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Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]


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Whoever is calling plays just doesn't have any understanding of situational offense strategy. 3rd and 2. We are at the Tulsa 40. We call a long sideline pass to Duvernay. Incomplete. We punt on 4th down.

3rd and 2, get the fucking first down. If you convert, then throw the deep pass on 1st and 10. If that ball is incomplete you still are only at 2nd down. How much confidence do you really have in Sam throwing that ball to Duvernay right there? If you really want to run that play (even though you shouldn't), Run it with CJ or LJH who can go up and make a play on the ball or get the PI.

The only reason you should run that play there is if you have it made up in your mind we are going for it on 4th and 2 from the 40. But we didn't. We punted.

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5 hours ago, Newy25 said:

I am not even in the camp of firing Herman. Firing him now is insanely idiotic. The premise of the theoretical coaching search is based on the season going the way we think it might be headed. Then the question is, do you consider replacing him this December? Or do you give him a chance to replace his staff?  I think context for making that decision is based on a number of things including a review of his process,  how badly the season goes, the competitive landscape and who is available. 

I would be in favor of making him replace his offensive staff and if we come in next year and it's still a shit sandwich, firing him earlier in the season. 

Nah, firing during the season really is a bad look and what does it accomplish.  Be proactive not reactive, start putting feelers out for interest.  Coaches aren't blind, they can see when something isn't working somewhere else.   Is it not working because the coach didn't have anything to work with (UCLA), the can't get buy-in from players, they took over a dumpster fire (FSU), because they have a shitty staff (hmm), or because they are just not a good coach?  

Buy in is a lot easier if you have built a reputation for winning, particularly an MNC just look to the east.   It's going to be harder if you are a relatively unknown commodity as HC.  

If I'm a really good HC and UT reaches out to me mid-season, I'm less concerned they are considering firing their coach after 2 years and much more concerned about the recruiting situation if I want the job.  Baggins is mopping up 2019 like Herman did in 18, and a coach on the hot seat has an uphill recruiting battle  

aggy is getting the 1st year bump this year and a new coach is going to have to deal with a transition class. They might pull of 9--3 this year if they can keep playing like Saturday, but with their schedule next year should be worse and the shine starts to wear off.  The way things are going we are looking to give them a second year boost by having a 2020 transition class ourselves if Herman gets cut loose at the end of year 3.  

If this shit doesn't turn around this year, hopefully doe diligence has been done, make the move and get full in on 2020 recruiting. 

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2 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Herman's offense sucks. We all see that. But he isn't going to let someone else take over that side if the ball. It is infuriating.

I don't think it's the overall idea of the scheme that's awful. I really like a power spread, or whatever the hell we're calling it, as a college offense. I don't think it will put up quite the crazy video game numbers of the Veer 'n Shoot, but it's much easier on the defense, and I think it's well-suited to the advantages we typically have in recruiting.

Our actual problems:
image.png

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15 minutes ago, Sheep Have Wool said:

I don't think it's the overall idea of the scheme that's awful. I really like a power spread, or whatever the hell we're calling it, as a college offense. I don't think it will put up quite the crazy video game numbers of the Veer 'n Shoot, but it's much easier on the defense, and I think it's well-suited to the advantages we typically have in recruiting.

Our actual problems:
image.png

This "non-shit football," it intrigues me.

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3 hours ago, Handcruser said:

The problem us CTH isn't going to let him run the offense. And that's a big problem.

Herman's offense sucks. We all see that. But he isn't going to let someone else take over that side if the ball. It is infuriating.

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And the defense allowed Tulsa to get back in the game. So they all need work.

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I don't think it's the overall idea of the scheme that's awful. I really like a power spread, or whatever the hell we're calling it, as a college offense. I don't think it will put up quite the crazy video game numbers of the Veer 'n Shoot, but it's much easier on the defense, and I think it's well-suited to the advantages we typically have in recruiting.
Our actual problems:
image.png
I'm not arguing scheme. I'm arguing Herman sucks at executing it and making adjustments and leading his staff on the offensive side of the ball

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1 hour ago, Sheep Have Wool said:

I don't think it's the overall idea of the scheme that's awful. I really like a power spread, or whatever the hell we're calling it, as a college offense. I don't think it will put up quite the crazy video game numbers of the Veer 'n Shoot, but it's much easier on the defense, and I think it's well-suited to the advantages we typically have in recruiting.

Our actual problems:
image.png

 

49 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This "non-shit football," it intrigues me.

He's sayin', you pound the fuckin' rock when it's second and goal from 36 inches out.

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I don't see Tom going anywhere after this season but man he has a tough road to hoe next year with us losing eight starters on defense, including our entire D-line and two of our three starting LBs.  Wonder if Tom will be granted more leniency than Strong if he goes 5-7 next season and how that will play out among fans and the media.  

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On 9/10/2018 at 4:19 PM, tbone_ said:

It’s funny to me that people are even discussing this. Ain’t gonna happen til year 3.

