Jay Hartzell is not out standard

[pantone159 712]

37 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Have you never been arrested by a cop trying to make a point?

Does being arrested by a cop trying to smoke a joint count?

 

[Captainant 27250]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

Pretty rich for the guy calling this fascism....please define fascism and let me know if you think it still think it applies here.,

You clearly haven't read or clicked through the DT thread, but asked and answered as far as what I tend to use

Umberto Eco kinda fuckin nailed it, IMO

[miguelito 11168]

If we're talking about standards, can we fix the typo in the thread title?

[Dahobbs 17407]

8 minutes ago, miguelito said:

If we're talking about standards, can we fix the typo in the thread title?

Typos are a surly standard

[jimmyjazz 45428]

7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Typos are a surly standard

*Tpyos

[pyrohornIII 4783]

So stupid question amnesty, but why is all of this falling on Hartzell and nothing on the Chancellor?   I was just ruminating on how McRaven would have reacted to all this.

[YGIFS 19447]

Neither Powers nor McRaven ever had any issue standing up to the Governor or Board of Regents.  But there was a mutual respect, even a detente or sorts.  

That's why this is so strange to me.  Eltife and Longoria have been incredibly meddlesome foot soldiers for Abbott the last couple of years (we've see how it's unfolded).  But Jay still has some spine in him and some political capital with which to check the cards.  But he folded almost immediately.  And Milliken and almost the entirety of his System staff have been stone cold silent.  Say what you want about the stupidity of the A&M Chancellor/System, when anything big happens...they are out in front of the media.  They have idiotic takes, but at least they're communicating.  UT System is just holding its dick, looking at the tower, like that monkey puppet meme "Uhhh, good luck with all that..."  

[Huckleberry 32660]

2 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Maybe.  I'm certainly open to the possibility, but it really feels like a lot of ado about nothing.   

But come on...I threw out a couple dozen as a number off the top of my head as filler...almost said a few dozen.  Either way, out of the number of people there that isn't a ton....and as you said all charges were dropped.

Have you never been arrested by a cop trying to make a point?  I've been arrested several times (by several I mean 5-6) on bogus charges...most of which came while I was a student at UT, I get it, I just think it's a big nothing burger.  

"You guys shouldn't worry about this extreme violation of citizens' rights because cops have been violating citizens' rights for decades" isn't the big brain argument you think it is. 

[DixonHur 11017]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

"You guys shouldn't worry about this extreme violation of citizens' rights because cops have been violating citizens' rights for decades" isn't the big brain argument you think it is. 

See this is where you, and probably others, don't get me.  This isn't the big brain argument.  This is the "this is the way the world is" argument. 

My big brain argument is probably closer to yours, so call it submitting, or giving up, but through my study of history and philosophy, I've come to the conclusion that shit ain't gonna change so I prefer to work within the system, not against it.  

In my early 20's I was a pro America, pro Texas Navy man who genuinely thought I was saving the world and protecting democracy around the world.

Then from my late 20's to mid-40's I was an uber liberal who thought I was saving the world through love, peace and recycling.  Then Trump happened, and I realized this is all just tribal war, governments are organized crime, and I just don't have time for it anymore.

I have a lot of thoughts on how things should be, but unless there is a global disaster that wipes out all governments, I don't think any of them can be put into practice.

[Captainant 27250]

24 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

See this is where you, and probably others, don't get me.  This isn't the big brain argument.  This is the "this is the way the world is" argument. 

My big brain argument is probably closer to yours, so call it submitting, or giving up, but through my study of history and philosophy, I've come to the conclusion that shit ain't gonna change so I prefer to work within the system, not against it.  

In my early 20's I was a pro America, pro Texas Navy man who genuinely thought I was saving the world and protecting democracy around the world.

Then from my late 20's to mid-40's I was an uber liberal who thought I was saving the world through love, peace and recycling.  Then Trump happened, and I realized this is all just tribal war, governments are organized crime, and I just don't have time for it anymore.

I have a lot of thoughts on how things should be, but unless there is a global disaster that wipes out all governments, I don't think any of them can be put into practice.

JFC so you're a burnt out finance genXer nihilist. No wonder you don't give a shit about people's rights being taken away and think that protesting is pointless. 

