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42 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Part of me thinks this is what Logan wanted to happen.  He goaded Kendall into becoming the killer.

When he was watching it, you would'v expected Logan to throw a tantrum.  Instead, he calmly put his finger to his lips and told everyone to hush and listen.

I think that's likely.  Logan had already made the point he couldn't off himself -- he still knew he needed to be the one to go.

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5 hours ago, Wade said:

Going pretty far down the rabbit hole with this one.  The old man threatened Greg with no one else around.

They were on the veranda at a party, with tons of people around. They were not down in the middle of the crowd or anything but people were walking by them. Maybe not right when he said that. I said it might be, not that is was a thing. I also doubt he was sent in there as a plant from the jump but after he had stared working at the office and drove his grandfather, back in season one. I think that might be where the plan was hatched. They made a point of showing it was a long drive, no music allowed and I doubt that was only to show how cantankerous his GF might be. They established that in other scenes.

It is not a sure thing, unlike how we know Greg is helping Kendall now, but just a thought on a possibility.

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"It's how every story ends.  It's what you are, Jason, a killer.  You always will be."

That whole ending gave me the feels, and in many ways ironic to how Cox's character role ended 15 years ago in the Bourne films.

I agree though, he absolutely setup Kendall to do the job he (Logan) wanted done in the first place.  He accepted he needed to step down but it had to be done in the right manner and Kendall delivered perfectly.

 

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Gotta give it to Alan Ruck for aging well.  He's 10 years to the day, younger than Brian Cox.  Great finale.  At the risk of repeating myself, this went from a stop-gap show last summer to probably the best thing on TV right now.  The writing is approaching Twainian levels. 

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23 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

Part of me thinks this is what Logan wanted to happen.  He goaded Kendall into becoming the killer.

When he was watching it, you would'v expected Logan to throw a tantrum.  Instead, he calmly put his finger to his lips and told everyone to hush and listen.

This.  Logan laid it all out for Shiv but when she wouldn't/couldn't choose between Tom and Ken, he knew she didn't have what it takes.  He pushed every button he had on Ken and when Ken came through, Logan was one proud Papa.

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7 minutes ago, Ben Tobin said:

This.  Logan laid it all out for Shiv but when she wouldn't/couldn't choose between Tom and Ken, he knew she didn't have what it takes.  He pushed every button he had on Ken and when Ken came through, Logan was one proud Papa.

I disagree with this take. I think Logan is interested in self preservation and honestly Tom isn’t high enough for shareholders to give a shit. Kendall leaving made sense or at least Logan could credibly make the case heads were rolling.  I think the smile at the end was in spite of himself Logan respected the power move. 
 

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19 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I disagree with this take. I think Logan is interested in self preservation and honestly Tom isn’t high enough for shareholders to give a shit. Kendall leaving made sense or at least Logan could credibly make the case heads were rolling.  I think the smile at the end was in spite of himself Logan respected the power move. 
 

Agree to disagree.  Seems to me the central plot to the series is who succeeds Logan.  Tom was simply a test for Shiv.  Roman did well enough but couldn't definitively close.  This has always been about Logan training his kids to be ruthless corporate killers.  He just needed to see who learned the lessons best.  Ken killed the King.

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15 minutes ago, Ben Tobin said:

Agree to disagree.  Seems to me the central plot to the series is who succeeds Logan.  Tom was simply a test for Shiv.  Roman did well enough but couldn't definitively close.  This has always been about Logan training his kids to be ruthless corporate killers.  He just needed to see who learned the lessons best.  Ken killed the King.

Agree, and in hindsight think it would've actually been a good ending for the series, not just the season.

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12 hours ago, Lobo said:

Gotta give it to Alan Ruck for aging well.  He's 10 years to the day, younger than Brian Cox.  Great finale.  At the risk of repeating myself, this went from a stop-gap show last summer to probably the best thing on TV right now.  The writing is approaching Twainian levels. 

He was aging well 33 years ago playing an 18 year old Cameron Frye at age 30.

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I get that this show is about who takes over from Logan, but we’re watching different shows if you think Logan wants anything other than maintaining his own power. I don’t think he ever has had genuine intentions to do so. See Kendall, season 1 and Shiv, this season with the Pierce deal. 

