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Posted
31 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

As I understand it, it's where the lady also pays the pizza delivery guy after they bang, so he doesn't end up back at the shop short cash, putting his job at risk.

Thanks for the tip.  I was wondering if I needed to look for a sticker or something like they put on free trade, organic, gluten free foods before I whip it out and start to wank.

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Posted
40 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

As I understand it, it's where the lady also pays the pizza delivery guy after they bang, so he doesn't end up back at the shop short cash, putting his job at risk.


Yeah, they make sure to sign the work order as well.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Crossdressing is not an inherently erotic activity. There are plenty of men who just enjoy wearing women's clothing, because it's a lot more fucking fun than the shit y'all wear

Not inherently no. However, getting turned on by dressing up is crossdressing territory, not to be confused with trans which has nothing to do with that. Many people out there think trans folks are only doing what they do to satisfy some sexual desire. I like to make the distinction because it's a pretty widespread false opinion.

Also y'all? Have I mistaken you for a dude this whole time?

Edited by Thatguy
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Posted
7 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Not inherently no. However, getting turned on by dressing up is crossdressing territory, not to be confused with trans which has nothing to do with that. Many people out there think trans folks are only doing what they do to satisfy some sexual desire. I like to make the distinction because it's a pretty widespread false opinion.

Also y'all? Have I mistaken you for a dude this whole time?

Comedy Central Drinking GIF by Drunk History

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Posted (edited)

You must have missed every post where I refer to myself as a dyke. Women's fashion is inherently much more varied and interesting (and thus, imo, fun) than men's fashion, which is what y'all (the male majority of Surly) wear.

Edited by safe sex
Posted
Just now, safe sex said:

You must have missed every post where I refer to myself as a dyke. Women's fashion is inherently much more fun than men's fashion, which is what y'all (the male majority of Surly) wear.

Most def did miss that. I can't argue against women's fashion being better than men's as I have appreciated it for decades now.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, mooseoutfront said:

Honest question...What is non-exploitative porn, trans or otherwise? 

Porn that doesn't...exploit the performers? Porn that doesn't pressure women into doing things that they wouldn't otherwise want to do sexually (being forced to deepthroat until vomiting, getting slapped around while being called a bitch or whore, multiple penetrations of the same orifice at the same time, etc. etc. etc.). Even if the porn is vanilla, the contracts, conditions, schedule, etc., can be exploitative. Modern pornography is so much more violent and fetishistic than it was when most of Surly was coming of age. Non-exploitative porn usually means that a woman is directing or producing it, and very often the performers are intimately involved in the production as well (and not just by performing, obv). It usually means there is more affirmation-centered dirty talk than degradation-centered dirty talk (definitely no use of slurs in the case of trans porn). It's usually more vanilla than kinky, but there are plenty of ways for kink to produced without exploiting the performers. It really isn't hard, but most straight men involved in producing porn (and seemingly the majority of those who consume porn) don't seem to care whether or not their porn is exploiting the performers, as long as they can bust their nut and/or make money.

Everyone should critically think about the porn they consume.

 

Edited by safe sex
grammar
Posted
8 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Most def did miss that. I can't argue against women's fashion being better than men's as I have appreciated it for decades now.

Well she’s 6’ tall and likes to eat pussy so we do have some commonalities. What we have in common is greater than what divides us. 

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Posted
10 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Porn that doesn't...exploit the performers? Porn that doesn't pressure women into doing things that they wouldn't otherwise want to do sexually (being forced to deepthroat until vomiting, getting slapped around while being called a bitch or whore, multiple penetrations of the same orifice at the same time, etc. etc. etc.). Even if the porn is vanilla, the contracts, conditions, schedule, etc., can be exploitative. Modern pornography is so much more violent and fetishistic than it was when most of Surly was coming of age. Non-exploitative porn usually means that a women is directing or producing it, and very often the performers are intimately involved in the production as well (and not just by performing, obv). It usually means there is more affirmation-centered dirty talk than degradation-centered dirty talk (definitely no use of slurs in the case of trans porn). It's usually more vanilla than kinky, but there are plenty of ways for kink to produced without exploiting the performers. It really isn't hard, but most straight men involved in producing porn (and seemingly the majority of those of consume porn) don't seem to care whether or not their porn is exploiting the performers, as long as they can bust their nut.

Everyone should critically think about the porn they consume.

 

I get what you're saying, but there's an argument that anyone who gets paid to make porn is being exploited; that it is inherently exploitative.

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Posted
22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I get what you're saying, but there's an argument that anyone who gets paid to make porn is being exploited; that it is inherently exploitative.

It's pretty exploitative. Have a conversation with an actual porn star for a bit. Eye opening! When you hear how they started vs how they ended up. Same with modeling.

