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[dcbc 14367]

1 hour ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Got it.  But is that truly a removal?  Would federal court decide on Georgia law in that instance?  Or is it a procedural play?   If it’s the former, then can they really still be pardoned given it’s still a state crime?  I am a dumb corporate fake lawyer  that only foggily remembers procedure from the Bar and Mullenix.  

I think we're all a little out of our comfort zone on this stuff.  I'm still looking for the rule that gives the POTUS oversight on state elections.

[dcbc 14367]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I've done a number of federal question removals, remands, even a diversity or two over the years and thought myself pretty familiar with that chapter of 28 USC.

But this one completely escaped my attention.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1442

The procedural details seem really fuzzy, so I have no idea.  But I'd kind of guess because even though it is tried in a federal court and judgment of conviction entered by a federal judge/court, it would still be a violation of state law, subject only to pardon according to that state's law.

One of the problems here is that in the usual case, the federal official has some kind of immunity defense.  They successfully remove it to federal court, plead the immunity, and game over, so it never reaches a trial or conviction stage.

Forgive me for not having gone through the indictment, but do any of the other predicate offenses other than the letter occur after January 21, 2021? 

 

Also, Presidential criminal immunity defense?  Haven't heard of that one.  I get that this may be some sort of stretch on the civil immunity while in office, but there's no statutory support of which I'm aware for immunity from criminal prosecution for the President.  Even the supposed civil immunity while in office has no support in the law.

Edited August 16, 2023 by dcbc

[Constant 6696]

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

How long until he posts on Truth about those messages being PRYVATE!

[Francisco 2.0 32290]

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2023/08/trump-indictment-georgia-co-conspirators/675024/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20230815&utm_term=The Atlantic Daily

 

Quote

Former President Donald Trump now faces his fourth round of felony indictments, this time in Georgia, where prosecutors allege in a racketeering charge that he led an effort to overturn the will of the state’s voters in the 2020 election. Not much more can be said about Trump himself: We can note only so many times that he is an emotionally disordered man, beset by feral insecurities, whose actions have, in the words of the retired federal judge J. Michael Luttig, “corroded and corrupted American democracy.” So let’s leave him aside and turn to his accused co-conspirators in Georgia (at least five of whom appear to be mentioned in Special Counsel Jack Smith’s indictment accusing Trump of a conspiracy to overturn the results of the 2020 election, although Smith has not yet charged them).

 

Quote

The indictments in Georgia depict an alleged racket that looks much like a multilevel-marketing scheme, in which the principals (Trump, his lawyer Rudy Giuliani, and his former chief of staff Mark Meadows) have something they want to sell (in this case, an election lie). They go out and recruit a gullible and ambitious sales force to spread the word (relying on loyalists such as the lawyers Sidney Powell and Jenna Ellis), who then pull in another group of sellers (state legislators, election officials, state party officials, and others). Go down far enough and you’ll find the marks who were willing to serve as fake electors. In the end, they’re all tied to a sham product that is going to cost them their reputation and perhaps even their freedom.

 

 

Quote

But we should not be distracted by the inanity of the alleged plot. The Georgia case is an important window into the actions of Trump’s enablers and courtiers, the mediocre people around the former president who were determined to gain the respect and station to which they felt entitled, regardless of their actual talent. Most of us live our lives as ordinary people doing ordinary jobs. Not every career is fulfilling, and as my working-class father used to say, even Hollywood actors probably hate their job on some days, when they have to drag themselves out of bed for an early-morning call time and sit in a makeup chair for hours. (My one foray into watching real actors at work confirmed this wise observation.)

 

Spoiler

Since he entered politics, however, Trump has played the role of patron saint to this resentful third string. Ellis, for example, began her legal career as a deputy DA in a rural Colorado jurisdiction; she soon marketed herself as a “constitutional law attorney” on television, as The New York Times noted in 2020, despite a lack of experience that had no “apparent bearing on her ability to present herself as someone of great authority.” Unlike Trump, these are not larger-than-life figures. In fact, their most striking characteristics are how small, how odd, and how incompetent they each are—and yet, to judge from the indictments, how dangerous they were as a group.

Among the accused, only Meadows and Giuliani are anything like national figures. (Powell became famous mostly for going on Fox News and peddling unhinged ideas that even Fox management and hosts thought were “kooky” and “crazy.”) Rudy’s descent from “America’s Mayor” to a debt-ridden huckster has been amply documented. Meadows, for his part, seems to be just another politician addicted to life in the capital, whose friends and enemies alike describe him as something of an Eddie Haskell figure, “slippery,” obsequious, and ever-scheming.

