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Del Valle Man run over, shot and killed by 12 & 13 year olds trying to recover stolen car


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Posted

When I was in second or third grade our entire class was bused to the county jail for a tour.   After being carefully briefed, we were individually escorted to a cell, the door was slammed and locked and we were left alone for a few minutes to ponder what a few years would be like.  Seemed to have a good effect on me, but I imagine that it would now be considered child abuse.

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Posted
7 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

what is the real problem with a reform school environment until 18 and supervision until 22, all sealed as long as they grow up?

That's definitely more effective and humane than trying them as adults. At a minimum their guardians should no longer be trusted with the care of any other person, and they should be placed in the custody of someone who actually knows how to raise children. Mandatory therapy and medication for the stuff that can't be controlled.

Posted

Mexico has what many are expressing as a solution for minors.  Under 12, they are essentially unable to charge them with almost any crime.  12-18 is the age that they are sent to "correctional facilities".

This is why the cartels use them for their "sicarios" or other aspects such as lookouts, runners, etc.  They get caught and because of their age, there is little the state can do.  They do a minimal sentence, and they're back out on the streets.  Until they turn 18, there's not much the state can do and the cartels/gangs exploit this to the fullest.   

So fuck all that.  You do big boy shit, you can do the big boy time and face the consequences.  Coordinated car jacking, with a gun, and then murder when someone dares to try and keep their car from being stolen, checks that box.  

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Posted
11 minutes ago, AnTiM said:

When I was in second or third grade our entire class was bused to the county jail for a tour.   After being carefully briefed, we were individually escorted to a cell, the door was slammed and locked and we were left alone for a few minutes to ponder what a few years would be like.  Seemed to have a good effect on me, but I imagine that it would now be considered child abuse.

"Scared Straight" - isn't there a show about this?

Either way, my guess is that because this is a string of what seem to be coordinated car jackings, there are other people involved.  Jacking cars is about moving cars.  That takes coordination and infrastructure to an extent.  That screams gang activity.  With a pistol?  Recruit a couple of younger kids, if they get caught they can hide behind their age.  The gun moved things to another level - so my only concession would be to integrate sentencing with their ability to implicate the larger gang activity that is obviously recruiting these kids.  They still killed someone, so that means decades, not years of jail time, but if they could tie this back to organized crime, then it's worth having the conversation.  

Posted
4 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

I, too, was brought up knowing killing people is wrong. Except in war. Or in self defense. Or, to protect others.

As I got older, I learned the law allows for killing someone who is stealing your patio furniture at night. Made what used to be cut and dried more nebulous. Again, what motivates my comments is a concern for our society. I know nothing about these teens other than they are, and will always be, murderers. 

Well, and you weren't raised by wolves, either your actual parents, or your peers.

It is true that our juvenile system, a lot like the adult system, offers little rehabilitation and may likely actually be a crime school of sociopathy.  Even if true, that doesn't completely undermine the justification of a juvenile system that is less punitive than the adult system.

 

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Posted
5 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

Repped to offset the neg. 
 

People mature at differing speeds, so I see the value in both differentiating adults from juveniles, as well as evaluating juveniles as individuals. I have no sympathy for these teenage murderers, other than holding out hope our society will effort to rehabilitate fucked up juveniles. Wishful thinking.

 

They thought they had a reason, which was to save their own skin. If you think that reason isn’t one our country sometimes accepts as justification, you haven’t been paying attention. Parse this statement all you want, but frame your rebuttal within the mindset of someone who is not yet an adult, as our laws insist we do.

Living in a country which twice elected a president who has bragged about his ability to kill someone for no reason, without consequence, has diminished my ability to share the moral outrage I read in this thread. 

Your opinions about child murders changed because Trump was elected a second time? Get out of here with that weak Cloak Room bullshit.

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Posted
49 minutes ago, AnTiM said:

When I was in second or third grade our entire class was bused to the county jail for a tour.   After being carefully briefed, we were individually escorted to a cell, the door was slammed and locked and we were left alone for a few minutes to ponder what a few years would be like.  Seemed to have a good effect on me, but I imagine that it would now be considered child abuse.

 

 

Posted
1 hour ago, AnTiM said:

When I was in second or third grade our entire class was bused to the county jail for a tour.   After being carefully briefed, we were individually escorted to a cell, the door was slammed and locked and we were left alone for a few minutes to ponder what a few years would be like.  Seemed to have a good effect on me, but I imagine that it would now be considered child abuse.

 

In high school, they brought a bunch of convicts to our school, and they talked to us about prison life. They acted all tough, and got in a few kids' faces who were smarting off. 

Not sure it really did any good. Probably about as useless as the DARE program. 

 

Posted
1 hour ago, AnTiM said:

When I was in second or third grade our entire class was bused to the county jail for a tour.   After being carefully briefed, we were individually escorted to a cell, the door was slammed and locked and we were left alone for a few minutes to ponder what a few years would be like.  Seemed to have a good effect on me, but I imagine that it would now be considered child abuse.

 

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Posted
56 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

In high school, they brought a bunch of convicts to our school, and they talked to us about prison life. They acted all tough, and got in a few kids' faces who were smarting off. 

Not sure it really did any good. Probably about as useless as the DARE program. 

 

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Posted
2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Mexico has what many are expressing as a solution for minors.  Under 12, they are essentially unable to charge them with almost any crime.  12-18 is the age that they are sent to "correctional facilities".

This is why the cartels use them for their "sicarios" or other aspects such as lookouts, runners, etc.  They get caught and because of their age, there is little the state can do.  They do a minimal sentence, and they're back out on the streets.  Until they turn 18, there's not much the state can do and the cartels/gangs exploit this to the fullest.   

So fuck all that.  You do big boy shit, you can do the big boy time and face the consequences.  Coordinated car jacking, with a gun, and then murder when someone dares to try and keep their car from being stolen, checks that box.  

So after conviction, send them to Huntsville at 12 and 13 years old?

Posted
2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

So after conviction, send them to Huntsville at 12 and 13 years old?

I heard they are installing a splash pad for felons under 18.

Posted
4 hours ago, AnTiM said:

When I was in second or third grade our entire class was bused to the county jail for a tour.   After being carefully briefed, we were individually escorted to a cell, the door was slammed and locked and we were left alone for a few minutes to ponder what a few years would be like.  Seemed to have a good effect on me, but I imagine that it would now be considered child abuse.

 

4 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

"Scared Straight" - isn't there a show about this?

 

 

Posted
2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

So after conviction, send them to Huntsville at 12 and 13 years old?

They can share a cell with TxTow. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

So after conviction, send them to Huntsville at 12 and 13 years old?

 

Well, having to live in Alabama would be torture enough. Probably against the Geneva Convention too.  

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, PW119 said:

Your opinions about child murders changed because Trump was elected a second time? Get out of here with that weak Cloak Room bullshit.

My opinion of murderers has not changed. What changed is my ability to share in hypocritical, selective, moral outrage.

If you think plainly stating a fact is CR, you might be too sensitive.

Edited by Willfully Horn
Posted
23 hours ago, chainsaw said:

I'm against the death penalty, and I'm against long sentences for crimes committed by minors.

So basically you’re a fucking vagina in every thread. 

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Posted

These shit kids need to "mature" in prison.   They should not be out until their 40's at the earliest.  There is a close to zero chance they aren't a danger to society in their late teens and 20's if allowed back on the streets.  

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