Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[HamsterHookah 112]

3 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Visually it’s so, as the kids say, mid. Performance wise…ok, sure. But when I see a Tesla, I automatically assume they are a massive douche.

Model 3's are all over the highschool parking lots of my kids school now, which shows they've gone mainstream. That, and most people I see driving them are of Indian/Asian descent, so they must still be saying something in those communities of West Plano and Katy.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Model 3's are all over the highschool parking lots of my kids school now, which shows they've gone mainstream. That, and most people I see driving them are of Indian/Asian descent, so they must still be saying something in those communities of West Plano and Katy.

Desi people are hilarious. No offense to our resident desi folks, but they do love perceived status symbols, but hate spending money. Such as, buying a large house in Fulshear but not buying any furniture for it.

[HamsterHookah 112]

21 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

As a comparison to Elon running Tesla as a modern tech company versus a legacy/union auto company:

I have a friend retiring this year after 29 years at Toyota. A mutual who works at GM said, "just wait until your 30th year and they have to buy you out" to which the response was, "Toyota isn't unionized like that, so it doesn't matter."

Musk running Tesla like a modern tech company (anti-union, capitalistic/meritocratic) means there isn't a ton of bloat to carry on the balance sheet, I guess, which helps. Even my Toyota friend gets healthcare for life in retirement, among other pension/retirement benefits.

I have another friend who works at Peterbilt who is in a union and gets paid more than most people posting on this thread after 25 years, and he acknowledges he's overpaid as he turns about 12 screws, on anywhere from 60-70 units a day. It's kind of a grift, it seems.

@Bozo_CasanovaMaybe this is yet another example of a legacy automaker trying to get the dead money off their books with those guys who turn a few screws yet cost a ton in pay and benefits (implied by starting the buy-outs at 15 year seniority) a la trying to correct a bad deal:

Quote

Automaker Stellantis — owner of Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge and Ram — is looking to streamline and cut costs by offering voluntary buyouts to 33,500 U.S. hourly and salaried workers, as well as some employees in Canada. Exit offers were made to salaried workers with at least 15 years of service, and Stellantis wants to trim its hourly workforce by 3,500, according to a union representing workers at a plant in suburban Detroit. Stellantis' North American COO said the company needs to prioritize efficiency in the face of "fierce" competition to transition to electric vehicles.

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[HenryJames 64901]

2 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Desi people are hilarious. No offense to our resident desi folks, but they do love perceived status symbols, but hate spending money. Such as, buying a large house in Fulshear but not buying any furniture for it.

Tesla needs to make a minivan.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Tesla needs to make a minivan.

That might work. One of my Indian colleague’s wife was graduating from UH years back, so a lot of family was going to be in town. He needed a vehicle to take everyone to the graduation, but renting a van was too expensive in his mind. Solution: rent a a cargo van from U-haul.

[choripan 770]

3 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I understand why people buy the model S. It's one of a kind offering. It's a mass-affluent supercar with daily driver utility. There's nothing else in that category.  
 

I couldn't disagree more. It is a dragstrip car, akin to a Dodge Demon, and *nothing* like a supercar. IOW, it can go fast in a brief straight line, but is a goddamned dog on a track. So it's a dragster with dated styling and cool tech. The specialist. The kicker or punter of the car world.

Not intending to call you out specifically, btw. It's a common enough misconception that it's become a pet peeve for me.

[choripan 770]

For example, the Porsche Cayenne turbo -- which is an SUV(!) -- is comparable to the Model S Plaid(!) around what's often considered the world's benchmark track, at around 7mins, 35 seconds.

True supercars can cut about 30 seconds off that, which is a LOT, and get down around 7mins flat.

The point is, this annoys me because it's a good example of how much of a salesman/huckster that Elon is.

Edited April 27, 2023 by choripan

[atomheartbevo 88750]

47 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Tesla needs to make a minivan.

