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Posted
1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Just for fun, let's dig in on this.

1.  NFL teams need more than a starter at QB.  Most carry 3.

2.  Ewers was far better than a "mediocre" college QB.

3.  Being one of the 2-3 worst players on one of the best offenses in college football, IF TRUE, is not necessarily as damning as you think it is.

Now that much of the gang is back I had to jump into the fray.

1.  You are correct on the first part.  You may be correct on the second.

2. This is a difficult one.  Objectively, based on the PFF grading system, he was at best mediocre in 2 of 3 seasons and one better than mediocre but not likely elite.

3.  OFEI says we were never a top 10 offense.  Yet the past 2 drafts say we had the draftable talent of a top 5 offense both in overall offensive talent but also top end talent.

43 minutes ago, mwaadeeb said:

What's more objective than passing stats and wins?

Oh but wait, that was because of the team, because our other QBs had worse teams, GTFO.

With the advent and availability of advanced stats, passing stats don’t tell anywhere near the story.

As referenced above, we have had/will have had tons of draftees the past two years.  We had the fastest combine 40 WR of all time.  We had the fastest pair of all time.  Then followed that up the next year with the fastest WR 40 time and the fastest WR top-end speed.  Three OTs drafted over the 2 years.  Two TEs drafted - in back to back years.  The highest drafted RB one year.

Objectively, no other QB had access to that level of mature talent.  No other Texas team can match that.

And as for wins, the past two years our backups are undefeated in their starts. One of those QBs reportedly was asked to leave his new program so he’s not the second coming of Patrick Mahomes.  Yet he won.

 

As for Ewers it’s all in front of him.  His experiences here have likely prepared him well for the next level.  He has some uniqueness to his game.  I’d bet he gets drafted higher than many expect - no later than round 2 is my bet.  I’d put his chances of success at pretty solid.  None of that changes his career here.  As for many QBs, he needs that right environment.

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Posted
43 minutes ago, Derka said:

another super mature, progressive contribution to the thread jj. you the man!

also funny that you mention sendlein in a sort of patronizing, punchline type of way, considering he started 124 games over his long and successful nfl career. let me know when quinn does the same.

What the fuck is your problem?  It's a legit question, it's not patronizing or a punchline, and the second half of your answer is exactly my point.  You can't look at a player's ordinal ranking on his own offense and draw sweeping conclusions, despite your insane insistence to the contrary.

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Posted
22 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

3.  OFEI says we were never a top 10 offense.  Yet the past 2 drafts say we had the draftable talent of a top 5 offense both in overall offensive talent but also top end talent.

This just furthers my point.  Claiming Ewers is just a guy because he was surrounded by elite talent is fucking stupid, but here we are.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

The stupidest thing I've read is Shough being the number 1 QB drafted.  Whichever son of a bitch that does that to his NFL team will not be long in the GM position.

Nico would do it.

Also, this thread has the aids.

Edited by Ghost of Shag
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Posted
36 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

This just furthers my point.  Claiming Ewers is just a guy because he was surrounded by elite talent is fucking stupid, but here we are.

I’m not following you.  Are you disputing my comments or just saying I’m a dumbass because I interjected the surrounding talent?

Posted
32 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

I’m not following you.  Are you disputing my comments or just saying I’m a dumbass because I interjected the surrounding talent?

I'm not sure where the struggle is.  Ewers' talent relative to his teammates doesn't necessarily say anything about his talent relative to the entire D1 talent pool.  If he's actually one of the 2-3 "worst" players on the UT offense (which I would probably dispute) then that means nothing if his surrounding talent is elite, which in general it is.

Posted
24 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not sure where the struggle is.  Ewers' talent relative to his teammates doesn't necessarily say anything about his talent relative to the entire D1 talent pool.  If he's actually one of the 2-3 "worst" players on the UT offense (which I would probably dispute) then that means nothing if his surrounding talent is elite, which in general it is.

I am not sure I’ve ever said much about his talent being limited.  Generally, I’m never going to limit what a player can do.  He’s no different.  When I say he has some uniqueness to him, that is not meant in a negative sense.

But when one discusses actual production, that surrounding talent matters.  My life experiences tell me that slow pass catchers make your margin for error much smaller.  That any QB reads are more difficult because the defense remains condensed longer while at the same time creating less separation.  If you add in a mediocre pass protecting unit, then these timeframes are condensed even more.  And all this before you consider whether these pass catchers have above average to elite abilities to make defenders miss.  That has not been a Texas issue of late.  I’d say less so than any other team.  

