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Charlie Kirk assassinated at an event in Utah [Crazy Person]


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Posted
8 hours ago, Coelenterate Fuccboi said:

Although I have no doubt many of these are true under some context, a Google search seems to reveal the first two as false. 

-          Gay people should be stoned to death – Steven King already had to walk back this claim and publicly, “I apologize for saying Charlie Kirk advocated stoning gays. What he actually demonstrated was how some people cherry-pick Biblical passages,” the 77-year-old author wrote on the social media platform X.”

-          Most people are scared when they see a black pilot – Seems false. His statement: “If I see a Black pilot, I'm gonna be like, "Boy, I hope he's qualified.", in relation to DEI.

My point being, if we're going call him out for spreading misinformation, maybe we shouldn't do it with misinformation. 

It's natural for us to seek information that supports our beliefs and spread it without fact checking, we all do it regularly. However, I think we have a civic duty to not be lazy or justify doing it simply because someone else does.  

So let me ask you. Why does he bring up the verse? Did someone ask him if stoning gays people was ok? 
 

Why bring up DEI if he thinks pilot is qualified? 
 

You’re a sad person if you think his wolf whistles are anything but right wing, white nationalist, racist bullshit. But of course you’re not honest with yourself and looking for any excuse to justify his actions. 

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

What are you stupid? No one is talking about the 1st Amendment. What we ARE talking about is personal responsibility. You asked what generation I am from? I am from the generation where we never knew you were supposed to wear helmets to ride bikes. That same generation knew that WORDS got your ass kicked. If you came home and told your dad that you called some kid a(insert racial epithet) and got your ass kicked, he would simply ask you what did you learn. Your parents weren't running up to your school saying, "but words". 

When I was a kid you didn't turn on tv and see anyone, anywhere saying the hateful shit Charlie Kirk said. You also didn't have the got-damned President of the United States saying divisive shit while addressing the nation. 

Words have always been the catalyst to violence. Always. Right wing media is saying that Kirk got popped because the left was calling him a Nazi and White Supremacist. Well, the simple solution is don't say White Supremacist/Nazi shit.

Kirk said this-"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified'"

That statement IS White Supremacy. He wouldn't wonder if a White pilot is qualified because the pilot is White. Both pilots got their pilot's license from the same place, but because he sees the black pilot as inferior, he would question his qualification. Someone who was not a White Supremacist would say, "Gee, I hope ANY pilot is qualified". 

Kirk is dead because HE continued spouting rhetoric like this. He could've stopped at any time. It's not our responsibility to not categorize his rhetoric, it's his responsibility to control what comes out of his mouth. We literally use these same principles everywhere else. When we hear a rapper got shot and killed because he wore a bunch of jewelry in the hood what do we say? Opposing sports fan being a douche in the wrong section what do we say? At some point the onus is on you. I am not going to stop calling people White Supremacist when I literally have dudes doing Nazi Salutes at the Inauguration for the President of the United States of America. 

 

100% the truth except he's not dead for spouting the rhetoric that you're citing. He's dead for rhetoric and actions that put him at odds with lunatics like Nick Fuentes. 

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Posted
8 hours ago, Coelenterate Fuccboi said:

Although I have no doubt many of these are true under some context, a Google search seems to reveal the first two as false. 

-          Gay people should be stoned to death – Steven King already had to walk back this claim and publicly, “I apologize for saying Charlie Kirk advocated stoning gays. What he actually demonstrated was how some people cherry-pick Biblical passages,” the 77-year-old author wrote on the social media platform X.”

-          Most people are scared when they see a black pilot – Seems false. His statement: “If I see a Black pilot, I'm gonna be like, "Boy, I hope he's qualified.", in relation to DEI.

My point being, if we're going call him out for spreading misinformation, maybe we shouldn't do it with misinformation. 

It's natural for us to seek information that supports our beliefs and spread it without fact checking, we all do it regularly. However, I think we have a civic duty to not be lazy or justify doing it simply because someone else does.  

