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Toddler Falls Out of Cruise Ship Window

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2 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Was he drunk?  I don't know if I agree with charging him, but I also don't agree with the cruise line being on the hook.  I guess if a toddler is dead someone has to be at fault?  

I know this was posted mostly in jest, but it all too often reflects the thinking behind so many things subsequent to a horrible accident.

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1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There doesn't seem to be a clear consensus on when to charge an adult when a child dies. We seem to universally want to execute someone for leaving a child in a hot car but let a kid fall from a window or run into a parking lot, and we want to let the parent off since they're grieving. Personally when I think someone is negligent based on some level of reason, their grief should have zero impact on the decision. They can grieve in prison just as much as at home.

By the same token, what is the need to punish them?  Are they a risk to society?  Are we afraid that "they're going to think it's ok" to do this or repeat this kind of action?

In the case of a hot car, I think we tend to believe that the negligence there is a special kind of stupid, usually occasioned by the parent's convenience rather than being in the nature of a really unfortunate occurrence.

I think there are no bright lines on this and there shouldn't be.  And we especially don't need to invent any new crimes for it.

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34 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I'd say that the quality of posts in this thread has really fallen off

Well, there was a window of opportunity, but it just seemed to have slipped thru our fingers...

 

I'm going to Hell, and I don't even believe in it.

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9 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Grandpa charged with negligent homicide:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/us/toddler-cruise-ship-death-grandfather-charged/index.html

My cynical side wonders if the family immediately discussing lawsuits against the cruise line helped contribute to this outcome.

Don't believe it would actually assist the cruise line much.  They'd be arguing grandpa's negligence was a supervening cause (or major contributory/comparative negligence percentage) either way.  A conviction, if it were to go to trial, might assist that, but it's not a slam dunk.

Now, if the cruise line were able to not only affect the prosecutor bringing the charges, but also dismissal or a favorable plea in return for dismissal or favorable settlement of the civil case, that might be a different story.  I'm not a big fan of prosecutors, but that goes beyond the pale.  It is Puerto Rico, though  . . . . .

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9 hours ago, Texas_Rocks said:

Many of the predictions in this thread have missed the boat. emoji41.png

Was it ever worth it?
Was there all that much to gain?
Well, we knew we missed the boat
And we'd already missed the plane
We didn't read the invite
We just dance at our wake
All our favorites were playing
So we could shake, shake, shake, shake, shake

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3 hours ago, TexasEd said:

Where were the allegations of drunk grandpa?  I did not see it in the CNN story.

Gramps was on a cruise with his family. I think it's just assumed.

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3 hours ago, TexasEd said:

Where were the allegations of drunk grandpa?  I did not see it in the CNN story.

Gramps was on a cruise with his family. I think it's just assumed.

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15 hours ago, Texas_Rocks said:

Many of the predictions in this thread have missed the boat. emoji41.png

They fell flat, but that's what happens when you carelessly bounce ideas to see what sticks.

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On 7/23/2019 at 10:52 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Like I keep saying, Americans love to "work backward" from a horrible and tragic incident to assess blame.

 

Witness the 39,324 posts after Texas loses a football game for proof of this.

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Either I don’t have a good visualization of what the ship and windows look like, or he leaned out through the window that he claims he thought was there, than picked her up and put her right through. 
Is there something beyond the spot where the camera loses them?

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Umm yeah, he goes up to the window he states he didn’t know was missing or open and proceeds to lean out it for a lonnng time before he holds the toddler out the window for a long time prior to dripping her.

I get it. Definitely blame deflection and it’s natural due to guilt but the family overplayed their hand by suing the cruise line.

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I’ll spoiler the tweet with video, if you’re on Tapa & don’t want to see it just don’t press play. 

Spoiler

 

The audio is some Puerto Rican reporter. 

Edited by spystud13

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The grandpa is being offering no jail time if he admits he was at fault? I realize that the family has a lawsuit against the cruise line but no jail can’t be turned down when there is video of you practically making the incident look intentional.

 

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9 hours ago, Lhorn said:

^^^Good but no way I’m watching a video where I might see a toddler falling to her death.

This. I have a three year old and a two and a half month old. There's no way I'm watching a video of somebody dropping a toddler out of a cruise ship window unless I am on the jury that decides if he is guilty or not.

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Some high quality security cameras that ship has there. 
Este Abuelo is uno pendejo grande. 

Edited by cabowabo

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I’ve been on RC ships 3-4 times. Usually on that deck the windows are blocking the wind so when you are near one of the open slots you know it.
She slipped out of his hands. He knows that and is remorseful about it. This should be the end of the story but unfortunately it isn’t. Sad deal all around.

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10 minutes ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

I’ve been on RC ships 3-4 times. Usually on that deck the windows are blocking the wind so when you are near one of the open slots you know it.
She slipped out of his hands. He knows that and is remorseful about it. This should be the end of the story but unfortunately it isn’t. Sad deal all around.

Well, if he knew it and was actually remorseful he should have owned it. That's what people who are remorseful normally do. Instead they played the blame game on the cruise ship. I'm not one to defend cruise lines because they certainly have their faults but in this case it irks the shit out of me.

Being at fault for someone's death, whether your sad about it or not should have some sort of consequences. Denying fault and accusing others, whether that be a cruise line or another person should increase the penalty of those consequences. I'm not sure exactly what those penalties should be and believe it to be situational but he is apparently being offered a free pass just to simply own it.

