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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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Posted
2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Specifically, back room deal making by people who have no real constituencies in the party! This isn't 1950; the delegates aren't actually important party officials who represent local interests or specific interest groups! It's just fuckin random Democrats who wanted to go to the convention because they're dorks and agreed to vote for Biden! Just tossing it to them and telling them to figure it out would be completely fucking insane and would destroy the party.

I’m already drunk.

I am in agreement with you in principle, but Im just not hopeful that Harris gets the win because of her skin color. I’d like to win this one, so please convince me I’m wrong.
 

The fact we are even doing this bullshit is 100% on the Biden/harris camp lie we were fed about his fitness to be the nominee.

there was a mini primary idea floated that involved town halls and seemed reasonable to me. 
 

Posted
12 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

I swear. This thread is the only place I see on the entire internet where Biden is suddenly this feeble Lame Duck candidate that just HAS to be removed or else Trump will become dictator. Everywhere else, they're circling the wagons.

Bizarro world is here. Reality is not reflected in this thread. Get a clue.

I can't speak to what you're looking at online, but are you aware of all of the calls from prominent democrats for Biden to drop out? Some issued publicly and some told to Biden in person. You think this is a Surly issue only?

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

I swear. This thread is the only place I see on the entire internet where Biden is suddenly this feeble Lame Duck candidate that just HAS to be removed or else Trump will become dictator. Everywhere else, they're circling the wagons.

Bizarro world is here. Reality is not reflected in this thread. Get a clue.

I encourage you to question what sites you’re looking at on the internet, and to also have updated conversations with friends/colleagues. 

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Posted
16 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

I swear. This thread is the only place I see on the entire internet where Biden is suddenly this feeble Lame Duck candidate that just HAS to be removed or else Trump will become dictator. Everywhere else, they're circling the wagons.

Bizarro world is here. Reality is not reflected in this thread. Get a clue.


GIF by Schitt's Creek

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Posted
Just now, Ghost of LL said:

Donors play a part, of course.  But it's not just them.  It's volunteers.  And it's local party officials.  And they're all signaling that there is a massive enthusiasm gap.

She's doing it because she has the best political instincts of any Democrat of her generation.  And she sees an iceberg dead ahead.

I think you're giving her far too little credit when you ascribe her political instincts to some donors.

Nancy has exhibited dogshit political instincts for the entirety of the Trump era of American politics and hasn't spoken with anyone who could be confused for a regular American in years.  She's the definition of an out-of-touch California liberal.  

I don't disagree with you that most Democratic voters would prefer a younger candidate or that there is an enthusiasm problem now that has been exacerbated by the debate. But parallel to that is absolutely an attempt by wealthy donors to regain greater control over the party and they're just using the debate as a pretext for that, and their ratfucking campaign has helped continue to churn out more and more media focus on this. They're even admitting that it's not about the debate on the record to the Times. That's fucking brazen. And what's really rotten about it is none of them are saying they'll support Harris.

If they get what they want and Biden steps aside, I bet they'll only be further emboldened and they'll try to ratfuck Harris too. Because with these assholes, if they can't control the party then they don't care if it survives.

Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Give her the damn ticket

That's the thing. Who is going to deliver this message better? Kamala or Joe? Right now, it's not Joe. Would it be Joe in September and October? It's got to be her. Your record in the office doesn't seem to be resonating. So now you have to contrast yourself with the other guy. I just don't see this era of Joe Biden able to do that any longer in a way that won't have people white knuckling the entire speech.

Do we honestly feel Biden is going to get better at delivering the message in a way that resonates with voters? I just don't see it any longer. The perception of him is now the reality. You can blame the media. You can also blame screwing up on the biggest stage imaginable. 

Edited by mdmost
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Donors play a part, of course.  But it's not just them.  It's volunteers.  And it's local party officials.  And they're all signaling that there is a massive enthusiasm gap.

 

I saw that and agree re volunteers but I won't go back into why I think we are here. Instead I will repeat that as of now I agree he has to step down, and I haven't argued otherwise. I'm angered that we are at this juncture and for the causes (which some of you dispute), that's all.

5 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I can't speak to what you're looking at online, but are you aware of all of the calls from prominent democrats for Biden to drop out? Some issued publicly and some told to Biden in person. You think this is a Surly issue only?

I mean it's probably a surly 0.01% issue for sure. It's being reported several of those Dems were money whipped to speak out against Biden publicly.

Edited by troph
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Any chance this gets thrown into some mini primary or floor vote?  Still think Whitmer wins that.

