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2022 Summer Season: Flavor-Aid (Strength: Prison Wine)


BurntOrange&White

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1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:
 
I like to hear perspectives like Roy’s and other former players when it comes to the x and o

 

Me too. I just assumed that our problems on the defensive front were mostly the result of a talent deficiency issue at DE. Are Pete K's schemes this screwed up? 

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3 minutes ago, JFKFC said:

Me too. I just assumed that our problems on the defensive front were mostly the result of a talent deficiency issue at DE. Are Pete K's schemes this screwed up? 

Undersized guys behind the DL means you want the DL to occupy the OL somewhat.

You really aren't going to have good defensive play at all (big 12) when they allow insane amounts of holding and also punish any physical play from the defense. 

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5 minutes ago, JFKFC said:

Me too. I just assumed that our problems on the defensive front were mostly the result of a talent deficiency issue at DE. Are Pete K's schemes this screwed up? 

Did you watch any of last season? Because that answer should be obvious. Here, I'll give you a hint:

image.png.05a54e9c258b00d8d74137d718afe1a0.png

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2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I like to hear perspectives like Roy’s and other former players when it comes to the x and o

 

I have mentioned this watching the defense play zone blocking. LBs are pretty passive and stack over the DTs. I absolutely hate that. I was taught to "make the DL correct". Come downhill and attack the double. (example DT/LB have A and B gap. It does not matter who takes which gap, but that 2 guys are in those gaps. I always put that on the LB)

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3 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I have mentioned this watching the defense play zone blocking. LBs are pretty passive and stack over the DTs. I absolutely hate that. I was taught to "make the DL correct". Come downhill and attack the double. (example DT/LB have A and B gap. It does not matter who takes which gap, but that 2 guys are in those gaps. I always put that on the LB)

Our LB suck until proven otherwise...going back like a decade. Any scheme that sacrifices a talent advantage on DL to get upfield and create havoc in favor of them eating blocks to allow proven shitty and non-instinctive LBs to make plays is...fucking stupid. 

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1 minute ago, Red Five said:

You mean funneling the action to a walk-on LB wasn’t a great strategy?

given the issues on the edge there was no funneling. The the idea is to funnel things inside, but that never happened. If anything it was "spilled" to the outside (I put that is quotes, because it wasnt an intended spill)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

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31 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

given the issues on the edge there was no funneling. The the idea is to funnel things inside, but that never happened. If anything it was "spilled" to the outside (I put that is quotes, because it wasnt an intended spill)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

Yeah, it wasn't so much funneling as it was forking, giving the linebackers 4 gaps to fill on any given play. 

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14 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Karic/Angilau/Majors/Conner/Jones is such a kick in the junk for any optimism I have about this season. Reading that in print just really, really bums me out.

Yes it does, but Banks/Campbell/Robertson/Hutson/Williams makes me happy. 

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16 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Karic/Angilau/Majors/Conner/Jones is such a kick in the junk for any optimism I have about this season. Reading that in print just really, really bums me out.

Yeah, but midway through the season that could become Banks/Angilau/Majors/Campbell/Williams. Here’s to hoping.

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1 hour ago, Hookem2147 said:

The good news is by the end of the spring game Surly will be able to declare if we have to the worst OL or the worst DL in the country. Will be nice to have closure. 

why not both?

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A lot of pessimism about the OL in here. Let me add scouting reports on our incoming guys to see if we can get the koolaid flowing again:

Devon Campbell

Quote

Average height with good length and broad, stout build. Owns college-ready size and matching field demeanor.

Two-way snaps foster functional athleticism and awareness. Displays impressive movement ability relative to size with mobility to lead the way as a puller and as a devastating second-level blocker. Heavy-handed. Shows startling punch power at times.

Impressive open-field athleticism when lead-blocking beyond the line of scrimmage. Terrorizes second-level defenders and looks for extra work. Two-sport participation in football and basketball (can dunk). Also a very good lifter in the weight room.

Can improve hand placement consistency. Good athlete but can continue to hone balance and body control, particularly when engaged. Weight has fluctuated a bit so remaining conditioned is key.

Ready-to-play run blocker but technical advancements still needed in pass protection. Could potentially play multiple offensive line spots -- as well as defensive tackle -- but projects best to guard. Should become an impact high-major starter with high-round NFL Draft potential.