I have already written about Jeffrey Clark—or, as I always call him now, “Jeffrey Bossert Clark,” because he reportedly insisted that his full name be used in Justice Department draft briefs—and John Eastman, two of the most egregious figures in this whole affair. Eastman was a law professor, a job that carries a special duty to be intellectually courageous in the face of a possible conspiracy; instead (like the former liberal lawyer turned Trump defenderKenneth Chesebro) he constructed rationales for overturning the election. Clark, at the time of the election a government employee, seems to have been an unexceptional functionary with a professional chip on his shoulder. He may also have been willing to become a danger to his fellow citizens. According to the Smith indictment, when Patrick Philbin, then the deputy White House counsel, warned “Co-Conspirator 4”—who appears to be Clark—that riots would erupt if Trump somehow remained in office beyond his term, Co-Conspirator 4 answered, “Well … that’s why there’s an Insurrection Act.”

Imagine the frisson, the sense of importance a mid-level bureaucrat such as “Co-Conspirator 4” must have felt saying something so hideous.

While some apparatchik was allegedly sitting in Washington, D.C., and blithely considering the possibility of using the U.S. military against fellow Americans, others were at work in Georgia, including Trevian Kutti, a former publicist for the rapper Ye, previously known as Kanye West. She is accused of trying to pressure the Georgia election worker Ruby Freeman to make false statements. (Freeman, along with her daughter and election co-worker Shaye Moss, had their lives upended when they were targeted by Trump and his goon squad.)

Willis is also prosecuting a group of people that is alleged to have been involved in a plot to replace Georgia’s true electors with fakes, including a former chair of the Georgia GOP and a current Georgia state senator. Meanwhile, two women—one of whom was a county election supervisor—have also been charged in an alleged breach of the voting system in Georgia’s Coffee County.

All of these people are indicted, not convicted. But few of Trump’s defenders are arguing that any of the accused didn’t actually do the things they’re charged with doing. Rather, Trump World and its associated outlets seem to be disputing whether any of these acts are crimes. (In a statement issued today, Trump’s lawyers said that the Georgia indictment “is undoubtedly just as flawed and unconstitutional as this entire process has been.”)

Nonetheless, without Trump, most of these people would never have been in remote proximity to the levers of national power. When Trump lost, they lost. The brass ring of power and influence—and, perhaps more than anything else, respect—was pulled away just inches from their hands. They now all have the importance they craved, but likely not in the way they expected.

 

[dcbc 14367]

54 minutes ago, Pancho said:

The word "indicated" is my new safe word.

[Born to Run 6420]

Counterpoint - can you imagine the official duties of people in the Trump White House?
Prosecutor: What official duties would you perform in the Trump Administration on a typical day?
Co-Conspirator: My daily duties primarily consisted of making fake Time Magazine Person of the Year covers and framing them in the Oval Office.  I also was in charge of ghostwriting some of the President’s Twitter posts, but only the ones when he would talk about Kanye.
Prosecutor: And what was your official title?
Co-Conspirator: I was the Attorney General. 

To be fair to him, Attorney General Kid Rock wasn't well qualified for the position.

[Francisco 2.0 32290]

Heh.

 

 

 

 

[Bullneck 18959]

 

 

[Bullneck 18959]

This jail needs a Trump! makeover.  The condition is deplorable.

 

 

[Beau Vine 53845]

$20 says that Jenna transforms into a very born-again Christian by the end of the year.

[Radical Larry 28498]

 
 

Rudy will probably fart on her again if she asks nicely.

[Francisco 2.0 32290]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

$20 says that Jenna transforms into a very born-again Christian by the end of the year.

End of the year?  I'm thinking by the end of August.

 

 

[Js1 84995]

7 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

 

 

I love when people have to pay the DC Tax

Dumb Cunt 

[bolverk 29261]

5 hours ago, The Dog said:

 

 

Yeah, this is really good. Even my dumb ass can understand the conspiracy here. Anyone having trouble following the whole thing should read this straightforward summary.

Quote

 

Georgia Trump Indictment: Explained
I read the indictment. This is my summary.

I wanted to explain the Georgia indictment as clearly and succinctly as possible. I come to this with a unique perspective. I was involved in Republican politics for decades and monitored this scheme as it was unfolding in real time. I am also a former federal prosecutor in Georgia, and am one of the few lawyers in America who has defended a huge, complex RICO jury trial and won.

RICO LAW

Most people know that Congress enacted the RICO statute decades ago as a powerful tool to break up the mafia families. However, it has also been used in state and federal courts to prosecute white collar fraud, criminal street gangs, drug trafficking organizations and a host of other criminal enterprises.