That would be brilliant, as a lot of people in the cities do just need something to move the kids/family around to school, soccer, etc.

Because it's a brilliant decision, Tesla wouldn't do it.  They'd rather do their shitty-looking "truck" that looks like it came out of a 1970s Roger Corman movie.

A Tesla minivan would end up looking like this, but could only haul 4 people (Yes, I know that's a Jack Smight movie and not a Corman movie)

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Tesla needs to make a minivan.

Meet the cybervan

[BrickHorn 17983]

3 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Tesla needs to make a minivan.

They already make a riding floor waxer.

[Celery Man 20535]

I think he’d pivot for the van

shoots pizzas but the stack is constantly busted

[atomheartbevo 88750]

46 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Meet the cybervan

 

[atomheartbevo 88750]

Wait, I found the Tesla CyberVan. It’s as practical as the Cybertruck.  Even seats 8.

[Pescado_Rojo 19192]

3 hours ago, choripan said:

I couldn't disagree more. It is a dragstrip car, akin to a Dodge Demon, and *nothing* like a supercar. IOW, it can go fast in a brief straight line, but is a goddamned dog on a track. So it's a dragster with dated styling and cool tech. The specialist. The kicker or punter of the car world.

Not intending to call you out specifically, btw. It's a common enough misconception that it's become a pet peeve for me.

Saleen tried to sell a Model S with upgraded brakes and suspension, but I don't think they sold many. It hasn't been updated on their website since 2020.

[atomheartbevo 88750]

30 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

It hasn't been updated on their website since 2020.

Well, to be fair, the Model S hasn't been updated since 2020 either.

[Bozo_Casanova 25501]

5 hours ago, choripan said:

I couldn't disagree more. It is a dragstrip car, akin to a Dodge Demon, and *nothing* like a supercar. IOW, it can go fast in a brief straight line, but is a goddamned dog on a track. So it's a dragster with dated styling and cool tech. The specialist. The kicker or punter of the car world.

Not intending to call you out specifically, btw. It's a common enough misconception that it's become a pet peeve for me.

 

5 hours ago, choripan said:

For example, the Porsche Cayenne turbo -- which is an SUV(!) -- is comparable to the Model S Plaid(!) around what's often considered the world's benchmark track, at around 7mins, 35 seconds.

True supercars can cut about 30 seconds off that, which is a LOT, and get down around 7mins flat.

The point is, this annoys me because it's a good example of how much of a salesman/huckster that Elon is.

And a ‘good day’ to you too, sir

I stand by it for three reasons

1) in the hands of the average driver, the Model S is capable of higher performance driving in real world driving conditions than any “true” supercar

2) no “true” supercar can or should be driven everyday in normal driving conditions 

 

I wouldn’t buy one, but I get it

Edited April 28, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[texasdago 7376]

Teslas are the automotive version of a soft-on

[choripan 770]

31 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 

And a ‘good day’ to you too, sir

I stand by it for three reasons

1) in the hands of the average driver, the Model S is capable of higher performance driving in real world driving conditions than any “true” supercar

2) no “true” supercar can or should be driven everyday in normal driving conditions 

 

I wouldn’t buy one, but I get it

What is the 3rd reason?!?!? If I weren't so lazy, I'd insert the "well, we're waiting" meme here.

Anyway, point is that the Model S isn't and shouldn't properly be called a supercar or compared to one. Call it a fast sedan. Compare it to an M5 or Caddy CT5-V or whatever. Or better, an F-150 Lightning or one of these other electric torque monsters like the Model S.  But not a supercar. 

[royiv 9043]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Well, to be fair, the Model S hasn't been updated since 2020 either.

The body really hasn't been updated since 2012. It's ancient at this point.

