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Vic Mackey

30 For 30 On Michael Jordan: The Last Dance

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3 minutes ago, Dr Fear said:

They gonna dig into his first "retirement" to play baseball?

I thought the same thing but I am sure they will gloss over that time period and exactly why it happened. I'd be surprised if they went into much detail about that.

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22 minutes ago, Dr Fear said:

They gonna dig into his first "retirement" to play baseball?

Will likely be the last true superstar/celebrity to broker a deal to keep the media silent - a deal w the media itself.  Pretty crazy.  

Edited by ChiTownDoc

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7 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Will likely be the last true superstar/celebrity to broker a deal to keep the media silent - a deal w the media itself.  Pretty crazy.  

No way in hell that could happen these days with 24/7 news reporting, social media and the likes of TMZ. 

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man basketball was awesome back in the 90s. Rivalries, none of this buddy recruiting buddies, gold necklaces, NBA on NBC triple headers on sundays, watching the Knicks vs Michael and Reggie

 

Still love BBall, but its a different game. Better players but it was cooler back then

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90's basketball was painful to watch.  You had good teams where no one could shoot except maybe just one player.  (The Knicks come to mind.)

Most of those teams would get run off the floor now.  I liked the attitudes better, though.  They all hated each other and made it a better game.

Edited by Aqua Buddha

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16 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

man basketball was awesome back in the 90s. Rivalries, none of this buddy recruiting buddies, gold necklaces, NBA on NBC triple headers on sundays, watching the Knicks vs Michael and Reggie

 

Still love BBall, but its a different game. Better players but it was cooler back then

Can't say I disagree (though some of that may be nostalgia).  I can only read so many stories about the perfect peanut butter and jelly locker room spread, sleep experts on every team, hyperbolic chambers, analytic experts determining minutes and lineups, and who liked what Instagram post before my eyes glaze over.  They are better conditioned, more talented, more athletic, higher skilled players today--and I probably enjoy watching the aesthetic on-court product now more than ever--but they could use a little more rawness.

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90's was still the big man/low-post era. 2000's was the transitioning period, because the bigs were from Euro league/foreign and majority could/can shoot. Which has led to everyone in love with 3's in present day. So, of course the 90's teams would get smoked becuase of the rules imposed in 2004.

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The 90s players are not all that different athletically from today.  Yes, every generation gets a little bigger, faster, stronger and better trained ... but the big difference is really the before and after gnerations of athletes that had been brought up with consistent weight training and the good PEDs.  That cut off line is probably the very late 80s, or at least that seems to be when relatively average looking guys starting disappearing from the major pro sports in favor of behemoths.

I agree the style of play is better now, as the 90s was isolation and legalized fouling, basically.  But the attitude was so much better back then, and that means a lot.  You can be entertained as a casual observer now, but back then you could actually get into it as a fanatic.

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Nothing better than the NBA on NBC on Saturday and Sundays. Games at 11 and 2:30 and IF you had tnt you got to watch the evening game. This 8:30pm bullshit for games is dumb.

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2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Can't say I disagree (though some of that may be nostalgia).  I can only read so many stories about the perfect peanut butter and jelly locker room spread, sleep experts on every team, hyperbolic chambers, analytic experts determining minutes and lineups, and who liked what Instagram post before my eyes glaze over.  They are better conditioned, more talented, more athletic, higher skilled players today--and I probably enjoy watching the aesthetic on-court product now more than ever--but they could use a little more rawness.

Better conditioned? Vlade Divac smoked during halftime and still averaged 36 minutes a game. I'd like to see some of today's guys try that. 

Edited by Deej

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3 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:
3 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:
I think a real good rivalry is missing from today's game. Are there any really left?

LeBron vs the west is all I've got.

LeBron vs. everybody

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i've been so fucking bored, i started watching jordan highlights on youtube. there are some great videos of players telling stories about jordan. funny shit. he is the greatest of all time. some of the stories about how ruthless he was to his teammates is surprising. he basically broke rodney mccray.

the best videos are of the dream team. jordan was the dream team. it was his team. he and scotty and somewhat barkley played the olympics like it was an nba series. jordan and scotty busted ass on defense. barkley didn't give a shit about the spirit of the olympics. barkley wanted to dominate people.

damn i miss how good he was.

can't wait for this series. wonder if it'll touch on his dad getting kilt by the mob.

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Tonight at 9pm, ESPN.  Can't wait.  Glad there's a thread already for this.  Jordan is GOAT. Flat out denied a bunch of All Stars world championship games by destroying the league for 6 out of 8 years.  And those two years they didn't win, he was retired.  That's dominance.  