Kelvin Banks
 

Quote

Broad, heavy offensive lineman with guard field demeanor and tackle reach and mobility. Owns above average length that combines with body width to maximize wingspan. Understands not only pad leverage but angles relative to targets and hand placement. Devastating puller with heavy hands and short-area power. Wipeout strength shines at the second level. Drive-blocking ability derives in part from consistent foot activity upon contact. Flashes de-cleating punch and will pancake targets to the ground when necessary. Good functional athleticism relative to size aids pass-pro ability. Light enough on his feet to mirror edge speed, but size and reach compensate when a tic behind. Showed improved bending ability in senior season, which also revealed improved hand placement consistency. Still gets out over his feet at times. Balance and body control remain areas that can improve, but 2021 showed progress. Provides excellent roster value in versatility to play either tackle spot and both guard spots if needed. Combines high-floor ability with developmental upside. Projects to the high-major level as a multi-year starter who should become a stalwart of his team's offensive line. Possesses the attributes to become a high-round NFL Draft prospect in the long term.

 

Malik Agbo

Quote

While Agbo has played primarily tackle as a prep, he projects to sliding inside to play guard. Shows plus athleticism, being used as a goalline back and tight end in some packages, so has the athleticism to play tackle, but with his size and strength, will be utilized better against interior defenders. With his bulk and size, moves nimbly on his feet. Excels as a run blocker and continuing to improve in pass protection. Anchors quickly and can re-set, with heavy hands and initial punch. Consistency and motor can ebb and flow depending on the time of game. Could also use some time to trim up and not play with extra weight. Vocal leader. Plays basketball and throws the shot put, and is an accomplished multi-sport athlete.

 

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50 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Karic/Angilau/Majors/Conner/Jones is such a kick in the junk for any optimism I have about this season. Reading that in print just really, really bums me out.

I know the bar isn’t set high at all, but that’s still better than many OL’s we’ve trotted out the last 10 years or so.

Sort of a side comment, but I do think Angilau is a little underappreciated. Entering his 4th year as a starter, rarely misses snaps, is a plus in the run game and his pass blocking looked a little better last year. Just my opinion, but I think this is a bigger offseason for Majors than almost anyone on the OL. If he adds weight (which he claims he has) and can hold up against bigger NT’s (hi, Baylor and Iowa State) then I’ll feel okay about the interior of the line and we should be able to run between the tackles on most teams.

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1 hour ago, Hookem2147 said:

The good news is by the end of the spring game Surly will be able to declare if we have to the worst OL or the worst DL in the country. Will be nice to have closure. 

If Don Knotts is a DL and Tiny Tim is the opposing OL, and they battle to a stand still does that mean they are both stellar?

 

I didnt think so either....

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52 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Karic/Angilau/Majors/Conner/Jones is such a kick in the junk for any optimism I have about this season. Reading that in print just really, really bums me out.

I don’t know why Conner gets thrown in the crap conversation always?  He’s got good size and did a good job when he played last year as a freshman and I’ve heard nothing but praise for the kid.  

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24 minutes ago, oldhorn2 said:

If Don Knotts is a DL and Tiny Tim is the opposing OL, and they battle to a stand still does that mean they are both stellar?

 

I didnt think so either....

No  fucking way they battle to a standstill. Knotts kicks Tiny ass, any day, anywhere.

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47 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

It’s pretty sad how giddy you will be the first time any OL messes up and how you are basically rooting for it at this point.

Dude, every o-line messes up. I hope I am 100% wrong. I don't think there is a chance this line is elite, but I hope I am wrong and these guys significantly improve. It isn't impossible. With our skill position talent (and if one of our QBs settles in after the Bama loss) with slightly above average o-line play, we could make a run at a conference title. I would bet against it happening but I would like to see it and I would happily eat crow. 

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21 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

No  fucking way they battle to a standstill. Knotts kicks Tiny ass, any day, anywhere.

Easy there, pal. Are we talking Andy Griffith Knotts or Three's Company Knotts? What about Tiny Tim - Mickey's Christmas Carol Tim or Bill Murray Scrooged Tiny Tim? 

Need more data.

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19 minutes ago, JFKFC said:

Dude, every o-line messes up. I hope I am 100% wrong. I don't think there is a chance this line is elite, but I hope I am wrong and these guys significantly improve. It isn't impossible. With our skill position talent (and if one of our QBs settles in after the Bama loss) with slightly above average o-line play, we could make a run at a conference title. I would bet against it happening but I would like to see it and I would happily eat crow. 

Are you talking about before or after the Brockermeyers transfer here?

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So, OB gets clowned on, but I actually like Alex Dunlap's work covering the OL. I've pulled some stuff from his final post on the 2021 season. He has a grading scale called Deep Dig that grades each snap. He also tracks disruption allowed. Here are the 2021 stats.