[Brian Fantana 6589]

41 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

1) in the hands of the average driver, the Model S is capable of higher performance driving in real world driving conditions than any “true” supercar

2) no “true” supercar can or should be driven everyday in normal driving conditions 

It is superior to most, yes MOST, not all, in a straight line from a dead stop with a full charge. I wouldn't make the claim that it beats literally any other performance metric when compared to other supercars. There's just an absolute 0% chance it handles or brakes better, even under normal conditions, than a Taycan for example.

 

[AeroHorn 730]

9 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Desi people are hilarious. No offense to our resident desi folks, but they do love perceived status symbols, but hate spending money. Such as, buying a large house in Fulshear but not buying any furniture for it.

As a desi, I can say that we, as a general rule, look for value that lasts. A house is good investment, especially a nice one that one can live in as opposed to a stock brokerage account. I agree that quite a few like to humblebrag a lot and a house is a nice way to do it. The best humblebrag is for desis is, of course, where their kids go to school and their majors.

Regarding Teslas, I have an old BMW i3 and looking for an EV. I overanalyze all my big purchases and I am hard pressed to find a better deal than Model 3 and Model Y in 40k-50k range. My next choice, Mach E, is selling at high 40s for the base trim. I found a 2018 Model S 100D with 70k miles at low 40s and I am so tempted to get it.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

18 minutes ago, AeroHorn said:

As a desi, I can say that we, as a general rule, look for value that lasts. A house is good investment, especially a nice one that one can live in as opposed to a stock brokerage account. I agree that quite a few like to humblebrag a lot and a house is a nice way to do it. The best humblebrag is for desis is, of course, where their kids go to school and their majors.

Regarding Teslas, I have an old BMW i3 and looking for an EV. I overanalyze all my big purchases and I am hard pressed to find a better deal than Model 3 and Model Y in 40k-50k range. My next choice, Mach E, is selling at high 40s for the base trim. I found a 2018 Model S 100D with 70k miles at low 40s and I am so tempted to get it.

Wait 6 months for 3 more Tesla price cuts

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

23 minutes ago, AeroHorn said:

As a desi, I can say that we, as a general rule, look for value that lasts. A house is good investment, especially a nice one that one can live in as opposed to a stock brokerage account. I agree that quite a few like to humblebrag a lot and a house is a nice way to do it. The best humblebrag is for desis is, of course, where their kids go to school and their majors.

Regarding Teslas, I have an old BMW i3 and looking for an EV. I overanalyze all my big purchases and I am hard pressed to find a better deal than Model 3 and Model Y in 40k-50k range. My next choice, Mach E, is selling at high 40s for the base trim. I found a 2018 Model S 100D with 70k miles at low 40s and I am so tempted to get it.

Y’all also like to brag about how cheap your haircut is.  $3 is like y’all’s 5 minute mile. 

[AeroHorn 730]

16 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Y’all also like to brag about how cheap your haircut is.  $3 is like y’all’s 5 minute mile. 

🙂 Hey, where can I get in on that action? That's just outstanding. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

33 minutes ago, AeroHorn said:

🙂 Hey, where can I get in on that action? That's just outstanding. 

Right next to the Patel Bros. grocery store, of course.

[956 Worldwide 33957]

4 hours ago, AeroHorn said:

As a desi, I can say that we, as a general rule, look for value that lasts. A house is good investment, especially a nice one that one can live in as opposed to a stock brokerage account. I agree that quite a few like to humblebrag a lot and a house is a nice way to do it. The best humblebrag is for desis is, of course, where their kids go to school and their majors.

Regarding Teslas, I have an old BMW i3 and looking for an EV. I overanalyze all my big purchases and I am hard pressed to find a better deal than Model 3 and Model Y in 40k-50k range. My next choice, Mach E, is selling at high 40s for the base trim. I found a 2018 Model S 100D with 70k miles at low 40s and I am so tempted to get it.

I’m not in the market for an EV but I keep up with the reviews and Hyundai’s offering (Ioniq 5 and 6) are in that range and almost uniformly whip the Teslas.  Any reason why it’s not on your list? 

