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Posted

ISR is clearly superior to RPI and 100 better models can be designed (yes I have done so) but you will never get around midweek game weighting and injuries being issues.

But I do think a rule about under .500 in conference teams being eliminated from at-large consideration would be awesome. It will obviously never happen because of the megapowerconference hell we live in but I would institute it day one if I ever had that power. If a team has demonstrably proven they're not even better than average in their own conference then why the hell should they be in a tournament to decide a national champion? 

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

If a team has demonstrably proven they're not even better than average in their own conference then why the hell should they be in a tournament to decide a national champion? 

Well, Ole Miss finished tied for 7th in the SEC but is the 9th best conference team as per ISR (#20).  They were above 0.500 in conference, though (16-14).  OU finished 11th in conference but is #28 ISR.  I'm pretty comfortable with both making a 64 team field.

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Posted
1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, Ole Miss finished tied for 7th in the SEC but is the 9th best conference team as per ISR (#20).  They were above 0.500 in conference, though (16-14).  OU finished 11th in conference but is #28 ISR.  I'm pretty comfortable with both making a 64 team field.

I think the issue has become the same for baseball and basketball.  

What are you trying to do when you select your post season teams?  Pick the best teams, reward teams for the success of their season, and/or reward teams for playing a  competitive schedule?

Posted
3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, Ole Miss finished tied for 7th in the SEC but is the 9th best conference team as per ISR (#20).  They were above 0.500 in conference, though (16-14).  OU finished 11th in conference but is #28 ISR.  I'm pretty comfortable with both making a 64 team field.

They were behind 6 (and 10) teams in just their conference. Perfectly reasonable to leave them out of any size national championship tournament.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

They were behind 6 (and 10) teams in just their conference. Perfectly reasonable to leave them out of any size national championship tournament.

But what’s the remedy?  You are putting a much worse team in their place. Why? 

Posted
1 hour ago, PGFrog said:

I think the issue has become the same for baseball and basketball.  

What are you trying to do when you select your post season teams?  Pick the best teams, reward teams for the success of their season, and/or reward teams for playing a  competitive schedule?

To get back to the professional model:  I can't think of a sport where the goal isn't to reward the best season.  Nobody would moan that an NFL team started out 10-0 and then went 0-7 and still got into the playoffs.

 

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

They were behind 6 (and 10) teams in just their conference. Perfectly reasonable to leave them out of any size national championship tournament.

In favor of lesser teams?  I don't think that's reasonable at all.  They have to find 64 teams, so they might as well find the best 64 (minus whatever chaff get in through auto-qualify).  You yourself touted ISR.  By that standard, the SEC had 14 of the top 46 teams in the country.  Why should 6 of those be excluded from the playoffs?

Posted
45 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

But what’s the remedy?  You are putting a much worse team in their place. Why? 

Well I'm not doing anything, but I would shrink the baseball postseason too so that takes care of that.

Baseball more than any other sport is designed for a long season and way more games to determine the best teams and therefore who should be a champion. Giving the 11th best team in a conference a chance to catch a 3 week hot streak is dumb.

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Posted

Sure but that is just evidence that loading the tournament with a 16 team subset is even dumber because of the lack of interplay.

When a team has proven itself to be in the lower half of that 16 team subset it's silly to put them in a national championship tournament.

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Posted

There will never be a perfect system and I don’t think under .500 in conference play should disqualify you from an at-large bid. I do think you should have to win half your conference series to be eligible to host. Tennessee only winning 4/10 conference series and hosting is a joke

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Posted
1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

But what’s the remedy?  You are putting a much worse team in their place. Why? 

Reward winning. This isn’t that hard.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Reward winning. This isn’t that hard.

But they are not doing that, they are rewarding losing in the SEC over winning in other conferences.

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Posted

There are 307 D1 teams.  A 64 team playoff represents roughly the top 20%.  Cutting that field down, PARTICULARLY when a lack of interplay makes it difficult to assess relative strength, is nuts.  The goal should be to find the 64 teams that had the best 64 seasons, minus whatever "everybody gets a medal" autoqualify bullshit must be tolerated. 

Posted (edited)

I think they should think about adding play-in games like basketball before they think about expanding the field.

This year would have been as good a year as any to do it. Let UConn play Kentucky and let SELa play Oklahoma State for the right to get in

Edited by chase25
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Posted

The SEC bias is such that the Aggies were still considered a tourney possibility after getting swept at home by Mizzou.

Kentucky lost Lipscomb, Wofford and Xavier.  Two of those 3 in weekends series.  They won several one run games against weak competition.  On most days, they’re probably one of the best 64 teams.  At the same time, there’s no metrics confirming they’re certainly one of the 64 best.  They were 4 games under .500 in conference then lost the tourney opener.  In their non-conference, they beat two tourney teams - Miami of Ohio (KY won by 1 run) and Louisville.  They finished out 4-7 in May.