17 hours ago, SaucyJack said:

Let' em go.  They're on a roll.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSveni1MkTHGfNwgSZ8ED0

well you know, the Germans just might bomb Pearl Harbor after all, so we have to be ready early.

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8 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

It will be interesting to see the reaction if Herman goes 6-6 and 5-7 this year and next and is granted a fourth year while Charlie got the boot in spite of the fact that he was breaking in the veer and shoot in 2016.  Could be some real blowback from the media.  

If he goes 6-6 and 5-7 he is gone.  Nothing interesting about it other than who the next HC will be.  

Thats going to suck because 2020 is a good class in state and not one we want to be a transition class.  It would be much better if he either lights it up with a 10 win season next year or completely shits the bed and is let go this year.  

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Whoever is calling plays just doesn't have any understanding of situational offense strategy. 3rd and 2. We are at the Tulsa 40. We call a long sideline pass to Duvernay. Incomplete. We punt on 4th down.
3rd and 2, get the fucking first down. If you convert, then throw the deep pass on 1st and 10. If that ball is incomplete you still are only at 2nd down. How much confidence do you really have in Sam throwing that ball to Duvernay right there? If you really want to run that play (even though you shouldn't), Run it with CJ or LJH who can go up and make a play on the ball or get the PI.
The only reason you should run that play there is if you have it made up in your mind we are going for it on 4th and 2 from the 40. But we didn't. We punted.
At no point do you call a pass on that play, if you're up, as we were. You run the ball 2x if you're going for it.

Maybe they were being tricky.
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3 hours ago, Fozzz said:

It will be interesting to see the reaction if Herman goes 6-6 and 5-7 this year and next and is granted a fourth year while Charlie got the boot in spite of the fact that he was breaking in the veer and shoot in 2016.  Could be some real blowback from the media.  

Why would you speculate that Herman will get one more year than Charlie with the same record?  Jesus...racist much?

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3 hours ago, Snacks said:

At no point do you call a pass on that play, if you're up, as we were. You run the ball 2x if you're going for it.

Maybe they were being tricky.

This is the staff that threw it on 3rd and 2 up a score with 3 minutes to go against Tech, with a true freshman QB prone to making bad decisions.  They use a binder to decide whether to go for it on fourth.   

Edited by ClubWhatever
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33 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

If we are down in the first half by 14 is Herman still too stubborn to put Shane in is the question?

For whatever reason, Shane is on the shitlist.

Seems like  Tater Tom is going to pound square peg Sam into Round hole QB, no matter what the scoreboard or performance result is.

Tater Tom has nothing to lose, he will get year Three, unless he commits a felony, and laugh to the bank.

Thats the problem with current coach-biased upper P5 level contracts- all emotional based , anticipating future winning with no down

side to losers/posers.

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Against Tulsa, Sam was a 78% passer (21-27) with 2 TDs and no picks.
He also ran for 51 yards and another score, with 4.3 ypc. 

And for the second game in a row he was never sacked.

How much better you think Shane would be ffs?

 

Our problem isn't Sam. It isn't the offense. 
It's our defensive line and the fact that we are getting dominated up front and giving up way too many rushing yards - and also not getting a pass rush.
Teams are running on us and controlling the ball and then QBs have time to pick us apart in passing situations.

Edited by Disco Missile
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14 minutes ago, Disco Missile said:

Against Tulsa, Sam was a 78% passer (21-27) with 2 TDs and no picks.
He also ran for 51 yards and another score, with 4.3 ypc. 

And for the second game in a row he was never sacked.

How much better you think Shane would be ffs?

 

Our problem isn't Sam. It isn't the offense. 
It's our defensive line and the fact that we are getting dominated up front and giving up way too many rushing yards - and also not getting a pass rush.
Teams are running on us and controlling the ball and then QBs have time to pick us apart in passing situations.

Sam doesn’t hit receivers well, particularly in critical situations, lots of high , dangerous passes.

He is slow in decision making and his progressions, even though the OL has been much better in pass protection .

Agreed though that the defense has fucked our team both games more than the offense, but Orlando seems to

get a pass due to the searing hatred of Beck and Tater Tom’s stubbornness and perceived arrogance.

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Good points, Sam is not great, but he is far from our biggest problem on offense.  It's knee-jerk shit to blame him.  

Here's what some of you guys really need to fucking accept.  Texas high school football is not the savior you've been led to believe it is.  Nationwide recruiting with some guys from Texas is what is gonna win/has won national titles.  Neither your high school team back then (with you on it), nor as it stands right now...is anywhere near as awesome as you wish it would be.  

The championship landscape has passed Texas by.  Let's get ready for the next phase.  And by that, I mean let's show Coach Herman where to hunt Snipe

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27 minutes ago, Disco Missile said:

Against Tulsa, Sam was a 78% passer (21-27) with 2 TDs and no picks.
He also ran for 51 yards and another score, with 4.3 ypc. 

And for the second game in a row he was never sacked.

How much better you think Shane would be ffs?