Many criminal organizations, such as the mafia, are set up by a leader who doesn't necessarily do the dirty work themselves. People are recruited by others to engage in criminal conduct in furtherance of the conspiracy. A mob boss typically doesn't commit the murders, rob the banks, or sell the drugs himself. Other people do that for them. The leaders may not even know many of the people in their organization because they make sure that they have direct contact with as few people as possible.

The RICO statute is designed to be able to convict the leaders of criminal enterprises and hold them accountable for the crimes committed by their underlings, even though on a daily basis they didn't directly order each specific crime. The "soldiers" or "workers" are expected to "earn" by committing crimes.  The boss doesn't want or need to know what those crimes are, just that a percentage of the proceeds is paid up to the bosses.

To prove RICO, you have to prove that a group of individuals were organized and put together to accomplish an unlawful objective. You then have to prove that there was some kind of structure or organization, with various people receiving direction from above and carrying out certain missions "in furtherance" of the criminal objective. RICO statutes typically require 2-3 "predicate acts" be committed by each of the charged defendants.

In the Trump RICO indictment, he is charged with organizing a criminal conspiracy to attempt to overturn the 2020 election. His co-defendants are charged with joining that conspiracy and committing unlawful acts to accomplish the goal. These acts included false statements and perjury, impersonating public officials, forgery, filing false documents, computer theft and hacking, fraud, theft of documents, and tampering with witnesses.

THE TRUMP RICO INDICTMENT

This is how the conspiracy played out according to the indictment:

Rudy Giuliani, Jenna Ellis and Sidney Powell made false statements at a press conference in Nov 2020 with wild accusations of fraud.

Trump, Mark Meadows, and John McEntee draft a memo for their plan to disrupt and delay counting electoral votes from 6 states on J6. Pence was to refuse to count those states and return the issue to the state legislatures who would the adopt the alternate slate of Trump electors, citing "fraud."

Rudy, Jenna, John Eastman and Atlanta lawyer Ray Smith solicited 14 GA Senators to sign off on their fake electors based on voter fraud.

Rudy and Trump made separate phone calls to the President of the GA Senate claiming voter fraud.

Trump calls Gov Brian Kemp to pressure him to call a Special Session. Kemp refused.

Trump then tweets that Kemp and Lt. Gov Duncan are ignoring fraud and refusing to call a Special Session. This begins a pattern where Trump would lie, GA officials would say he is wrong, then Trump would tweet to his millions of followers that they are being traitors and the public should pressure them to go along with the scheme.  This happens over and over.

Powell hires a firm to illegally breach voting machines to collect data to try to show votes were "flipped."

Eastman and GA lawyer Robert Cheeley plan to set up meetings in 6 states where alternate slates of electors would be selected and would sign false certificates for Trump.

Cheeley sends an email to a GA Senator saying Eastman told him a Special Session must be called immediately where the GA legislature would approve the alternate electors on the grounds of fraud.

A "Patriot Call to Action" is tweeted calling on people to pressure GA officials to call a Special Session.

Trump has campaign official Bill White get personal and contact info on the GA Senate President and Majority Leader. White sends the info to Rudy.

Trump then calls the Speaker of the House to demand a Special Session.

Trump then calls the GA AG asking him to investigate false claims of fraud and to join the lawsuit filed by other state AGs in Texas.

Trump and Eastman call Ronna McDaniel to ask her to help them recruit people to serve as fake electors.

Trump attorney Kenneth Chesebro writes a memo to Trump campaign attorney outlining how the fake elector scheme would work.

Documents were then sent out to the state GOP Chairs for the 6 contested states for the fake electors to sign.

Rudy then testifies to the GA House the following fabricated things: Video showed election workers stealing votes, Ruby Freeman was using USB ports to flip votes, 96,000 fraudulent mail-in ballots were counted.  This was all made up.

Rudy calls WI GOP official to tell him to keep the fake elector scheme secret.

Chesebro sends email to Rudy with multiple different plans to disrupt or delay counting the electoral votes on J6.

Rudy sends email telling everyone in each state to keep the fake elector meetings secret.

Trump tweets out, "Demand this clown call a special session now!" referring to Kemp.

Fake electors in 6 states meet and sign the false certificates under oath that they were "the duly elected and qualified electors" for their states.

Illinois pastor Stephen Lee is recruited to drive to Ruby Freeman's house in an attempt to coerce her into falsely confessing to fraud.

When Freeman refused to speak to Lee, he asked Harrison Floyd with Black Voices for Trump to help him. He said he thought Freeman wouldn't speak to him because he was white.

Rudy and Powell meet with Trump at the WH to discuss strategy, which included seizing voting machines and appointing Powell as Special Counsel to investigate fraud.

