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Vaping Sickness "epidemic"

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7 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I've never vaped nicotine, only THC.  None that I've ever tried had invisible exhale.  Now, it isn't as heavy as I've seen from nicotine vapes but it's definitely there. 

Chemically, I'm sure most "resin" contains some water, which is going to make steam.  Smoke has steam in it too, which helps make it visible.

I don't think you could easily eliminate visible "exhaust" from vaping nicotine due to its nature.  Superheated steam (>>210F) is invisible, but I don't think that's desireable.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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2 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

You're doing it wrong

Must be. The exhaust isn't invisible it's just a helluva lot less than blueberry flavored, nicotine vape pens.

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1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Why has the exhaust from every THC vape I've ever seen been invisible?

 

You gotta push the little button on the side until the blue light comes on or you aren't really vaping....A friend told me that.

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I suppose if you "hold the smoke" long enough, any visible anything will dissipate.  Vaping apparatus has the advantage of not "smoking" the entire time it's lit.

It surprises me that the combustion byproducts of marijuana don't cause more problems than has been publicized.  I'm consistently astounded that heavy pot-smoking can be compatible with being in good CV shape as required by many athletes.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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Thc vapes are made for discretion, but you can do huge clouds if you want. If your battery is adjustable, I think it's lower Temps that produce bigger clouds. Normal ecigs are pretty similar with the amount of cloud, a juul doesn't have much. The huge cloud people want the huge cloud. 

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There is also the issue of the feel. The bigger cloud feels more like smoking, so people who are switching from cigarettes often like it more. There used to be a lot of folks modding vape pens to have sub ohm coils to produce a lot of vapor. Probably still is.

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On 9/4/2019 at 2:22 PM, Iceman said:

dumb question amnesty:  Do the tobacco companies own the mainstream vape companies?

 

On 9/4/2019 at 2:26 PM, MadBurgerMaker said:

Well, totally replacing regular smokes with weed smokes isn't going to ever happen, but in the way more cool world we're talking about, why wouldn't they disclose any added nicotine?  The packs would have all the warnings that they've already got and all that. 

Hell, everything also gets that...what Prop 65 (?) California thing about causing cancer anyway.

 

E:

At least some are.  I don't think the Juul company is one of them, but there's one called Blue or Blu or something like that that is owned by..RJ Reynolds? Imperial Brands, for example.

Read today Altria (Phillip Mo.) owns 35% of Juul. 

On 9/10/2019 at 7:14 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

Vaping hasn't been around long enough for you to know whether it's more or less harmful long term than smoking cigarettes or chewing tobacco. What's the longest study done on the subject? Has a study been performed by anyone other than the manufacturers of this the latest nicotine delivery system?

Long term? No, it would obviously be inconclusive simply due to the novelty of vaping. Short term? Vaping has a lot less side effects and nastiness than cigarettes. Just ask literally anyone that's made the switch or done both. It's like sipping on a glass of red wine versus ripping a shot of tequila. 

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God this is stupid. If you want to take something off the market that destroys kids’ health in a targeted fashion, take a look at Coca Cola.

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You can regulate the flavors in e-cigs, but it does no good if that regulated concentrate is being placed in inferior cheap carts made from China. The coils turn black, gunk up and burn out quickly. The standards for cartridges are not regulated. It’s like limiting the nicotine in regular cigarettes but not regulating the paper it is rolled in. 

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18 minutes ago, MrBig said:

You can regulate the flavors in e-cigs, but it does no good if that regulated concentrate is being placed in inferior cheap carts made from China. The coils turn black, gunk up and burn out quickly. The standards for cartridges are not regulated. It’s like limiting the nicotine in regular cigarettes but not regulating the paper it is rolled in. 

For a moment there, I was worried you were going to go off on a tangent about no parking signs.

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5 hours ago, Celery Man said:

If you want to take something off the market that destroys kids’ health in a targeted fashion, take a look at Coca Cola.

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6 hours ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

I miss cigarettes and tequila. What's that say about me? 

Your doctors are probably thanking you?

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6 hours ago, Celery Man said:

God this is stupid. If you want to take something off the market that destroys kids’ health in a targeted fashion, take a look at Coca Cola.

It is 100% big tobacco driven, I garantee.