He doesn't, fuck him.

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Só did something trip the grandfather? Is that when the girl fell or did she fall before and that’s when it hit him? Cause like 10 seconds before the guy trips, he or the granddaughter pull back into the ship, then he leans out farther. I initially thought that was the moment she fell. 

sad situation all around but seems like only one person to blame here (unless the dude was tripped, can’t tell and nothing has been mentioned like that at all). 

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2 hours ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

I’ve been on RC ships 3-4 times. Usually on that deck the windows are blocking the wind so when you are near one of the open slots you know it.
She slipped out of his hands. He knows that and is remorseful about it. This should be the end of the story but unfortunately it isn’t. Sad deal all around.

My thought after watching the video is how can he not notice the window is open with the breeze and outside noises coming at him for 30 seconds? Colorblindness doesn't affect other senses, does it? What do I know, I'm not a Chiropractor. It's obviously not orchestrated because the toddler would have to be in on it by running up to that one open window.

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2 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

This. I have a three year old and a two and a half month old. There's no way I'm watching a video of somebody dropping a toddler out of a cruise ship window unless I am on the jury that decides if he is guilty or not.

The video doesn't show that.  It was shot from the inside at a 90 degree angle on a flip phone and shows a couple of darker pixels bend down, then raise up with a lighter pixel, then lean into the window sill.  Then spends about a minute there, then a slight movement by the couple of dark pixels, and the clip ends.

About 1/10th the picture quality of a late 80's scrambled HBO channel.

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looks like he michael jackson'ed the baby off the balcony/window. and yea, fuck him for trying to deflect the blame. he done fucked up. totally avoidable accident.

 

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1 minute ago, Tailgate said:

True tragedy for everyone. Starting to wonder how much alcohol may have contributed. The awareness level was not there...obviously.

I can't imagine how fucking drunk I'd have to be to dangle my kid out a window.

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3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I can't imagine how fucking drunk I'd have to be to dangle my kid out a window.

Easy.  Think of how drunk you'd need to be to be on a cruise ship, and subtract a drink or two.

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2 hours ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Is it him or the daughter and her family making the accusations against the cruise line?

Generally speaking, only immediate family would have standing to bring a suit against the cruise line.

And even if grandpa admits fault, there is still the possibility of maintaining a suit against the cruise line.  Depends on the applicable law.  I suppose this would be an admiralty case.

gold_fringe_flag.jpg

 

Edited by TwiceHorn

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5 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

The video doesn't show that.  It was shot from the inside at a 90 degree angle on a flip phone and shows a couple of darker pixels bend down, then raise up with a lighter pixel, then lean into the window sill.  Then spends about a minute there, then a slight movement by the couple of dark pixels, and the clip ends.

About 1/10th the picture quality of a late 80's scrambled HBO channel.

I thought I was gonna need a RealPlayer to watch this video.

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5 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

The video doesn't show that.  It was shot from the inside at a 90 degree angle on a flip phone and shows a couple of darker pixels bend down, then raise up with a lighter pixel, then lean into the window sill.  Then spends about a minute there, then a slight movement by the couple of dark pixels, and the clip ends.

About 1/10th the picture quality of a late 80's scrambled HBO channel.

Which I did fap to.

Scrambled HBO.. well.. scrambled Skinemax but still. My point stands.

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5 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Easy.  Think of how drunk you'd need to be to be on a cruise ship, and subtract a drink or two.

I was on the Port A gambling "cruise ship" once.

There were not enough drinks. They didn't run out, but I severely damaged their Jamison supply.

I'm sober now, so... I don't even really want to think about a cruise ship much think about being on one. 

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Só did something trip the grandfather? Is that when the girl fell or did she fall before and that’s when it hit him? Cause like 10 seconds before the guy trips, he or the granddaughter pull back into the ship, then he leans out farther. I initially thought that was the moment she fell. 
sad situation all around but seems like only one person to blame here (unless the dude was tripped, can’t tell and nothing has been mentioned like that at all). 
I watched an interview he did and I'm going off of memory here but I think he said something like he fell to his knees when he let go of her. So probably a few seconds before you see this dip he does, she was already gone.

I don't really get his excuse at all. Nobody has any business dangling a child from a high place. Even if there was a lower deck, she probably still would have died. Or did he think there was just an extension of the balcony he was on on the other side of the window?

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It fucking burns me up they are suing RC. They have 0% responsibility. It's all on dumbass drunk granddad and he should do time. No oopsies.

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The dumbass leaned out of the window first, no way he can say he thought there was glass there.

That being said, it appears in the video that the sill of the window is really fucking low. Old boy hinges at the hips when he leans out over it, which would make it way lower than 48" (average cruise ship safety rail height). Having this condition in a bar area 100 feet up in the air seems like a real bad idea.

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8 hours ago, Tailgate said:

Starting to wonder how much alcohol may have contributed. 

boat bar tender GIF

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3 hours ago, RPM said:

It fucking burns me up they are suing RC. They have 0% responsibility. It's all on dumbass drunk granddad and he should do time. No oopsies.

You don't know much about lawyers do you 

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1 minute ago, Dennis Taylor said:

You don't know much about lawyers do you 

Oh, I do and thus me being pissed.

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