Powell hires a firm to hack and copy voting data from Dominion machines.

Meadows flies to GA and attempts to observe an audit of signature-verification ballots by investigators. He is denied entry because it isn't a public meeting.

Trump then calls the Chief Investigator, tells him that he won, and pressures him to find fraud: "When the right answer comes out, you'll be praised."

Eastman then sends email to Chesbro saying that the best plan was to get Pence (or Grassley if Pence was absent for some reason) to "act boldly and be challenged," because that would cause a delay that could throw things back to state legislatures.

Meadows then offers to pay the Chief Investigator out of Trump campaign funds if he will speed up the audit.

Trump then asks AG Jeffrey Rosen and Dep. AG Richard Donoghue to "just say the election was corrupt, and leave the rest to me and GOP congressmen." They refuse.

Jeff Clark writes up a document falsely claiming that DOJ "identified significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome" of the election. Clark then asks Rosen and Donoghue to sign it so he can send it to Kemp. They refuse.

Trump then tweets that Kemp should resign.

A hearing is then held before the GA Senate, where three Trump witnesses gave the following false testimony:

Rudy testified falsely that the same ballots were counted 5 times, 2,560 felons voted, and 10,315 dead people voted.

Ray Smith testified falsely that the Sect of State admitted 8,000 people voted illegally and claimed the Sec of State said the election was only 90% accurate.

Cheeley testified falsely that election workers counted some ballots over and over again.

Jenna then wrote a memo to Trump that Pence should not open the envelopes with the votes from the 6 states because they were "in dispute."

Trump and Eastman then file an injunction against Kemp citing multiple false claims of fraud. Earlier that day, Eastman had sent a memo to Trump campaign attorneys that he knew that some of the allegations of fraud in the lawsuit were false.

Trump and Meadows then call Brad Raffensperger on the recorded call. Trump makes 12 different false statements in that call.

Trump then tweets out that Raffensperger won't listen to him. "He has no clue!"

Lee, Harrison Floyd, and Kanye West publicist Trevian Kutti all make 11 different phone calls to Ruby Freeman. She won't talk to them.

Kutti then flies to GA from Chicago and drives to Freeman's house. She told the neighbor she was a "crisis manager" and was there to help her.

Kutti finally meets with Freeman for an hour and offers her "protection and help" if she will confess to fraud. She asks her to sign a statement that she committed fraud. She refuses.

Trump then tweets, "The VP has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors."

Eastman then meets with Pence Chief of Staff Marc Short to get Pence to reject electors.

Trump then meets with Pence. Pence refuses to go along with it. Trump told him he was naïve and lacked courage.

Trump later calls Pence and tried again.

Trump then calls Pence another time and tells him "you got to be tough tomorrow."

Trump then puts out a statement falsely claiming that Pence agreed with him that he has the power to reject electors.

Then the indictment details what happened on J6.

The indictment then lays out the scheme orchestrated by Sidney Powell where they hacked voting machines in Coffee County, took ballots, took confidential voter info, data and software illegally.

The bottom line is that the proof in this case is overwhelming. The fact that this trial is going to be public and televised will be extremely valuable.  The American public can see and hear and all facts, and don't have to rely on media filters. The evidence in this case is devastating for Trump and his co-conspirators.  I fully expect many of them to cut deals to testify against Trump, where even more incriminating evidence will come to light.

 

 

[Foosters 17688]

1 minute ago, Radical Larry said:

Rudy will probably fart on her again if she asks nicely.

He charges $45 for that on Cameo so she's actually coming out ahead 

[Pig Bellmont 8664]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

We need a vomit rep reaction 

[YGIFS 19447]

He's not gonna do real time in that prison you fucking naive plebs.  

He will likely have to do a cosmetic 24 hours inside booking for legal optics.  

Damn shame that month is when the food service provider to the mess hall is conveniently changed while he's there.  Hard to keep tabs on that kinda supply chain.  

[TwiceHorn 31085]

59 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Also, Presidential criminal immunity defense?  Haven't heard of that one.

Of course you haven't.  Just like you hadn't heard of many of the executive privilege and immunity assertions Trump made over the last couple of years.

They likely don't exist, but, because they've never been ruled on, the argument can be made and has to be given due consideration.