They have no marquee non-conference wins.  They don’t really have any high profile non-conference losses - simply losses to lesser conferences or middle of the road teams.  They finished poorly.  They’re sub-.500 in conference.  They were one of the few major conference teams that didn’t try to schedule a difficult non-conference series or tournament.  They won 2 series against tourney teams, and only 1 of those was above .500 in conference.  They were not even the last 4 in.

Cause they were 38th in the RPI and from the SEC.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

 minus whatever "everybody gets a medal" autoqualify bullshit must be tolerated. 

That seems the opposite of "everybody gets a medal"

Auto bids only go to champions. People who finish #1 in their league. My only issue is the weirdness of having that be the tournament champion. That is weird in basketball and even weirder in baseball. But without that I guess the tournaments would be pointless...I mean even more than they already are.

Edited by Valmy77
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

That seems the opposite of "everybody gets a medal"

Auto bids only go to champions. People who finish #1 in their league. My only issue is the weirdness of having that be the tournament champion. That is weird in basketball and even weirder in baseball. But without that I guess the tournaments would be pointless...I mean even more than they already are.

I've been very interested in relegation.  Soft version of that would be an NIT level event for 65-96.  Or you could add two teams to each regional taking you to 96 teams.  3v6, 4v5 with 1,2 getting a bye.  

Of course one could argue the conference tournaments are the first round of the playoffs and things were fine. I remember when they expanded the field from 48 to 64 and it seemed at the time it was harder for bubble out teams to make it after that.

Southland conference was hosed this year and I'd be pissed about it.

Edited by petscii
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Posted
6 hours ago, petscii said:

But they are not doing that, they are rewarding losing in the SEC over winning in other conferences.

Welcome to conference realignment and the last 15 years or so of the SEC becoming the vanguard of college sports.

SEC losses meaning more than other conferences wins has been a consistent trope since Timmy Tebow cried about losing to Ole Miss. it just means more my dude.

Posted
5 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

That seems the opposite of "everybody gets a medal"

I was alluding to champions of what are typically weak conferences.  But, logic would suggest that if there isn't much innerconnectivity between conferences (and even regions) then they need to get a shot.

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Posted
14 hours ago, Had Enough said:

The SEC bias is such that the Aggies were still considered a tourney possibility after getting swept at home by Mizzou.

Kentucky lost Lipscomb, Wofford and Xavier.  Two of those 3 in weekends series.  They won several one run games against weak competition.  On most days, they’re probably one of the best 64 teams.  At the same time, there’s no metrics confirming they’re certainly one of the 64 best.  They were 4 games under .500 in conference then lost the tourney opener.  In their non-conference, they beat two tourney teams - Miami of Ohio (KY won by 1 run) and Louisville.  They finished out 4-7 in May.


They have no marquee non-conference wins.  They don’t really have any high profile non-conference losses - simply losses to lesser conferences or middle of the road teams.  They finished poorly.  They’re sub-.500 in conference.  They were one of the few major conference teams that didn’t try to schedule a difficult non-conference series or tournament.  They won 2 series against tourney teams, and only 1 of those was above .500 in conference.  They were not even the last 4 in.

Cause they were 38th in the RPI and from the SEC.

Totally agree. Like UK’s softball team, baseball has no business being in the tournament. Had they not gotten swept by both MSU & Vandy I’d maybe think they could sneak in but they didn’t and shouldn't be in there. 

Posted
13 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

SEC losses meaning more than other conferences wins has been a consistent trope since Timmy Tebow cried about losing to Ole Miss. it just means more my dude.

National Championships are like that sometimes.  And that is a bit of an odd example for you, as we won the SEC as well that year.    Carry on. 

Posted
20 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

National Championships are like that sometimes.  And that is a bit of an odd example for you, as we won the SEC as well that year.    Carry on. 

But if you look at it from the perspective that we did not get a shot, you may see it differently.  This is all off the top of my head so I may be off.

We beat a “rival” by 40+ plus with their only TD being a fumble scoop and score.  It was a back up that fumbled.  There were 2 minutes left us up 52-3. A footnote that gets lost in the discussion is that I believe we pushed our schedule back due to hurricane impact.  So our bye week was less beneficial to us.

We had 4 top 15 matchups in the course of a month.  One versus a top 5 at a neutral site.  Won by 10 and had the momentum.  Finished on the road, at night in Techs biggest game in their history while they were top 10, maybe top 5.  OU got them at OU subsequent to that.  You know the type of game that is often an emotional letdown.