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4 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I get that this show is about who takes over from Logan, but we’re watching different shows if you think Logan wants anything other than maintaining his own power. I don’t think he ever has had genuine intentions to do so. See Kendall, season 1 and Shiv, this season with the Pierce deal. 

Everyone, who has built anything meaningful, eventually legacy shops even for only a tiny amount.  

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But Shiv did choose between Kendall and Tom. They showed that her and Logan had a private meeting where she had pitched Kendall as the best choice, and then again later chose Kendall (or "not Tom"). She kind of waffled initially with the "don't make me choose", but she still did make her choice. Agree that Logan likely didn't find it sufficiently cut throat though.

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On 10/14/2019 at 10:54 AM, babysdaddy said:

the grin was absolutely paternal pride.  great season and great finale

I think Shiv, Roman, and Kendall were all in on it.

I could be totally off but I think Shiv saying she couldn't decide was all part of their plan forcing Logan into offing the one person that they wanted all along for him to cut for their plan to work.  And Logan was indeed impressed. 

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It's almost like he wanted it because he usually has Marcia with him at shit like this whispering sweet nothings into his ear.  She has no problem undercutting him and acting a shitheap when they're alone, but she's always willing to sweep the kids under the rug and fuck 'em up to boost his ego.  He wanted her out of the picture.  Her only mention was her shitty taste in yacht decorating.  

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5 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I disagree with this take. I think Logan is interested in self preservation and honestly Tom isn’t high enough for shareholders to give a shit. Kendall leaving made sense or at least Logan could credibly make the case heads were rolling.  I think the smile at the end was in spite of himself Logan respected the power move. 
 

I agree with you 100%.   There was no genius, complicated plan by Logan to have all of these perfect pieces fall into place.   It's as simple as, he's a narcissistic prick who was sacrificing his son to save himself, and Kendall decided to turn the tables.   The "not a killer" thing wasn't even something Logan planned to say; Kendall asked him as an aside and pushed him for that answer. 

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https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a29472259/succession-season-2-finale-ending-logan-smile-explained/

From the mouth of Brian Cox:

“It was inevitable but surprising, in terms of Kendall having been so careful through the whole second season. He’s shied away from his strength, Kendall has. Logan knew in order to sacrifice himself, he would have to do it through his family. He figured that the one chance he had was to make Kendall into the killer. That’s why, at the end, he smiles. He’s achieved what he was after. ‘My son has come of age. He’s now officially a killer.’”

 

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The head writer seems surprised  (though happy) that some people are coming up with theories like that:

"My colleagues and I had a debate after the episode: Is it fair to assume that Logan was genuinely surprised by what Kendall did? Earlier in the episode, one of the shareholders suggests that he should step down. Is it possible he sacrificed Kendall knowing that Kendall might retaliate?

Okay, wow. It’s fun to hear that people are coming up with their own interpretations like that. It feels unseemly, given the work we all do to create [the show], to then impose some binary decisions. I’ll just say, the show is the best version of the show. I’m happy for people to engage with it."

https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/succession-season-2-finale-jesse-armstrong.html

It's clear that Logan was impressed at the end, but I don't think that means that he set up the dominoes to fall as they did.  He didn't even know that Greg had the proof needed to pull it off.   I think he was impressed precisely because he didn't see it coming and it was so strong.   By contrast, he wasn't impressed when Kendall came at him at the end of the last season, even though that was arguably a killer move.

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fantastic episode. A few thoughts.

01) Kendall's face when Naomi tells him that his father only loves him when he is broken.

02) The beach scene with Shiv and Tom... holy hell that was raw.

03) Roman was uncharacteristically measured, mature and seemingly knowledgeable. What's up with that? And his reaction to being named COO was a bit odd?

04) the opening scene is fueling the theory that Logan set the whole Kendall (2nd) betrayal, but i am not convinced. Seems like way too may levers to be pulled there.

 

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29 minutes ago, yoladu said:

fantastic episode. A few thoughts.

01) Kendall's face when Naomi tells him that his father only loves him when he is broken.

02) The beach scene with Shiv and Tom... holy hell that was raw.