[956 Worldwide 33957]

A judge is getting ready to make Elon testify in a lawsuit related to Tesla’s autopilot and a death that happened while it was in use. His team argued he shouldn’t have to testify because his public statements about Autopilot “may have been deepfakes.” (Judge did not buy it.)
 

https://www.thedrive.com/news/tesla-lawyers-claim-musks-autopilot-promises-could-be-deepfakes-judge-doesnt-buy-it

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

On 4/26/2023 at 4:23 PM, Guadaloopy said:

He annoys the shit out of me, but I fucking love my car.  And I've never loved any car.

That last part is low key very sad, which makes the first part somehow even sadder.  

[atomheartbevo 88750]

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

His team argued he shouldn’t have to testify because his public statements about Autopilot “may have been deepfakes.” (Judge did not buy it.)

The only people who bought it were his fanboys, which is why he said it.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

Sooooo….anyone got a bluesky invite? (asking for myself)

[Captainant 26861]

9 hours ago, AeroHorn said:

My next choice, Mach E, is selling at high 40s for the base trim. I found a 2018 Model S 100D with 70k miles at low 40s and I am so tempted to get it.

That 5 year old Model S with 70k miles better have a new battery pack otherwise you're paying $40k for a heavily worn battery with a shitton of charge cycles on its cells

[Guadaloopy 10757]

43 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That 5 year old Model S with 70k miles better have a new battery pack otherwise you're paying $40k for a heavily worn battery with a shitton of charge cycles on its cells

It's still got 3 years of warranty on the battery and we have already have data on Model S's that have been on the road for a decade.  They are showing battery degradation of 6-13% after ten years of use, which is lower than expected.  Not to mention that a 5 yr old Model S has better battery technology than those cars.   

[Guadaloopy 10757]

2 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

That last part is low key very sad, which makes the first part somehow even sadder.  

[Captainant 26861]

9 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

It's still got 3 years of warranty on the battery and we have already have data on Model S's that have been on the road for a decade.  They are showing battery degradation of 6-13% after ten years of use, which is lower than expected.  Not to mention that a 5 yr old Model S has better battery technology than those cars.   

Nice, that's awesome to hear. I finish paying off my dino burner in a couple months so I'm probably not going to be looking for a new car for a long time, but it sounds like battery tech is gonna be much more matured by then

[Bozo_Casanova 25501]

11 hours ago, choripan said:

What is the 3rd reason?!?!?

Your mom

11 hours ago, choripan said:

Anyway, point is that the Model S isn't and shouldn't properly be called a supercar or compared to one. Call it a fast sedan. Compare it to an M5 or Caddy CT5-V or whatever. Or better, an F-150 Lightning or one of these other electric torque monsters like the Model S.  But not a supercar. 

So it's quicker than almost everything and an unmodified, stock Model S Plaid did a 7:35 at the Nurburgring, but sure. Not a supercar, because feelings. 
 

[choripan 770]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Your mom

So it's quicker than almost everything and an unmodified, stock Model S Plaid did a 7:35 at the Nurburgring, but sure. Not a supercar, because feelings. 
 

I thought you were being sarcastic or silly in your last post. I've demonstrated that (1) they're not the same category of vehicle in terms of simply slotting/categorizing them (weight, purpose, function, etc.); and (2) the performance isn't comparable to today's supercars for what, you know, supercars do.

If you have a Tesla and calling it "basically a supercar" IRL helps you get laid or boosts your self-esteem, cool for you. It's simply not a true statement, unless you stretch the statement to it's breaking point and then some.

If you want the last word, have at it. It's tough to argue with "your mom," which is up there with "because I said so" or "nuh-uh."

[texasdago 7376]

Meanwhile on Reddit:

Comments are a gold mine.

Also, found a review of a Tesla S from an auto blog... I love how the tester car of this super duper Tesla was built by someone who apparently was having a sneezing attack... 

 

Wear on the "steering wheel" after 19,000 miles...