Posted
1 hour ago, safe sex said:

Porn that doesn't...exploit the performers? Porn that doesn't pressure women into doing things that they wouldn't otherwise want to do sexually (being forced to deepthroat until vomiting, getting slapped around while being called a bitch or whore, multiple penetrations of the same orifice at the same time, etc. etc. etc.). Even if the porn is vanilla, the contracts, conditions, schedule, etc., can be exploitative. Modern pornography is so much more violent and fetishistic than it was when most of Surly was coming of age. Non-exploitative porn usually means that a woman is directing or producing it, and very often the performers are intimately involved in the production as well (and not just by performing, obv). It usually means there is more affirmation-centered dirty talk than degradation-centered dirty talk (definitely no use of slurs in the case of trans porn). It's usually more vanilla than kinky, but there are plenty of ways for kink to produced without exploiting the performers. It really isn't hard, but most straight men involved in producing porn (and seemingly the majority of those who consume porn) don't seem to care whether or not their porn is exploiting the performers, as long as they can bust their nut and/or make money.

Everyone should critically think about the porn they consume.

 

Username checks out

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Posted
2 hours ago, safe sex said:

Porn that doesn't...exploit the performers? Porn that doesn't pressure women into doing things that they wouldn't otherwise want to do sexually (being forced to deepthroat until vomiting, getting slapped around while being called a bitch or whore, multiple penetrations of the same orifice at the same time, etc. etc. etc.). Even if the porn is vanilla, the contracts, conditions, schedule, etc., can be exploitative. Modern pornography is so much more violent and fetishistic than it was when most of Surly was coming of age. Non-exploitative porn usually means that a woman is directing or producing it, and very often the performers are intimately involved in the production as well (and not just by performing, obv). It usually means there is more affirmation-centered dirty talk than degradation-centered dirty talk (definitely no use of slurs in the case of trans porn). It's usually more vanilla than kinky, but there are plenty of ways for kink to produced without exploiting the performers. It really isn't hard, but most straight men involved in producing porn (and seemingly the majority of those who consume porn) don't seem to care whether or not their porn is exploiting the performers, as long as they can bust their nut and/or make money.

Everyone should critically think about the porn they consume.

 

Appreciate the reply.

I find the bolded part of your response the most interesting.

My wife and I run with a interesting crowd, both back in Texas before we moved to Alaska and up here too.  The kink scene is very widespread.  I personally know several women who love being treated like "dirty fucking whores." Women who are turned on by and get off on everything you listed as aberrant sexual behavior.  I know this because I've spoken to them about it after the scene and the aftercare were over.  We've gone to house parties and witnessed Dom/Sub interactions that neither my wife nor I could fathom, but it's not meant for us to understand.  That's between the Dom and the Sub.  As long as everyone is a consenting adult, and I'm assuming that if you are on a movie set getting paid to perform those acts (if not, then that's a different discussion) you are, then who is anyone else to say what should or shouldn't be put on the market for others to consume?

Posted

I was listening to some Trump voters being interviewed that had previously been undecided. One person said they decided on Trump because they hoped he would surround himself with good advisors. I'm sorry WTF? He has such a great history of doing just that, so I'm sure there will be Nobel laureates all over the place and he'll follow all their guidance. Just idiotic. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

I was listening to some Trump voters being interviewed that had previously been undecided. One person said they decided on Trump because they hoped he would surround himself with good advisors. I'm sorry WTF? He has such a great history of doing just that, so I'm sure there will be Nobel laureates all over the place and he'll follow all their guidance. Just idiotic. 

Yeah his "good advisers" from last time around all pretty much call him Hitler now. 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, mooseoutfront said:

Appreciate the reply.

I find the bolded part of your response the most interesting.

My wife and I run with a interesting crowd, both back in Texas before we moved to Alaska and up here too.  The kink scene is very widespread.  I personally know several women who love being treated like "dirty fucking whores." Women who are turned on by and get off on everything you listed as aberrant sexual behavior.  I know this because I've spoken to them about it after the scene and the aftercare were over.  We've gone to house parties and witnessed Dom/Sub interactions that neither my wife nor I could fathom, but it's not meant for us to understand.  That's between the Dom and the Sub.  As long as everyone is a consenting adult, and I'm assuming that if you are on a movie set getting paid to perform those acts (if not, then that's a different discussion) you are, then who is anyone else to say what should or shouldn't be put on the market for others to consume?

For sure, consenting adults can get really fucking freaky! I'm pretty kinky myself, though I've got a lot of hard lines, too. I went to Torture Garden last year for Halloween and dripped candle wax over a couple of consenting sex workers who actively told me to do it them. I'm not sure I'm going back this year because the party didn't really live up to the name tbh.

