar/powerwall combo is probably a bit too complicated to be worthwhile. For that size house you'd likely need 40kw generator to account for peak loads (e.g., air conditioners/heaters starting). And integrating both powerwalls and a generator to work well together is going to be a pain. Personally, I'd go all in on one or the other.  And, if you want your solar array to really contribute, you're easily looking at 20+ kw system to get a substantial benefit for that size house. Otherwise, you're really just generating like 20% of your needs, so what is the point? 

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2 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Are you going from like to like WRT insulation, efficiency of appliances/HVAC, etc?  Makes a big difference. My previous house was 1600sq ft and had a 4 ton AC unit probably 14 or 16 SEER that ran all day during the summer, two story blown insulation. My new house is 3k sq ft and has a 4 ton AC 20 SEER that usually runs in first stage, easily half the usage of my previous house. The new house is single story, sealed envelope spray foam. It can throw a lot of your numbers way off.

Yeah, the current house is 30 years old with batt insulation and older appliances. Architect and builder are still discussing insulation needs in the new one (i.e. blown vs foam), but either way it will be more efficient and modernly constructed with modern appliances, so the per foot energy consumption should be lower. How much lower, I don't know, but the increase in overall size should still cause some level of increase in overall consumption. I can't see it going down, but it's definitely not going to double, either. 

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1 hour ago, fuggled said:

If it's just for emergencies: https://www.cargenerator.com/

image.png.19773182a86a71814949bd7db175e19b.png

that's really interesting.  the 1 kW is $695 CAD right now which is like $550 USD.  you can get a similar inverter generator for $300 so if you get this instead you're basically paying $250 for the ease of not having to deal with maintenance and gas/propane/NG input.  worth it?

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4 minutes ago, crimsonlonghorn said:

Yeah, the current house is 30 years old with batt insulation and older appliances. Architect and builder are still discussing insulation needs in the new one (i.e. blown vs foam), but either way it will be more efficient and modernly constructed with modern appliances, so the per foot energy consumption should be lower. How much lower, I don't know, but the increase in overall size should still cause some level of increase in overall consumption. I can't see it going down, but it's definitely not going to double, either. 

If your architect and builder are advocating for anything less than spray foam get a new architect and builder. You can absolutely reduce your electrical usage in a bigger home with just that. You need roughly half the HVAC capacity alone due to the insulation gain. 

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4 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

that's really interesting.  the 1 kW is $695 CAD right now which is like $550 USD.  you can get a similar inverter generator for $300 so if you get this instead you're basically paying $250 for the ease of not having to deal with maintenance and gas/propane/NG input.  worth it?

I question the long-term impacts this has on a car engine - idling for 10+ hours can't be ideal, no? 

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6 minutes ago, The Ace of Aces said:

I question the long-term impacts this has on a car engine - idling for 10+ hours can't be ideal, no? 

On the dedicated setups, like the F150, I'm sure the electrical load acts like a mechanical load and raises engine speed from idle, which would be very helpful to engine life.

On those add-on things, I'm not sure that would happen, and the engine would stay at idle and yes, that is not a good idea.

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9 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Lincoln, or Miller? Was it one of those huge old times ones from the 50s or a newer model? Give me the details, man!?

lol. Bobcat.

I learned to weld on an old, crank-start only Lincoln DC welder (you might be on my lawn). Unfortunately my dad gifted that to a neighbor of ours a long time ago. Sure wish I still had that thing, nothing welds like an old DC machine.

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11 minutes ago, The Ace of Aces said:

I question the long-term impacts this has on a car engine - idling for 10+ hours can't be ideal, no? 

yeah that's a good point.  could be why the f150 only has their power port on hybrids and it might work like how Twice suggested.

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5 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

yeah that's a good point.  could be why the f150 only has their power port on hybrids and it might work like how Twice suggested.

I don't think that is bad for a modern car, though it is not ideal. Probably going to wear out the alternator though.

edit: my limited experience with inverters is they don't rate what they say they will. Most cars today are going to have 140 amp or so alternators, so do your math conservatively (maybe you can get 100 amps out of your car then?).

Edited by GringoSalado
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19 minutes ago, crimsonlonghorn said:

My brother is the risk officer for an electric coop and says this is a bad idea. You either plug stuff into the generator itself or you need to use a proper cutoff switch. It's extremely dangerous to others upstream of you if you are "backfilling" power into the house and onto a line that they think is dead or cutoff from the power source. 

See video below.

