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Captain Marvel (aka, the appetizer before Infinity War 2)


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14 minutes ago, mdmost said:

It's interesting we can debate which Marvel movies are good or bad. With DC (which I don't even count the Nolan movies as they're a stand alone trilogy), it's a debate about which one of them doesn't actually suck. Wonder Woman? 

Wonder Woman was good.  MoS was decent.  Justice League and BvS are mildly entertaining but pretty bad movies.... there really hasn't been anything else.  We'll see what Aquaman gives this Xmas.  If you're DC, the question is what the fuck should they do with their universe?  I think Aquaman informs them.  If it's a hit, then they'll do a Flash movie and re-set the universe somehow, which would explain the recasting of Superman, Batman, and Cyborg (if he's in it).  Same with the GL Corp.  If it sucks, they should just give WW her trilogy.  Sit out 4-5 years and come up with an actual good plan for an EU and then.... reset everything....

 

 

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So true.  They're bad but they aren't BvS or Justice League bad.  Or the new F4 bad.
This will be shitting money out of every orifice solely because it's the appetizer to the IW2.  And the hype for IW2 is going to be off the charts.
Is going to be? It is ALREADY going ganbusters.
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It's interesting we can debate which Marvel movies are good or bad. With DC (which I don't even count the Nolan movies as they're a stand alone trilogy), it's a debate about which one of them doesn't actually suck. Wonder Woman? 
WW was good but other than a couple of Superman and Batman movies the rest of DC shit sucked ass well except for Adam West and Burt Ward's stuff which kicked much ass.

As far as Marvel stuff, I got hooked by the Helicarrier. Literally, I hadn't paid a whole lot of attention to Marvel except for reading various comix growing up in the sixties and was in a Sams and by the entrance and they had their big ass tvs there and I grabbed a basket and was walking by and here was this thing rising out from under the water
Wtf is that? And it rises out of the water and I'm going holy shit wtf is that? What movie is that? I wanna see this movie. Found out it was the avengers and watched it on demand and got hooked, in my sixties. I go to watch a marvel movie knowing I can get my popcorn and drink and find my seat and sit back and turn my brain off and enjoy the shit out of bad jokes and good shit blowing up and crazy shit that defies physics but who the fuck cares about that or the plot because I am entertained.

Cant wait for marvel and iw2 and gg3.

One thing I do like is that the people plotting the all encompasing storyboard for the mcu are obviously Firesign Theatre fans because they use the same technique that Firesign uses in that there are multiple layers going on and all the movies cross reference each other. Firesign did the same thing with their records which made them very enjoyable expecially if you toked while listening. Oh there's an idea for watching mcu movies. Bet even Howard the Duck would be enjoyable. Well off to the dispensary.
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Wonder Woman was good.  MoS was decent.  Justice League and BvS are mildly entertaining but pretty bad movies.... there really hasn't been anything else.  We'll see what Aquaman gives this Xmas.  If you're DC, the question is what the fuck should they do with their universe?  I think Aquaman informs them.  If it's a hit, then they'll do a Flash movie and re-set the universe somehow, which would explain the recasting of Superman, Batman, and Cyborg (if he's in it).  Same with the GL Corp.  If it sucks, they should just give WW her trilogy.  Sit out 4-5 years and come up with an actual good plan for an EU and then.... reset everything....
 
 
Wonder Woman was meh. I had heard all the hype and was excited to finally watch it when it came on HBO and was very disappointed. It had a specific audience and I was not it. The problem with DC movies is that all but two DC heroes suck and one of them gets boring fast when he's literally invulnerable. Henry Cavill was a very convincing Superman, just poorly written like the rest of their cinematic universe.

I actually think that in the next 20 years or so, Disney will seek to acquire DC from Warners. People want good DC movies, Warner can't give it to them, and eventually the math will work out for them to just hand it off, if not outright then in the way Sony did Spiderman.
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19 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

The problem with DC movies is that all but two DC heroes suck and one of them gets boring fast when he's literally invulnerable.