Read a fucking history book. Jesus Christ. 

[DixonHur 11017]

Just now, Captainant said:

Read a fucking history book

I'd bet my entire life savings I've read more history books than you.  That's basically been my hobby since I was a kid, and I have a minor in anthropology.

[gmr548 16427]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

Jay still has some spine in him

[Captainant 27250]

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I'd bet my entire life savings I've read more history books than you.  That's basically been my hobby since I was a kid, and I have a minor in anthropology.

Then something has truly broken in you if your study of history says the best thing is to quietly comply with tyranny, since you think "protests serve little purpose but to annoy other people". History shows that societies move forward thanks to protests from the public seeking redress of their grievances against the State. 

[DixonHur 11017]

Just now, Captainant said:

Then something has truly broken in you if your study of history says the best thing is to quietly comply with tyranny, since you think "protests serve little purpose but to annoy other people". History shows that societies move forward thanks to protests from the public seeking redress of their grievances against the State. 

No offense, but you're being a drama queen or king.  Clearing South Mall is not Tyranny.  Have some fucking prospective.

[YGIFS 19447]

11 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

No offense, but you're being a drama queen or king.  Clearing South Mall is not Tyranny.  Have some fucking prospective.

You're right, the force posturing was not blatant Tyranny.  But it's how it all starts.  That's my issue with it.  I don't agree with their stance on Israel, but this is how it always begins.  You should know from your vast library of historical readings.  It's never just the one thing.  It has to start small, with academics, or the disabled, or the marginalized, or the different.  We turn on our brothers and sisters first to prove loyalty.  Then we go for the masses.  Been this way for thousands of years.  

Here's what's different and troubling to me, and i suspect to you as well.  Usually, this kind of thing is instigated by "a rebellion" of a sort.  Those trying to seize power, up-end an administration, start a new regime.  What's happening in Texas, and writ-large in the United States is a way of life that's been in power already.  For a long time.  And unlike the disruptive nature of a power grab by disregarded populations, this one is being conducted by cornered rats.  Rats with power and resources who are lashing out as they exit the building through the gift shop.  That is far, far more dangerous than a coup.  We are living through the last days of an extinct way of thinking, and it will get far, far uglier before the light breaks through.  

When you can get a smart and enlightened guy like Jay Hartzell to go along with your cruel ruse, more is lost than you know.  

Edited April 27 by YGIFS

[Degenerate Gardner 4075]

11 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

No offense, but you're being a drama queen or king.  Clearing South Mall is not Tyranny.  Have some fucking prospective.

Unlawfully arresting 57 peaceful protesters isn’t how the US is supposed to work. I won’t budge on that. 

[DixonHur 11017]

Just now, Degenerate Gardner said:

Unlawfully arresting 57 peaceful protesters isn’t how the US is supposed to work. I won’t budge on that. 

Ok, I can appreciate that.  Now, name the last time in American history that was true?

[DixonHur 11017]

Just now, YGIFS said:

You're right, the force posturing was not blatant Tyranny.  But it's how it all starts.  That's my issue with it.  I don't agree with their stance on Israel, but this is how it always begins.  You should know from your vast library of historical readings.  It's never just the one thing.  It has to start small, with academics, or the disabled, or the marginalized, or the different.  We turn on our brothers and sisters first to prove loyalty.  Then we go for the masses.  Been this way for thousands of years.  

Here's what's different and troubling to me, and i suspect to you as well.  Usually, this kind of thing is instigated by "a rebellion" of a sort.  Those trying to seize power, up-end an administration, start a new regime.  What's happening in Texas, and writ-large in the United States is a way of life that's been in power already.  For a long time.  And unlike the disruptive nature of a power grab by disregarded populations, this one is being conducted by cornered rats.  Rats with power and resources who are lashing out as they exit the building through the gift shop.  That is far, far more dangerous than a coup.  We are living through the last days of an extinct way of thinking, and it will get far, far uglier before the light breaks through.  

When you can get a smart and enlightened guy like Jay Hartzell to go along with your cruel ruse, more is lost than you know.  

Point taken, but balance is key.  Stay vigilant, but don't raise everything to Defcon 5.