Agree manually controlling breaker and plugging into a dryer outlet is not good.  The issue is forgetting to throw the main before connecting up and powering the generator and back feeding the power lines.  A double pole, double throw transfer switch,which completely isolates the power company side, installed by an electrician is best but there are other methods that will work.

A generator breaker interlock switch which, when installed correctly, prevents the backfed breaker and the power mains disconnect from being turned on at the same time.  The one I just bought for my breaker panel is made by the manufacturer of the panel and has a code listing.

Here’s what I did:

I had previously purchased a Ryobi 3400w generator for use at a ranch property that doesn’t have power and have used it boondocking with my travel trailer.  Is was fairly cheap, had good rating, has an inverter output which makes it better for electronic devices.

I have a Square D 150A Homeline breaker panel that uses QO breakers.  I bought the Square D interlock kit that fits my panel and a dual pole QO breaker to go in the upper right position in my panel.   The interlock is just a plate that slides up and down blocking the lever of either the main or feed breaker from being switched on while the other is on.  
 

I bought this 50A Generator power inlet box to connect the generator power cable into my panel.  This is the same inlet connector as my RV so I could use my existing RV cable setup but will buy a new one separate from the trailer.   The cable used will depend on the generator outlet and whether you have a 120/240 or 120V generator.
 

qocgk2c-jpg.122065

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4 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

lol. Bobcat.

I learned to weld on an old, crank-start only Lincoln DC welder (you might be on my lawn). Unfortunately my dad gifted that to a neighbor of ours a long time ago. Sure wish I still had that thing, nothing welds like an old DC machine.

My first welding job was with a 30 year old miller, and I had no idea how to run it, especially up hill. It definitely was awesome to turn on and listen to the motor churn and burn rod till your clothes and gloves were drenched in sweat. 

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This would be my < $2000 winter prepper shopping list.  None of this is crazy shit, and plays nice with other things you probably have (like a few 20lbs propane tanks for your grill).  I own all of this, and with it, my family and I have never been in danger here in the mountains of Colorado where we can have multi-day power outtages, 3 feet of snow, etc...

Big Buddy Propane Heater
https://www.mrheater.com/big-buddy-portable-heater-2933.html
mh18b-clipped-700x700-2019.jpg
Get the propane hose attachment and you can connect it to your 20lbs grill tanks.  Will provide about 40 hours of heat on a full tank and is indoor safe.

Honda EU2200i Generator
https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu2200i
eu2200itag_pe_imglg.jpg
Great little generator that I've had for over 10 years and just starts right up every time I need it.  Run an extension chord into your house and power your modem, a lamp, a computer, space heater, charge your phones, etc...  

Camp Chef Propane Stove
https://www.campchef.com/explorer.html
ex60lw_1_5.jpg
A nice propane stove that also works w/20lbs grill tanks and could be used to cook food, boil water, melt snow/ice, etc...

250 Gallon Water Cistern
https://rainwaterequipment.com/250-gallon-emergency-water-storage-tank/

PM250E_-_Light_Blue__60220.1610491427.jp
A 250 gallon water cistern with hose bib that you could have in the garage and move inside and ensure is filled before things get critical.  Doubles as a thermal battery when temperatures in your home start to drop.  If the weather event doesn't wind up being a big deal, use it for water the next couple weeks.

Snow Chains
81ZLjfXr7+L._AC_SL1500_.jpg
Work with snow or ice and might be the difference between being stranded and getting to safety.  No reason not to have a set in your trunk next to the jumper cables and tow strap.  You do have jumper cables and a tow strap, right?

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OK, this is a stupid question.  Having a generator seems like a good idea in the abstract.
But you can't run it inside, so you have to run extension cords to it on the porch or whatever.  Is there some way I'm not thinking of that avoids having an open window or something?

You can either put a transfer switch in, drop a plug out of the bottom of the box and shut everything off you don’t need, including the main, or a couple of other things if you have the correct types of cords.
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1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

I guess I’m not a big enough baller.  $10k for a generator setup to ensure your house stays cold/warm enough to avoid secondary disasters like busted pipes and all your food going to shit versus $200k for a vacation home and all the taxes and upkeep for something you aren’t living in?  

200K over 30 years at 3%.  But I didn't say "vacation home."  I said "leave."

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2 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:


You can either put a transfer switch in, drop a plug out of the bottom of the box and shut everything off you don’t need, including the main, or a couple of other things if you have the correct types of cords.