Spoiler

Deep-Dig-2021-OL-GRADING-SCALE.jpg

Deep-Dig-2021-OL-Grades-by-Week-.jpg

Deep-Dig-2021-OL-Snaps-Per-Disruption.jpg

Here's some stuff that gives historical context

Spoiler

Year and average Deep Dig Grade (for the entire unit per game) on the season:

2019: 77.83
2020: 77.44
2018: 76.59
2017: 76.13
2016: 76.01
2021: 75.51
2015: 75.28

 

Individual snaps per disruption allowed over the last 7 seasons:

Deep-Dig-OL-Totals-for-historical-comparison-2021-FINAL-.jpg

Personally, I think our OL hopes and dreams ride on Kelvin Banks. That's not a great spot to be.

The interior should be ok. Angilau is reliably above average. Conner showed some alright stuff that makes me think he can be serviceable. Majors has always done some things really well but been hampered by deficient core strength and weight. Year three or four has always been my timeline for him since his flashes as a freshman, so hopefully Kyle Flood locks him in the weight room with hourly protein shake deliveries. He's probably still a year away though. 

Shit gets real looking at tackle. Jones and Karic are a bit depressing. We can probably figure something out at RT between those two and someone from Campbell/Neto/Cam. LT is an entirely different story. There's a very specific play where Jones got pantsed that haunted my nightmares for awhile but I've managed to repress that shit deep down. The flashbacks are gone but the sour taste remains every time I take a sip of the koolaid. I don't really see a fix there unless Banks can play there. He doesn't need to be a worldbeater, just freshman Vahe/Williams/Kerstetter level. 

We had some shitty lines under Herman but at least we had Conner Williams and Sam Cosmi to anchor us at LT. And when we didn't due to injury, it got ugly. 

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3 hours ago, tokamak said:

Karic/Angilau/Majors/Conner/Jones

People were falling all over themselves wanting to see Andrej Karic at left tackle last year. When he played spot duty he was just greatness if one read the threads. Then he played out of position for extended periods of time and proved to be terrible. I don't expect much from the coaching staff since Sark is a mediocre head guy and Flood could never get the OL to be better. My hope for this season is riding on the players finding something in themselves in year two. So Andre what ever you found in spot duty find it for games all year now that you are playing your position. Ra, Ra Kool-aid, Ra, Ra.

 

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I heard from a guy today that was at practice....He said Ewers was way ahead of Card....said that there was not a throw Ewers could not make. That was the good news. The bad news was that the only guys on the team that could catch at all were the RB's. He said we might have the best RB room in the country. That was the good news. The bad news was that the OL was terrible. He said they did not cast shadows because they cant even block sunshine.

 

now send me those 9.95 checks please....

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10 minutes ago, Bodacious Bevo said:

So, OB gets clowned on, but I actually like Alex Dunlap's work covering the OL. I've pulled some stuff from his final post on the 2021 season. He has a grading scale called Deep Dig that grades each snap. He also tracks disruption allowed. Here are the 2021 stats.

  Hide contents

Deep-Dig-2021-OL-GRADING-SCALE.jpg

Deep-Dig-2021-OL-Grades-by-Week-.jpg

Deep-Dig-2021-OL-Snaps-Per-Disruption.jpg

Here's some stuff that gives historical context

  Reveal hidden contents

Year and average Deep Dig Grade (for the entire unit per game) on the season:

2019: 77.83
2020: 77.44
2018: 76.59
2017: 76.13
2016: 76.01
2021: 75.51
2015: 75.28

 

Individual snaps per disruption allowed over the last 7 seasons:

Deep-Dig-OL-Totals-for-historical-comparison-2021-FINAL-.jpg

 

Personally, I think our OL hopes and dreams ride on Kelvin Banks. That's not a great spot to be.

The interior should be ok. Angilau is reliably above average. Conner showed some alright stuff that makes me think he can be serviceable. Majors has always done some things really well but been hampered by deficient core strength and weight. Year three or four has always been my timeline for him since his flashes as a freshman, so hopefully Kyle Flood locks him in the weight room with hourly protein shake deliveries. He's probably still a year away though. 

Shit gets real looking at tackle. Jones and Karic are a bit depressing. We can probably figure something out at RT between those two and someone from Campbell/Neto/Cam. LT is an entirely different story. There's a very specific play where Jones got pantsed that haunted my nightmares for awhile but I've managed to repress that shit deep down. The flashbacks are gone but the sour taste remains every time I take a sip of the koolaid. I don't really see a fix there unless Banks can play there. He doesn't need to be a worldbeater, just freshman Vahe/Williams/Kerstetter level. 