The notion of executive immunity from prosecution while holding office is not actual law, as I think you know.  It's a "prudential" analysis by the OLC/DOJ that he shouldn't be prosecuted or even charged while holding office.  The Supreme Court might adopt that analysis, it might not; it might reach the same result, it might not.  Addendum:  it hasn't been tested because the policy itself means POTUS won't be indicted or prosecuted while in office, so it will never reach a federal court.  States aren't constrained by that policy, but no state prosecutor has had the temerity thus far to provoke a constitutional crisis by indicting the sitting President, and probably won't.  Congress could probably codify it and maybe should, along with a tolling of the statute of limitations while a POTUS holds office, or at least the latter.

It certainly doesn't extend beyond the term of office by its own terms, but Trump is going to try to extend it, and has without success in civil suits over 1/6, and somewhat relatedly via the Westfall Act (another of these federal official immunity things that only applies to civil torts committed while in office) in the Carroll case.

The argument goes:  Presidential immunity from prosecution while in office exists to avoid interruption and distraction to the executive while carrying out his duties, especially if that interruption/distraction comes from politically motivated prosecutions.  That immunity should extend beyond the term of office for acts done while in office (and maybe even after) because no one will want to be President if they can be prosecuted for every little unpleasant thing they did in office.  In other words, it would have a "chilling effect" on the executive in carrying out the functions of his office.

Its very similar to an argument to extend executive privilege assertions to presidents out of office, but we've seen that that has been mostly shot down, especially if the current officeholder doesn't agree to assert the privilege.

I don't think it's going to fly, and it hasn't yet, but it's out there and it hasn't been conclusively ruled out.

Edited August 16, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[dcbc 14367]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Of course you haven't.  Just like you hadn't heard of many of the executive privilege and immunity assertions Trump made over the last couple of years.

They likely don't exist, but, because they've never been ruled on, the argument can be made and has to be given due consideration.

The notion of executive immunity from prosecution while holding office is not actual law, as I think you know.  It's a "prudential" analysis by the OLC/DOJ that he shouldn't be prosecuted or even charged while holding office.  The Supreme Court might adopt that analysis, it might not; it might reach the same result, it might not.

It certainly doesn't extend beyond the term of office by its own terms, but Trump is going to try to extend it, and has without success in civil suits over 1/6, and somewhat relatedly via the Westfall Act (another of these federal official immunity things that only applies while in office) in the Carroll case.

The argument goes:  Presidential immunity from prosecution while in office exists to avoid interruption and distraction to the executive while carrying out his duties, especially if that interruption/distraction comes from politically motivated prosecutions.  That immunity should extend beyond the term of office for acts done while in office (and maybe even after) because no one will want to be President if they can be prosecuted for every little unpleasant thing they did in office.  In other words, it would have a "chilling effect" on the executive in carrying out the functions of his office.

I don't think it's going to fly, and it hasn't yet, but it's out there and it hasn't been conclusively ruled out.

 

I was editing my post while you were typing that to be a little less terse.  Your post that I was responding to made it sound (at least as I read it) like it was "ballgame/KingsX." 

 

Yes, I get that they've operated under that notion (civilly at least) while he's in office.  And like every other defense, he'll throw it at the wall to see if it sticks.  But that one probably will just leave a nice brown stain.

 

I wonder if he'll try to declare "criminal bankruptcy"?

Edited August 16, 2023 by dcbc

[TwiceHorn 31085]

2 minutes ago, dcbc said:

 

I was editing my post while you were typing that to be a little less terse.  Your post that I was responding to made it sound (at least as I read it) like it was "ballgame/KingsX." 

 

Yes, I get that they've operated under that notion (civilly at least) while he's in office.  And like every other defense, he'll throw it at the wall to see if it sticks.  But that one probably will just leave a nice brown stain.

 

I wonder if he'll try to declare "criminal bankruptcy"?

Nah, I wrote that up for the peanut gallery as much or more than for you, as I knew your response was tongue in cheek.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13530]

33 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

 

 

The More They Indict

The More We Unite

 

 

 

 

* Jenna not included

[dcbc 14367]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Nah, I wrote that up for the peanut gallery as much or more than for you, as I knew your response was tongue in cheek.

Be careful or you'll have to write a retraction like I did for the no probation under GA's RICO statute post, which resulted in the great probation/parole debate of August 2023.

[Horn Dogg 3796]

I wonder what he really wanted to say when he typed out the last word?

[Francisco 2.0 32290]

[cactusflinthead 27588]

 

[conVINCEd 21468]

2 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

[SydneyCarton 47809]

1 minute ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Hilariously, I’d buy that graph as potentially legit. Mail In Ballots and Absentees being counted make perfect sense in regards to a graph timeline like that. 
 

 

[brakeman 28202]

 

[TwiceHorn 31085]

1 minute ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

I don't know, but there is going to be an absolute traffic jam/horse race to get this sumbitch tried and convicted first.  