Personally, I wouldn’t compare a G to a QB. Overall, in my opinion, our offense has underachieved relative to their talent the past 3 years.  Allocate that however you like.  It’s not one player or one factor.  

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Posted
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

What the fuck is your problem?  It's a legit question, it's not patronizing or a punchline, and the second half of your answer is exactly my point.  You can't look at a player's ordinal ranking on his own offense and draw sweeping conclusions, despite your insane insistence to the contrary.

a)you’re still the only one of us who is being angry and insulting with every single post you make, but don’t let that stop you from convincing yourself that i’m the one with anger issues who projects them onto others.

b)you act as if your little one-line, inane post about an offensive lineman from 20 years ago was clearly germane to the discussion at hand, and not just you continuing with your general whiny, snarky, upset tone 

and c)if you really think that comparing an offensive guard to a qb in this situation is apples to apples then i just don’t know what to tell you. lyle sendlein was a starter for a national title team and a first team all big xii player. guys like that stick in the nfl all of the time. quarterbacks who can’t throw accurately, are zero run threat, have pocket jitters, terrible footwork, and a mediocre three year of body of work while surrounded by more talent than any other qb in the nation, don’t. so again, even if your supposed point had been clear, it was still a terrible analogy.

as for “what’s my problem”, that would be your generally hostile and shitty attitude.

Posted
2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

This just furthers my point.  Claiming Ewers is just a guy because he was surrounded by elite talent is fucking stupid

giphy.gif?cid=9b38fe91pinvasg2y4ivwnvzkf

quinn proved himself to be a jag by failing to meet the level of the elite guys he was surrounded by for three years. so not only can we look at his teammates like bijan, jonathan brooks, xavier worthy, kelvin banks, jahdae barron, jaylon ford, matthew golden, collin simmons, anthony hill, and on and on and on, and see that QE is nowhere near their level, we also got to witness him failing to carry his load in two consecutive cfb playoffs when we really didn’t need anything special from the qb to win back to back titles. just keep the chains moving, get the ball to your superior talent, and let the best defense in college football do its thing.

that was too much to ask from quinn ewers. instead of winning those titles we never even made either title game, and we nearly lost to arizona state in a round of 8 game where quinn was just plain bad during regulation.

so yeah, being surrounded all league, all american, and nfl talent and failing to meet that level, and failing to win games with said talent advantage does in fact make you a jag. the audacity for you to call other people stupid while making a claim like this is just- wow. 

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Now that much of the gang is back I had to jump into the fray.

1.  You are correct on the first part.  You may be correct on the second.

2. This is a difficult one.  Objectively, based on the PFF grading system, he was at best mediocre in 2 of 3 seasons and one better than mediocre but not likely elite.

3.  OFEI says we were never a top 10 offense.  Yet the past 2 drafts say we had the draftable talent of a top 5 offense both in overall offensive talent but also top end talent.

With the advent and availability of advanced stats, passing stats don’t tell anywhere near the story.

As referenced above, we have had/will have had tons of draftees the past two years.  We had the fastest combine 40 WR of all time.  We had the fastest pair of all time.  Then followed that up the next year with the fastest WR 40 time and the fastest WR top-end speed.  Three OTs drafted over the 2 years.  Two TEs drafted - in back to back years.  The highest drafted RB one year.

Objectively, no other QB had access to that level of mature talent.  No other Texas team can match that.

And as for wins, the past two years our backups are undefeated in their starts. One of those QBs reportedly was asked to leave his new program so he’s not the second coming of Patrick Mahomes.  Yet he won.

 

As for Ewers it’s all in front of him.  His experiences here have likely prepared him well for the next level.  He has some uniqueness to his game.  I’d bet he gets drafted higher than many expect - no later than round 2 is my bet.  I’d put his chances of success at pretty solid.  None of that changes his career here.  As for many QBs, he needs that right environment.

The talent is just a fact. Texas set a record for draft picks last year and they may break that this year. These were 2 of the most talented teams Texas has produced as a program. Quinn contributed to the wins and losses the last 2 years. I wouldn’t say he led Texas back. I think the defense is probably the biggest reason Texas for the recent success.  That stats confirm that 

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted
5 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

The talent is just a fact. Texas set a record for draft picks last year and they may break that this year. These were 2 of the most talented teams Texas has produced as a program. 

•look at what colt did behind a terrible o line, with no TE, no running game, essentially no nfl receiving talent, and greg davis calling plays

•look at what quinn did in a college career where he had ungodly riches everywhere around him, and how his performance just pales in comparison to what colt did under much shittier circumstances 

•compare and contrast 

if quinn has a better nfl career than colt did i will be genuinely surprised.