03) Roman was uncharacteristically measured, mature and seemingly knowledgeable. What's up with that? And his reaction to being named COO was a bit odd?

04) the opening scene is fueling the theory that Logan set the whole Kendall (2nd) betrayal, but i am not convinced. Seems like way too may levers to be pulled there.

 

I feel like being held hostage, and not knowing if you'll live or die, will humble a fella. 

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On 10/14/2019 at 10:17 PM, Lobo said:

Gotta give it to Alan Ruck for aging well.  He's 10 years to the day, younger than Brian Cox.  Great finale.  At the risk of repeating myself, this went from a stop-gap show last summer to probably the best thing on TV right now.  The writing is approaching Twainian levels. 

Didn't realize Alan Ruck is 63.  No shit.

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There’s a ton of conspiracy theory out there that there was some kind of long game involving Kendall and Shiv and maybe Greg.  I don’t think so.  

I think two distinct things made Kendall sack up and turn on his father. 
 

1. Naomi’s analysis as mentioned above. 
 

2. Hearing his dad call the kid Kendall killed an NRPI.   That statement From Logan is getting short shrift.  It is such a horrible acronym for these victims, something used against them in the Senate hearings, and here you have Logan using it in passing, waiving his hand like it’s nothing.  

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3 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

There’s a ton of conspiracy theory out there that there was some kind of long game involving Kendall and Shiv and maybe Greg.  I don’t think so.  

I think two distinct things made Kendall sack up and turn on his father. 
 

1. Naomi’s analysis as mentioned above. 
 

2. Hearing his dad call the kid Kendall killed an NRPI.   That statement From Logan is getting short shrift.  It is such a horrible acronym for these victims, something used against them in the Senate hearings, and here you have Logan using it in passing, waiving his hand like it’s nothing.  

 

It's not a conspiracy theory it's what a lot of people believe based on what has occurred during the season with Shiv, Kendall and even Roman. And Shiv setting Logan up by not giving him a name (not being the killer he wanted), Kendall being told he was fine but not a killer when Logan said it would be him, Roman being a killer with the hostage situation and that not being enough.......

It might turn out to be nothing but there are a lot of things throughout the season that had those three "teaming up". 

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3 hours ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

It's not a conspiracy theory it's what a lot of people believe based on what has occurred during the season with Shiv, Kendall and even Roman. And Shiv setting Logan up by not giving him a name (not being the killer he wanted), Kendall being told he was fine but not a killer when Logan said it would be him, Roman being a killer with the hostage situation and that not being enough.......

It might turn out to be nothing but there are a lot of things throughout the season that had those three "teaming up". 

Conspiracy was too strong.  Two schools of thought, then - whether this was a planned set up or Kendall decided to do this sometime during the last episode.  

They definitely hint at some collusion over the course of the episodes, but I don't buy Kendall as that good of an actor, at least not in how Jeremy Strong played it (which was excellent).  I'm in the camp that it happened in the episode -  the nonchalant way Logan used NPRI (given how broken up Kendall was about the dead guy, giving him money, etc.), followed by "you're not a killer" pushed him over.  And Greg got looped in on the plane. 

 

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I would like to see more of the flight with Greg and Kendall. I can’t see Greg telling Kendall of the evidence that Kendall didn’t want to hear about from Tom in season 1, and why would Kendall guess that Greg had that found/saved that evidence in a folder labeled “secret.”

The flip would seem more realistic if they had been slowly discussing that over this season. It was a dramatic ending that I liked but zero lead up to it happening. 

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6 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I would like to see more of the flight with Greg and Kendall. I can’t see Greg telling Kendall of the evidence that Kendall didn’t want to hear about from Tom in season 1, and why would Kendall guess that Greg had that found/saved that evidence in a folder labeled “secret.”

The flip would seem more realistic if they had been slowly discussing that over this season. It was a dramatic ending that I liked but zero lead up to it happening. 

Greg had already told Kendall about the information at Shiv's wedding. He told him he had kept it for insurance. 

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Logan was told during his video call early in the episode that the big shareholders wanted him to jump on his own sword. To do so was too much of a sign of weakness for his taste. He essentially gave the sword to Kendall with the hopes that Kendall would do it for him.

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