The problem with extreme kink and porn is the profit motive. The more extreme the kink, the smaller the pool of performers/workers you have. With that smaller pool comes a greater asking price for the workers. Furthermore, the more extreme the kink, the smaller the pool of consumers become. Now add in the vice tax, by which I mean the social stigma that porn has, and the scuzzier and less ethical the pool of producers becomes. How do scumbags maximize profits within capitalism? They certainly don't invest in their people and they certainly don't invest in their capital. And in pornography, those are one and the same. Porn producers will take advantage of naive young women (and men!) with all sorts of heinous contracts. Add in some human trafficking, runaways, etc., etc..

That is an extreme illustration, for sure, but it applies to both kink and non-fetish porn. And anyway, the exploitation doesn't even have to be that bad. Just think about how much the average job fucks over the worker in today's economy. That is compounded in industries where there are a lot of grey areas and where much of the industry is hidden away from the public at-large.

For the record, I'm generally pro-pornography. Like many things in this country, our reluctance to admit that almost everyone partakes in this "vice" keeps us from being able to make it a safer and more egalitarian aspect of society and the economy. That's why ethical and non-exploitative porn is important. It's not always easy to find, and it's next to impossible to fully vet, and I'm sure there are probably scumbags who claim to be one of the ~good pornographers~; but while there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, we should always try to mitigate the harm we inflict because we are part of a society that has made certain choices.

Edited by safe sex
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Posted

By the way, @mooseoutfront, I want to clarify that I don't think kink, or enjoying being called a "dirty fucking whore" during sex is "aberrant sexual behavior." But I'd like to point out that the first part of the sentence mentioning name calling including slapping women in the face. I have a very particular series of porn in mind when I put those two together, and if you wouldn't consider those "aberrant sexual behavior" or exploitative pornography, then I wouldn't want to engage in any further conversation about the topic with you. If you don't know what I'm referring to, please trust me when I tell you that they are not videos that someone could have properly consented to perform in.

You also mentioned aftercare, which is something that does not happen on a lot of porn sets, especially those on the sleazier side of the industry. I also don't think it's correct to refer to a porn set as a "movie set." They are not the same thing, and they are not treated the same by society or the government or by the people involved on them (referring to non-mainstream porno especially—there are reformers working within the industry).

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Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

The use of the shitstick makes even more sense now.....

I promised a pic of the fabled shit stick in the other thread.  I'll try to remember to do that this weekend.

Would it surprise you to learn I'm German too?

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Posted
3 minutes ago, mooseoutfront said:

I promised a pic of the fabled shit stick in the other thread.  I'll try to remember to do that this weekend.

Would it surprise you to learn I'm German too?

Nein.

Posted

@safe sex we're basically on the same page.  I'm specifically talking about reputable, at least as reputable as you can be in that industry, porn studios.  I don't include dark web, gonzo type stuff as reputable.  There is always going to be a market for that shit, and if someone is willing to pay for it there will be producers.   Capitalism at it's worst.  Reminds me of the mythical snuff films whispered about in my youth.  

I'm just all about consenting adults letting their freak flags fly.

Enough with the derail.

Fuck Trump

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Posted
2 hours ago, mooseoutfront said:

Appreciate the reply.

I find the bolded part of your response the most interesting.

My wife and I run with a interesting crowd, both back in Texas before we moved to Alaska and up here too.  The kink scene is very widespread.  I personally know several women who love being treated like "dirty fucking whores." Women who are turned on by and get off on everything you listed as aberrant sexual behavior.  I know this because I've spoken to them about it after the scene and the aftercare were over.  We've gone to house parties and witnessed Dom/Sub interactions that neither my wife nor I could fathom, but it's not meant for us to understand.  That's between the Dom and the Sub.  As long as everyone is a consenting adult, and I'm assuming that if you are on a movie set getting paid to perform those acts (if not, then that's a different discussion) you are, then who is anyone else to say what should or shouldn't be put on the market for others to consume?

image.jpeg.1a922eee48778fb5b5cacbca396c6cf6.jpeg

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Posted
5 hours ago, safe sex said:

You must have missed every post where I refer to myself as a dyke. 

I have a friend who describes herself the same way. While relating a story this friend told me, my wife asked about the friend. I said, “You remember the woman who described herself as a dyke?” Well, our oldest heard this comment, and came in, full of pique.”YOU CAN’T SAY THAT!” I defended my words as coming from my friend’s self description. “SHE CAN SAY THAT, YOU CANNOT!”

Years went by, and the event came up in a conversation between daughter and I. She said she had been overly dramatic, but I was glad to know that the use of that term, by a cis male, offended some people, and I have avoided it since.

I never told my friend about the exchange, nor asked if my words would have offended her. But, I’ll ask you, SS, would you have been offended by my parroting your own words?