Seeing as how we beat a national championship participant we had the best win.  We had the last second loss on the road so we likely had the most acceptable loss.  UF lost at home.

Essentially we lost out on the conference championship game because OU had a better perceived non-conference schedule even though we had an SEC team on that schedule.

Ungrateful bastards for taking a spot when we gift wrapped an appearance for you when we took out Nebraska years earlier.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Ungrateful bastards for taking a spot when we gift wrapped an appearance for you when we took out Nebraska years earlier.

I have always given Texas props for the Nebraska game.  But you did not gift wrap it, you only wrapped half the package.  Ohio State coming back in the last minute to beat Jake the Snake is what ultimately allowed the FSU beat down.

But I will always buy a Longhorn a cocktail for that fourth and inches.

23 minutes ago, texifornia said:

Oh good another repeat of the same two conversations about the early 2000s

birthday-old.gif

Well, I always considered the option somewhat unacceptable.

Edited by Gatorubet
Posted
1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

I have always given Texas props for the Nebraska game.  But you did not gift wrap it, you only wrapped half the package.  Ohio State coming back in the last minute to beat Jake the Snake is what ultimately allowed the FSU beat down.

 

It’s odd.  I despise the SEC but hold no ill will towards Tebow or even UF for 2008.  It was all big 12 jackassery.

I had forgotten how 1996 all went down so I was merely running my mouth on that part.  Was generally a Spurrier fan so that wasn’t a bad outcome.

Posted

No expansion or change needed. Lets take a small sample size. 10 years - 7 different sec teams have won from 2014 - 2024.

The outleirs Virginia (on that note is Oak staying there...hmmm) . Coastal Carolina, and Oregon St..  So a littler spread arond the east - west but mostly SEC. 

Look at the last 4 years. Minus OK in 2022. Every team that made the final was SEC. 

 

 

Posted
10 hours ago, Had Enough said:

It’s odd.  I despise the SEC but hold no ill will towards Tebow or even UF for 2008.  It was all big 12 jackassery.

 

Same. It was the Big 12 coaching fraternity voting Texas lower to affect the BCS standings enough + a stupid ass tiebreaker + incompetent officiating at the conference level 

The anger in 2008 should always be directed to the pissant leeching programs who ensured we lost the tiebreaker. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, msudawg said:

No expansion or change needed. Lets take a small sample size. 10 years - 7 different sec teams have won from 2014 - 2024.

The outleirs Virginia (on that note is Oak staying there...hmmm) . Coastal Carolina, and Oregon St..  So a littler spread arond the east - west but mostly SEC. 

Look at the last 4 years. Minus OK in 2022. Every team that made the final was SEC. 

 

 

Look I don't dispute that the SEC has done remarkable things in the NCAA Baseball tournament and the CWS. The top 8, hell even top 10, SEC teams should be in the tournament and the top 4 should probably all be basically guaranteed top 8 national seeds.

But it gets a little ridiculous when the entire bottom of the league are considered bubble teams and 6 of the 8 top 8 national seeds and half the hosts are all SEC. Come on. And the effect is that the other leagues basically get treated like crap and seem disrespected. And we spent years in one of those other leagues. The Big 12 was regularly a top 4 or 3 RPI league but we might as well have been hammered dog shit. It was quite frustrating.

Now granted I guess if they want to be treated differently they need to beat all the SEC teams...but does it even make sense? Why would ALL the SEC get credit because of the excellence of the two teams that made the finals? Somebody, a few of them even from other leagues, beat all those other SEC teams. I think if you are one of those SEC teams who made the finals then you deserve some deference. Sure. But Kentucky has never made the finals. Why would they get deference? Just because they played teams that had? I didn't notice Baylor getting a ton of hype just because they played us back when we were regular championship participants. Kentucky has won one CWS game EVER. Granted it was last year...but still. 

Anyway glad to get the benefit of being the national #2 instead of the #2 at the Miami Regional for winning our conference.

Edited by Valmy77
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Posted

Last year, there were 19 SEC/ACC teams in the tourney.  The last decade or so you can throw East Carolina, Coastal Carolina.  Even an Indiana State.  All matched up against each other.  So guess what?  Odds are there will be a ton advance out of there with the most representation being the SEC.

Texas, at least from my “feel” of it, has had more difficulty advancing when playing west coast teams.  Texas fans have discussed the easy path of Tennessee Tech or South Florida.  At some level it was east coast teams that helped them get there.  East Carolina, Miami.

Now, the SEC did beat 2 west coast teams last year.  They did have home field advantage.  Traveling half way across the country is tough.  Something even the most western SEC teams are reluctant to do non-conference cause you might run into an extra loss or two.
 