And this Georgia thing is going to be a six-month white whale, especially if she tries to try any significant number of these people together, as is her stated intention.

 

[dcbc 14367]

15 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't know, but there is going to be an absolute traffic jam/horse race to get this sumbitch tried and convicted first.  

And this Georgia thing is going to be a six-month white whale, especially if she tries to try any significant number of these people together, as is her stated intention.

 

I'm convinced that answer was just to remove any hope that she was going to slow roll it.  She's done enough RICO trials to know how many is too many and probably has an order all planned out once she gets a few co-conspirators to flip.  If we take the election out of the question, I'd assume it's not advantageous to the prosecution try Trump first.

Edited August 16, 2023 by dcbc

[Born to Run 6420]

He's not gonna do real time in that prison you fucking naive plebs.  
He will likely have to do a cosmetic 24 hours inside booking for legal optics.  
Damn shame that month is when the food service provider to the mess hall is conveniently changed while he's there.  Hard to keep tabs on that kinda supply chain.  

I know your play here.
/swipes nose.

[YGIFS 19447]

the paranoia of looking over your shoulder for whatever 18 other people might do. Hmm.  What might happen in New York, will he finally give a shit what his kids think of him?  What is loans started getting called in?  What if the capital stack house of cards of his real estate "empire" crumble?  What if his theft of top secret documents is an issue?  What if other people start selling him out to save their ass?  What if Georgia's case really begins to move the walls in on him?  What if being associated with the January 6th attempt to overturn a legitimate government may not have been a good idea?  What if Putin turns his back, his creditors call his bullshit, people realize the ruse and quit sending him money, and he's left penniless and no toupee?  What if just a couple of the things come crashing in him?  At his age, with his health, and his weight.  Most of you on this thread will forget more law between now and breakfast than I'll ever know.  But you're overlooking something.  We're out of time and legally exhausted with a non-starter SCOTUS.  

The strategy is to box him in so we get to the new end game.  He's not going to sit in a jail cell.  MAGA nation will not be going anywhere.  He needs to be run around the country from trial to trial, fundraiser to fundraiser, con to con, fraud to fraud.  He is going to die much sooner than his people believe.  The macro strategy is run him so ragged and stress him beyond fucking believe that his body gives up in about 10-15 months that he dies.  He is not going to see jail.  He is not going to admit his faults.  He is not going to be up for appeal, parole, cajole, or Bob's Your Uncle.  The man is going to pass out and die in 10-15 months because even the most narcissistic sociopath can't embark on the physical agenda that his 78 year old cardiac fat fuck glop of shit soul is about to attempt.  This has all been engineered so that no sitting or former President ever has to stand inside Cell Block C.  But he can sure as fuck die within sight of it.  And we are, most of us, going to OD on the thrill.  Steel yourselves folks.  He's going to bend the judicial system like a child getting away with stealing candy.  But between all of it and the campaign, his heart will give out or his handlers will make sure he never opens his fucking mouth because he chokes out on his own tongue.  

I just hope we have enough drugs to properly celebrate.  

[TwiceHorn 31085]

5 minutes ago, dcbc said:

I'm convinced that answer was just to remove any hope that she was going to slow roll it.  She's done enough RICO trials to know how many is too many and probably has an order all planned out once she gets a few co-conspirators to flip.  If we take the election out of the question, I'd assume it's not advantageous to the prosecution try Trump first.

Perhaps this YSL deal is instructive:  28 defendants originally indicted, two never having appeared, eight taking deals, and four severed from the case as unrepresented, leaving 14 defendants.

[brakeman 28202]

[Born to Run 6420]

I don't know, but there is going to be an absolute traffic jam/horse race to get this sumbitch tried and convicted first.  
And this Georgia thing is going to be a six-month white whale, especially if she tries to try any significant number of these people together, as is her stated intention.
 

I figured Georgia would take 2 more years to try and Jack Smith has the least slow path forward?

*Georgia is doing things correctly by the law, even though it's going to drag on for years.

[dcbc 14367]

7 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

the paranoia of looking over your shoulder for whatever 18 other people might do. Hmm.  What might happen in New York, will he finally give a shit what his kids think of him?  What is loans started getting called in?  What if the capital stack house of cards of his real estate "empire" crumble?  What if his theft of top secret documents is an issue?  What if other people start selling him out to save their ass?  What if Georgia's case really begins to move the walls in on him?  What if being associated with the January 6th attempt to overturn a legitimate government may not have been a good idea?  What if Putin turns his back, his creditors call his bullshit, people realize the ruse and quit sending him money, and he's left penniless and no toupee?  What if just a couple of the things come crashing in him?  At his age, with his health, and his weight.  Most of you on this thread will forget more law between now and breakfast than I'll ever know.  But you're overlooking something.  We're out of time and legally exhausted with a non-starter SCOTUS.  