At this point, other than getting raptured, aren't all superheroes invulnerable? A regular dude with metal wrapped around him survived being churned up in the rotors of a massive helicopter and having a literal moon dropped on top of him. And another dude on steroids can jump out of airplanes with no parachute and survive falling out of a skyscraper onto pavement as long as he lands on his shield.

If they can make Thor--every bit the indestructible alien god that Superman is--a compelling character, someone should be capable of doing the same with Clark Kent.

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Yeah, that argument is absurd if you like Marvel. Especially considering that half the universe just died BUT WAIT WE WILL JUST TURN BACK TIME NEXT MOVIE.

And Wonder Woman was a good movie. It was orders of magnitude better than Ant- Man and Wasp. This is the kind of attitude I was referencing earlier. At this point it's a combination of groupthink and confirmation bias. Everyone says Marvel is great and DC sucks, go to DC movie, find some issue with it, say it sucked, go to Marvel movie, find some formulaic thing you like, say it was great.

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12 hours ago, mdmost said:

It's interesting we can debate which Marvel movies are good or bad. With DC (which I don't even count the Nolan movies as they're a stand alone trilogy), it's a debate about which one of them doesn't actually suck. Wonder Woman? 

i liked wonder woman.

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3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Yeah, that argument is absurd if you like Marvel. Especially considering that half the universe just died BUT WAIT WE WILL JUST TURN BACK TIME NEXT MOVIE.

And Wonder Woman was a good movie. It was orders of magnitude better than Ant- Man and Wasp. This is the kind of attitude I was referencing earlier. At this point it's a combination of groupthink and confirmation bias. Everyone says Marvel is great and DC sucks, go to DC movie, find some issue with it, say it sucked, go to Marvel movie, find some formulaic thing you like, say it was great.

Haven't seen Antman and Wasp, but I don't think every Marvel movie is great. There are probably 3 "great" Marvel movies. The rest are good to bad. And Wonder Woman was okay. It wasn't bad, but it was way over-hyped. That's why I have zero urge to watch Black Panther. It just won't live up to the hype that the media was smothering us with during its run.

As far as superhero vulnerability goes, Superman was ruined for me by the Brandon Routh movie. I mean, he lifted an island made of essentially kryptonite into space. It seems like they ignored the rules of Superman whenever they wanted. I had the Death of Superman comics growing up. That was a bad ass arc. They rushed through it between BvS and JL. They could have ran it out a little longer and did what the comics did and bring out the Superman imitations that were just shells of Superman, but were still interesting.

In the end, we are just arguing at how far our suspension of disbelief goes. I fully recognize that it is silly of me to suspend my disbelief that Superman can exist, but was annoyed by the way he carried that apartment building out of the danger zone because the building would have obviously collapsed and the better choice would have him carry it in the middle on his shoulders instead of carrying it like he was one handing a lunch tray. It's absolutely silly, but its the type of thing that Marvel seems to know how to get away with the DC whiffs on. And I don't care about death. They can die and come back as many times as they want. X-Men did it, Batman did it with several characters, all comics do it. Just keep it interesting. Superman 2 had a pretty good plot device in that he wanted a normal life, ditched  his powers, and had to come back. MCU stashed Hulk away into outer space for a while. Tony is stabbed and stranded on Titan, right now. The writers have been awful at keeping Superman interesting, which is a shameful waste of Henry Cavill as Superman. He was dead for essentially 1/4 of a movie when the comics had such a rich story surrounding his death. Ditch Zach Snyder, get a fresh take on DC in there, and see what happens.

 

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24 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Haven't seen Antman and Wasp, but I don't think every Marvel movie is great. There are probably 3 "great" Marvel movies. The rest are good to bad. And Wonder Woman was okay. It wasn't bad, but it was way over-hyped. That's why I have zero urge to watch Black Panther. It just won't live up to the hype that the media was smothering us with during its run.