And do something about it, other than protesting.  That's my biggest problem.  If you see a problem take active, measured steps to try to change it.  Raise your hand if you think UT is going to divest of weapons manufacturers because some students held up signs and chanted slogans?  

Wanna make a difference?  Go to school somewhere else.  I don't mean that in the sense of giving up, but rather speak with your dollars.  spend your tuition money at a school that aligns with your beliefs if you need to.  I have no issue with that.  But protesting...lame.

Bottom line, if you what change you need to change the bottom line.  

[Dahobbs 17407]

I don't understand not caring about civil rights. I don't understand the need to have a strong opinion despite demonstrated and admitted ignorance. I don't understand how any objective view of history, either US or global, could conclude the protests are unimportant and accomplish little.

I think @DixonHur's worldview is one born of exhaustion, ignorance, and laziness. I suppose I appreciate his efforts to explain it, but ultimately I'm mostly disgusted and disappointed. If you're that tired of living in the world, maybe just let the rest of us that do still care handle it. 

This is @Brisketexan and his ledge after he has lost all hope and the fire to at least go down fighting. 

 

[Dahobbs 17407]

12 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Ok, I can appreciate that.  Now, name the last time in American history that was true?

We may not always live up to our ideals, but they are not dead until we stop trying to fight for them. If everyone adopted your mentality, the US and the future would truly be gone. Maybe you'd care if you had kids that you'd want to grow up in it. 

[DixonHur 11017]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

I don't understand not caring about civil rights. I don't understand the need to have a strong opinion despite demonstrated and admitted ignorance. I don't understand how any objective view of history, either US or global, could conclude the protests are unimportant and accomplish little.

I think @DixonHur's worldview is one born of exhaustion, ignorance, and laziness. I suppose I appreciate his efforts to explain it, but ultimately I'm mostly disgusted and disappointed. If you're that tired of living in the world, maybe just let the rest of us that do still care handle it. 

This is @Brisketexan and his ledge after he has lost all hope and the fire to at least go down fighting. 

 

And I think it's based on weighing the options, reading the room and taking the path of least resistance.  

Life is too short to be made miserable by every perceived slight.

I bet all of us can go to the kitchen right now and get fresh drinking water from our taps.  That's better than 99% of the people in the world.  Relax and enjoy your fortune.  

[Dahobbs 17407]

Just now, DixonHur said:

And I think it's based on weighing the options, reading the room and taking the path of least resistance.  

Life is too short to be made miserable by every perceived slight.

I bet all of us can go to the kitchen right now and get fresh drinking water from our taps.  That's better than 99% of the people in the world.  Relax and enjoy your fortune.  

Maybe take your own advice. I'm sorry we annoyed you by daring to care. 

[Hermanator 6863]

5 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

dps was there before the ‘protestors’ 

 

abbott has his eyes on the white house and the money is lined up. Killing off Woke UT Austin into non woke, non dei UT Austin looks very very good to his backers 

There is no way Americans are voting a dude in a wheel chair into the white house. Not in this day of social media visibility.

[Hermanator 6863]

15 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Point taken, but balance is key.  Stay vigilant, but don't raise everything to Defcon 5.

DEFCON 1 is actually the highest level alert warning

[Ted Lange 15975]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

I'd bet my entire life savings I've read more history books than you.  That's basically been my hobby since I was a kid, and I have a minor in anthropology.

And listened to more Joe Rogan podcasts too.  Probably a big Bill Maher and Adam Carolla fan?   Do you have an associate degree from Prager U??

[Hermanator 6863]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

 and I just don't have time for it anymore.

So why are you reading this page on this site right now? Why go to the lengths to comment on it? 

If you don't care then show you don't care. Let the people that care have their space here to care. 

[safe sex 11628]

33 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Life is too short to be made miserable by every perceived slight.

This is privilege

[BevoAbyss 2046]

Friends, I slept so well last night.

As with many of you, this photo from Wednesday bothered me immensely. As did the events at UT. Not anymore!

Why?

Last night, I read the words of a very wise Surly poster. This poster reads history books for a hobby, minored in Anthropology, sailed the seas with the Navy ... and he has assured us all that Wednesday's police parade on the UT campus is no big deal. Just Hartzell making sure UT does not become Columbia in NYC.