 

Our problem isn't Sam. It isn't the offense. 
It's our defensive line and the fact that we are getting dominated up front and giving up way too many rushing yards - and also not getting a pass rush.
Teams are running on us and controlling the ball and then QBs have time to pick us apart in passing situations.

Our problem is most definitely the offense. The defense has been bad too. But the offense is terrible. Wait till we play some actual good teams. 

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7 minutes ago, El Squared said:

Sam doesn’t hit receivers well, particularly in critical situations, lots of high , dangerous passes.

He is slow in decision making and his progressions, even though the OL has been much better in pass protection .

Agreed though that the defense has fucked our team both games more than the offense, but Orlando seems to

get a pass due to the searing hatred of Beck and Tater Tom’s stubbornness and perceived arrogance.

I would give Orlando a partial pass because last years defense was good and 3/4 of his best players left early.  If he had those 3 juniors return this year, roach would be playing DE and we would have a damn good defense again.  But they didn't, and he doesn't, most of his best talent are probably freshmen   

On offense we should have a better squad all the way around from experience and/or talent at every position, yet it's not an improvement over last year.  I won't call it hatred on my part, disgust is more appropriate.  We have an "offensive mind" HC and our offense sucks balls 2 years running.  

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19 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Good points, Sam is not great, but he is far from our biggest problem on offense.  It's knee-jerk shit to blame him.  

Here's what some of you guys really need to fucking accept.  Texas high school football is not the savior you've been led to believe it is.  Nationwide recruiting with some guys from Texas is what is gonna win/has won national titles.  Neither your high school team back then (with you on it), nor as it stands right now...is anywhere near as awesome as you wish it would be.  

The championship landscape has passed Texas by.  Let's get ready for the next phase.  And by that, I mean let's show Coach Herman where to hunt Snipe

Any decent coach could win a lot with just Texas players.  The biggest problem in the last several years has been our DLine recruiting has been crap.  The only recent Dlinemen that might have sniffed the field in Mack's better years out of our recent teams is Poona.  We will never dominate again until they get better players on both lines.  And a lot of them from Texas we should be getting are ending up in the SEC. Our Dline hasnt scared any QBs or opposing teams for several years since Malcom Brown went pro.

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10 minutes ago, Handcruser said:

Wut?

 


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CDC gave Mack an office in Belmont with an open door to help mentor Herman.  Go listen to the pressers, tell me you don't hear more of Mack every week.  

Unfortunately he appears to be coaching him on how to deal with the press and public and nothing to do with actual football. 

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6 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

This is the staff that threw it on 3rd and 2 up a score with 3 minutes to go against Tech, with a true freshman QB prone to making bad decisions.  They use a binder to decide whether to go for it on fourth.   

An incomprehensible decision. Horrific decision making. I think it's called stage fright. They're in over their heads. Not ready for prime time. Boys trying to play a man's game.

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8 hours ago, Treefidy said:

CDC gave Mack an office in Belmont with an open door to help mentor Herman.  Go listen to the pressers, tell me you don't hear more of Mack every week.  

Unfortunately he appears to be coaching him on how to deal with the press and public and nothing to do with actual football. 

I'm not sure Mack knew all that much about actual football - he used to as an OC but it probably passed him buy (Greg D. Holla).
However, of course he was a great CEO and generally knew how to find guys who did and run the whole thing.
Until he got too full of himself and quit trying after 2009.

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14 hours ago, Treefidy said:

If he goes 6-6 and 5-7 he is gone.  Nothing interesting about it other than who the next HC will be.  

Thats going to suck because 2020 is a good class in state and not one we want to be a transition class.  It would be much better if he either lights it up with a 10 win season next year or completely shits the bed and is let go this year.  

I don't know if I would be so sure.  It may not even be the correct decision to fire him depending on the circumstances.  In retrospect, it may have been a bad idea to fire Charlie in spite of him going 5-7 and losing to Kansas.  By S&P+, the 2016 team was arguably the best team we have fielded since 2012, and there's a good chance it will be better in that regard than this year's team.

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9 hours ago, Treefidy said:

CDC gave Mack an office in Belmont with an open door to help mentor Herman.  Go listen to the pressers, tell me you don't hear more of Mack every week.  

Unfortunately he appears to be coaching him on how to deal with the press and public and nothing to do with actual football. 

Okay now the Monday presser is making more sense. Hermensa came across very subdued, almost like a little boy, in obvious contrast to his normal arrogant dickheadedness. When cowchip brown asked his response to many fans accusing him of being arrogant, he turned red as a beet and managed to stammer out "I love our fans" rather than his typical response which would be to petulantly explain how no one understands the utter brilliance of what he's up to.

This has Mack's fingerprints all over it, except rather than molding Hermensa into a smooth politician, he's just coming across like a total beta.

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10 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I don't know if I would be so sure.  It may not even be the correct decision to fire him depending on the circumstances.  In retrospect, it may have been a bad idea to fire Charlie in spite of him going 5-7 and losing to Kansas.  By S&P+, the 2016 team was arguably the best team we have fielded since 2012, and there's a good chance it will be better in that regard than this year's team.

Stop.

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