As far as superhero vulnerability goes, Superman was ruined for me by the Brandon Routh movie. I mean, he lifted an island made of essentially kryptonite into space. It seems like they ignored the rules of Superman whenever they wanted. I had the Death of Superman comics growing up. That was a bad ass arc. They rushed through it between BvS and JL. They could have ran it out a little longer and did what the comics did and bring out the Superman imitations that were just shells of Superman, but were still interesting.

In the end, we are just arguing at how far our suspension of disbelief goes. I fully recognize that it is silly of me to suspend my disbelief that Superman can exist, but was annoyed by the way he carried that apartment building out of the danger zone because the building would have obviously collapsed and the better choice would have him carry it in the middle on his shoulders instead of carrying it like he was one handing a lunch tray. It's absolutely silly, but its the type of thing that Marvel seems to know how to get away with the DC whiffs on. And I don't care about death. They can die and come back as many times as they want. X-Men did it, Batman did it with several characters, all comics do it. Just keep it interesting. Superman 2 had a pretty good plot device in that he wanted a normal life, ditched  his powers, and had to come back. MCU stashed Hulk away into outer space for a while. Tony is stabbed and stranded on Titan, right now. The writers have been awful at keeping Superman interesting, which is a shameful waste of Henry Cavill as Superman. He was dead for essentially 1/4 of a movie when the comics had such a rich story surrounding his death. Ditch Zach Snyder, get a fresh take on DC in there, and see what happens.

 

IMO the issue with the Cavill/Snyder moves were they transitioned from a sort of origin story to the next story which ends in his death, which isn't a great evolution of the character..... and it's not even a Superman fucking story.  It's a Superman hating story.  BvS wasn't really based on the Death of Superman, although it had a few elements, it was much more influenced by The Dark Knight Returns, which is a Batman story and authored by someone who hated Superman as a character.  So you have a Superman sequel loosely using a story which actually hated the character.  Such a stupid choice.... Snyder was obviously a fanboy but he really didn't understand exactly what he was doing and didn't really understand how to develop the characters or personalities which he liked to play with.... And yea, they pretty much wasted Cavill, who was a decent choice.  The sequel should have been strictly about Superman and if his challenge was the world turning on him for some perceived misdeed orchestrated by Luthor, then so be it.  You could have introduced other characters at the end after the story had been wrapped up..... But DC was so impatient because they had been outmaneuvered by Marvel and playing catch up that they trusted someone with a bad vision and told him to make something comparable in half the time....

 

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31 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

How many DC heroes are there, to create a full universe the way marvel can and has?

shit tons.  problem is that warner doesn't have the patience to go build them up.  they just want to jump to avengers without developing cap, thor, iron man, etc. marvel comics' two biggest characters are probably spiderman and wolverine.  disney didn't  have either.  so they worked with what they had. 

maybe warner's problem is that they have all the DC characters, so they naturally make movies about the biggest two.  and really, do they need to build up superman or batman at this point?  everyone knows them.  aside from comic book nerds, who knew iron man in 2007?

warner should have built up the other characters, then when it came to do justice league, just have superman and batman be there.  no one needs to be told who they are or why they're part of the superhero council. 

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So yeah there's no way this movie fails, even if it's more like Thor 1 or CA, than Winter Soldier or Avengers.

The current climate will just not allow this to be anything less than a critical darling and blockbuster.  It'll get all the hype that WW got(a really good movie, but not nearly as good as the critics and media made it out to be) and BP(without getting the benefit of having a full month of absolutely no competition).

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On 9/19/2018 at 8:05 AM, NOMAAA said:

i dont think that is true.  you will find plenty of posts dogging the bad marvel movies on the old site.  thor, thor 2, iron man 2, iron man 3, civil war..i could go on.  but the good outweighs the bad.  even the bad ones arent all that bad, just not as good as the great ones. 

Civil war was bad? I mean some flaws, but it was pretty damn good.

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On 9/21/2018 at 3:32 PM, Drew said:

So yeah there's no way this movie fails, even if it's more like Thor 1 or CA, than Winter Soldier or Avengers.