In fact, this dude's knowledge of history is so deep and vast that he knows there are no definitions of fascism that fit what has been emerging in the US for at least 20 years ... accelerating the past 8 years... and bursting on to the UT campus. There are no historical descriptions anywhere of fascism that mirror GQP-MAGA, Trumpers, or Abbott and cronies. 

No need to look up "fascism" in Merriam-Webster or Oxford Dictionary or Encyclopedia Brittanica or Wikipedia.

Nope, nothing to worry about.  We can all sleep easy. America is in good hands. 

Nothing is changing in our world.

Edited April 27 by BevoAbyss

[Sawbonz 27296]

7 hours ago, DixonHur said:

I'd bet my entire life savings I've read more history books than you.  That's basically been my hobby since I was a kid, and I have a minor in anthropology.

So why are you being obtuse? Is it deliberate?

[Captainant 27250]

6 hours ago, DixonHur said:

I bet all of us can go to the kitchen right now and get fresh drinking water from our taps.  That's better than 99% of the people in the world.  Relax and enjoy your fortune

There's a pretty good chance that tap water is fucking riddled with PFAS/PFOS

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/04/16/texas-pfas-forever-chemicals-public-water-systems-epa-limit/

 

[Sawbonz 27296]

6 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Wanna make a difference?  Go to school somewhere else.

 

6 hours ago, DixonHur said:

taking the path of least resistance.  

Life is too short to be made miserable by every perceived slight.

 

Clearly I should have kept reading before asking that question 

[BrickHorn 18134]

6 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I think @DixonHur's worldview is one born of exhaustion, ignorance, and laziness. 

His opinion sucks and is provably wrong. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3103]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

There's a pretty good chance that tap water is fucking riddled with PFAS/PFOS

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/04/16/texas-pfas-forever-chemicals-public-water-systems-epa-limit/

 

[Sawbonz 27296]

6 hours ago, Hermanator said:

There is no way Americans are voting a dude in a wheel chair into the white house. Not in this day of social media visibility.

There’s no way Trump would pick one for a running mate

[bolverk 29261]

Change.org petition is going around for Hartzell to resign.

https://chng.it/RgN2B2K79d

[bolverk 29261]

Over 400 faculty have now signed the no confidence petition.

[jimmyjazz 45428]

He simply needs to resign.  I don't care who's next, do the right thing and fight the next battle tomorrow.

What a shitshow.  Utterly embarassing.

[Pancho 44181]

17 hours ago, DixonHur said:

 

Life is too short to be made miserable by every perceived slight.

 

Let me guess—White male?

 

[Captainant 27250]

This aged like milk lol

https://news.utexas.edu/2020/11/02/there-is-no-higher-education-without-free-speech/

 

[wildcat09 29146]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:45 PM, Huckleberry said:

"You guys shouldn't worry about this extreme violation of citizens' rights because cops have been violating citizens' rights for decades" isn't the big brain argument you think it is. 

I'm thinking that the guy who says "I'm totally a liberal but I don't see what the hubbub is with people being illegally arrested for exercising their 1st amendment rights is!" may not actually be a liberal.  

[immamac 42388]

After tempers have cooled, my opinion hasn’t changed. I think it’s clear to faculty and students that Hartzell is working for something else other than the academia and research side of the UT system. Maybe he needs another job, but his current role doesn’t fit. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

44 minutes ago, Captainant said:

This aged like milk lol

https://news.utexas.edu/2020/11/02/there-is-no-higher-education-without-free-speech/

 

I don't Twitter, but can people @ Jay Hartzell his own link to him? What's the best way to get some kind of hashtag started or to make him feel the social media heat?

[UnivTex34 1760]

On 4/27/2024 at 4:59 PM, bolverk said:

Over 400 faculty have now signed the no confidence petition.

Over 500 now. Only 3 from the McCombs.

[Captainant 27250]

2 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Over 500 now. Only 3 from the McCombs.

Fascists? IN MY BUSINESS CULTURE??

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

UNPOSSIBLE!