This kind of makes me sad.  One can't completely argue against some regulation of it.  The problem is that regulation by the FDA involves FDA approval, which itself costs several million dollars in fees, and multiple millions of dollars to prepare data for.  The FDA is a real problem and I don't know how to fix it.

And, of course it is legislative priority eleventy billion, but who will think of the children?  *rme*

Edited by TwiceHorn

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On 9/11/2019 at 7:33 AM, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

There is also the issue of the feel. The bigger cloud feels more like smoking, so people who are switching from cigarettes often like it more. There used to be a lot of folks modding vape pens to have sub ohm coils to produce a lot of vapor. Probably still is.

That's me! The coating and not having the feeling of trying to get a draw through something that feels like a sponge soaked in concrete. No, I don't know how to blow smoke rings or any of that hipster shit, nor do I stand in crowded public spaces blowing the shit on everyone. In fact, I try only to vape at home and on the road specifically so I'm not blowing massive amounts of vapor on someone. But these fucking kids these days... no respect!

And while I'm on my rant, all this recent uproar seems to have to do weed cartridges. Only one I've heard was nicotine pods. You want to ban that shit or regulate it, fine by me. But don't tell me the justification for going after the industry is because the flavors target minors. Bullshit. You trying to tell me adults don't want to vape flavors like fruit loops, chocolate milk or pink lemonade? And please don't try and say tobacco flavor could still be available. That shit is more gross than it sounds. 

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Apple News pushed me a story today about a 17 year old that contracted pneumonia that seemed to come on as she stopped vaping.  Who wouldn't blame vaping because of that basic description.  But then you find out that she's been vaping for 2 years and her parents were accepting of it as they thought it was healthier than her addiction to smoking at 15. Feel bad for the young woman that her parents weren't too good at parenting.

I have no idea how dangerous vaping can be but it can't be good to continuously push chemicals or particles into your lungs. I do think that e-cigarettes should be regulated at the same level as cigarettes regardless if nicotine is involved. However as the above story points out, laws aren't going to stop someone that wants to to smoke.

But I do see this as most likely being an overreaction by parents. Stop trying to get the world to stop vaping and worry about your own kid first. We don't need hearings and an over-reach of govt here. 

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3 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

 

And while I'm on my rant, all this recent uproar seems to have to do weed cartridges. Only one I've heard was nicotine pods. You want to ban that shit or regulate it, fine by me. But don't tell me the justification for going after the industry is because the flavors target minors. Bullshit. You trying to tell me adults don't want to vape flavors like fruit loops, chocolate milk or pink lemonade? And please don't try and say tobacco flavor could still be available. That shit is more gross than it sounds. 

Don't know anything about this site/organization, or science for that matter, but this seems to explain it somewhat. 

https://www.acsh.org/news/2019/09/10/everything-goes-pot-myths-are-driving-fda-cdc-vaping-policy-14278?fbclid=IwAR0dO0bpv7HjINXcnGIrZ_id_itvJoH006h8FyWcsMg6ubckL0Dr6ovAMlU

https://www.acsh.org/news/2019/09/10/can-chemistry-explain-vaping-lung-14277

 

 

 

There have been several stories in the media recently about vapers who either became sick or died. What's going on? A lot of different things that are all being (improperly) lumped together.

In one instance, a vaper suffered a collapsed lung. But as Dr. Chuck Dinerstein explained, that has nothing to do with vaping. Several hundred others have developed severe respiratory problems, and five have died. The vast majority appear linked to vaping THC-infused oil or some other product purchased off the street.

THC is not soluble in water, so it has to be dissolved in oil. The oil of choice is vitamin E acetate. That sounds nice -- we add vitamin E to hand lotion -- but vitamin E is meant to go in your stomach, not your lungs. Inhaled oil can trigger lipoid pneumonia. (For the chemistry behind this phenomenon, read my colleague Dr. Josh Bloom's article.) Similarly, products purchased from the local black market may contain chemicals that are unsafe.

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So I wonder how long till California and the other states that have legalized it start cracking down on cartridges

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1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

 it can't be good to continuously push chemicals or particles into your lungs

it kinda sucks, but it beats the alternative

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4 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

I try only to vape at home and on the road specifically so I'm not blowing massive amounts of vapor on someone. But these fucking kids these days... no respect!