If King instead wrote, "Charlie Kirk implied gays should be stoned to death," there would have been no apology. Kirk left ambiguity in his words, likely on purpose. Just as he did when he said, "If I see a black pilot I'm going to be like boy I hope he's qualified." It's a racist statement even though in context he's blaming his words and internal monologue on supposed hiring quotas, because hiring quotas DO NOT EXIST.

 

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

What are you stupid? No one is talking about the 1st Amendment. What we ARE talking about is personal responsibility. You asked what generation I am from? I am from the generation where we never knew you were supposed to wear helmets to ride bikes. That same generation knew that WORDS got your ass kicked. If you came home and told your dad that you called some kid a(insert racial epithet) and got your ass kicked, he would simply ask you what did you learn. Your parents weren't running up to your school saying, "but words". 

When I was a kid you didn't turn on tv and see anyone, anywhere saying the hateful shit Charlie Kirk said. You also didn't have the got-damned President of the United States saying divisive shit while addressing the nation. 

Words have always been the catalyst to violence. Always. Right wing media is saying that Kirk got popped because the left was calling him a Nazi and White Supremacist. Well, the simple solution is don't say White Supremacist/Nazi shit.

Kirk said this-"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified'"

That statement IS White Supremacy. He wouldn't wonder if a White pilot is qualified because the pilot is White. Both pilots got their pilot's license from the same place, but because he sees the black pilot as inferior, he would question his qualification. Someone who was not a White Supremacist would say, "Gee, I hope ANY pilot is qualified". 

Kirk is dead because HE continued spouting rhetoric like this. He could've stopped at any time. It's not our responsibility to not categorize his rhetoric, it's his responsibility to control what comes out of his mouth. We literally use these same principles everywhere else. When we hear a rapper got shot and killed because he wore a bunch of jewelry in the hood what do we say? Opposing sports fan being a douche in the wrong section what do we say? At some point the onus is on you. I am not going to stop calling people White Supremacist when I literally have dudes doing Nazi Salutes at the Inauguration for the President of the United States of America. 

 

Pretty sure that dude is just being willfully ignorant at this point. 

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Posted
9 hours ago, caliHORNia said:

Is that a serious response?  Violence is an acceptable response to words you don't agree with?  

Maybe I'm an old.  When I grew up we said Sticks and Stones May Break Your Bones but Words Will Never Hurt You.

What generation are you from?

Can you explain to me, in your terms, what the 1st Amendment says?

 

He did say strive, not legislate.

One way to view it is violence is never acceptable in response to speech, but that doesn't give us carte blanche to say whatever comes to mind.

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Posted

We've recognized that propagandists should at least sometimes be held responsible for the effects their words can have since we executed Julius Streicher at Nuremburg.

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Posted
4 hours ago, Derka said:

and just in case this has already been posted…

 

 

 

 

giphy.gif?cid=9b38fe91wvsjo148lccn5xt6ib

But that's one for the ages.

That's not how a Christian eulogizes her husband.  Full.  Stop.

I didn't watch because I have sympathy for his family and loved ones and also for the shooter's family and most similarly situated.

But I also quickly suspected it violated the words and spirit of Rom. 12:19.  Which is a common human reaction, but not something any Christian should do gratuitously.

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Posted
8 hours ago, troph said:

If she could be elevated and have a better research team she’d be really good. She does tell the facts as they appear to be but grok and wiki aren’t the best sourcesah

Interesting sidenote.  Because she's older than your usual influencer type, I went digging around on her.  She was/is married to a prominent Oklahoma lawyer who was a drunk that was seriously straining their marriage.  At one point, he was involved in a witness tampering incident that led to his disbarment.

He got sober, did what he needed to, and was re-admitted to the bar all in a public fashion.

It wasn't clear to me whether they actually divorced, but it appears that she stood by him and either they didn't or remarried.  And it all went down in a way that it seemed she was an Al Anon type (hardcore on accountability) rather than a complete hostage.

I found the whole thing to be a pretty compelling story.

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Posted
Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Interesting sidenote.  Because she's older than your usual influencer type, I went digging around on her.  She was/is married to a prominent Oklahoma lawyer who was a drunk that was seriously straining their marriage.  At one point, he was involved in a witness tampering incident that led to his disbarment.