The current climate will just not allow this to be anything less than a critical darling and blockbuster.  It'll get all the hype that WW got(a really good movie, but not nearly as good as the critics and media made it out to be) and BP(without getting the benefit of having a full month of absolutely no competition).

what climate are you referencing? It sounds like you've already made a decision on this movie based on nothing at all, what climate are you in?

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Last 1/3 of WW was a CGI-snooze fest. Every big action sequence sucked throughout. With that being said, I could watch Pine and Gadol fish out of eater scenes all day. And WW kicking the shit out of drunk dudes in hand to hand combat.

 

Brie Larson is no Gadol. I expect this one will suck. Agent Carter was pretty good. Just not dumb enough for commercial audiences.

 

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On 9/20/2018 at 7:49 AM, Huckleberry said:


And Wonder Woman was a good movie. It was orders of magnitude better than Ant- Man and Wasp. This is the kind of attitude I was referencing earlier. At this point it's a combination of groupthink and confirmation bias. 

 

I've been plenty critical of Marvel movies in the past, but I found Antman and the Wasp more enjoyable than any DC movie dating back to Nolan's Batman trilogy.  If anything I think WW suffers from groupthink.  People were hyping it as "the good one that's going to save DC's universe" before it was even out.  Then it came out and.....Meh.  

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On 9/20/2018 at 12:46 PM, elfenix said:

shit tons.  problem is that warner doesn't have the patience to go build them up.  they just want to jump to avengers without developing cap, thor, iron man, etc. marvel comics' two biggest characters are probably spiderman and wolverine.  disney didn't  have either.  so they worked with what they had. 

maybe warner's problem is that they have all the DC characters, so they naturally make movies about the biggest two.  and really, do they need to build up superman or batman at this point?  everyone knows them.  aside from comic book nerds, who knew iron man in 2007?

warner should have built up the other characters, then when it came to do justice league, just have superman and batman be there.  no one needs to be told who they are or why they're part of the superhero council. 

All of this is exactly right. 

It's like Warner saw the success of Avengers and was like "ZOMG WE CAN DO THAT TOO" and just (essentially) jumped right to Justice League without doing the leg work that MCU did in the years leading up to that.

 

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I've said it once and I will say it a million times:  There is an amazing DC universe.  As good as anything Marvel has done.  It's animated.  Which, coincidentally, is also true of the Star Wars franchise outside of the original 3.

I thought that Captain Marvel trailer looked fine for something without a lot of plot narrative.  Carol Danvers is a complicated character.

 

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On 9/19/2018 at 12:02 PM, henrygandorf said:

i know i'm in the minority, but i liked (and still enjoy) capt america.  i like that it's a period piece/war movie.

he's nowhere close to my favorite marvel character, but i really enjoy his origin story.  i also think winter solider is hugely overrated, especially by surly/shaggy.

Absolutely agree.  I liked Captain America 1 pretty well the first time I saw it, and it's actually grown on me quite a bit since then.  

Thor 1 (and 2), on the other hand, weren't all that great.

 

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On 9/20/2018 at 6:55 AM, Eastwood said:

Wonder Woman was meh. I had heard all the hype and was excited to finally watch it when it came on HBO and was very disappointed. It had a specific audience and I was not it. The problem with DC movies is that all but two DC heroes suck and one of them gets boring fast when he's literally invulnerable. Henry Cavill was a very convincing Superman, just poorly written like the rest of their cinematic universe.

I actually think that in the next 20 years or so, Disney will seek to acquire DC from Warners. People want good DC movies, Warner can't give it to them, and eventually the math will work out for them to just hand it off, if not outright then in the way Sony did Spiderman.

giphy.gif

I think you are on the right path here, as we are already down to about 6 media conglomerates, Disney now owns Simpsons & Aliens/ Predator, so it's possible...

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On 9/20/2018 at 7:49 AM, Huckleberry said:

Yeah, that argument is absurd if you like Marvel. Especially considering that half the universe just died BUT WAIT WE WILL JUST TURN BACK TIME NEXT MOVIE.