The west coast has been squeezed for the past two decades which has resulted in guys like Braden Montgomery and Paul Skenes running east.  Maybe even a Dylan Volantis.  Much of that is the west coast teams fault, but it’s two decades worth of SEC/ACC over representation and over seeding that has essentially built upon itself year over year.  There are reasons FSU hasn’t won the whole thing in spite of many opportunities.  Part of that is their path to get there.

Kentucky last year and Texas this year won 22 conference games.  Neither would be considered super talented.  Maybe that talent disparity isn’t what some think.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Texas, at least from my “feel” of it, has had more difficulty advancing when playing west coast teams.  Texas fans have discussed the easy path of Tennessee Tech or South Florida.  At some level it was east coast teams that helped them get there.  East Carolina, Miami.

That was definitely true back in the day. Even just a decade ago the West Coast teams were just much stronger on pitching and defense and all that while the Eastern teams tended to be mashers.

These days though it seems like the West Coast is not doing well in all major college sports not just baseball. I would hate to see it go the way of the Northeast.

Edited by Valmy77
Posted
5 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

These days though it seems like the West Coast is not doing well in all major college sports not just baseball. I would hate to see it go the way of the Northeast.

Seems like it already has which sucks.

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Posted
46 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

 

Apparently the Virginia AD is ass and they renewed the contract for her so he’s like, see ya. I read she won’t even approve fully funding all 34 baseball scholarships 

Posted
6 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

That was definitely true back in the day. Even just a decade ago the West Coast teams were just much stronger on pitching and defense and all that while the Eastern teams tended to be mashers.

These days though it seems like the West Coast is not doing well in all major college sports not just baseball. I would hate to see it go the way of the Northeast.

 

46 minutes ago, WBT said:

Seems like it already has which sucks.

Yep, their lack of interest across the board has been detrimental.  I mean Stanford lost a big time baseball player and softball player to A&M and Tech.  It’s competition and dollars.

Posted
24 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Apparently the Virginia AD is ass and they renewed the contract for her so he’s like, see ya. I read she won’t even approve fully funding all 34 baseball scholarships 

Golly, I wonder why he wasn't interested in aggy?

image.png.812e534fcd7b85980b33519c63dd54e4.png

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Posted (edited)

The only first time regional team in this year's tournament is USC-Upstate, the 4 seed in the Clemson regional.  They are led by first-year head coach Kane Sweeney who was drafted out of Morehead State by the Yankees in the 29th round in 2015 and spent 2 years in their organization.  USC-Upstate's RBI leader this year is senior Johnny Sweeney, the head coach's younger brother.

Edited by WBT
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Posted
11 hours ago, Levi said:

 

1juop7.jpg

 

 

I'm hoping it's true. Signs are leaning. it's true. 

But I also know the last coaching search we did in 18, (different ad) some coach named Sloss signed an MOU with us but backed out because we were dumb and didnt want to announce while the interim coach Henderson took our boys all the way to Omaha. 

That wont happen again, We have to have a new head coach sometime next week with the transfer portal opening. 

Oh and strong rumor he will bring his staff...except the pitching coach as Corey Muscara, wake forest pitching coach will be joining our staff. 

Still lots of moving pieces but the goal was to get a sitting P4 head coach. I feel very certain even if this falls thru, the other names are not of the same caliber but still a vey good hire. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, msudawg said:

1juop7.jpg

 

 

I'm hoping it's true. Signs are leaning. it's true. 

But I also know the last coaching search we did in 18, (different ad) some coach named Sloss signed an MOU with us but backed out because we were dumb and didnt want to announce while the interim coach Henderson took our boys all the way to Omaha. 

That wont happen again, We have to have a new head coach sometime next week with the transfer portal opening. 

Oh and strong rumor he will bring his staff...except the pitching coach as Corey Muscara, wake forest pitching coach will be joining our staff. 

Still lots of moving pieces but the goal was to get a sitting P4 head coach. I feel very certain even if this falls thru, the other names are not of the same caliber but still a vey good hire. 

Congrats to you if it happens, and that's an ASU level destruction of a program if Virginia loses him.

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Posted
6 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

 

I had seen 500k. 800k is still not a big deal. BOC had it set low after UVA made him promises for funding to get him to turn down A&M. evidently the funding hasnt been fully realized. Plus, what we are offering him will put our commitment for baseball back in the top of the SEC which is vastly better than anything UVA can offer him. 

Posted
1 hour ago, texifornia said:

Come on Horns, Heels, and Lions - I've got a team to cheer for at essentially each time slot.

You left out the Bearcats of Binghamton who play UGA.

Famous alumni….

Tony Kornheiser

Flo from Progressive 

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