There was a guy at Barton Creek Mall, right when vaping started to hit mainstream, and he would walk around his kiosk, selling all things e-cigarette/vaping, blowing out huge amounts of vapor, telling all of the passers-by that it was safer than cigarettes, would help you quit smoking, and they should try it.   He was arrogant as hell, and would get up close to people, so they'd have to veer around his clouds.

 Fucking moron didn't realize that he was harming his business and the image of vaping - you're average soccer mom doesn't see some spiffy demonstration of "hey, this is better than cigarettes", she saw some asshole blowing something out that was potentially harming her children, and chances are there were dozens (or more) of moms bitching to the mall folks every day until he got booted.

4 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

And while I'm on my rant, all this recent uproar seems to have to do weed cartridges. Only one I've heard was nicotine pods. You want to ban that shit or regulate it, fine by me. But don't tell me the justification for going after the industry is because the flavors target minors. Bullshit. You trying to tell me adults don't want to vape flavors like fruit loops, chocolate milk or pink lemonade? And please don't try and say tobacco flavor could still be available. That shit is more gross than it sounds. 

Yeah, this is not about minors.  Lobbyists rule the day once more.

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3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

There was a guy at Barton Creek Mall, right when vaping started to hit mainstream, and he would walk around his kiosk, selling all things e-cigarette/vaping, blowing out huge amounts of vapor, telling all of the passers-by that it was safer than cigarettes, would help you quit smoking, and they should try it.   He was arrogant as hell, and would get up close to people, so they'd have to veer around his clouds.

 Fucking moron didn't realize that he was harming his business and the image of vaping - you're average soccer mom doesn't see some spiffy demonstration of "hey, this is better than cigarettes", she saw some asshole blowing something out that was potentially harming her children, and chances are there were dozens (or more) of moms bitching to the mall folks every day until he got booted.

That's sad. That's also been my experience with literally every vape shop I've ever gone to, as well. Just because I vape doesn't mean I want you blowing that shit all over me. That's one of the reasons (other being significant savings) I buy everything online. 

As far as the quitting smoking aspect, I'm a true believer in it for what it's done for me and those around me. Almost to the point of pissing off any smoker I know or encounter. DGAF. My mother (40+ years of smoking) struggled to quit. She was reluctant at first but once I convinced her to stop buying cigs and only vape, she quickly picked up on it and in just a year and a half stopped smoking and vaping altogether. 

As others have pointed out, we don't know the ramifications of vaping long term. I know I'd like to eventually quit one day and it won't be easy. Vaping is an alternative, a substitution of smoking. The habit itself is harder to break psychologically than what's actually in the substance. But for now, all I know is I don't have a hard time breathing in the morning, stink, and can smell and taste better. Plus the money I spend a month is literally a fifth of what I used to spend on cigs because I'm only buying vape juice. Smoking cigarettes will be a thing you hardly ever see again in another couple of decades. It'll be like seeing someone wearing a beeper today. 

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I’m not into bans. But if we’re going to ban something, maybe we should ban cigarettes first. You know, the things that have killed millions of people.

 

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2 hours ago, housious said:

I’m not into bans. But if we’re going to ban something, maybe we should ban cigarettes first. You know, the things that have killed millions of people.

 

So cute, you obviously don't understand how lobbyists give large amounts of money for re election campaigns.

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On 9/15/2019 at 12:45 PM, SubliminalHorn said:

So have they narrowed it down to if all THC vape cartridges can be a cause or if only black market cartridges?

in the same boat. asking for a friend

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On 9/15/2019 at 12:45 PM, SubliminalHorn said:

So have they narrowed it down to if all THC vape cartridges can be a cause or if only black market cartridges?

This is not a good sign. Bowie isn't exactly in a metropolitan area.

https://www.timesrecordnews.com/story/news/local/2019/09/16/bowie-pd-counterfeit-juuls-seized-local-business/2341821001/

This national trend came home to Bowie, Texas, this week as local police executed a search warrant at a local store seizing some $2,600 worth of counterfeit Juul products sent from China.

Police seized a total of 142 counterfeit pods, including 11 chargers, one device and one starter kit for e-cigarettes.

Estimated value of these counterfeit items based on the manufactured suggested price was $2,687.60.