And Wonder Woman was a good movie. It was orders of magnitude better than Ant- Man and Wasp. This is the kind of attitude I was referencing earlier. At this point it's a combination of groupthink and confirmation bias. Everyone says Marvel is great and DC sucks, go to DC movie, find some issue with it, say it sucked, go to Marvel movie, find some formulaic thing you like, say it was great.

This entire paragraph, it is correct sir..!

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On 9/24/2018 at 12:18 PM, oSuJeff97 said:

All of this is exactly right. 

It's like Warner saw the success of Avengers and was like "ZOMG WE CAN DO THAT TOO" and just (essentially) jumped right to Justice League without doing the leg work that MCU did in the years leading up to that.

 

I actually remember the 90's when a few leaked Marvel films looked like trash...

 

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On 9/19/2018 at 9:44 AM, Huckleberry said:

The first Thor was not very good. Not as bad as the second Thor, though.

Marvel has developed the biggest fanboy following in cinematic history, but a lot of that is because they've put out several great films in that franchise. But the below average and bad films just get a pass because of the sheer number they've released. It even extends to critics, in my opinion. Ant-Man and the Wasp was not a very good movie but is 88% at Rotten Tomatoes. It actually has a lower audience score than critics score. It's well-established here that I think Ragnarok was overrated, too, but I recognize I'm mostly alone on that.

And by biggest fanboy following I mean that the fans of the franchise refuse to ever criticize one of the movies. Meanwhile franchises like Star Wars get ripped by their diehard fans for everything from major plot holes down to microscopic editing errors.

Anyway, it's still correct that Marvel usually crushes it on origin stories. I would bet on this one being good, too.

Given the source (mythology, not comics) Thor in general has been very disappointing 

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On 9/19/2018 at 10:44 AM, Huckleberry said:

Ant-Man and the Wasp was not a very good movie but is 88% at Rotten Tomatoes.

wrong. 

and i dig gender equality as much as the next liberal hippy leftist (at least i think i do..No CR), and the trailer seems to imply time jumps or at least something wierd with the chronology, but i'll knock it down a peg or two if it wants us to believe there were two female pilots, one black and one blonde hair blue eyed, shooting it up during the blockbuster era. google says the first female fighter pilot was 1995 so i am curious on when this occurs. granted it's just a trailer, and if that scene happens ...say, after 2010 or during 2018, cool, i can see that as realistic and i'm good. and yes, it's a super hero movie but no, fuck you, the odds of that scene existing back then are slim to none and it subconsciously makes the rest of the trailer seem ...off. well for me at least. i'll give a female marvel a chance; if it rocks, it rocks, gender be damned. and times change but don't unnecessarily lie about what happened. takes me out of the movie experience completely.

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On 9/24/2018 at 4:35 PM, Bateshorn said:

I've said it once and I will say it a million times:  There is an amazing DC universe.  As good as anything Marvel has done.  It's animated.  Which, coincidentally, is also true of the Star Wars franchise outside of the original 3.

I thought that Captain Marvel trailer looked fine for something without a lot of plot narrative.  Carol Danvers is a complicated character.

 

you mean like justice league from the 2000s? damn good show

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6 minutes ago, achooloco said:

wrong. 

and i dig gender equality as much as the next liberal hippy leftist (at least i think i do..No CR), and the trailer seems to imply time jumps or at least something wierd with the chronology, but i'll knock it down a peg or two if it wants us to believe there were two female pilots, one black and one blonde hair blue eyed, shooting it up during the blockbuster era. google says the first female fighter pilot was 1995 so i am curious on when this occurs. granted it's just a trailer, and if that scene happens ...say, after 2010 or during 2018, cool, i can see that as realistic and i'm good. and yes, it's a super hero movie but no, fuck you, the odds of that scene existing back then are slim to none and it subconsciously makes the rest of the trailer seem ...off. well for me at least. i'll give a female marvel a chance; if it rocks, it rocks, gender be damned. and times change but don't unnecessarily lie about what happened. takes me out of the movie experience completely.

there weren't blockbusters in 1995? what?