Yeah, we know. You’ve made your fanboi obsession with Whitmer perfectly clear over and over and over again. We get it. 

Edited by WhatTheBuck
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Posted
Just now, WhatTheBuck said:

Yeah, we know. You’ve made your fanboi obsession with Whitmer perfectly clear over and over and over again. We get it. 

I mean his username kinda checks out.

Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Reminder that the Trump/Vance ticket is incredibly easy to campaign against if you are capable of delivering the message:

'

Hit the points. Made the argument. Clever little quip at the end.

She got this. Busting out my Kamala Harris For the People shirt 

Edited by Js1
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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Hit the points. Made the argument. Clever little quip at the end.

She got this 

no doubt she's a fantastic orator and debater, one of the best in a long while, but we knew that from her primary run in 2020. Maybe its PTSD from HRC and post-Obama backlash, but god I hope we don't run into a racist/sexist anti-Harris buzz saw (among suburban white women and others) in swing states. The number of women who might vote for a man (Dem) but will simply say a woman (per se) isn't qualified to be POTUS might shock us all.

Edited by troph
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Posted
2 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Lol.  Oh, so you were saying the Governor of Pennsylvania has "high name recognition" in...checks notes...Pennsylvania?

kristen-wiig-no-waih.gif

And no... I was born in PA and still have a lot family there, but I live in Austin.

Jesus. Yes, that's the point, the lack of national name recognition for Shapiro is not as big of a deal because he is well known and liked in Pennsylvania. You may have heard that the results in PA are somewhat important in this election given the Electoral College implications. To the extent that a VP moves the needle, and I don't think it's very much, that is a value add over the Governor of KY who is a JAG in the minds of undecided voters in swing states.

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

From the Times yesterday:

This is very clearly a literal Dem elite conspiracy that at least to a significant degree isn't even a response to the debate, but to Biden's too-progressive (in their eyes) domestic policies and their lack of access to and control over the White House. The debate was just the perfect excuse for many of these guys.  But the problem is that Biden really can't rebut the narrative that has taken on a life of its own. Sometimes he's energetic, but he'll stumble, and sometimes it's really bad like in that BET interview. And this is still THE story even during the RNC right after someone took a shot at Trump, so it's pretty clear that the NYTimes and other corporate media won't end up moving on to something else, but will keep fucking this chicken right up to the election.  There's an alternate timeline where Biden is still like a 25% better communicator than he is now where he could probably run against the party elites and the media on this and even turn it into a positive issue for him, but that's not the Biden we have.

I don't even know that it actually improves our chances, but I think at this point it would be best for Biden to step aside for Harris.  The media will absolutely try to ratfuck her too, but at least she might be able to counter whatever they're going to hit her on. But she'll need to run as the inheritor of Biden's more progressive policies and somehow rebuke the donors for trying to take over the entire party.  Because if she begins showing signs of moderating to please the donors after they sabotaged Biden in a hissy fit that he wasn't treating them like special boys, the party will tear itself apart. 

I tend to agree. The Biden administration has been the most progressive in my lifetime and governed in a much more progressive manner than I, and I think most of the progressive wing of the party, expected. I think this is why the progressive wing of the party is pretty quiet when it comes to calling for him to go. That and they mostly represent relatively safe seats with little incentive to participate in this spectacle at all.

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

That is not at all what happened in 2015/16.  And I'm really starting to get very pissed at Biden and his people for out-and-out lying about this shit.

Biden didn't run in 2016 because he was sad about Beau's death.  And I remember that, because a lot of us really wanted him to run because we knew Hillary was a flawed candidate.  Fatally so, as it turned out.  And when the country needed Joe to step in and run in 2016, he took a pass.

So don't tell me know that he was "pushed aside."  That's bullshit.

And between that lie and the lies that Biden's people have been telling all of us for the past however-long about Biden's supposed continued mental acuity and the lies that anybody who even asked a question about it was guilty of "ageism," . . . you know--I just don't really trust these people anymore.  And I think they ought to all leave the White House with a sense of embarrassment.

Yeah I remember there being a bit of a "will he or won't he" speculation in political circles and he has said himself on several occasions that he did not feel ready or able to mount a successful campaign. A bit of irony really given the relative lack of self awareness now.

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Posted (edited)

I'm on board with someone more energetic pushing back against these assholes. Let's get it done this weekend and push forward. It has to be Kamala for a number of reasons, and even if she isn't the first choice for some, every dem needs to agree to publicly bet behind her or to shut the fuck up.