Along with the Juul products police seized 16 packages of CDB oil without the appropriate labeling. Cannabidiol oil has become the hot new product in states that have legalized medical marijuana.

This case would fall into a state jail felony.

“There were no arrests, but I anticipate that will come shortly. The owner of the store, Anam Abbasi, was cooperative during the search. He denied any knowledge about the counterfeit products,” said Hanson.

 

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So let me sum this up.  A very few people getting sick off of counterfeit/illegal vape juice so ban it all.  Is that right? 

Edited by tjhooker

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1 minute ago, tjhooker said:

So let me sum this up.  A very few people getting sick off of counterfeit/illegal vape juice so ban it all?  Is that right? 

giphy.gif

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5 hours ago, tjhooker said:

So let me sum this up.  A very few people getting sick off of counterfeit/illegal vape juice so ban it all.  Is that right? 

Specifically weed. Even more specifically, weed cartridges. I've yet to see anything nicotine related that wasn't later reported to be thc. 

So yeah, ban it all because a bunch of teens are walking around blowing clouds of vapor. Oh and like 6 people died so it's clearly a national crisis/epidemic. 

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For all of the vapers in this thread dismissing parental concerns (especially those without school-age children), be aware that pressure for legislation is going to grow.Per survey from U of Michigan, "About 25% of 12th graders in 2019 reported using nicotine-containing vaping products within 30 days of taking one of the surveys. That figure was about 21% in the 2018 edition of the same survey and 11% in 2017. Nearly 12% of 12th graders in 2019 reported using nicotine-containing e-cigarettes on a daily basis (defined as use during 20 or more days in the last 30.)"

It's awesome that vaping has helped many of you transition off of cigarettes, but you aren't helping the public perception of vaping by dismissing growing use among kids.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

Because of the possible 500+ lung illnesses linked to vaping, Walmart will stop selling e-cigs.  Well, after they exhaust there current stock - which may be January.  Traditional tobacco products will still be available.

I don't think Walmart is stopping because of negative press or concerns about consumer health. I think it is because Walmart doesn't want to be exposed to major lawsuits. Attorneys won't go after Walmart for selling tobacco but they may go after Walmart for selling vaping products that lead to injury and/or death.

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i'm so confused...is it thc or nicotine? legit or just bootleg product? only catridges or also vaping 'juice'? if all the cases are linked to bootleg thc cartridges, why are they even discussing legit nicotine bans? or are they only talking about flavors??

very hard to get a clear picture.

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It seems to be the vitamin e acetate in thc vapes, which is a lipid and is totally no bueno for lungs. 

There is a lot of misinformation now, deliberately, from the who will think of the children crowd and big tobacco. 

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On 9/20/2019 at 9:24 AM, Serak The Preparer said:

For all of the vapers in this thread dismissing parental concerns (especially those without school-age children), be aware that pressure for legislation is going to grow.Per survey from U of Michigan, "About 25% of 12th graders in 2019 reported using nicotine-containing vaping products within 30 days of taking one of the surveys. That figure was about 21% in the 2018 edition of the same survey and 11% in 2017. Nearly 12% of 12th graders in 2019 reported using nicotine-containing e-cigarettes on a daily basis (defined as use during 20 or more days in the last 30.)"

It's awesome that vaping has helped many of you transition off of cigarettes, but you aren't helping the public perception of vaping by dismissing growing use among kids.

 

 

I don't think anyone is dismissing a parent's concern, at least that I've seen. 

Honestly they should just ban disposable e cigarettes. All the other shit requires an investment of at least $50 with maintenance of coils being another $10 or so every 2 weeks (for people like me who do rebuildables, maybe 3 months.) You add in purchasing juice and it's probably too many steps most kids will want to mess with. 

13 hours ago, mchookem said:

i'm so confused...is it thc or nicotine? legit or just bootleg product? only catridges or also vaping 'juice'? if all the cases are linked to bootleg thc cartridges, why are they even discussing legit nicotine bans? or are they only talking about flavors??

very hard to get a clear picture.

THC cartridges only. But because vaping has been a fad for awhile for teens, people are using the deaths from the cartridges to go after e cigarettes and products. It's fucking ridiculous. 

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On 9/12/2019 at 12:37 PM, Smax said:

So I wonder how long till California and the other states that have legalized it start cracking down on cartridges

Only if they're plastic...

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