We had some shitty lines under Herman but at least we had Conner Williams and Sam Cosmi to anchor us at LT. And when we didn't due to injury, it got ugly. 

Good stuff. Yeah, Cosmi having two of the best seasons for a Texas OL in the last 7 years definitely inflated the 2019 and 2020 grades.

The 2020 line would have really good if we would have recruited literally any center between 2017 and 2019. Instead, genius Herb Hand looked ahead and said nah we good we will just break up one of the best tackle tandems in the Big 12 and move Derek Kerstetter to center, which weakened our entire line.

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3 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

People were falling all over themselves wanting to see Andrej Karic at left tackle last year. When he played spot duty he was just greatness if one read the threads. Then he played out of position for extended periods of time and proved to be terrible. I don't expect much from the coaching staff since Sark is a mediocre head guy and Flood could never get the OL to be better. My hope for this season is riding on the players finding something in themselves in year two. So Andre what ever you found in spot duty find it for games all year now that you are playing your position. Ra, Ra Kool-aid, Ra, Ra.

 

Message board coaches screaming for Karic only for us to see why he wasn’t starting when he got thrown in against TCU and OU was…something.

He played RG and RT last year and looked bad at both. He’s only a redshirt sophomore so I’m not completely giving up on him but he has limitations (especially physically) that make me wonder if he will ever consistently contribute on a Kyle Flood coached line where size and length is so important and quickness is not as important.

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2 hours ago, Eggo said:

Easy there, pal. Are we talking Andy Griffith Knotts or Three's Company Knotts? What about Tiny Tim - Mickey's Christmas Carol Tim or Bill Murray Scrooged Tiny Tim? 

Need more data.


 

9D68F087-149E-430B-BAEF-26C2EDC8ECA3.thumb.jpeg.48591bbf5436e40cc4c08cb21628e5a2.jpeg

This Tiny Tim. Fortunately he got by on his good looks and immense talent, saving him from getting his ass regularly kicked by malnourished kids on crutches 

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27 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Nothing has changed on the OL from last year and relying on true freshmen is not wide. 

Well, would rather rely on freshman who are good and posses the type of traits that Campbell and Banks posses than the alternative type of freshmen…

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55 minutes ago, mr. sunshine said:


 

9D68F087-149E-430B-BAEF-26C2EDC8ECA3.thumb.jpeg.48591bbf5436e40cc4c08cb21628e5a2.jpeg

This Tiny Tim. Fortunately he got by on his good looks and immense talent, saving him from getting his ass regularly kicked by malnourished kids on crutches 

That’s the Tiny Tim I thought of when the name was mentioned, perhaps because of the Don Knotts comp. Both were legendary cocksmen (well, Tim may have banged Miss Vicki). But Don tore thru Hollywood, flashing his multiple Emmy Awards as he tagged the latest blonde with stars in her eyes, looking for a connection. 

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1 hour ago, DanTheHorn said:

I don't expect much from the coaching staff since Sark is a mediocre head guy and Flood could never get the OL to be better.

Flood is one of the best OL coaches in the country and the unit played better towards the end of the year.

Now, your definition of better might be different than mine. Maybe they went from very bad to just bad or bad to below average. Regardless, once we inserted Imade and Conner and decided to keep Kerstetter solely at RT, I saw some things I didn’t see against Arkansas and OU and hell even Rice for certain stretches. Will they build off of that or will losing Kerstetter at one tackle spot torpedo the whole thing? We will see in September.

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Personally, I think our OL hopes and dreams ride on Kelvin Banks. That's not a great spot to be.
The interior should be ok. Angilau is reliably above average. Conner showed some alright stuff that makes me think he can be serviceable. Majors has always done some things really well but been hampered by deficient core strength and weight. Year three or four has always been my timeline for him since his flashes as a freshman, so hopefully Kyle Flood locks him in the weight room with hourly protein shake deliveries. He's probably still a year away though. 
Shit gets real looking at tackle. Jones and Karic are a bit depressing. We can probably figure something out at RT between those two and someone from Campbell/Neto/Cam. LT is an entirely different story. There's a very specific play where Jones got pantsed that haunted my nightmares for awhile but I've managed to repress that shit deep down. The flashbacks are gone but the sour taste remains every time I take a sip of the koolaid. I don't really see a fix there unless Banks can play there. He doesn't need to be a worldbeater, just freshman Vahe/Williams/Kerstetter level. 
We had some shitty lines under Herman but at least we had Conner Williams and Sam Cosmi to anchor us at LT. And when we didn't due to injury, it got ugly. 