When I've used my honda generator outdoors with extension cord to the indoors, I run it under a closed door with the weather stripping making a seal around it.  I might then also have towels up against the bottom of the door to further protect things.  I'll make sure I place the generator under our deck picnic table so no snow/moisture gets directly on it.

There are some people around here with really elaborate propane generator redundancy systems.  i.e. they will detect a failure in the grid (or their primary solar power), auto start up and fail over to the propane generator and the most you notice is maybe a 30 second power outtage.  They are great systems, but you are squarely getting out of the "what you could afford to buy with what is left over from a couple paychecks" area for most people.

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12 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

200K over 30 years at 3%.  But I didn't say "vacation home."  I said "leave."

The guy I quoted was talking about the cost/benefit of installing a generator versus buying a vacation home to haul ass to before bad stuff hit. 

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1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

I guess I’m not a big enough baller.  $10k for a generator setup to ensure your house stays cold/warm enough to avoid secondary disasters like busted pipes and all your food going to shit versus $200k for a vacation home and all the taxes and upkeep for something you aren’t living in?  

The vacation house was an exaggeration, but if I can go somewhere warm for a couple of g's when this happens every 5-10 years I'm still coming out ahead. I don't think you can get a whole home generator that powers everything plus install for $10k. I'm looking at a lot more than that for my house that has two heating units, a septic pump, a well pump, and a bunch of other shit.

I'm not at all shitting on those of you who are going to ensure your house stays on fully during the entire thing. I think it's fucking awesome. I'm just looking at the cost benefit for my own family.

Edited by BradInATX
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1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

The vacation house was an exaggeration, but if I can go somewhere warm for a couple of g's when this happens every 5-10 years I'm still coming out ahead. I don't think you can get a whole home generator that powers everything plus install for $10k. I'm looking at a lot more than that for my house that has two heating units, a septic pump, a well pump, and a bunch of other shit.

I think you can get into the 15kW range, installed, with a dedicated 500 gallon propane tank around $10k. That would be enough for my house according to the generac planning tool.  There would have to be some energy management to keep things under the limit but it’s not crazy. Don’t run the oven, microwave and try to take a shower at the same time kind of thing. Obviously older/bigger/less efficient houses will require bigger generators/more fuel to run whole home backup, but I would still think it would still come out ahead of replacing water lines, food, mold damage, etc on top of whatever trip you ran off to. 

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4 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

I think you can get into the 15kW range, installed, with a dedicated 500 gallon propane tank around $10k. That would be enough for my house according to the generac planning tool.  There would have to be some energy management to keep things under the limit but it’s not crazy. Don’t run the oven, microwave and try to take a shower at the same time kind of thing. Obviously older/bigger/less efficient houses will require bigger generators/more fuel to run whole home backup, but I would still think it would still come out ahead of replacing water lines, food, mold damage, etc on top of whatever trip you ran off to. 

I spent all week texting with my friend in South Austin who first went without power for over 2 days and then the very same day they got back power, lost their water which still isn't back on.   They haven't taken a shower since Tuesday and have been melting snow so they could flush their toilet.  8 or 10k sounds pretty good compared to living like that for a week.  We're getting a good tax return plus another stimulus check probably, so it won't even hurt too much this year.  We have had 2 historical floods, a global pandemic and a historical freeze in the last 5 or 6 years.  This shit isn't a black swan event, it's the new reality we live in.

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4 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I spent all week texting with my friend in South Austin who first went without power for over 2 days and then the very same day they got back power, lost their water which still isn't back on.   They haven't taken a shower since Tuesday and have been melting snow so they could flush their toilet.  8 or 10k sounds pretty good compared to living like that for a week.  We're getting a good tax return plus another stimulus check probably, so it won't even hurt too much this year.  We have had 2 historical floods, a global pandemic and a historical freeze in the last 5 or 6 years.  This shit isn't a black swan event, it's the new reality we live in.

Yea, I’ve been eyeballing them since a bunch of guys I work with in Huntsville, AL had those tornados. They went weeks without power. This week settled things, I’m never going to be caught out like this again. 
 

edit: I should add, their plight is the reason I’m looking at LP generators with dedicated tanks. A few of those guys had portable generators. Those were great until they ran out of gas, and no gas was available.  There’s no perfect solution, but I figure if you’re gonna spend money anyway, try to cover as many contingencies as you can. 

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The Harbor Freight Predator series generators are a decent alternative to the Hondas. I have several friends who bought this one and swear by them.

https://www.harborfreight.com/3500-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-63584.html

They have only had them for 2-3 years so long term reliability is unknown but it is worth a look.