 

I'll admit I've only been in a Tesla once and I hated the interior.  Bland city.  Looks like the model S is no different.

[Brian Fantana 6589]

I love the smell of free speech

[Chopper 15889]

1 hour ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Sooooo….anyone got a bluesky invite? (asking for myself)

I put in a request too. Just a week or two ago. But still waiting. I've read it's the "most twitter-like" of the competition, but also their terms of use are a bit onerous...as in,you grant jack dorsey full privilege to use your name and photos as provided to bluesky, along with everything you've ever published there, in perpetuity, type of onerous.

[Bozo_Casanova 25501]

20 minutes ago, choripan said:

I thought you were being sarcastic or silly in your last post.

Sir, this is a place for Serious Business. You beclown yourself with such talk. 
 

 

20 minutes ago, choripan said:

I've demonstrated that (1) they're not the same category of vehicle in terms of simply slotting/categorizing them (weight, purpose, function, etc.); and (2) the performance isn't comparable to today's supercars for what, you know, supercars do.

But you've demonstrated nothing of the sort. Look Teslas have all kinds of issues (esp the quality problems above), but as I said they are in, and created, what is currently a category of one - the daily driver supercar. Faster to 100 than a Koenisgegg Agera, can also reliably take you back and forth to work 5 days a week for the next 7-8 years.
As for performance and what supercars do, track instructors in a Mazda 2 can torch a novice in a GT3, but not in a straight line. Outside of a handful of very elite drivers the potential performance of traditional supercars and hypercars is less accessible in real world conditions than what they can achieve in a Model S, outside of turn heads and attract gold diggers, which leads me to 
 

20 minutes ago, choripan said:

If you have a Tesla and calling it "basically a supercar" IRL helps you get laid or boosts your self-esteem, cool for you. It's simply not a true statement, unless you stretch the statement to it's breaking point and then some.

I don't and wouldn't have one, but this has a protest too much quality. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[Captain Ron 12691]

On 4/26/2023 at 5:23 PM, Guadaloopy said:

He annoys the shit out of me, but I fucking love my car.  And I've never loved any car.

How do you have sex with your car when it doesn't have a tailpipe?

[Pig Bellmont 8637]

5 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

How do you have sex with your car when it doesn't have a tailpipe?

Anything is a dildo if you’re brave enough. 

[Guadaloopy 10757]

4 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

How do you have sex with your car when it doesn't have a tailpipe?

[Bozo_Casanova 25501]

6 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Anything is a dildo if you’re brave enough. 

never gets old

[Captain Ron 12691]

2 hours ago, Chopper said:

I put in a request too. Just a week or two ago. But still waiting. I've read it's the "most twitter-like" of the competition, but also their terms of use are a bit onerous...as in,you grant jack dorsey full privilege to use your name and photos as provided to bluesky, along with everything you've ever published there, in perpetuity, type of onerous.

In other words - on par with Facebook/meta.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

11 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

In other words - on par with Facebook/meta.

It’s funny.  The two guys who run Twitter and Facebook are the answers to the question “Who’s a worse idea than Jack Dorsey for running a social network?”

[Captain Ron 12691]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Look Teslas have all kinds of issues (esp the quality problems above), but as I said they are in, and created, what is currently a category of one - the daily driver supercar. 

Others might disagree

https://low-offset.com/guides/best-daily-driver-supercar/

[Bozo_Casanova 25501]

49 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

Others might disagree

https://low-offset.com/guides/best-daily-driver-supercar/

Careful, when @choripan sees a Mustang Mach 1 on a list of supercars he may stroke out.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Bozo_Casanova

[Pescado_Rojo 19192]

That list had a couple supercars and a lot of sports cars. 

[Bozo_Casanova 25501]

Just now, Pescado_Rojo said:

That list had a couple supercars and a lot of sports cars. 

and a couple of real pieces of shit with good brand names and lovely lines.