That’s interesting stuff.

I’d say Vahe as a frosh is not a good example as he’s in Jones’s range from last year. Also Jones went from right to left and improved his negative plays percentage all the while playing in a new offense. Unfortunately for him, he never mastered RT so that switch was more difficult.

I will say at quick glance the yearly comparisons probably do not match the Football Outsiders stats. Last years run blocking was top 2 since 2014. The pass blocking stats from last year were comparable to many of the prior years. I’d dare say we played against better defenses last year than many years too.

Now, I counted only 15 sacks attributed to the line for Dunlap so how does that compare to prior years.
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5 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

 


That’s interesting stuff.

I’d say Vahe as a frosh is not a good example as he’s in Jones’s range from last year. Also Jones went from right to left and improved his negative plays percentage all the while playing in a new offense. Unfortunately for him, he never mastered RT so that switch was more difficult.

I will say at quick glance the yearly comparisons probably do not match the Football Outsiders stats. Last years run blocking was top 2 since 2014. The pass blocking stats from last year were comparable to many of the prior years. I’d dare say we played against better defenses last year than many years too.

Now, I counted only 15 sacks attributed to the line for Dunlap so how does that compare to prior years.

 

It does also look like the majority of the dings come from hits, pressures and sacks, which are all a part of pass blocking which we know is weaker than our run blocking.

Kinda like Football Outsiders referenced, line yards in the run game was a favorable stat for us last year.

 

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1 hour ago, Vito Andolini said:

That’s the Tiny Tim I thought of when the name was mentioned, perhaps because of the Don Knotts comp. Both were legendary cocksmen (well, Tim may have banged Miss Vicki). But Don tore thru Hollywood, flashing his multiple Emmy Awards as he tagged the latest blonde with stars in her eyes, looking for a connection. 

Don Knotts delivering pickup lines and talking down to chicks he is banging sounds like the greatest SNL skit of all time.

Edited by Vertigo
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4 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

Don Knotts delivering pickup lines and talking down to chicks he is banging sounds like the greatest SNL skit of all time.

Well, but they try pretty hard to keep truth out of those skits. Otherwise that star on the sidewalk would have been worn the fuck out from clit-rubbing.

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It does also look like the majority of the dings come from hits, pressures and sacks, which are all a part of pass blocking which we know is weaker than our run blocking.
Kinda like Football Outsiders referenced, line yards in the run game was a favorable stat for us last year.



Yep, yep.

The Football Outsiders shows our Stuff Rate is favorable in the run game. Our run metrics ranked considerably better than Michigan State. I use them for several reasons - comparable back who broke lots of tackles, a poor defense, and a better record.

Our pass pro struggled more so in early downs. Some of that had to do with pulling guys who didn’t quite get there or simply missed. Codaxx May be on to something too with more RPO and less traditional play action. If we’re truly better at WR, that should help pass pro too with more open options and open sooner too.

We’ll miss Kerstetter more in pass pro than the run game. I’d guess at RT with Jones we’ll be better at the run game but downgrading in the pass. Then Jones is the worst LT ever so no way Banks/Williams could be worse. And you can find help with a TE or RB cause can’t no team cover Worthy/Neyor/Whittington.

QB is the key for the offense. Then health of the Oline and WR group. This may be the best RB group we’ve ever had. It’s quite possibly the most talented top 3 WRs we’ve ever had. TE and QB have as talented of players that we’ve had. I’d expect 3 contributors of the frosh olinemen - as talented a group of olinemen that we’ve had.

Raining sunshine.
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1 hour ago, Hookem2147 said:

It does also look like the majority of the dings come from hits, pressures and sacks, which are all a part of pass blocking which we know is weaker than our run blocking.

Kinda like Football Outsiders referenced, line yards in the run game was a favorable stat for us last year.

 

I’ll agree on LT. That is huge question mark, that I don’t see an answer to today. I also agree that I think Texas can cobble together something at RT. Run blocking certainly improved last year. Pass blocking was still sketch, but I also thought the QB play was just as sketch. People have the notion that sacks are an OL stat alone. I have seen strong evidence that sacks are a QB stat. The 2 most predictable stats for a QB in the NFL are completion percentage and sack rate. Sack rate shouldn’t be predictable with team changes, if it was a OL stat. I think there are things the offense can do to help the OL out with better QB play. 

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  • BurntOrange&White changed the title to 2022 Summer Season: Flavor-Aid (Strength: Prison Wine)
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