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1 hour ago, The Ace of Aces said:

I question the long-term impacts this has on a car engine - idling for 10+ hours can't be ideal, no? 

Serious question...why?  Ambulances and police cars idle all the time, don't they?  This feels like something that may just be a myth.

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Propane space heater, propane camp stove, extra propane, candles, canned food and an assortment of backpacker meals, stored water (jerry cans, aquatainer jugs, 55 gallon drum...), deck of cards, wine and beer, more firewood, hand held coffee grinder. 

A generator of any sort would come well behind all that other stuff for me.  Couldn't give 2 shits about lights, TV, internet, etc.. The only critical thing a generator would be good for is powering fans or swampcoolers in the heat, and if it's a heat event then the roads are likely passable to GTFO of dodge and head north.

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6 minutes ago, fuggled said:

Serious question...why?  Ambulances and police cars idle all the time, don't they?  This feels like something that may just be a myth.

Ambulances usually have a diesel engine and/or generator and cop cars have 2 alternators and heavy duty wiring.

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13 minutes ago, fuggled said:

Serious question...why?  Ambulances and police cars idle all the time, don't they?  This feels like something that may just be a myth.

Don't know if this is still the case but a while back I had an "imcomplete" 2003 f350 that was amberlamps spec and it had a high idle feature that kicked in after a few seconds. But any computer managed cars these days can probably handle it.

 

My understanding is that at idle damage can occur because engine is not up to temp and oil pressure is too low, and I would think any modern car's ECU manages those things sufficiently.

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1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

 

 

this Wen 2000 watt inverter i'm leaning towards has had really good reviews.  has a carburetor fuel shut off.  quiet.  light.  https://wenproducts.com/products/super-quiet-2000-watt-portable-inverter-generator-with-fuel-shut-off-carb-compliant

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8 minutes ago, Homercles said:

If I had a dollar for everytime ive heard “daddy!” Or “I want” during this never ending weekend, I’d be able to buy a dozen generators 

My 5YO did pretty well all things considered.  She moaned a bit yesterday with no power because she had to watch some youtube video that was supposed to "drop" about a toy dog pool party.  But otherwise, she's been great the last week for the most part.  Wife has been aces, as usual.  The smaller one has been a bit cranky because she loves her outside time each day with Daddy but it's just been too damn cold to take her out until maybe this afternoon.  She really gets cabin fever, like Papa.  

All that to say, I am thankful and will be buying a generator next year.  But I can hang my hat on the fact that my children didn't demand to go somewhere warmer this week like a Cancun Cunt.  

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32 minutes ago, WithoutAClue said:

The Harbor Freight Predator series generators are a decent alternative to the Hondas. I have several friends who bought this one and swear by them.

https://www.harborfreight.com/3500-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-63584.html

They have only had them for 2-3 years so long term reliability is unknown but it is worth a look.

costco is selling a firman brand 2900/3200 inverter for $639.99 online and $599.99 in store. 

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45 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I spent all week texting with my friend in South Austin who first went without power for over 2 days and then the very same day they got back power, lost their water which still isn't back on.   They haven't taken a shower since Tuesday and have been melting snow so they could flush their toilet.  8 or 10k sounds pretty good compared to living like that for a week.  We're getting a good tax return plus another stimulus check probably, so it won't even hurt too much this year.  We have had 2 historical floods, a global pandemic and a historical freeze in the last 5 or 6 years.  This shit isn't a black swan event, it's the new reality we live in.

This was kind of my "go some place prettier and cheaper if I have to put up with this shit anyway" point.  I hope you're wrong, but I don't think so.

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MOAR AMMO!!!!!!!!!

8AC0611783EFDE374B15946C612D0CDDB445DF5E

Seriously, all our hunting/camping gear served us just fine.  Fireplace and stove are gas.  Always have wood and multiple chainsaws.  If it got really bad, just pitch a tent in the living room and use the down sleeping bags we have and offset with pillows and blankets.  Multiple Jetboil-type stoves and tanks.  Epi-pens and water filters.  Keep a store of "survival food" in the house for up to 6 months.  

We ski every year, so we all have merino wool base layers, socks, and cold weather gear.

Honestly, it would be much, much worse if electricity went out in August.  That would be fucking miserable and you'd the fatality count skyrocket with elderly heat stroke cases.