Edited by 'stache
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Posted
4 minutes ago, troph said:

Maybe its PTSD from HRC and post-Obama backlash, but god I hope we don't run into a racist/sexist anti-Harris buzz saw (among suburban white women and others) in swing states. The number of women who might vote for a man (Dem) but will simply say a woman (per se) isn't qualified to be POTUS might shock us all.

Why would anyone expect anything else? We’re fucked

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Posted
5 minutes ago, troph said:

but god I hope we don't run into a racist/sexist anti-Harris buzz saw (among suburban white women and others) in swing states. The number of women who might vote for a man (Dem) but will simply say a woman (per se) isn't qualified to be POTUS might shock us all.

It wouldn't shock me.  Not even a little bit.  A surprising percentage of women are really, really, really shitty in that respect.

And, Kamala at the top of the ticket will also drive up turnout among piece of shit white male voters who are racist and misogynist (so, the Trump base). If their turnout increases even 1-2%, then that may be enough to seal the deal.

Posted
Just now, Horn Dog said:

IMG_7074.gif.0586e5c7bab884fa7c024f18ee0b141a.gif

Fuck that, he needs to be on the campaign trail, less visible than Kamala, but doing the "good" Biden interviews and supporting her 100%. COVID is a perfect way to gracefully bow out as the candidate if that's where this is headed. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, 'stache said:

Fuck that, he needs to be on the campaign trail, less visible than Kamala, but doing the "good" Biden interviews and supporting her 100%. COVID is a perfect way to gracefully bow out as the candidate if that's where this is headed. 

Fully drugged

Posted
48 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Those of you saying a brokered convention would be better than Harris absolutely do not understand politics and are going to drive me to drink an unhealthy amount of alcohol.

I don't know how anyone could bemoan the Democratic Party's handling of this entire saga and expect a brokered convention to be anything but an enormous mess at the same time.

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Posted
1 minute ago, 'stache said:

Fuck that, he needs to be on the campaign trail, less visible than Kamala, but doing the "good" Biden interviews and supporting her 100%. COVID is a perfect way to gracefully bow out as the candidate if that's where this is headed. 

Yeah, stick him in the Blue Wall states to campaign for/with her. Her, Barack, Michelle, Joe. Just win those 3 and we are golden. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It wouldn't shock me.  Not even a little bit.  A surprising percentage of women are really, really, really shitty in that respect.

And, Kamala at the top of the ticket will also drive up turnout among piece of shit white male voters who are racist and misogynist (so, the Trump base). If their turnout increases even 1-2%, then that may be enough to seal the deal.

I'm fine with moving on but this is why I thought (I'm moving on so past tense) Biden as a senile old guy was still the better candidate and why I was so fucking mad about how the last 2 weeks played out.

2 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I don't know how anyone could bemoan the Democratic Party's handling of this entire saga and expect a brokered convention to be anything but an enormous mess at the same time.

it already is a mess.

Posted
4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It wouldn't shock me.  Not even a little bit.  A surprising percentage of women are really, really, really shitty in that respect.

And, Kamala at the top of the ticket will also drive up turnout among piece of shit white male voters who are racist and misogynist (so, the Trump base). If their turnout increases even 1-2%, then that may be enough to seal the deal.

And ditching Biden for a younger candidate can increase youth and minority turnout. We know you’ll find an issue with every candidate and tell us how MAGA will increase turnout bc it’s a woman/gay/Jew/minority, Eeyore

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

And ditching Biden for a younger candidate can increase youth and minority turnout. We know you’ll find an issue with every candidate and tell us how MAGA will increase turnout bc it’s a woman/gay/Jew/minority, Eeyore

that's the bet, let's hope it works out. just because I'm super concerned and worried about asshat white women doesn't mean I'm not game. let's go.

Edited by troph
Posted

1968 called.

They want their presidential race back.

Assassination attempt?

A Republican candidate for Pres that lost their previous races?

An incumbent drops out.

A brokered Democratic convention in Chicago?!

The simulation is getting lazy.

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Posted
13 minutes ago, troph said:

no doubt she's a fantastic orator and debater, one of the best in a long while, but we knew that from her primary run in 2020. Maybe its PTSD from HRC and post-Obama backlash, but god I hope we don't run into a racist/sexist anti-Harris buzz saw (among suburban white women and others) in swing states. The number of women who might vote for a man (Dem) but will simply say a woman (per se) isn't qualified to be POTUS might shock us all.