Posted
3 hours ago, mooseoutfront said:

We've gone to house parties and witnessed Dom/Sub interactions that neither my wife nor I could fathom, but it's not meant for us to understand.  That's between the Dom and the Sub.  As long as everyone is a consenting adult, and I'm assuming that if you are on a movie set getting paid to perform those acts (if not, then that's a different discussion) you are, then who is anyone else to say what should or shouldn't be put on the market for others to consume?

We’re there bowls at the door with a bunch of car keys in them?

Posted
8 hours ago, mooseoutfront said:

Honest question...What is non-exploitative porn, trans or otherwise? 

Whatever it is, let’s just not talk about step-moms and step-sisters being stuck in dryers or under the sink.

No Way Reaction GIF

Posted
15 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

We’re there bowls at the door with a bunch of car keys in them?

No bowls at the door.  The swapping went on at the party.  The exhibitionists put on a show for the voyeurs.  Sensory overload.

Posted
No bowls at the door.  The swapping went on at the party.  The exhibitionists put on a show for the voyeurs.  Sensory overload.

“And that was the last Wichita Falls Ladies Sewing Circle potluck I ever went to.”






Who am I kidding, I’d go back every month. If just for Ms. Wallace’s pimento cheese sandwiches.





And the sex show.
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Posted
42 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


“And that was the last Wichita Falls Ladies Sewing Circle potluck I ever went to.”






Who am I kidding, I’d go back every month. If just for Ms. Wallace’s pimento cheese sandwiches.





And the sex show.

I just hope you don't defile the fondue.  

Posted
I have a friend who describes herself the same way. While relating a story this friend told me, my wife asked about the friend. I said, “You remember the woman who described herself as a dyke?” Well, our oldest heard this comment, and came in, full of pique.”YOU CAN’T SAY THAT!” I defended my words as coming from my friend’s self description. “SHE CAN SAY THAT, YOU CANNOT!”
Years went by, and the event came up in a conversation between daughter and I. She said she had been overly dramatic, but I was glad to know that the use of that term, by a cis male, offended some people, and I have avoided it since.
I never told my friend about the exchange, nor asked if my words would have offended her. But, I’ll ask you, SS, would you have been offended by my parroting your own words?
I have a lot of lesbian friends and clients, and a few gay friends. I treat all potentially offensive words as off limits unless I'm in the group the slur targets. So I might bitch about the kraut at the office, or make a pollock joke, but I'm not going to fire off a n bomb, fag, Dyke etc.
Why should I require others to decipher if I'm being funny or cruel.
However imo members of groups that are targeted by those words have every right to demystify or destigmatize those words by using them. And they often do so hilariously- see Dave Chappelle with the n-word. A white dude is never making that work, so just leave it alone.

Props to you sir for asking questions and actively trying to be thoughtful.
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Posted
No bowls at the door.  The swapping went on at the party.  The exhibitionists put on a show for the voyeurs.  Sensory overload.
All the swinger's I've ever known were not people I'd want to see naked- picts to prove me wrong?
Posted
5 hours ago, mooseoutfront said:

Appreciate the reply.

I find the bolded part of your response the most interesting.

My wife and I run with a interesting crowd, both back in Texas before we moved to Alaska and up here too.  The kink scene is very widespread.  I personally know several women who love being treated like "dirty fucking whores." Women who are turned on by and get off on everything you listed as aberrant sexual behavior.  I know this because I've spoken to them about it after the scene and the aftercare were over.  We've gone to house parties and witnessed Dom/Sub interactions that neither my wife nor I could fathom, but it's not meant for us to understand.  That's between the Dom and the Sub.  As long as everyone is a consenting adult, and I'm assuming that if you are on a movie set getting paid to perform those acts (if not, then that's a different discussion) you are, then who is anyone else to say what should or shouldn't be put on the market for others to consume?

1fbf1734-8dcf-471e-ab63-a7dad6cc0f48_tex

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Posted
5 hours ago, mooseoutfront said:

Appreciate the reply.

I find the bolded part of your response the most interesting.

My wife and I run with an interesting crowd, both back in Texas before we moved to Alaska and up here too.  The kink scene is very widespread.  I personally know several women who love being treated like "dirty fucking whores." Women who are turned on by and get off on everything you listed as aberrant sexual behavior.  I know this because I've spoken to them about it after the scene and the aftercare were over.  We've gone to house parties and witnessed Dom/Sub interactions that neither my wife nor I could fathom, but it's not meant for us to understand.  That's between the Dom and the Sub.  As long as everyone is a consenting adult, and I'm assuming that if you are on a movie set getting paid to perform those acts (if not, then that's a different discussion) you are, then who is anyone else to say what should or shouldn't be put on the market for others to consume?

Alaska just keeps getting more and more interesting. 

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