He got sober, did what he needed to, and was re-admitted to the bar all in a public fashion.

It wasn't clear to me whether they actually divorced, but it appears that she stood by him and either they didn't or remarried.  And it all went down in a way that it seemed she was an Al Anon type (hardcore on accountability) rather than a complete hostage.

I found the whole thing to be a pretty compelling story.

That’s would explain some of the gravitas behind the pretty middle aged face. 

I don’t like how she nicknames public figures though.

Posted
32 minutes ago, Chopper said:

If King instead wrote, "Charlie Kirk implied gays should be stoned to death," there would have been no apology. Kirk left ambiguity in his words, likely on purpose. Just as he did when he said, "If I see a black pilot I'm going to be like boy I hope he's qualified." It's a racist statement even though in context he's blaming his words and internal monologue on supposed hiring quotas, because hiring quotas DO NOT EXIST.

 

Right. Implying a point instead of simply stating it allows the speaker to deny responsibility and you see this all the time.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Right. Implying a point instead of simply stating it allows the speaker to deny responsibility and you see this all the time.

Allows you to deny a position when backed into a corner too. Prove me wrong!!!

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Posted

IMG_5294.thumb.jpeg.e52bc1ccfa58df51e875255c59557686.jpeg
 

Meanwhile his widow is using his corpse to launch her own right ring influencer career. It’s amazing how little genuine human connection exists on the right. Everyone is simply a tool to be used and the instant you’re no longer useful you’re discarded.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Shaddie said:

What are you blabbering about? 
It is well known words can hurt. 
If I was Black and someone said to me you were better off in the 40’s. 
I would hate that guy cause the 40’s were Jim Crow laws, active KKK and at least in Texas many places were known as sunset cities. Basically don’t be black here after dark. 
 

Quit listening to Fox News (who lost 850 million in a lawsuit because proved they lie). 

Let's update this a little bit.  I graduated high school in 1984, so yeah I'm an old but not that old.

In 1983.  Year of our Lord nineteen hundred and eighty three, one of, if not the first integrated classes in the state of Mississippi graduated.

So, in case anybody missed it, hard core, absolutely undeniable institutional racism was occurring in the US in the 1980s and being forcibly remediated by law.

While Texas and Chris Curry were playing for a National Championship.

If that's abstract to anyone any longer, hopefully this makes it more concrete.  It did for me.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted

I can't help but wonder, how would Kirk's popularity and reception be different if he didn't wrap himself in a Jesus blanket? Same controversial political views, same pension for propaganda and half-truths, and commendable willingness to debate (strictly set up to create viral moments or not). Just without all the God stuff. How many people would even know his name? The built-in audience of someone who prides themselves on being openly "Christian" is insane. The Tim Tebow effect.

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Posted
9 hours ago, Coelenterate Fuccboi said:

Although I have no doubt many of these are true under some context, a Google search seems to reveal the first two as false. 

-          Gay people should be stoned to death – Steven King already had to walk back this claim and publicly, “I apologize for saying Charlie Kirk advocated stoning gays. What he actually demonstrated was how some people cherry-pick Biblical passages,” the 77-year-old author wrote on the social media platform X.”

-          Most people are scared when they see a black pilot – Seems false. His statement: “If I see a Black pilot, I'm gonna be like, "Boy, I hope he's qualified.", in relation to DEI.

My point being, if we're going call him out for spreading misinformation, maybe we shouldn't do it with misinformation. 

It's natural for us to seek information that supports our beliefs and spread it without fact checking, we all do it regularly. However, I think we have a civic duty to not be lazy or justify doing it simply because someone else does.  

Agreed, hence when trying to demonstrate Kirk's use of propaganda, lies, and confusing misdirection, I cited only source material, I.e. the man himself.

And it is currently difficult to drill down on Kirk source material because of death-related search results.

Posted
21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

But that's one for the ages.

That's not how a Christian eulogizes her husband.  Full.  Stop.

I didn't watch because I have sympathy for his family and loved ones and also for the shooter's family and most similarly situated.