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51 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Tonight at 9pm, ESPN.  Can't wait.  Glad there's a thread already for this.  Jordan is GOAT. Flat out denied a bunch of All Stars world championship games by destroying the league for 6 out of 8 years.  And those two years they didn't win, he was retired.  That's dominance.  

He was only retired for one season.

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What, is there some secret reason for MJ's first retirement?

Always speculation of gambling troubles and even rumors that it led to his dad’s murder. Stern apparently was going to suspend him for a year. Again, all rumors.

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1 minute ago, Stunns38 said:


Retired all of 94 and most of 95

That's still only one season. He played 17 games and a post-season. Let's not gloss over that fact. Dude played and lost, but Jordan stans have always neglected to include 95 in his history. 

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Is this going to be the most watched sporting telecast is broadcast history?

Obviously kidding because non-sports fans won't tune in like they do for the Super Bowl, but got damn is it nice to have some original sports programming.

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25 minutes ago, Kermit said:

That's still only one season. He played 17 games and a post-season. Let's not gloss over that fact. Dude played and lost, but Jordan stans have always neglected to include 95 in his history. 

rockets fan?

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That's still only one season. He played 17 games and a post-season. Let's not gloss over that fact. Dude played and lost, but Jordan stans have always neglected to include 95 in his history. 

Ugh, 1.5 seasons min(82 reg season games). Returned March 95. Can you do math? And yes, we all know he lost to Shaq and Penny which was a better Orlando team. Yada yada.

I would have loved to see a finals with a non-rusty Jordan vs the Rockets. Would have been a tough, nightmarish matchup for the Bulls though.

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5 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Wasn't his "flu game" him being hungover as fuck?

Never heard that rumor. His habit of staying out until 3am, getting a workout in afterward, then getting in people's faces at 9am shootaround was legendary. Think he's one of those "never gets hungover" guys.

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32 minutes ago, Stunns38 said:

Ugh, 1.5 seasons min(82 reg season games). Returned March 95. Can you do math? And yes, we all know he lost to Shaq and Penny which was a better Orlando team. Yada yada.

I would have loved to see a finals with a non-rusty Jordan vs the Rockets. Would have been a tough, nightmarish matchup for the Bulls though.

Now he's rusty. Look, I get the need to prop up certain heroes but I can't figure out this obsession with Lebron and Jordan where it's never their fault when they lose and always their greatness when they win. He came back, played well in fact, and lost. You think that Jordan would've come back at all if he wasn't up to his usual standards? He knew how good he was, and what shape he needed to be in to succeed. He lost. It happens to the best of them. They retooled the next season and had one for the ages. 

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Now he's rusty. Look, I get the need to prop up certain heroes but I can't figure out this obsession with Lebron and Jordan where it's never their fault when they lose and always their greatness when they win. He came back, played well in fact, and lost. You think that Jordan would've come back at all if he wasn't up to his usual standards? He knew how good he was, and what shape he needed to be in to succeed. He lost. It happens to the best of them. They retooled the next season and had one for the ages. 

Shut up, not wasting my time arguing with an idiot who wants to find any reason to argue. STFU. Bitch

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1 hour ago, Kermit said:

That's still only one season. He played 17 games and a post-season. Let's not gloss over that fact. Dude played and lost, but Jordan stans have always neglected to include 95 in his history. 

give me a break. do you really believe that that season/postseason plays out the exact same way if Jordan is a fully committed professional basketball player for the entire season? i sure hope not. 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Now he's rusty. Look, I get the need to prop up certain heroes but I can't figure out this obsession with Lebron and Jordan where it's never their fault when they lose and always their greatness when they win. He came back, played well in fact, and lost. You think that Jordan would've come back at all if he wasn't up to his usual standards? He knew how good he was, and what shape he needed to be in to succeed. He lost. It happens to the best of them. They retooled the next season and had one for the ages. 

Agreed. MJ averaged 31 points on 48% shooting that series against the Magic. He was great. But Orlando had the better team. I've never understood the mindset in the MJ/LeBron/greatest players ever debates to pile up the excuses when they lose (usually some variation of blaming the team), but give them all the credit when they win. It's a team game; it doesn't weaken your argument to admit that. Even a vintage '93 Jordan probably wouldn't have been enough that series.

 

...ok, maybe vintage Jordan pulls it off.

Edited by aggie08

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

give me a break. do you really believe that that season/postseason plays out the exact same way if Jordan is a fully committed professional basketball player for the entire season? i sure hope not. 

As constructed? I don't know. That '95 roster lost some key pieces (Horace Grant) and was in need of a shake-up. The year before, they won 55 games completely without MJ and lost to the Knicks in 7 (who gave the Rockets a hell of a lot more fight in the Finals than the Magic). 