But if she's POTUS already? That's why Biden should just step down. Make her POTUS so it's not a foreign concept to have a woman president. 

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Posted
Just now, troph said:

that's the bet, let's hope it works out. just because I'm not super concerned and worried about asshat white women doesn't mean I'm not game. let's go.

At this point, the campaign on the Dem side needs a big shot of excitement and enthusiasm. This is the chance. 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It wouldn't shock me.  Not even a little bit.  A surprising percentage of women are really, really, really shitty in that respect.

And, Kamala at the top of the ticket will also drive up turnout among piece of shit white male voters who are racist and misogynist (so, the Trump base). If their turnout increases even 1-2%, then that may be enough to seal the deal.

Also, just like there will be a lot of silent dem votes from women because of the abortion issue, there will now be a lot of silent trump votes because of race.    

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Posted
It wouldn't shock me.  Not even a little bit.  A surprising percentage of women are really, really, really shitty in that respect.
And, Kamala at the top of the ticket will also drive up turnout among piece of shit white male voters who are racist and misogynist (so, the Trump base). If their turnout increases even 1-2%, then that may be enough to seal the deal.

This is what I’ve been saying. There are anti-Trump voters that have come out willing to vote Biden. I think Harris makes those same people stay home.
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Posted
Just now, Js1 said:

And ditching Biden for a younger candidate can increase youth and minority turnout. We know you’ll find an issue with every candidate and tell us how MAGA will increase turnout bc it’s a woman/gay/Jew/minority, Eeyore

There's a legitimate argument to be made that Kamala Harris is a net negative in the blue wall states as things currently stand, and her success would rest on getting a decisive victory among those currently undecided/considering not voting/parking protest votes with West or Stein, and that doing so as a quasi-incumbent would be difficult.

Her odds are still long, but there's at least upside. It is really hard to imagine undecides breaking for Biden in a meaningful way at this point.

Posted
1 minute ago, Mo Horn said:

 

well there's your open air, brokered convention for everyone to see. it's like the neighbors who fight with their windows open and everyone hears and they act like nothing happened. jesus fucking christ.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, 6th Street said:

Who is this rando

Halperin is not a rando but he went from mainstream news to Newsmax. So take that with a grain of salt

He co-wrote Game Changer about the 2008 election and Palin

Edited by Js1
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

 

This would be such a fucking mess.

Biden should absolutely not resign though. It is dumb to even float that.

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Posted
Just now, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Not resigning and not endorsing isn’t ideal imo.  Have to look like a well oiled machine. This already looks like chaos.  An open convention will further that. 

Agreed. What’s the point of a vice president then? 

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Posted
1 minute ago, gmr548 said:

There's a legitimate argument to be made that Kamala Harris is a net negative in the blue wall states as things currently stand, and her success would rest on getting a decisive victory among those currently undecided/considering not voting/parking protest votes with West or Stein, and that doing so as a quasi-incumbent would be difficult.

Her odds are still long, but there's at least upside. It is really hard to imagine undecides breaking for Biden in a meaningful way at this point.

I think we vastly downplay the anti-trump vote causing undecideds to vote Biden. When push comes to shove the net negative for trump will carry the day for many. Will those same moderates vote for Harris, I honestly don't know. What we do know is black women carried HRC and suburban white women ate HRC alive. I would expect that to hold true for Harris as well.

 

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Halperin is not a rando but he went from mainstream news to Newsmax. So take that with a grain of salt

 

let's hope he has bad info.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, troph said:

well there's your open air, brokered convention for everyone to see. it's like the neighbors who fight with their windows open and everyone hears and they act like nothing happened. jesus fucking christ.

Yeah, this is going to be like the West Wing, with Obama trying to play Bartlet trying to get the candidates to be adults with a nomination up for grabs.  Good luck, but maybe he'll be able to convince them that once mud starts getting slung, the nomination will be meaningless.  

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Posted
Just now, Gap03 said:

Yeah, this is going to be like the West Wing, with Obama trying to play Bartlet trying to get the candidates to be adults with a nomination up for grabs.  Good luck, but maybe he'll be able to convince them that once mud starts getting slung, the nomination will be meaningless.  

Obama and Bill need to play elder statesman and get everyone on board with Harris. A month is not long enough for an open convention. Dem warfare. Dems in disarray. Every chuckle fuck will throw their name in 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Not resigning and not endorsing isn’t ideal imo.  Have to look like a well oiled machine. This already looks like chaos.  An open convention will further that. 

Don’t compare it to the almighty, compare it to the alternative?



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