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4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

My 5YO did pretty well all things considered.  She moaned a bit yesterday with no power because she had to watch some youtube video that was supposed to "drop" about a toy dog pool party.  But otherwise, she's been great the last week for the most part.  Wife has been aces, as usual.  The smaller one has been a bit cranky because she loves her outside time each day with Daddy but it's just been too damn cold to take her out until maybe this afternoon.  She really gets cabin fever, like Papa.  

All that to say, I am thankful and will be buying a generator next year.  But I can hang my hat on the fact that my children didn't demand to go somewhere warmer this week like a Cancun Cunt.  

Oh I took my two (4 and 7) outside twice a day, just to let them experience the rare ‘real’ snow and burn some energy.  There were no cars about so it was safe to let them run about while I held the 4yo hand.  
 

It was a major expedition each time, don’t get me wrong...only when we had power so they could warm up afterwards, bundled up in many layers, and they’d last maybe 45 minutes so 15 minutes of prep to go outside + 45m outside + 15m of changing/drying clothes + 30m for a bath afterwards only ate up maybe 2 hours.  
 

Im a home body who needs time alone to recharge, so I recognize I get grumpy after 7 straight days of having everyone crammed inside.  

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3 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Another thing on my list i just got on Amazon is a key for the city water shutoff and gas meters.  

Good one, especially the water.

 

I'm going to have a inside facing outlet installed, strictly for the generator. About 3 of those big water cooler bottles that I can fill up as needed. A couple of large power packs for the portable electronics. Having to keep those constantly charged was a PITA. And an emergency radio for news.

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1 hour ago, Lobo said:

My 5YO did pretty well all things considered.  She moaned a bit yesterday with no power because she had to watch some youtube video that was supposed to "drop" about a toy dog pool party.  But otherwise, she's been great the last week for the most part.  Wife has been aces, as usual.  The smaller one has been a bit cranky because she loves her outside time each day with Daddy but it's just been too damn cold to take her out until maybe this afternoon.  She really gets cabin fever, like Papa.  

All that to say, I am thankful and will be buying a generator next year.  But I can hang my hat on the fact that my children didn't demand to go somewhere warmer this week like a Cancun Cunt.  

Oh, I dunno.... a Cancun cruise sounds like fun right about now.

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1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

 

 

 

this Wen 2000 watt inverter i'm leaning towards has had really good reviews.  has a carburetor fuel shut off.  quiet.  light.  https://wenproducts.com/products/super-quiet-2000-watt-portable-inverter-generator-with-fuel-shut-off-carb-compliant

It's been a great generator for me. The one thing that I miss from a previous Yamaha generator is a fuel level indicator. I'm thinking of weighing it when it's full and empty and start using that to estimate when I need to refill it during use.

I would also recommend adding a hours meter to it. Costs like $5-$10 and helps you know when maintenance is needed. Takes a few minutes to install.

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5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It's been a great generator for me. The one thing that I miss from a previous Yamaha generator is a fuel level indicator. I'm thinking of weighing it when it's full and empty and start using that to estimate when I need to refill it during use.

I would also recommend adding a hours meter to it. Costs like $5-$10 and helps you know when maintenance is needed. Takes a few minutes to install.

great idea with weighing it.  easier than keeping track of and using a dipstick.  

 

other than changing the oil, is there other scheduled maintenance that needs to be done?

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6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I would also recommend adding a hours meter to it. Costs like $5-$10 and helps you know when maintenance is needed. Takes a few minutes to install.

I put one of these on my generator and pressure washer. Seem to work great.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A43PKOE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

61sGr1ipSlL._AC_SX679_.jpg

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Like a dead power outlet that I can hook up to the generator, so I don't have to run an extension cord from the garage. It's just an idea in my head right now. Something like this

3.jpg

So I can keep the generator in the garage.

A running engine inside a garage, even with the door open, is a serious carbon monoxide hazard

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costco is selling a firman brand 2900/3200 inverter for $639.99 online and $599.99 in store. 

Buy two and parallel link them. You have almost 6k running watts, and if one goes bad, you have a back-up. Or can lend one to family and neighbors in need.

I have two Champion dual fuel inverters if my main gen fails. I can parallel them for almost 5k, and I have the two spares to give to my two adult sons if need be.

Plus, the propane will sit in my garage and never get skunky . No carburetor issues from ethanol. Worth the extra price to have alternate fuels. And it is far easier to convert them to natural gas as a propane gas line already exits to the carb. Just hook up the natural gas with a $70 regulator and you have unlimited fuel so long as gas is flowing to your house.
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