It probably plays out different with a full season of Jordan because they would have won more than 47 games and wouldn't have been the 5 seed, but I don't think they would have been a slam dunk to win it all. That year's Bulls just weren't as good as year's past. Though, with Jordan committed from day 1, they probably would have made more of a financial effort to fill some of those holes.

Edited by aggie08

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Agreed. MJ averaged 31 points on 48% shooting that series against the Magic. He was great. But Orlando had the better team. I've never understood the mindset in the MJ/LeBron/greatest players ever debates to pile up the excuses when they lose (usually some variation of blaming the team), but give them all the credit when they win. It's a team game; it doesn't weaken your argument to admit that. Even a vintage '93 Jordan probably wouldn't have been enough that series.
 
...ok, maybe vintage Jordan pulls it off.

Have you heard that it takes more than 25 games for a team to gel? Not making excuses for Jordan or LeBron and my post above specifically said that the Rockets would be a nightmarish matchup for the Bulls at full strength. Reverting back to aggy there.

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4 minutes ago, Stunns38 said:


Have you heard that it takes more than 25 games for a team to gel? Not making excuses for Jordan or LeBron and my post above specifically said that the Rockets would be a nightmarish matchup for the Bulls at full strength. Reverting back to aggy there.

Yeah man, I wasn't addressing you whatsoever, nor do I particularly care to. Just commenting on Kermit's broader point that does pop up often in NBA discussions.

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Wasn't his "flu game" him being hungover as fuck?

Partying hard in Salt Lake City? Ok


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Yeah man, I wasn't addressing you whatsoever, nor do I particularly care to. Just commenting on Kermit's broader point that does pop up often in NBA discussions.

Got it, understood. I’m a huge Jordan fan being from Chicago but I’m honest enough to know that we most likely wouldn’t have 8-Peated even if MJ never retired the first time...and knew MJ wasn’t perfect and had some faults. The Suns were the best team most of the year in 93 but MJ went MJ (and our unheralded bench) which brings up the point that no one knows what would have happened and we (sports fans/media) need to stop comparing players of different eras.

Looking forward to this series.

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3 minutes ago, bluto said:


Partying hard in Salt Lake City? Ok


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mormon girls like anal. Or so I’m told.

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54 minutes ago, Stunns38 said:


Shut up, not wasting my time arguing with an idiot who wants to find any reason to argue. STFU. Bitch

Bitch please. As if you’ve got anything better to do after getting furloughed from Friday’s.

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On 5/15/2018 at 9:29 AM, Rockethorn1978 said:

Can't remember all of it. wasn't it gambling? 

It's a conspiracy theory. There's no actual evidence supporting it AFAIK.

I think Jordan took his ball and went home because he had nothing left in the tank.  Three straight years of a grueling schedule, the toll his dad's death took on him, all those nights staying out till 4am gambling, all those rounds of golf, etc. He was just physically and mentally exhausted.

My conspiracy theory is Jordan retired because he knew he couldn't win 4 straight, and he was so competitive he would rather retire than lose.

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1 hour ago, bluto said:


Partying hard in Salt Lake City? Ok


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who says you have to be out partying to get a hangover? 

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4 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Wasn't his "flu game" him being hungover as fuck?

 

2 hours ago, bluto said:


Partying hard in Salt Lake City? Ok


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

25 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Who says you have to be out partying to get a hangover? 

Vegas is about an hour flight time from SLC.  That was one of the rumors at the time.

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2 hours ago, Stunns38 said:


Got it, understood. I’m a huge Jordan fan being from Chicago but I’m honest enough to know that we most likely wouldn’t have 8-Peated even if MJ never retired the first time...and knew MJ wasn’t perfect and had some faults. The Suns were the best team most of the year in 93 but MJ went MJ (and our unheralded bench) which brings up the point that no one knows what would have happened and we (sports fans/media) need to stop comparing players of different eras.

Looking forward to this series.

I hope the series puts to rest the idea that they could have won 8 in a row.  That team was on fumes at the end of the '98 playoffs.     

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3 hours ago, Stunns38 said:

Shut up, not wasting my time arguing with an idiot who wants to find any reason to argue. STFU. Bitch

Not invested in this debate or even this thread, but wanted to commend this post for being one of the douche-iest messages ever set before a trusting public. Like, there's just so much fake macho here, it had me laughing for a few minutes. Well done, sir, and rep paid.

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I hope the series puts to rest the idea that they could have won 8 in a row.  That team was on fumes at the end of the '98 playoffs.     

Yep, but I was referring to 94 and 95; had MJ never retired, people think it would have been a slam dunk to win 8. I didn’t think so without a solid center and mental fatigue. We were on fumes at the end of 93 as well.

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