The strategy is to box him in so we get to the new end game.  He's not going to sit in a jail cell.  MAGA nation will not be going anywhere.  He needs to be run around the country from trial to trial, fundraiser to fundraiser, con to con, fraud to fraud.  He is going to die much sooner than his people believe.  The macro strategy is run him so ragged and stress him beyond fucking believe that his body gives up in about 10-15 months that he dies.  He is not going to see jail.  He is not going to admit his faults.  He is not going to be up for appeal, parole, cajole, or Bob's Your Uncle.  The man is going to pass out and die in 10-15 months because even the most narcissistic sociopath can't embark on the physical agenda that his 78 year old cardiac fat fuck glop of shit soul is about to attempt.  This has all been engineered so that no sitting or former President ever has to stand inside Cell Block C.  But he can sure as fuck die within sight of it.  And we are, most of us, going to OD on the thrill.  Steel yourselves folks.  He's going to bend the judicial system like a child getting away with stealing candy.  But between all of it and the campaign, his heart will give out or his handlers will make sure he never opens his fucking mouth because he chokes out on his own tongue.  

I just hope we have enough drugs to properly celebrate.  

They need to get the forfeiture arm under the RICO statute going to get some of the "Enterprise's" financial gains.

[The Dog 43716]

Former Trump WH lawyer Ty Cobb on Trump promising to release a “large complex, detailed, but irrefutable report on the presidential election fraud”:

“There’s a good chance that whatever document he produces ends up as evidence against him. It could even end up as the basis for an obstruction count against the author because it’s likely to be fiction and solely for the purpose of contaminating the jury pool.”

[TwiceHorn 31085]

3 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Former Trump WH lawyer Ty Cobb on Trump promising to release a “large complex, detailed, but irrefutable report on the presidential election fraud”:

“There’s a good chance that whatever document he produces ends up as evidence against him. It could even end up as the basis for an obstruction count against the author because it’s likely to be fiction and solely for the purpose of contaminating the jury pool.”

There's almost no way it could assist his defense even if it were probative of anything and his belief or correctness about election fraud was a valid issue.

It can't possibly have aftected his state of mind 2.5 years ago.

That's one thing I enjoy pointing out to Trumpkins.  Things that may prove election fraud after he lies about election fraud don't make the lies true.  Unless you think he's the Amazing Kreskin, too.  

[Born to Run 6420]

the paranoia of looking over your shoulder for whatever 18 other people might do. Hmm.  What might happen in New York, will he finally give a shit what his kids think of him?  What is loans started getting called in?  What if the capital stack house of cards of his real estate "empire" crumble?  What if his theft of top secret documents is an issue?  What if other people start selling him out to save their ass?  What if Georgia's case really begins to move the walls in on him?  What if being associated with the January 6th attempt to overturn a legitimate government may not have been a good idea?  What if Putin turns his back, his creditors call his bullshit, people realize the ruse and quit sending him money, and he's left penniless and no toupee?  What if just a couple of the things come crashing in him?  At his age, with his health, and his weight.  Most of you on this thread will forget more law between now and breakfast than I'll ever know.  But you're overlooking something.  We're out of time and legally exhausted with a non-starter SCOTUS.  
The strategy is to box him in so we get to the new end game.  He's not going to sit in a jail cell.  MAGA nation will not be going anywhere.  He needs to be run around the country from trial to trial, fundraiser to fundraiser, con to con, fraud to fraud.  He is going to die much sooner than his people believe.  The macro strategy is run him so ragged and stress him beyond fucking believe that his body gives up in about 10-15 months that he dies.  He is not going to see jail.  He is not going to admit his faults.  He is not going to be up for appeal, parole, cajole, or Bob's Your Uncle.  The man is going to pass out and die in 10-15 months because even the most narcissistic sociopath can't embark on the physical agenda that his 78 year old cardiac fat fuck glop of shit soul is about to attempt.  This has all been engineered so that no sitting or former President ever has to stand inside Cell Block C.  But he can sure as fuck die within sight of it.  And we are, most of us, going to OD on the thrill.  Steel yourselves folks.  He's going to bend the judicial system like a child getting away with stealing candy.  But between all of it and the campaign, his heart will give out or his handlers will make sure he never opens his fucking mouth because he chokes out on his own tongue.  
I just hope we have enough drugs to properly celebrate.  