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On 9/20/2018 at 2:06 AM, MrPhlegm said:

One thing I do like is that the people plotting the all encompasing storyboard for the mcu are obviously Firesign Theatre fans because they use the same technique that Firesign uses in that there are multiple layers going on and all the movies cross reference each other. Firesign did the same thing with their records which made them very enjoyable expecially if you toked while listening. Oh there's an idea for watching mcu movies. Bet even Howard the Duck would be enjoyable. Well off to the dispensary.

Love Firesign Theatre.

Here's a good cross-reference.  Tony Stark tosses out a very obscure throw-away line about the "UFOs over Phoenix" ( aka the Phoenix Lights) in Spidey Homecoming, implying that he knew what they were, and that there was something real there.

Isn't it interesting that those lights coincided with the era of the Captain Marvel movie and could potentially be the Kree-Skrull War?

Is it stretching?  Possibly, but that was a heckuva line for Stark to throw out there.

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On 9/20/2018 at 7:49 AM, Huckleberry said:

Yeah, that argument is absurd if you like Marvel. Especially considering that half the universe just died BUT WAIT WE WILL JUST TURN BACK TIME NEXT MOVIE.

And Wonder Woman was a good movie. It was orders of magnitude better than Ant- Man and Wasp. This is the kind of attitude I was referencing earlier. At this point it's a combination of groupthink and confirmation bias. Everyone says Marvel is great and DC sucks, go to DC movie, find some issue with it, say it sucked, go to Marvel movie, find some formulaic thing you like, say it was great.

The thing about movies like Ant-man and the Wasp, is that Marvel knows they aren't going to do Black Panther, Ragnarok, or Avengers numbers.  I went through most of them again this summer, and even the ones I didn't originally like, there were bits and pieces that were important to the MCU as a whole.

I give Marvel credit for making those movies, because they are the opposite of cash grabs - sure, they are going to please a number of fans, but they weren't really targeted at mainstream audiences, and they aren't meant to hit a billion dollars.

Ant-Man and the Wasp is the perfect example of that.  There is a reason why we have Avengers Infinity War, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Captain Marvel, and the Avengers 4.

Ant-Man is not meant to make a shitload of money (but so far, all Marvel movies have at least made a little profit), and it's a toss-up as to whether Captain Marvel will do massive numbers (next to Doctor Strange, it could be the most unique comic-bookish Marvel movie made).  However, both of these movies are somehow very important to Avengers 4, otherwise Marvel would have stuck other, more popular character movies in between Avengers movies.

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Love Firesign Theatre.

Here's a good cross-reference.  Tony Stark tosses out a very obscure throw-away line about the "UFOs over Phoenix" ( aka the Phoenix Lights) in Spidey Homecoming, implying that he knew what they were, and that there was something real there.

Isn't it interesting that those lights coincided with the era of the Captain Marvel movie and could potentially be the Kree-Skrull War?

Is it stretching?  Possibly, but that was a heckuva line for Stark to throw out there.

That actually makes a ton of sense..!

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12 hours ago, elfenix said:

there weren't blockbusters in 1995? what?

My bad, Meant to say there weren’t two female fighter pilots in the 90s high-fiving it up between missions. would love to be wrong. If there were, I bet they were bad asses, and I’d love to know more. But to me it’s akin to seeing a black PM/president in a WW2 epic. Yeah not a big deal but it would be weird. Would make me think the writers/director weren’t trying very hard/didn’t care or at the very least take me out of the story; I’d be thinking of bs instead of focusing on the craft.

11 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

There’s a ton of movies out there and they are good. Tim Daly is Superman. 

Like the general stuff on Netflix? My homie keeps me clued in but I don’t torrent or have cable so Im only able to watch what’s on Netflix, Hulu or whenever I go chill at his crib.

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