But I also quickly suspected it violated the words and spirit of Rom. 12:19.  Which is a common human reaction, but not something any Christian should do gratuitously.

Jesus regarding his executioners: Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.

Kirk's widow: Yes, I know our beloved President Chipocalypse Now has threatened the parts of America he hates with war, but now that a MAGA family member has killed my husband, you're REALLY  gonna get it.

Amen.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Texaus said:

Is anyone in mainstream media covering the groyper/fuentes connection? Wtf

Scott Simon on NPR just mentioned it, though I don’t know that’s considered mainstream.

And to clarify, when asked about this possible connection, his guest said “We really don’t know,” and cautioned against speculating on motives at this point given all the misinformation out there. You know, like a responsible journalist.

Edited by South Austin
Posted
10 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

IMG_5294.thumb.jpeg.e52bc1ccfa58df51e875255c59557686.jpeg
 

Meanwhile his widow is using his corpse to launch her own right ring influencer career. It’s amazing how little genuine human connection exists on the right. Everyone is simply a tool to be used and the instant you’re no longer useful you’re discarded.

Check out my new ballroom!

Posted
1 minute ago, Texaus said:

Is anyone in mainstream media covering the groyper/fuentes connection? Wtf

I think (especially after the Guardian massive screw-up), actual journalists need time to process.  We don’t have anything firm except that he was terminally online and threw out some slogans from toxic internet places. 
 

Best to tune out most of social media on this. 

Posted

Just in case anyone forgot or didn't know, Charlie Kirk and TPUSA bused HUNDREDS of people to D.C. on January 6th.  This guy sent a battalion strength group of hostile people to the nation's capitol to invade our seat of government and try overturning our democratically held elections.  These same people were chanting that they wanted to hang the Vice President and they actually built a rudimentary gallows to do the job if they were to get their hands on him.  George Washington ordered the execution of motherfuckers for MUCH less than that.  

This guy was a treasonous shit-stain who made the world a worse place every day he was breathing.  

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Posted
1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Soooo...it's been over 24 hours since this kid was detained. No updates from police/FBI? Motive? 

 

 

Reports have been that he ain't talking.

Posted
Is that a serious response?  Violence is an acceptable response to words you don't agree with?  
Maybe I'm an old.  When I grew up we said Sticks and Stones May Break Your Bones but Words Will Never Hurt You.
What generation are you from?
Can you explain to me, in your terms, what the 1st Amendment says?
 

I explained it yesterday in reply to your post. It means that the government can not restrict speech (with some exceptions). Kirk’s 1st Amendment rights were not infringed this week.
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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

They have his computer and phone, right? 

They do.  That said, maybe since they wrongly "had their guy" twice and authorities had no idea where this suspect, who sounds like he "just went home" after doing this was and ultimately were bailed out by his dad recognizing him, maybe they are trying to be more careful about rushing out incomplete information.

And yeah I had to work really hard to type those last words.

Edited by Surly Bevo
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Posted
1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

What this whole episode has taught me is that there are even more idiots in this country than I had thought. It is embarrassing.

I didn’t think this was possible, but yep.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Shaddie said:

You’re a sad person if you think his wolf dog whistles are anything but right wing, white nationalist, racist bullshit. But of course you’re not honest with yourself and looking for any excuse to justify his actions. 

fixed 

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Posted
17 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I can't help but wonder, how would Kirk's popularity and reception be different if he didn't wrap himself in a Jesus blanket? Same controversial political views, same pension for propaganda and half-truths, and commendable willingness to debate (strictly set up to create viral moments or not). Just without all the God stuff. How many people would even know his name? The built-in audience of someone who prides themselves on being openly "Christian" is insane. The Tim Tebow effect.

The old “I love Jesus and so all the bad shit I say and do is ok”. 

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Posted
43 minutes ago, Shaddie said:

But of course you’re not honest with yourself and looking for any excuse to justify his actions.

It may surprise you that some people just want to find the crumbs of truth in life. I’m not christian. I’m not republican. I have a gay daughter who has no doubt I love and support her. It would be easy to take all his “quoted” comments at face value and share the anger towards him.