I like your optimism. But it's misguided. We have a dog here we love dearly but he is a dangerous asshole. We've expected he had 6 months left for 6 years. And we are talking about a dog that has feelings and is loved. That goes a ways. But Assholes tend to live a long time. And don't bow out gracefully.

Dotard is the most loved human ever by himself, and many Americans. He should be dead based on weight, rage and age. He should be in jail. Somebody he cheated should have wacked him long ago. Russia should have poisoned him; or some Eastern Euro broad. He should be a financial wreck. He should have been a disgraced failed candidate not Potus. It should be laughable and illegal that he can even run again.

Yet here we are.

I tend to respect trajectories and will steel myself with the horrible notion this bastard makes another 6 years If nothing else just to suck oxygen to fuel his narcissism. It's going to suck balls and at times be tighter than it should, and will further lower our global standing- it ends how it ends though.

[Pato del Muerto 52232]

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

1) axis labels and units?

2) why does the red line begin above the blue, when they both should begin at zero?  Rigged?

[Rimbo 25705]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

 

good God, spoiler that shit

Edited August 16, 2023 by Rimbo

[Rimbo 25705]

2 hours ago, Radical Larry said:

AND DON'T FUCKING QUOTE THAT SHIT

[TwiceHorn 31085]

26 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

I like your optimism. But it's misguided. We have a dog here we love dearly but he is a dangerous asshole. We've expected he had 6 months left for 6 years. And we are talking about a dog that has feelings and is loved. That goes a ways. But Assholes tend to live a long time. And don't bow out gracefully.

Dotard is the most loved human ever by himself, and many Americans. He should be dead based on weight, rage and age. He should be in jail. Somebody he cheated should have wacked him long ago. Russia should have poisoned him; or some Eastern Euro broad. He should be a financial wreck. He should have been a disgraced failed candidate not Potus. It should be laughable and illegal that he can even run again.

Yet here we are.

I tend to respect trajectories and will steel myself with the horrible notion this bastard makes another 6 years If nothing else just to suck oxygen to fuel his narcissism. It's going to suck balls and at times be tighter than it should, and will further lower our global standing- it ends how it ends though.

Still and all, this has got to be incredibly stressful for him.  It's quite unlike anything he's ever experienced.

[Pato del Muerto 52232]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Still and all, this has got to be incredibly stressful for him.  It's quite unlike anything he's ever experienced.

Do people like him feel stress?  Or does he just presume things will all go his way because he’s so smart and can get people to do what he wants, and it’s always worked before?

[TwiceHorn 31085]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Do people like him feel stress?  Or does he just presume things will all go his way because he’s so smart and can get people to do what he wants, and it’s always worked before?

Fair question, but a couple of things that may or may not have dawned on him.  He's going to actually have to sit through his criminal trials, unlike his few civil trials that he can't be assed to attend.  He's probably going to have to sit through some motion hearings too.

He's probably never experienced such an imposition.

[Pato del Muerto 52232]

Nobody expects the Georgian imposition!

[Rimbo 25705]

46 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Former Trump WH lawyer Ty Cobb on Trump promising to release a “large complex, detailed, but irrefutable report on the presidential election fraud”:

“There’s a good chance that whatever document he produces ends up as evidence against him. It could even end up as the basis for an obstruction count against the author because it’s likely to be fiction and solely for the purpose of contaminating the jury pool.”

 

39 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

There's almost no way it could assist his defense even if it were probative of anything and his belief or correctness about election fraud was a valid issue.

It can't possibly have aftected his state of mind 2.5 years ago.

That's one thing I enjoy pointing out to Trumpkins.  Things that may prove election fraud after he lies about election fraud don't make the lies true.  Unless you think he's the Amazing Kreskin, too.  

 

The guy doesn't seem to understand that the right to remain silent helps the defendant.

Which only makes this funnier!  

[jimmyjazz 45428]

Anybody care to take a crack at how a counting total might start to diminish at some point in time?  Were there negative ballots?

Also, if the step change in blue votes were the result of tampering (i.e., votes being flipped), why isn't there a similar but opposite step change in the red votes?

So many questions.  So much data.  Math is hard.

Edited August 16, 2023 by jimmyjazz

[Pato del Muerto 52232]

Ty Cobb huh. 
 

waiting for forensic data scientist Dr. Bunsen Honeydew to tel us about data integrity. 

[Pato del Muerto 52232]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Anybody care to take a crack at how a counting total might start to diminish at some point in time?  Were there negative ballots?

Also the counting really appears to slow down as time goes on (assuming time is the x) the first few unnamed time units they were really hustling.  
 

also also her contention is that trump actually won Fulton county Georgia?

also also also does that chart margin look like 2:1 blue?

Edited August 16, 2023 by Pato del Muerto