[YGIFS 19447]

Not excusing or endorsing anybody on the faculty here, but a major rationale for no confidence/confidence on the part of Hartzell from McCombs faculty isn't just political.  It's that he raised so much money for them as their REFIC head, then Dean, and now President.  New facilities, dozens of endowed chairs, and hundreds of scholarships.  Not saying that's good, bad, or indifferent.  It's just their financial reality.  Jay wouldn't revoke any of those obviously to add fuel to this fire, but they directly benefited from Jay's years of myriad leadership and that may help explain a bit why they're not joining in on this.  Not saying Fenves or Powers would have done the same.  But were this happening in a different era, I wouldn't be shocked if the Cockrell School faculty didn't go along en masse to condemn former Dean Fenves or the UT Law School faculty not condemning Powers.  Particularly in the throes of a Hartzell-led Capital Campaign that is campus wide, but will likely stand to benefit the business school more than any other CSU on campus (aside from athletics obviously).  

Not so fun fact that student groups and news outlets are gonna find out about between now and graduation.  Lots of parents and family members coming to DKR in 2 Saturdays.  Many probably with strong opinions one way or another on this.  Many also who don't even know this all happened on their child's campus.  But the current President always gives a speech and does intros, kinda the emcee.  It's at least a half-dozen visits to the podium.  That's gonna present a challenge given the hot tempers around all of this right now.  And USAF Maj. Gen. Jeannie Leavitt (Ret.) is the featured speaker.  She led a remarkable career as the first certified USAF female fighter pilot.  Served many bases, many Joint Chiefs, many Air Wing Groups, many missions, many Presidents.  I am fully in awe of her and she did what she was commanded to do for over 30 years at the highest levels of our Air Defenses.  Including joint training missions with the IAF.  I am all for free speech but I really fucking hope nobody makes a scene about her appearance on our campus (where she graduated Air Force ROTC and got the DAA jacket, BTW).  She has an impeccable service record, has nothing to do with what's going on in Gaza/Hamas/Iran right now, and is an incredible inspiration to all women and even young men considering Air Force service.  Please don't do anything stupid. 

[bolverk 29261]

33 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Over 500 now. Only 3 from the McCombs.

Happy to see my thesis chair signed.

[Huckleberry 32660]

47 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm thinking that the guy who says "I'm totally a liberal but I don't see what the hubbub is with people being illegally arrested for exercising their 1st amendment rights is!" may not actually be a liberal.  

I understand what you're saying but to me this is what actual small government conservatism should be completely against. 

Obviously in the current world conservatism has completely lost all meaning and I'm in a very lonely group holding on to what it should mean. Brain rot has created a world where "conservative" = big government authoritarianism lover.

[jimmyjazz 45428]

I'd be curious to see when people think conservatism veered away from small government, state's rights, individual freedoms, etc.

['stache 21729]

I get the basic premise that people in middle age often have families, kids, bills, etc., that makes being an activist unrealistic without risking income, family, and other obligations. That's always been true which is why I surmise a lot of these things start at college campuses with the youths who don't yet have all those obligations and concerns. I disagree entirely though that this was just a single incident, not tyranny, and not a big deal. We've been at Defcon 2 if not 1 for several years now with an entire political wing trying to erase any and all dissent, which is causing active harm to several groups, women, LGBTQ, racial and ethnic minorities, etc., are under assault at every turn. This issue is national news and Defcon 1 concern because literal nazis are being given far more first amendment rights than any cause that is more popular among liberals. It's deeply, deeply disturbing and to brush it off as "no big deal" and "stop overreacting" is just as concerning to me, because this is not normal. It's blatantly obvious to me this is part of a much bigger and much more problematic picture. 

Edit to add that I'm currently in the position described, I don't have the time or ability to actively protest without risking job security, especially on the Israel topic, and just don't have the time or energy to add it to the daily pressures of middle-aged life. But I've told my wife if it truly hits a tipping point, especially with my state's government seemingly threatening to shut down public schools or other extreme measures, we might just have to go for it, because the rest won't really matter. 

Edited April 29 by 'stache

[Hermanator 6863]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'd be curious to see when people think conservatism veered away from small government, state's rights, individual freedoms, etc.

In this US it's always meant small government (only applies to social benefits programs), state's rights (to have slavery and restrict personal rights), and individual freedoms (as long as it aligns with white Christian "values"). 

They just used to not say the parenthesis out loud.