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Posted
35 minutes ago, Derka said:

a)you’re still the only one of us who is being angry and insulting with every single post you make

If you don't think this is insulting, then that explains everything about your broken brain.  Again, seek help.  I'm done with your illogical whiny bitch routine.

Quote

another super mature, progressive contribution to the thread jj. you the man!

 

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Posted
3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

This just furthers my point.  Claiming Ewers is just a guy because he was surrounded by elite talent is fucking stupid, but here we are.

He’s not “just a guy.”  He’s also a pussy. Never forget. 

Posted

I remember watching him come back from injury during the 49-0 ou game and thought wow he’s gonna be a 1st rounder. Hadn’t seen anyone sling it like that here in forever.

We had worthy, ad, bond, and golden all underused.

Nonetheless, glad he chose to come to UT and end it here. It is what it is at this point.

Posted
3 hours ago, Derka said:

also it’s “Dixieland Delight”, but close enough lol.

Thanks for clearing up the "Dixieland Delight" song. I looked up "Dixie Wonderland" and was having a hard time trying to figure out why they'd celebrate the win with it...

 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, msucolt45 said:

Y’all need to leave QE alone and let his future NFL success speak for itself.

i can’t speak for everyone, but my thing about quinn is the same as my thing was for tevow back in 07 and 08- he’s not the problem, it’s his inexplicable cult-like following that’s so annoying. i don’t hate or even dislike QE, although i did openly dislike him when he showed up overweight and unkempt his first year here. after he’d trimmed down and had clearly spent the offseason taking himself and his craft more seriously, i don’t think i ever said another judgmental word about him that wasn’t football related. 

still, it’s not his fault that so much of longhorn nation anointed him the savior and then wildly inflated all expectations and actual results from him, which ultimately is why this thread has been so volatile. from people anointing him as a heisman contender and future first round/possible overall no.1 pick every offseason, to as recently as earlier this year when all of longhorns bbs-dom (here, twitter, reddit, the pay sites, etc) all had posts/threads asking, “if Texas wins the national title does quinn move up to second on the UT QB mount rushmore ahead of colt?”, as if that’s not the dumbest fucking question you’ve ever heard in your life. absent all of the fanboying that was 100% based on his HS rankings as a 16 year old and not on anything he’d done as a college qb, i don’t think quinn takes 90% of the heat he’s ended up taking. 

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Posted (edited)

which, ftr, means i am absolutely rooting for him to succeed in the nfl. just because i don’t think he will doesn’t mean i don’t want him to. there have been a ton of Longhorns whom i didn’t expect to have good nfl careers who did so anyway, and i’ve been happy for all of them. if i have to eat my words about him i will do so happily. 

Edited by Derka
Posted

Derka - seriously, I’m an older guy and go back to the previous site. I’ve appreciated your insight on many topics over the years, especially basketball, but sometimes you just need to find a finality on a thread and just say I’ve stated my opinion enough.

Sometimes less has more impact than more. Just saying, as this thread is 50% bitching compared to content. Please keep contributing, but you really don’t have to respond to each post, that you think, is negatively directed towards you.

We’re all rooting for the same damn team and results!

Hook’em!!!

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Posted

There is no cult-like following for Quinn with Texas fans. This thread was basically dormant for the last couple of months. 

I'd guess most fans think QE ended up an underachiever and a bit of a disappointment, and that's why there's not much of a discussion about his pro prospects.

 

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Posted
3 hours ago, immamac said:

If we got the Quinn that played in Tuscaloosa and Ann Arbor Texas doesn't lose a single game either season and is back to back national champions. 

We didn't get that Quinn, it's why he was so frustrating to watch, you knew he was capable of absolutely incredible things and for some reason that Quinn just didn't show up again. The TE room firmly believes it was injury from the conversations I have had with them. 

I like Quinn and think he will do better than most think in the NFL, but I will point out the painful truth about Alabama and Michigan games. They were both game 2 where Sark had an entire offseason to gameplan for them and Quinn had an entire offseason to study them on film while tuning up on a cupcake beforehand. It was peak Quinn, not every week Quinn. 

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Posted

The young Quinn that played vs Bama, at home, was electric as a youngster. Until he got “pile drived” into the turf, in order to not come back. Man, what if that play never happened?

Hook’em!!!

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Posted

If an NFL team can’t develop Quinn’s mental game…he’s not going to last. I’d be curious on any techniques they might use for this. He flat out looks like deer in headlights too many times…and his eyes in the huddle would make me nervous as a teammate.