However, when things like this happen I try to dig down and truly find the “why”, because actions this extreme bother me, deeply. What I found was many lies and exaggerations that are taken as truth by people and causing blind hate. The same lies and exaggerations we will always find if we care to look in-depth at any issue. Otherwise, I could have easily believed in Pelosi’s gay lover story. 

I don’t have to like a person or support their platform to want them to have a fair “trial”. Hell, I couldn’t have told you more than a few words about this guy a few days ago. 

In summary, fuck off with your broad brush and assumptions. I’ll see myself out… 

 

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Posted
49 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

violence is never acceptable in response to speech, but that doesn't give us carte blanche to say whatever comes to mind.

A friend of mine brought down the house as a 2L at the UofA law school way back in 1982 in a Con Law class on 1st Amendment cases, e.g., is putting an American flag on the ass of your jeans “protected speech?” Is shouting “Fire!” In a crowded theater protected? The was a Harvard Law grad who behaved as if he were doing us southern rubes a great favor by showing up for class. In a lull between the prof’s pontificating, my friend put up his hand and was invited to speak.  He said “Patrick Henry said, ‘Give me liberty or give me death.’  He didn’t say “FUCK THE QUEEN!”  Two minutes of laughing and applause followed.  Prof even smiled, just a little.

Posted
16 minutes ago, Texaus said:

Is anyone in mainstream media covering the groyper/fuentes connection? Wtf

I heard about this Thursday or Friday.  We'll see if the story has legs or not.

26 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

While Texas and Chris Curry were playing for a National Championship.

Did he have a brother named Craig?

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Posted
19 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

What this whole episode has taught me is that there are even more idiots in this country than I had thought. It is embarrassing.

If I’m being honest, Thursday and Friday have made me much more depressed about the future of this country than Wednesday did.

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Posted
38 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I can't help but wonder, how would Kirk's popularity and reception be different if he didn't wrap himself in a Jesus blanket? Same controversial political views, same pension for propaganda and half-truths, and commendable willingness to debate (strictly set up to create viral moments or not). Just without all the God stuff. How many people would even know his name? The built-in audience of someone who prides themselves on being openly "Christian" is insane. The Tim Tebow effect.

It's amazing to me how anything thinks Charlie Kirk is a Christian. 

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Posted
27 minutes ago, SpiralOut said:

Just in case anyone forgot or didn't know, Charlie Kirk and TPUSA bused HUNDREDS of people to D.C. on January 6th.  This guy sent a battalion strength group of hostile people to the nation's capitol to invade our seat of government and try overturning our democratically held elections.  These same people were chanting that they wanted to hang the Vice President and they actually built a rudimentary gallows to do the job if they were to get their hands on him.  George Washington ordered the execution of motherfuckers for MUCH less than that.  

This guy was a treasonous shit-stain who made the world a worse place every day he was breathing.  

Didn't know that, so I looked it up.  Kinzinger watched over his deposition:

 

image.png.66bafff505fa1313c9965df488db7844.png

Posted

MAGA!!

Body not even in the ground before:

- Crowder changes his twitter bio to brag about taking over Kirk's "#1 Conservative Daily Show" slot

-Shapiro takes over TPUSA to help cover DailyWire's failure

-Wife posts bizarre video using his ACTUAL CORPSE(???) to launch her influencer career

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

 

It was such obvious bullshit, but interesting that an anonymous source would retract their statement. 

In a normal world this update would matter, but not with the Republican cult in power. 

 

Posted
7 minutes ago, Bookman said:

It's amazing to me how anything thinks Charlie Kirk is a Christian. 

Well, I am seeing posts on Facebook that say stuff like, "he is our martyr, our Jesus Christ".  I find it interesting and sad that these people viewed Trumps failed assassination attempt and tried to make him like their new Jesus Christ.  They so want Jesus to come down from the heavens they will kind of put anybody into that role at this point.  They need their Jesus on earth.  They need their martyr to spread their faith to the people that aren't Christians in this country.  Religion is a hell of a drug. 

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