Posted
2 hours ago, msucolt45 said:

The young Quinn that played vs Bama, at home, was electric as a youngster. Until he got “pile drived” into the turf, in order to not come back. Man, what if that play never happened?

Hook’em!!!

Quinn vs Bama 2022 was the best he ever looked at UT.  literally said out loud “holy shit we have an elite quarterback again.”  then the injury… followed by a couple strong performances mixed in with a massive pile of unmet expectations over the next two and a half years. 

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Posted
7 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

There is no cult-like following for Quinn with Texas fans. This thread was basically dormant for the last couple of months. 

I'd guess most fans think QE ended up an underachiever and a bit of a disappointment, and that's why there's not much of a discussion about his pro prospects.

 

This is spot on. Quinn was just a roller coaster. There were moments of greatness that got everyone excited about his future. There were some WTF throws and ugly games. He was a solid QB, but for the majority of his starts he left you wanting more. Most saw the growth from year 1 to year 2 and were expecting the break out in year 3, unfortunately that did not happen. Turnovers were oddly a huge issue in his last year. 

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Posted
7 hours ago, msucolt45 said:

The young Quinn that played vs Bama, at home, was electric as a youngster. Until he got “pile drived” into the turf, in order to not come back. Man, what if that play never happened?

Hook’em!!!

Fuck Dallas Foster, cheap shotting POS

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Posted
11 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

There is no cult-like following for Quinn with Texas fans

you can call it whatever you want, but there has never been a more mediocre, underwhelming, weak-link-in-the-chain player who has been so inexplicably exalted and singled out for praise by his fan base. from the perennial predictions of heisman trophies and being the no.1 overall draft pack despite his lackluster, hold-the-team-back play, to fans on this site (not to mention every other longhorn bbs) comparing him to colt mccoy and vince young as recently as this january, again, despite him being one of the worst players on the team. it’s fanatical behavior at minimum.

you then have the extremely emotional and combative reactions from our fan base any time anyone dares to state the obvious- that QE wasn’t some all-world qb and leader, and that he actually wasn’t performing up to the standard of everyone around him. you can trash any of his clearly-better teammates with impunity, but for three years, to be critical of quinn ewers was to incur the wrath of your longhorn brethren, no matter how obviously fair and accurate the criticism was. QE was off limits.

to this very moment, the majority of our fan base credits quinn, the player who held us back the most, who potentially prevented the rest of his absolutely loaded rosters from winning back to back national titles with his objectively underwhelming, non threatening playoff performances, with “bringing Texas Football back”. not sark, the real hero- not bijan, or banks, or worthy, murphy, sweat, barron, simmons, etc- our fan base credits the guy who actually held us back, with turning this program around essentially single-handedly, like he’s junior year vince young, and not pocket jitters david ash.

the outpouring of overly emotional “thank you quinn; seriously, thank you for everything” type posts ( it just here, but all over twitter, reddit, pay sites, etc) after he announced for the draft was so beyond bizarre and puzzling it was aggy-like. considering how loaded these last two teams were, and considering that QE, more than any other player, held us back from reaching our potential, i cannot imagine there ever being a more inexplicably overrated, exalted, beloved, and protected player in the history of Texas Football. you may not think that that’s a cult-like following- i do. whatever you call it, the guy has an undeniable pied piper dynamic with our fan base, one that will only look even more strange and inexplicable after arch manning reminds everyone here of what dynamic, top flight qb play and leadership actually looks like later this year. 

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Posted

I'm ok with appreciating QE.  He was a part of bringing us back along with a) Sark, b) NIL, c) being rid of Tom the Herman

 

That being said, there were a lot of national guys that were questioning Quinn and not cuz they're jealous or hate Quinn or Texas.  His passes, even the completions were befuddling and there's plenty of data that says Quinn was just mid.  Couple that with guys throwing the rest of the team, a team with 20+ combine invites and multiple first round picks these last two years under the bus, and you can see the reason for resentment.

Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Derka said:

considering how loaded these last two teams were, and considering that QE, more than any other player, held us back from reaching our potential,

image.png.6e52a5ab5131ca772f76242ba9466475.png

Edited by jimmyjazz
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Posted
16 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

I'm ok with appreciating QE.  He was a part of bringing us back along with a) Sark, b) NIL, c) being rid of Tom the Herman

As much as MensaTom wallowed in pig shit, I gotta give him one thing: he fucking beat Georgia.

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Posted

If "good" Quinn showed up the majority of the time we win at least one of the last two national championships.

Was it all his fault?  Of course not.    He was a good college qb with moments of greatness and a lot of underwhelming games.   Whether that was from injury, or something else, really doesn't matter now.   

If he played llke a true first rounder this year, we win it all.     He didn't, and we didn't.     

Hope he lands at a good spot where he can do well at the next level.  

Posted
4 hours ago, Codaxx said:

This is spot on. Quinn was just a roller coaster. There were moments of greatness that got everyone excited about his future. There were some WTF throws and ugly games. He was a solid QB, but for the majority of his starts he left you wanting more. Most saw the growth from year 1 to year 2 and were expecting the break out in year 3, unfortunately that did not happen. Turnovers were oddly a huge issue in his last year. 

Felt like he plateau'd, I felt the same way and thought year 3 would be much stronger and guarantee himself a first round draft slot.

Posted
19 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

As much as MensaTom wallowed in pig shit, I gotta give him one thing: he fucking beat Georgia.

I'm opening myself up for the group to throw white board erasers at me but Herman did "some" good things here.  All while banging women, being a drunk asshole and fucking up recruiting.  IMO, missing out on the Brocks and that final recruiting class finally did him in.

Posted
21 hours ago, mwaadeeb said:

This is the problem I have with you and your ilk. You continue to say that we won in spite of Quinn Ewers, which is just objectively dumb and wrong (and considering our shit run of QBs over the years, insulting to fans of Texas football). 

^^ The last two years' teams would not have been nearly as accomplished with say.... Swoopes, Heard, Buechele, or Card at QB. I'd debate Sam. Quinn was absolutely a high-floor QB that I think I'll look back on fondly, regardless of his shortcomings. He did not carry his team, he did not "will" his team. His teams were MUCH more talented than any teams to have played on the 40 over the past decade before him. He should be judged accordingly. But, he led, and he performed, most times. 

To say Quinn doesn't belong in the NFL is silly and narrow-minded. I've watched Trey Lance and Cooper Rush take snaps for the Dallas Cowboys. I'd take Quinn over either of those guys in a heartbeat. In fact, Sam, Shane and Garrett Gilbert have all been on multiple NFL rosters, to say Quinn isn't even on their level, or the hordes of no-name reserve QBs across the league, is silly. Quinn will be floating around the league 5 years from now and surly posters will still be posting GM-level opinions to the internet. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

I'm opening myself up for the group to throw white board erasers at me but Herman did "some" good things here.  All while banging women, being a drunk asshole and fucking up recruiting.  IMO, missing out on the Brocks and that final recruiting class finally did him in.

I'm of the opinion, perhaps wholly unfounded, that CDC wouldn't have hired Herman in the first place.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm of the opinion, perhaps wholly unfounded, that CDC wouldn't have hired Herman in the first place.

Probably not, though we would've slaughtered him if it wasn't Tom.  Revisionist but I think 80% of us wanted him.  

Posted
5 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Probably not, though we would've slaughtered him if it wasn't Tom.  Revisionist but I think 80% of us wanted him.  

Oh, I did, but I'm an idiot.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Oh, I did, but I'm an idiot.

We all did.  Looked like the right guy. If you were on o bloods back then. Fat ketch of all people raised flags.  Said he was a known drinker.  

Edited by Im_smarter_then_you
Posted
Just now, Im_smarter_then_you said:

We all did.  Looked like the right guy. If you weee on o bloods back then. Fat ketch of all people raised flags.  Said he was a known drinker.  

I never heard all of the sordid tales.  If there's a summary anywhere, please point me to it.

Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm of the opinion, perhaps wholly unfounded, that CDC wouldn't have hired Herman in the first place.

How often do predetermined hires work out after a firing?

 

Personally I feel like the fan base was enamored with him because of the Oklahoma win

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
22 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Felt like he plateau'd, I felt the same way and thought year 3 would be much stronger and guarantee himself a first round draft slot.

Agreed.  Also felt like the last couple of years he would look really good early against what were good defenses (Bama, Mich).  Then he would get banged up.  And was not the same guy.  Not saying he is a wimp, but he was not the same guy when he was walking wounded.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Agreed.  Also felt like the last couple of years he would look really good early against what were good defenses (Bama, Mich).  Then he would get banged up.  And was not the same guy.  Not saying he is a wimp, but he was not the same guy when he was walking wounded.

Whoever said it upthread I think hit the nail on the head. Those two games had all off-season to prepare for. When it came to the week to week games he seemed to struggle. Is it mental along with the injury/physical? 

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